GGGB vs ORS: Main characters
One of the things that made GGGB unique was the female POV of the story. Most adult VN are written and played by men, so it’s natural the male POV is the prevalent one. When I started GGGB there were a few female POV games out there, but most of them were, how to put this... not too well done.
Writing from a female POV was something that for some reason appealed to me, and I thought I could do a better job than what most people were doing at that moment. It also allowed me to explore some erotic themes from a fresh and cool perspective, and it was just fun. So I took this angle and went with it. Some people had trouble playing from Ashley’s POV, but a lot of you really loved it.
Ashley as a character was rather plain, a fairly simple model that could be easily transformed by your choices. My main contribution was writing her like a coherent character, delving into her inner monologue and elaborating into her feelings and personal relationships. It was fun seeing how this simple girl could change, fight for what she believed in or fall prey to lust. I know most people expected me to keep doing the same when GGGB was finished and ORS was announced, but I knew I didn’t want to repeat myself. It’s important for me to keep things interesting and fun for myself, and I knew I needed to go beyond what Ashley provided as a main character.
The choice of going with a double protagonist was a bold and risky one, but it’s one I stand by. Lena is true to GGGB spirit, giving the player a female POV similar to Ashley’s, but introducing a male POV was something I had been wanting to do for quite a while. Dave, Eric and Jack were NPCs I really enjoyed writing, and often I imagines the story from their perspective. Ian would allow me to create just that, and intertwining his POV with Lena’s also allowed me to explore branching storyline and choice mechanics in a new way I hadn’t seen done before. It was a challenge that motivated me and opened up a lot of new door for me and for the player. But that wasn’t the only change from GGGB.
Some people have said that Ashley felt like a blank slate in which the player could insert his particular vision, compared to Lena and Ian, which feel like their own person, with their own and particular personality and past. That’s not exactly true, since Ashley also has a certain personality and a past. But it’s true Lena and Ian have a lot more entity as characters than her. That’s because they have scars. You could say what builds a character (and what builds our own personalities) are wounds. Let’s look at Harry Potter, for lack of a better example: he carries the literal wound that defines his character on his forehead. Jon Snow is a bastard, Naruto hosts a cursed beast inside him, etc. etc... A good character has a wound that defines him.
Ashley had a background, but no real wounds: those happened during the game and shaped her (Eric leaving, her family falling apart, etc). On the other hand, Lena and Ian start the game heavily defined by a recent wound that ties into their character and their motivations. This is what make them feel more interesting and “real” as characters, and when I talk about ORS being a more focused and nuanced game experience I’m talking about things like these.
I know many of you are on the fence about the new double protagonist approach, but I hope you can enjoy the new angle it provides. Did you like Ashley or Lena more? And do you enjoy having a GGGB-like experience but with a male POV in Ian? I surely enjoy writing it, and playing around with his relationships, especially Cindy's ;)!
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Comments (24)
the ORS is sorely missed by Arthur and the bandits. And there is a great lack of forced options where the player has no choice. I became a patron to say this.
I think having two protagonists adds an interesting layer of complexity, as well as a new perspective - not just making decisions but actually observing the results from the outside. It's... unusual, but really well done, so I'm all in favour of the attempt. I really liked both Ashley and Lena at the start of their respective stories, but Ashley risked becoming a character from the Sims - accessorize, colorize, pick any career, build relationship stats with quasi-random strangers, and hope they don't spontaneously combust. Honestly I'm not entirely sure Lena's wounds are entirely clear yet, because her past with Axel is too shrouded in mystery. Her mother has been absolutely priceless as a supporting character, though :p (Maybe that's her main wound? She wouldn't be the first.) Ian's wound is a little clearer in terms of his character. It feels like we have to work much harder than with the typical male protagonist to get him to open up and overcome his lack of confidence. Not as hard as Perry, mind you, but it really adds up to define who Ian is right now. I love the Ian + Cindy story so far, by the way; can't wait to see what you have in store for us there :)
Cindy and Ian is very interesting, all in all I miss some drama, because after all the story develops, but I miss some emotional consequences. And I miss some strong feelings of the MC´s, leading at some point the story, for the MC´s in a certain direction no matter whats happening or which other character is grafting... Depending on the choices made earlier.
I was not a fan of the dual POV of ORS and having played so far I still am not. Ian is tolerable. He is not bad, but I am really much less interested in his journey compared to Lena's. The girls he interacts with make his side of the coin come alive, especially Cindy as I can identify with her most, but all in all, I think there is so few games that write a female protagonist well, that I am a little sad for the time spent on him.
My 2 cents: I love female protag games where I can guide the character to the depth of perversion. GGGB was great in this regards. I dont enjoy lesbian path as much or in order for me to enjoy different female characters and models I prefer to have male protag Thus for me this game is head and shoulders above anything I have played before. Every month I yearn for new chapter!!
The only argument that I have against having 2 protagonists is that it breaks immersion. You are doing great with this game even though I have this opinion. Immersion isn't necessary for a great game but if I were to be as talented as you are I would follow one of the protagonists and simply allow major choices to be made by the player in regards to the other protagonist, essentially creating a main protagonist and a secondary protagonist. Of course this is just because I contribute a lot of my enjoyment to these games to the immersion element and to me a hard switch to another character breaks it. Again, not necessary for a great game as you are already proving with this one.
Is the abundance of male oriented novels because of the "adult" material? I always had the impression it was the other way around, but I think I might have looked more into romance games than adult ones.
I prefer Lena and Ian over Ashley. Ash is a good character, but the other two are more fleshed out and thought of. Lena and Ian also have more personality than Ashley, and I like that they have backstories that affect the current events of the game.
Really like what you've been doing, especially like having the duel storylines. The only thing that I feel has been missing from ORS has been the customization (almost) that was in GGGB. Ashley could be taken down a lot of extreme paths and in some ways allow you to customize her look by doing so. Not sure how exactly you could get that to work here like maybe if you work out a lot as Ian you could get a jacked body type eventually :D . Regardless keep up the good work :)
I think we're still getting there. Ivy is already working her magic to encourage Lena. ;) Seeing Ash change (or not) and being able to make the choices yourself was one of the things that made GGGB stand out to me. Although I would be lying if I said that me liking tattoos didn't play a part in that. ;)
This has probably been said better by others already, but I tend to see Ian's story less as an individual path, but more as a means to an end. I still get to see his life develop, but on its own, I'm less interested in what happens to him, than in what way his dialogue affects the women around him, Lena in particular. The ability to heavily customise Ashley in GGGB is what most appealed to me, and what I'm hoping to see much more of in ORS. If Ian's decisions also impact the other women in the story as it would have affected Ashley, then maybe that would garner more interest in his path. TLDR; Lena has the most appeal to me, as that is the path that most appealed to me in GGGB, so Ian's path is more of an enhancement to Lena's, if that makes sense. She will be making decisions based not just on her own, but as impacted by Ian's input
I like both for different reasons, like some people mentioned we could heavily shape Ashley into whatever we wanted, the good girl, the bad girl or somewhere in between. While so far Ian and Lena are characters that for the most part already have a shape to them so to say. But I love both of them! It is good to see a more well done female perspective, as you mentioned the majority of the market aren't... well lets just say focused lol
I know exactly what you mean by the adult games being flooded with male POV I'm a male my self but find my self more drawn to the female POV then anything and it's hard to find a good female POV adult game and I love that there is no stupid point grinding ugh I swear I instantly uninstall any games with point grinding it's just a waste of time, I took my good old time with GGGB and Loved every second of it and still go back and play it again every now and then, I'm still behind in ORS need that android port downloading on the family computer...eh not a good idea 😑
Always at first I try to search game by female protagonist tag, cause I really love it, when you can do your choose and watch what will be next, but in ORS 2 protagonist complement each other and the same time their history, wish you all the best! :)
(arrgh! Having trouble posting this comment. Hopefully it doesn't show up like 10 times randomly) As to the male POV topic, I both like and don’t like it as implemented. I like it in the sense that Ian can become a more developed character with this approach, but that’s only interesting to me in the sense that it makes the dynamic between him and Lena more nuanced. The main reason I don’t like it is that first in almost all cases male protagonists are of less interest to me and second I mostly prefer a more focused experience In general. As such when Ian has stuff going on that isn’t relevant to Lena it quickly starts feeling like going through the motions to me. Annoying thoughts about how it could have been more scenes and development for Lena and her various potential paths poke around in my head. In a previous post with similar discussions I mentioned that I might have liked it better if Ian was a POV character, but a supporting one. And the more I think about the more that’s definitely true for me. So a GGGB-like game with male character POV sections so that the narrative isn’t completely chained to one character’s perspective? Great! But one where the male POV is foundational? Not ideal. In the end I suppose this means, in the case of a game like ORS, I prefer that any male POV characters existed mostly as a feature to further develop the context and nuance of the protagonist’s story (in part by having more depth themselves), and not as a whole protagonist themselves with all of their own stuff going on. That’s my two cents anyway. And def not trying to neg with any of this ofc. In the end ORS is still a great experience that’s made a fan of me.
I was unsure about the dual protagonist POV since I had bad experiences playing games like this, but ORS was a pleasant surprise. I was afraid that Ian would be a plain character that only existed for the sake of NTR, but it's not the case. Sure, I'll definitely have a path he gets cheated on by whatever girlfriends he ends up with, but I also plan to try other different paths. The same thing can be said for Lena. Unlike Ashley, I won't explore only 1 path (a bad route). In GGGB, I got the feeling that only the bad route was worth it. The good route didn't feel as rewarding and with the same amount of content.
It's so difficult for me to say who do I like more. Honestly, I like both of them for the same AND for different reasons. Just as Ashley gave me the liberty to play with different kinds of characters, despite the almost commom beginning, Lena gives me a more solid moral to play with, and so a sense of responsability to mantain a character true to herself. Don't know if I am speaking too soon, since I played GGGB a lot, and am playing a single storyline on ORS, since I like to be completly immerse the first time I play, but so long I think both characters are great and I have a great time playing with them. About the male POV, I love it just as much, plus the traditional inclination to empathise because my gender (male). Again, I love your work, and love your characters, playable or not, even the ones I moraly despise. I am eager to see the next chapter. Until the next time (post), hope you be well! :)
Ashely was a nice character for sure and a good foundation for GGGB, but I definitely prefer Lena.
I had six sisters living in the house with me when I was a teenager. GGGB felt like I could roleplay most of them using its tools. And yes, one of them took the (80s/90s version of) the gangsta route.
What drew me in was primarily that the choices mattered, and that the female POV wasn't written by an alien (or so it seems in most other adult games with a female protagonist). I don't think that a female POV is inherently better, but playing corruption themed games as a male protagonist makes me feel like Jim Jones. When the corruption occurs from the female POV, the corruption feels voluntary, which makes it so much better, IMO. The protagonists in ORS are more developed because they all have histories, but that doesn't have to mean blank slate protagonists are bad. When the protagonist is more or less blank it can feel a bit more like you're playing as yourself, and sometimes that's a good thing, at least in games. So far, I prefer playing as Lena in ORS, but Ian's part isn't bad by any means. Personally, Ian's part feels mopey, because playing as a wannabe writer doing a job he hates takes me back to Dostoyevsky. Lena is a bit more titillating since the temptation of turning that sweet girl into a debauched stripper is there from the get-go, but it's just now that Ian's Bloodsport/Karate Kid offer appeared, which gives an interesting twist to his fate. Of course, if I had to choose, I'd pick another game with a female protagonist. Still, a big part in that choice is that there is almost no other developer who writes credible female protagonists, while the male protagonist is seen everywhere. So the (well written) female protagonist is a bit niche, sadly.
Personally, I love that both Ian and Lena have not only their struggles and wounds but aspirations and life goals as well. In GGGB, it didn't really feel like Ashley had any major plans, instead choosing to go with the flow, wherever it might bring her (though, admittedly, I was the same in her age). Ian wants to be a successful writer, Lena wants to be a songwriter / professional model. Whether they succeed in that or let temptations lead them astray... That gives them new layers of personality as well as provides many interesting opportunities for the story.
I’ve enjoyed ORS just as much as GGGB. I don’t really see any negatives, my only hope is that Ian or Lena will be able to go down as dark or perverse route as Ash did :)
Yep, I like Ian's story and ORS' double approach is better.
Not sure how wide spread this view is, but: because I already am a man, playing one is quite boring. I feel drawn to anything unusual, so when a character is kind of like me, I don't need to role play that.