Radio War Nerd #303 — The US Civil War, Part 4: McClellan, Treason & The Battle of Antietam

Great episode. Peppering the series with Gurowski's commentary is fantastic and above all his writing reminds me most of Marx and Engels during this period. Would highly recommend The Civil War in the United States which is a collection of Marx and Engels' letters concerning the war, their articles in the NY Tribune and for the Austrian paper Die Presse, etc. Here's some of what they have to say about McClellan as a preview: Marx, March 3 1862: McClellan and most of the officers of the regular army who got their training at West Point are more or less bound by the esprit de corps to their old comrades in the enemy camp. In their view, the war must be waged in a strictly businesslike fashion, with constant regard to the restoration of the Union on its old basis, and therefore must above all be kept free from revolutionary tendencies. Engels, May 1862: Hero McClellan is in a dead fix. I think this will mark the passing of his spurious glory. He has had another division transferred to him from McDowell, but that won't help him much. All that can save him are the ironclads...If they cleared the rivers to right and left and engaged the flanks and rear with their guns, these ships could once again save this jackass or traitor.

Awesome episode. Stonewall Jackson being purposely fragged by his own men is a theory that makes a lot of sense

Cannot tell you how happy I am that you’re both doing this series, thank you so much!

I was reading the 1619 project and, feeling under qualified to pass judgement on Hannah-Jones' characterization on Lincoln, was thinking it would be awesome to know what biographies of him are any good. Do you guys have recommendations? Also I dunno, might be a cool idea to publish a running list of essential reads that've gone into creating this Civil War Series so we listeners can read them!

Am I just really cynical or does that OSS manual quote sound exactly like how modern politics works?!? (At least in the Netherlands/Europe)

Does anyone have a link to the record of Key's brother drunkenly admitting that McClellan didn't want to win the war?

Your comments about the failure to free the slaves immediately made me think of something: Does it seem reasonable to you to state this: in a serious war, combatants attack each other's resources. As a commodity trader, I have been repeatedly amazed at the unwillingness of adversaries since 1945 to attack resources: cocoa in Ivory Coast, poppies in Afghanistan etc. Maybe that shows that those aren't real wars...just grift.

Too soon.

Updated to post link to William Styple's talk that we referenced. Here it is: https://www.c-span.org/video/?310049-1/general-mcclellan-colonel-key

Love the episode! Antietam was the largest one day battle in U.S. history, but not the largest battle altogether though. If I'm wrong here, definitely let me know, but this has always been my understanding ever since visiting the battlefield in Sharpsburg, MD back in the early 2000's.

"the thing about the South is, it's not so much what is said, but rather, what is *unsaid* that matters"

So glad your pod exists. Appreciate the maps.

Enjoying the episode - is there a link to the lecture mentioned at around 23 minutes (author of McClellan's other story)?

Awesome episode, guys. My takeaway: fuck McClellan!! It's funny, you keep mentioning how the Wikipedia pages on this might be biased. I can read somewhat decently in French, and I noticed that on the French language Wiki page about Jean Bertrand Aristide they talk about NED's role in his overthrow, and in the English language version they do not. Sort of interesting.

These civil war eps could be 4hrs long and I’d still be disappointed when they end.

McClellan was alerted to order 191 on the 13th. He was literally driving the DH Hill out of the South Mountain gaps the very next day, to the point where Lee was going to abandon the campaign once Jackson captured Harper's Ferry. Lee's *own report* cites that the Army of the Potomac moved faster than anticipated. Also there are no troop number dispositions cited in Order 191. Also, Fitz John Porter was ordered to attack a line that did not exist at Second Manassas because Pope believed Jackson to be retreating. He was then swept off the field by Longstreet's entire wing on his flank.

L

The OSS Manual: https://web.archive.org/web/20120927000536/https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/CleanedUOSSSimpleSabotage_sm.pdf

McClellan's letter to Lincoln from his peninsula of exile, as ghost written by Satan's Minion Key reminds me of good ole televangelist Jimmy Swaggert: "Dearly Beloved if'n you don't fill the coffers today, right now, I'm afraid the Lord is gonna call me home!" *Cue phony crying* The swindle always seems to be the same, its just the audeince that shifts over time.

T.M. Key's talks with CSA leadership and other maneuverings remind me so much of the "separate peace" negotiations and operations (Sunrise and Paperclip) that Allen Dulles and Co. were running toward the end of WWII. Especially how the Soviets being informed of the negotiations in Bern - by Averell Harriman himself no less! - caused their trust in US govt. to plummet dramatically and effectively kicked off the "Cold" war. The connected industrial and financial elite within US federal govt. and military assisting their "official" enemies against the clearly stated policy of elected leaders is just astoundingly similar.

Found the link thanks for sharing!!!!!

One of the things your history is doing, that all the best histories of the era do, is highlighting the consistencies in the American ruling class from 1850 through today. The planter class might not be very recognizable, but you make it very clear that many of the northern elites would fit right in with the Acela crowd, and not in a good way. I can't wait for the next (20+?) episodes.

Is this the lecture you referenced by William Styple? Wanted to learn more. Thanks! https://www.c-span.org/video/?310049-1/general-mcclellan-colonel-key

Thanks for bringing attention to obscure but powerful figures like Key. Sounds like a prototype of Allan Dulles.

Each of the American Civil War episodes has been fascinating. Long may the series continue!

Hot take: Stonewall Jackson is overrated as a general officer.

I appreciated this episode because it cuts to the quick, explaining a palpable wariness about Gen Mac that ACW scholars display. McClellan could have invaded Richmond, but… His Peninsular Campaign made no military sense, yet… He was loyal to the Union and its Commander in Chief, although he ran in opposition to Lincoln in ‘64, and his campaign way buoyed by Copperhead Dems and racist mobs.

I hope the beast will get his due in this series

Great episode!

Oh god sorry to hear about hand foot and mouth. That’s awful. Hope he’s feeling better

There a bibliography for this one?

I'm an American who has lived in northern Virginia most of his life, I've visited a lot of museums and Civil War battlefields since childhood, and this podcast series has taught me more about the Civil War in a couple hours than anything you'll get in a lifetime of American schooling or touring historical sites/museums. Honestly it indirectly exposes a huge problem with the American polity: they're hopelessly ignorant and incapable of understanding anything because the education system is ridiculously inadequate. I can't even guess how many times I've heard people say "Oh, it's too complicated to understand foreign countries" and "Oh, it's hopeless to try comprehending whatever country we're at war with today because those people are just animals who kill each other all the time." It's not that hard to get at least a basic idea of what's going on in a country like Afghanistan or Israel (or the United States itself, for that matter) if someone bothers to explain it properly.

The OSS manual quote - amazing

Glad your kid is OK Mark, that's a lot of unnecessary fear for a parent to experience!

I checked patreon this morning, hoping for a new Radio War Nerd episode to go with my morning coffee. Not seeing one, I went about my tasks to an episode of Das Criminal. Hoping against hope, I came back and low and behold there is a new RWN episode, my euphoria knows no bounds