S3E23.5: The Duke of Burgundy

The Duke of Burgundy or The Inconsiderate Sub or Kinky Jeanne Dielman

this is one of my favorite movies also, I signed up to patreon to listen to this episode! loved hearing y'all talk about it. I remember watching an interview with Peter Strickland where he explained that he deliberately chose to set the movie in this kind of outside-of-society world where the usual complicating factors don't exist so that it would make a point about compromise in relationships in general, rather than about kink or sexuality or gender (I'm paraphrasing not very well, but hopefully that makes sense)

the kink carpenter is so john wick

As a companion piece to this can I suggest "love and leashes". An excellent South Korean feminist film all about consent, care and BDSM. It's a little BDSM 101 compared to the Duke though, no human toilets sadly. Very wholesome, very cute the anti-duke of burgandy if you will.

Rather, I feel like the last shots explain exactly what it going on with them, as emphasized by the bug lecture about... i don't remember which moth it was that mutated into a digger for the winter, then came back up in the spring. My take on the relationship is that Cynthia is not even remotely into kink, but loves/is satisfied by Evelyn, but is deathly afraid of losing her. Meanwhile Evelyn loves Cynthia, but is also HORNY. And terminally sub. And so the cycle : in the summer Cynthia tries her best to fulfil Evelyn's kinks even if she doesn't really enjoy any of it, until she breaks down. At which point Evelyn is mortified, and tones her shit down so they can keep being together while doing, well, normal couple shit - loving embraces, picnics, hikes in the fall, snuggles through the winter. Evelyn is bored but she bears it all out of love (and, possibly, fear of losing Cynthia)/ Then Spring comes again and Evelyn grows HOR NY again, and so on. To me it's not a tragedy, it's a modus operandi between two not necessarily compatible persons. Which, ultimately, will never satisfy both of them at the same time ; but as Desproges said, "In love, there's always two people : one's bored, the other sad"

Having watched the movie now, I'm afraid I disagree with the gang's interpretation of it being about a "relationship that's gone on too long", or the tragedy of a cycle being revealed in the last few shots.

I think I'm just too aroace for this one lol but bc it's you three I still enjoyed it

subscribed for this one 😊

I had to watch this in with breaks because Cynthia is too relatable. Especially when she's checking her que card a dozen times because she's really nervous and doesn't want to disappoint Evelyn.

I love when yall put a 'watch the movie before you listen to this' in the podcast. Its appreciated but between putting something on my watchlist and getting round to it theres 1-4 years if ever, i wont remember the spoilies <3

Ngl this was a rough one folks (the movie not the episode)

She Dukens on my Burgundy til I piastri. is that something? I dunno.

who tf is Saylor Twift?

The warning to watch the film first was well placed, i ignored it for Zardoz and regretted it - VERY glad I watched the film first even if it did Make Me Sad!! Fun fact, safe words are for everybody not just subs! Fucking incredible film though

I'm just picturing the American Psycho card scene, but it's doms looking at each other's boots and the polish

I hate it when my sub's contract has a rider

After the discussion in the end I really think the crew should watch predestination. Not because of kink, but because of some other aspects that came up. But you know. Spoilers.

What's the cost to sponsor a mannequin since I'm in the states?

The "What does it say about kink and queerness" question always feels a little off to me. I'm not sure a movie like this necessarily is, or has to be, saying anything about kink. You could trade out the kink and queerness in this movie while still maintaining the relationship dynamic it explores. If Evelyn was a wife with a very "The man is the head of the house" mindset, who was married to a man who liked model trains, the arc of the movie would be something like, Evelyn loving trains more than he does, pushes him to build more elaborate train sets, enter contests and maybe open a business around them so that she can be a part of it. Under the guise of enjoying their shared hobby together, she begins to treat him as the tool that gets her trains, and he grows to resent the obvious fact that she loves trains more than him. That movie would say nothing about model trains. I really like treating movies like this as saying the same nothing about kink. The kink is neither the problem nor the solution. It's the incidental interest of a couple with an unhealthy relationship dynamic. I think part of recognizing and welcoming kink as a normal part of human nature is allowing it to be incidental.

I wish I could make it, or sponsor people to show up live, but I am moving (to a more expensive but worse place, naturally) and July has been depressingly expensive.

Listening to this episode was way more fun than watching the movie being discussed. That said, it's worth watching at least once.

Looks like the link to the tickets is broken by the exclamation point, so you'll have to copy the link and remove the exclamation point to get to the tickets to view the livestream event.

If I lived in the UK I would come to all three evenings, sadly…

Really interesting to listen to this alongside the recent episode from Generation Loss, where they found their way to a lot of stuff that the KJB folks didn't discuss and missed things KJB picked up on purely based on familiarity with kink specifically. In particular they find their ways to totally different interpretations of the butterfly imagery, where I find both very persuasive.

The very rarest of things-a film I have watched! looking forward to hearing your take.

I agree that the best way to experience this film is with as little information as possible, my only context was “from the director of Berberian Sound Studio”.

I would see you live but I live in the good ol US of A

The Sex World reminds me of this concept of the Pornotopia, & of Eco's "How to know if one is inside a pornographic movie" which while less applicable than his 14 point essay, (or fish transport instructions)it is no less iconic Being in bed with multiple people is HELL for me. Too hot too cramped

"The Perils of Unethical Gooning" is my favorite silent-era film serial.

I really, really struggled to get through this movie in a way I haven't had an issue of before, I could get through The Power of the Dog fine, to give an example. I watched the first half or so of it and had to take a break. The dynamic between the two of them is overdone and deliberately stylized, but by god it is just, I don't know, real in an unreal way. Also I can't be the only one who thought the crickets sounded exactly like a magic wand.

let’s FUCKING GO

The fabled pick! So excited to listen to this episode