GGGB vs ORS: Gameplay

So what determines whether Jessica from GGGB is good or bad in ORS? Your last GGGB save or is there a dialogue choice I’m missing?

TL/DR both games are good, but for different reasons, once you have finished with ORS (although hopefully that is some considerable way off), I certainly wouldn’t object to another “open” game like GGGB. GGGB is much more “open” and you are freer to shape the character of Ashley, but I think that is largely because she is a blank slate to write on, still being in education and living at home, whereas Ian and Lena have already moved out which is something you don’t do in GGGB until much later. Ian/Lena also have more backstory with their friends and previous lovers, and in GGGB it is easier to blow off people you don’t want to care about. In ORS you are fairly heavily pushed towards getting Ian/Lena together, which I entirely approve of, but if you don’t want to pursue Lena you have to push away from her multiple times before Ian decides that there isn’t anything there for him. In ORS I particularly like is that some characters just don’t like each other, Louise/Stan, Louise/Ivy, Ian/Minerva. It would have been such a horrible cliché to have a path where Ian pisses off Minerva, and she summons him to her office and “forces” him to have sex with her, it is refreshing to just have someone hate someone else, and there isn’t much you can do beyond avoid invoking their wrath. That said it could be interesting if Minerva suddenly becomes interested in Ian should he make the right choices, and become successful, particularly if she is just using her female wiles to butter him up, and still can’t stand him. Mechanically ORS is much deeper than GGGB as that only has a simple good/bad tracker, and by and large, there don’t seem to be that many decisions which hinge on your choice (not that they don’t exist, just that there seem to be fewer of them), plus you can reverse direction fairly easily if you decide to change your outlook. In ORS I like the fact if you push certain attributes, it can lead to very different outcomes, like when you sketch Lena in the Nude, it can be a “bad” piece of art, or it can be decent (although I only ever achieved this on a cheat run through), I also liked that some conversations are opened up if you have the right attributes, such as being able to talk about Nietzsche with Mr. Ward, rather than him bringing it up. Graphically I much prefer the artwork of ORS to GGGB, I kind of had the misfortune of discovering ORS before GGGB, so when I came to play GGGB I kind of had to force myself through the first bit before the story began to intrigue me. That said once I looked past the graphics and became enmeshed in the story I really didn’t mind. I do like the body alteration you can do in GGGB, in ORS the only option I have seen so far is to get a navel piecing for Lena, I hope there will be more options going forward, although I appreciate that it must add significantly to the amount of art work required, it still is a very nice touch. One thing about GGGB that did slightly annoyed me, what that on the time when I pursed a “goody two shoes” path with Ashley, was that when Eric reappeared, I was made to feel bad for cheating on him, when obviously from my perspective I hadn’t, there was every reason to believe him to be dead, and while I can see that some people might think Ashley moved on with undue haste rather than grieving him, I don’t really see how anyone could claim faithlessness. Not a big deal really, but worth mentioning. Keep up the good work and looking forward to chapter 6.

In GGGB one of the things that I loved it was how the main character can affect their friends and family, like Eva to change at the point to convert itself a total slut or Jessica to change the lifestyle to a new one, even her dad until the point to get a better ending and overbecome his failled marriage. I always thiking how a person can make a game, their characters, give a solid background, develop a story to the point inmerse into it, you are in correct path, just continue and try to do your best.

I just played ORS for the first time recently, but I've been a backer since GGGB. I really like ORS, and I can tell it's more "mature," but so far, I prefer GGGB. I felt like GGGB was more sexy and raunchy. ORS, whilst still erotic, feels closer to a tamer novel you can buy at the bookstore. Which isn't bad, necessarily -- I really found myself getting into the story for ORS, and caring about the characters more than GGGB. But as far as sheer sexiness, I do prefer GGGB, and that's what I'm coming here for, after all. I do wonder if the characters in ORS will be able to become as slutty as Ash from GGGB, or if that's not possible for such a mature story. Oh, and btw, when ORS first came out, I commented on the backgrounds, and how I preferred GGGB's backgrounds more. But after playing ORS, I've come to see how beautiful the art is, and prefer ORS art over GGGB. Ultimately, I don't think it's possible for you to put out a bad product, Eva. Everything you make is good, it's just a matter of preference, and I prefer the sexiness of GGGB, myself.

They are really hard to compare, unfair even! GGGB holds a special place in my heart. It felt empowering for me and my life at the time and stage I was at. Objectively, they are very different games. Where GGGB is a 'freer' game, ORS is much more linear and consequently a deeper more caring game. I love both implementations of your vision, but GGGB is the one I will replay 3 years from now.

In terms of actual gameplay I think we have to wait and see how it turns out, as someone above said. I like the added complexity so far but it's the end product that will determine the success of it. I will say ORS is the better game so far for me subjectively, I connect to the characters more than I did to Ashley. GGGB was a very well designed game and the amount of branching in it was insane and glorious to see but I didn't personally feel much of a personal connection to Ashley, both Ian and Lena clicked with me right away in a way that Ashley did not. The writing is also excellent which is the main way I judge games of this sort, I'm more on the "novel" side of the term "visual novel" I guess. GGGB had very good writing as well, especially given that it was your first game, but you have improved a lot since then and it shows in ORS.

I haven't played any of ORS yet

Will you get to by clothes and tattoos in Ors like in gggb

This is the best development post I have read. Guess because I’m a writer and a reading nut too.

I enjoyed having the cheat mode in latest release. It was cool to see more choices available by automatically having higher scores in Charisma, Lust, etc. and it didn't feel like i was cheating. Some situations might prompt me to give a lustier or more charismatic answer regardless of prior behavior. At the same time, I did like having to work for the "Agenda" points, as I'm able to manipulate the relationships. It remains to be seen how the agenda meter will pay off in the end, but it's a really cool concept to live in a world you create by the decisions you make that impact your relationships with others. Not that GGGB didn't have that, but in ORS its more tangible.

I haven't played ORS yet but I was obsessed with GGGB. I played two different routes I did the bad route which got pretty damn dark later on. I kept wondering when it was going to fall apart on Ashley. I had to quit the bad one cause it was too much. I really like Ashley as a character. So I started the good route with Dave and her marrying at the end was much more fulfilling. I agree GGGB was a lot like RDR and Mass Effect. I watched everything I did to get a good ending.

Our Red String is the better game so far, but that's a lot due to the fact that it's your second game with lessons learned from your first. ORS has more complex mechanics and a bit more complex story, but that doesn't make it inherently better. Nothing wrong with a simple approach, it's just different. A historical period drama is usually more complex than an action movie, but that doesn't mean that Amadeus is better (or worse) than Terminator 2, for example.

Huh, that's weird. Guess my comment was deleted.

Currently (though I expect that to change quickly as we have varied diverging paths in ORS): GGGB for content and depth; ORS for the system, art and characters.

Having written some games, a more complex mechanic can only be judged in terms of outcome. If the outcomes are mediated by the mechanic, it may in fact offer less choice for more arithmetic, as it were. Writing combat systems can be like this: it may be that a simple metric like "strength" is easier to work with for the players than something that is far more complicated. GGGB was very understandable to the player. Making things less clear probably doesn't help, in any event.

GGGB was a pretty good game, but you can see ORS is a more polished game, and I like better the points system on it, although It would be nice to be able to check out those numbers somewhere.

Do you think ORS improves on the gameplay compared to GGGB? -Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GGGB for me is right now one of best games, because the system of choices have real consencuenses in the story, even how the protagonist can change their relationship with differents characters like Eva, o her boyfriend, father, mother, etc, I really like it. In ORS I can tell you follow the same path but better obviously, just continue what you are doing a good game.

I like both but have to go with ORS. It feels like lessons learned(from GGGB) were used to guide its development. I also like being able to see how making a choice for one character can have indirect consequences for the other character's path.

I kinda prefer GGGB right now. Is ORS more mature and in depth? sure. it'll be awesome when it's completed. but it's also much more of a "slow burn" Ashley could go form good to nasty VERY quickly in the other game, and by the end..WHOOoboy. It's...the diffrence between having a top notch meal in several courses, but only being able to have the appitizer, vs having a burger and fries, that, while not as fancy, is still quite delicious..and complete. So the older game has an advantage right now. Also, i hope that ORS doesn't "tone down" the porn aspect too much...it IS a game after all, and seeing how far you can go is part of the fun!!

I must say I enjoy both games (GGGB and ORS). But in ORS the progression feels more organic and I do not always see the consequences of my decision immediately which I like. I will point out that like Julian Harper I also had misunderstood the icon after the choice as meaning that choosing this option will raise that specific attribute/skill and not - You may choose this option because of your current level in said attribute/skill. With that said I find ORS a better game - gameplay wise. And yes, I know gameplay is hard to define it is mostly a subjective feeling.

I think you totally succeeded in your goal for GGGB, trimming all the unwanted grinding, etc. to the point where it is my all time favorite game. I like the more complicated mechanics of ORS, but I think it needs to develop a bit more.

I also prefer the more “complicated” mechanics, but more than probably because we’re still in an early stage of development I also have the impression that more juice could be extracted from the stats system. To throw an old school D&D analogy a wizard with high intelligence can learn more spells and a warrior with high constitution has more hp. Their stats impact the gameplay in an undisputable way and in fact individualize the characters. I’m not saying ORS should be a full blown RPG, but having more stats by itself may not be really relevant if they’re “only” (to be fair, that’s not exactly the case in ORS) used to allow you to say a witty comeback here and there or let you pursue that DJ during a girls night out. As of now an Ian/Lena that has reached the current max for any given stat still feels and plays very similar to one that hasn’t, at least to me. How to fully develop that is tricky (and, again, more than probably something that can’t and shouldn’t be done in just 5 updates), but the possibilities are endless: Ian martial arts training points in that direction for example, but athletics can also be used during sex scenes (I think it has already been done at least one time), a character with low wits (linked to awareness as per in-game description) may not realize something important in a place or a situation, a high charisma one should be the center of attention socially almost by default while a lower one would be more ignored… and so on. The danger of that is it can over-complicate not only development but also gameplay as Koskesh has pointed out but… well, as I said, it’s tricky, heh.

Honestly, I don’t think it’s an easy question to answer. To some extent, I liked the simple approach of GGGB; shaping your character’s fate through choices was straightforward, and the binary point system allowed for large flexibility, while also maintaining a clear-to-see impact on the game. In ORS, we are yet to see exactly what the more nuanced stat system will entail. On paper, I can’t help but think that there is a risk that it will evolve into some degree of grinding, whereby you must select certain choices to boost certain stats. GGGB was very lax in this regard; sacrificing a good/bad point here and there wasn’t that big of a deal, and you could easily maintain your heading. In ORS, though, I’ve found myself having to calculate the choices I need to make to a much greater extent. For example, fulfillment of Ian’s first scene with Alison requires either two lust, or two wits and charisma, something I had to keep in mind when I made all the previous choices. I have also reflected upon how the more nuanced stat system can create rather steep requirements as we move along. Will we, later down the line, need something like seven charisma, six athletics and eight lust to get a certain scene? At that point, you will be forced to play the game with a clear purpose right from the get-go, carefully making each choice so that you meet the eventual requirements. Of course, I am not suggesting that something such as this will happen, but it shows that you must tread cautiously as to not end up with a game that become all about getting the right stats. There is nothing worse than playing through hours and hours of a game, only to realize that the choice you made all the way back in episode two actually needed to be something else. This, of course, is a matter of opportunity costs. Because all of the stat affecting choices in GGGB only impacted good and bad points, one choice wouldn’t be all too deciding. In ORS, making one choice means not only that you don’t choose several other things, but it might also be the difference between getting a stat increase two choices later, or not. This means you must consider the way you play much more, something some will find engaging, and others will find grinding-like. I think the way to go about these potential risks is a “different means to an end”-approach. Ian’s first scene with Alison is actually a fairly good example of this; you can get it either by having a lustful, or a charming and intelligent character. This way, you can get all the benefits of several different stats, while also avoiding the risks; characters will be more nuanced, but there will also be a great deal of freedom, as scenes can be achieved several different ways. On another note, something that I really appreciate with the gameplay in ORS compared to GGGB are what I believe you referred to as narrative minigames. The pool games are a good example, where you can win or lose, but do so through the choices you make. In my opinion, this enhances the experience and makes you more involved. I also enjoy that the game is more alive; if you neglect Alison as Ian, she will go to Jeremy instead. These are the types of effects I really enjoy, where your overall choices will be what is most crucial. So, here I am again, making a stupidly long post that no one will be bothered to read. I think the system allows for more nuance, but that there are also certain precautions you need to take, as to not make it a stat-grinding feast. Overall, though, I trust your judgement, and I am sure you will make excellent decisions on exactly how to incorporate the system in the best way possible!

good girl gone bad is far better game

I prefer the more complicated structure. People make both good and bad choices, and I felt the GOOD/BAD system could prevent you from changing directions in the middle of the game, at least efficiently. I also never cared for the fact that a non-slutty Ashley was somehow good, and a slutty Ashley was bad. I think the multiple stats in ORS are going to help break this 'limit' and allow the player to more effectively RP their character by giving the MCs more depth.

So far I'm loving ORS, and looking at it's potential, compared to GGGB, I can see it going well beyond what GGGB did. My only comment/complaint is that while the Good/Bad stats in GGGB were quite simplified you at least had a good idea on where Ash was heading. So far I haven't seen the impact of the various stats within ORS, other than spending the odd Will point. What do the stats give you, choices? Do they open up new branches? For me, it's not very clear what they mean, or do, other than Lust.