Radio War Nerd #297 — The US Civil War, Part 2: Bleeding Kansas

Are there any books that go in-depth on Canada’s pro-confederacy relationship?

So I just searched "James McPherson Bleeding Kansas" in Google, and the 6th result mentions Potawatomi in its title.

Deja vu? As i was listening to Marks interesting tidbit on Stephen Douglass and his money interests, i look up to see Douglass Park as i round the corner on my way to work on my bike. The beautiful Douglass park was named after Stephen until activist students pressured to change the name to Frederick Douglass in a park surrounded by many slave descendants. But the chicago park district wouldn't budge until BLM protests forced the name change.

Little late to the comment-party but I'd just like to say that I'm absolutely loving this series, and in particular, I'd *really* like to hear whatever John has to say about "US-Civil-War-as-sectional-religious-conflict". You mentioned it a couple times in passing and i was suddenly struck with a burning desire to know absolutely everything about a topic i'd never even heard of before (your podcast has a way of doing that to folks!). In lieu of (or while waiting for) an episode on that, is there any reading anyone can recommend on that topic?

So basically.. Abe Simpson was right? https://youtu.be/Hc0-TpBUOUo

Sweet Jesus. And I'm not an Xtian, even. "The collective insanity of the oligarchy". Just a little bit of history repeating. https://youtu.be/yzLT6_TQmq8 We are so screwed.

Enjoying this series and learning a lot!

Please do more civil war shows 🙏 these are amazing

More of these civil war episodes please! I had no idea how refreshing a take on the civil war without the 'both sides / tragedy' lean could be. Keep them coming!

Also, really happy you're having Eileen back on. "The Good Lord Bird" was great. The vicarious thrill of watching slave owners get comically blown to bits is worth the price of admission.

I remember ta-nehisi coates writing waaay back in 2015 that slavery was the largest share of the economy on the eve of the civil war but Ed Baptists' book on slavery kind of drives it home by showing how slave productivity outpaced industrial productivity for *decades* and might have if the civil war was avoided. We will never know if there was a ceiling to the productivity gains cotton picking made.

Hey guys - just listening to this...I think you're missing something here. The reason the South freaked out whenever someone sexualized slavery was that both sides knew full well that slavery WAS sexual. The South had sex slaves and the North didn't. Imagine the different lifestyles. I reread prewar Southern speeches recently and once you admit the possibility that people were talking about sex, the outright LOVE that Southern men had for slavery becomes obvious and makes sense. I wonder if Daesh guys ever cribbed from Davis and Co. Great podcast as always!

Fabulous episode again guys. Minor comment: please don't underestimate the depth of American historical amnesia. I'll bet fewer than 1% of us know who Charles Sumner was much less that he was savagely beaten. John... 99% of Americans don't know a damn thing about 80% of your content. Your audience are all on the extreme end of the curve.

My vote is also for as many UCW episodes as you feel necessary.

The British support for the confederacy is a bit strange. English nobility had done a lot of land clearings, getting rid of their tenants and replacing the farms by sheep. The southern US cotton must have been a massive cut to the British wool profits, so why help the Confeds?

20 more civil war episodes please!!!!!!!

Like many others I fully support the production of many more RWN civil war episodes if Ames and Brecher feel like it, maybe just intersperse them with episodes on other topics like y'all have been doing already

Really loving the civil war series. I would like to make a request for another Phillipine American war episode. Criminally under represented in American imperial wars. I can't find any good listening about it.

Hey! Great episode so far, I really liked that you touched on the Anglo press/elite's pro-South position, not enough Canadians know it, I only read about it recently. However, not to defend us too strongly, I think it's interesting that among actual Canadian civil war volunteers more than 90% joined with the Union. I think the pro-South position really was based on cruel interests in trade and money like you said, which would explain the class split in some ways. There's also a whole subplot about the idea of annexation of Canada, which Seward loudly supported and which the Brits and Canadian elite were very very scared of, and the story of the Trent crisis, all of which dominated Canadian politics and led pretty directly to Canadian confederation after the war (in some ways as a process to normalize those relations and resume reciprocal trade). There are also all the stories of spies and traitors in the cities, that you touched on. Anyway, great series so far! I'm learning a lot, looking forward to more!

Need this series over plaintive music and black and white photos

I would do dirty things to get as many of these episodes as you guys feel up to making! I believe you wrote once that the Civil War is comfort food for American war nerds and I love being turned onto the interesting stories that gets passed over in popular history like the yellow fever plot you mention here and August Willich.

I'd like to add another vote to extending the series. For someone who grew up in the American public schools, and cares about this stuff, it's therapeutic. Relieved other people find it as maddening. If there's any tragedy to be had, it's that the opportunities to remake things after Union victory were squashed. Like you say, people did know better at the time; things could have been different. These don't feel like echoes to the modern US, it feels like we're still in its wake. Which isn't that crazy since, as discussed on an early episode, the war didn't *really* end until the mid 20th century.

Another banger let's goo

This series has been great and should go long. However many you feel it deserves. If you want to undo all the harms the mainstreamed revisionist, lost cause, both sides narrative… it may take 20 some episodes to straighten that crooked framework.

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Fantastic episode Keep them coming! It is unbelievable how much the civil war has been burried and forgotten (saying this as a dumb american) 2 episodes in and I can already see how the structure of modern America rests on such broken foundation. Also it’s laughable how bad the American counter insurgency tactics were, well i guess they were all for show anyway

Do a 20 part series on the US Civil War. Fucking absolutely do it. This is one of the weird wars in history where technological advances rapidly outpace tactics and still very few useful lessons penetrate the hidebound consciousness of the West Pointers who go on to “win the West.” I think you guys are making an admirable effort to not centralize the US in the podcast’s coverage, but the US Civil War truly is one of the greatest armed engagements in Ares’ fap-book and you’ve proven your non-provincial cred multiple times over. Let’s talk about the Minié ball and the rapid development of rifled munitions. Let’s talk about the development of the first iron clads. Let’s talk about railroad gauges and attempts to standardize ammunition supply trains (across a blockade, for the traitors). Let’s talk about all these things and everything else that laid the groundwork for the glorious horrors of the 20th century

Great as usual

I'd really love to see you guys have Matt Christman on if you keep talking about the civil war, or even this period of American history. He's been creating a series called Hell of Presidents and I find it really interesting.

great series!

Jeez, Quantrill was a complete ass. I'll be subscribed for the next year just for this civil war series!

Let’s gooooooooo!

If you want the nitty-gritty on the actual battles Jeffery the Librarian and War Eagle are killin it on youtube.

Which James McPherson book were you referencing at around the one hour mark? By the way.... a 20 part series on the American Civil War -- yes please. American history is often a SERIOUS weakness of leftish Americans, which is a lot of your listening base. It'd be a great educational opportunity. I know plenty of people on the American left who know more about the Russian Revolution, the Chinese Civil War / Maoism, and so forth than they do about the history of the country they live in. If you don't understand these battles over race, the economy, and the role of the state in America, you'll never even get what politics here is all about let alone be able to change them. It's utterly embarrassing when people in the US know more about Kornilov and Kerensky than John Brown and Jefferson Davis. Not boosting American exceptionalism or saying we shouldn't learn about Russia, but Christ, learn about the place where you actually live and (hopefully) organize first. The political economy of the United States has never, ever ever been similar to that of Russia in 1917. Time to stop telling ourselves fairy tales and deal with reality. (You can tell I've been hanging out with too many Trotskyists lol) On top of that, the American Civil War was an event of pretty profound world-historical significance. It basically remade the American nation-state into something almost completely different, and had pretty profound ramifications for the entire global economy as well. On top of that, this is clearly a topic both hosts but particularly John are well versed in. You did a really great series on Yeltsin's attack on the Duma since this was something you already had a strong interest in, I think playing to your strengths in this case would also go really well. Finally, the sectional divisions and the incompleteness of the Reconstruction project have pretty profound ramifications today. The Southern United States continues its backward ways and holds the entire country back on everything from voter rights to basic infrastructure maintenance (that fight is going on in Congress right now) to providing basic healthcare like vaccines, epidemic control and abortion. Its economic model is still based on a poorly educated, repressed labor force kept in line by religion and ethnic chauvinism and it hurts workers all over the country with its reactionary influence. We're even still debating whether to tear these stupid monuments to Confederate generals down. This really remains a flashpoint to this day and a 20-part series would do it justice.

Yeah I vote civil war into perpetuity