PATRON TIER LIST TNG S5E2

Wonderful episode, this is what Star Trek is all about. and my first one as a Patreon member here :)

Ah yes, the picardigan

S-tier. This is the episode I use to introduce people to TNG. Everyone in the core cast gets a moment to shine, it has a (short) space battle and shows Picard at his best. Ultimately, however, the story of this episode is about reaching out and communication, its about trying to find common ground and THAT is what Star Trek is all about.

I love this one, to me this is how most first contacts go, the universal translator is something i find difficult to suspend my belief about.

This is S-Tier for me and one of my top 5 episodes in the series. Which you've now seen is rarified air. It shows how important communication is. And if it's possible to do even with an alien species, there's no excuse for not doing it with each other who often even speak the same language here on earth.

I have to go A tier with this one. Riker and his team figured out the way the Tamarians communicate but did nothing with it. No attempt to even demonstrate that they get the concept even though they don't know the context. Instead Riker resorts to attacking the Tamarian ship. Also, he could have ordered Worf to land the shuttle, find Picard and protect him, but instead orders him back to the ship. Or he could have sent him in another shuttle to the other side of the planet to enter the atmosphere out of range of the Tamarian ship. Just little plot holes that could have been fixed if the Tamarian's energy scattering beam was itself hazardous to navigation. Solid A tier, would be an S tier if the rest of the crew would have been more useful or met with challenges that couldn't easily be solved by just thinking a little harder.

B-Tier, (the aliens that can only speak in memes from Planet Brain Rot) It's a fine episode with a neat concept, but the Fan Base is convinced it's a top 5 episode for the entire franchise, & it just doesn't click with me like that. Also how did their language come about if all they can speak in is references to stories

Ok, this is one of my 2 favorite episodes of the series. This and another one later this season are my "go to" episodes to show the awesomeness of Trek

I'd like this episode a lot more if they spent a lot less of it just spouting phrases at each other knowing the other doesnt understand them and spend more trying to communicate non verbally like with body language or drawings. It's eventually how they communicate at the end of that guy's death but it's a very obvious solution as you frustratingly wait to happen as they just repeat scenes of "I'll just repeat what I said last time even though last time they didnt understand me"

Love the jacket, One of the best episodes of the entire series Darmok at Antarctica when his balls froze! Great day to choose to stay in and watch TV

A perfect encapsulation of the phrase, “We stand on the shoulder of giants.” Someone along the way had to have the courage and temerity to do something for the first time that would make things better for everyone else after them. Sometimes risking it all, as Dathon did. (Side note, Dathon was played by Paul Winfield, who was Captain Terrell in Wrath of Khan. Basically Star Trek royalty for those two powerhouse roles.)

This is like when Kirk had to fight the Gorn. Only Picard has to fight something much, much worse: experimental theater!

DARMOK is a fantastic episode. A language of metaphors? Incredible story opportunity. Definitely an S

Trek predicted the future - Cell phones, the Hitler planet, and communicating entirely in memes. Skibidi brainrot, dog in house fire

Really awesome to see Paul Winfield back from Star Trek 2 in this episode.

He who was my companion, through adventure, and hardship...is gone forever.

This was an S on my first watch, but has dropped to an A over time. There are many episodes that require a lack of audience knowledge to truly appreciate. But, there are other such episodes in TNG that remain more enjoyable on rewatch. I’m trying hard not to make this season almost all S, so I have to make some cuts somewhere.

This episode would be an A on it's own, imo. But the memes it's generated elevates it to an S.

An all-time great Trek episode. I still see so many "Shaka, when the Walls Fell" comments when fans call out some failure or bad idea in the modern version of the franchise.

If I said "Shaka, when the walls fell" to someone who hasn't seen this episode, they would be totally confused, but we all would know exactly what I'm referring to. It's that simple. Don't overthink it. Besides, there's far more issues with universal translation in other episodes that are glossed over. Like when Riker's 'metal pin' is missimg but can fluently speak American English with the Malcorians.

Solid A tier for me. The Enterprise to the rescue at the last second seemed a bit too trite. Great acting and very memorable phrases from this one!

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra" is a phrase that has stuck with me all of these years. Here's a new one: "Darmalex and Joshlad at Clevelanda."

It’s an S-tier for me but I always feel a little sorry for the Beast. Here he is, trying to live his semi-visible life and two jerks barge into his home to shank him as part of a team building exercise ;)

This episode was fantastic! So far a great start to this season!

Just want to give my thoughts on the inevitable complaints about the plausibility of the Tamarian language, specifically the argument that it would be impossible to communicate the meanings of the metaphors to children without a base language. I think the episode subtly addresses this- we see Picard look at Dathon’s notepad which appears to be a bunch of scribbles. However at the end the first officer looks at the pad and immediately says “Picard and Dathon at El Adrel.” To me this is showing that the Tamarians clearly have a written language that they can look at and immediately process a new story into their lexicon. And without understanding the basic idea that they communicate via metaphors, Starfleet would never be able to comprehend the written language. Maybe that’s mostly head-canon but I thought it was a reasonable assumption given what the episode shows us.

An interesting thing I saw on YouTube recently was two guys speaking English, but using German syntaxes was very difficult to understand. It reminded me of this episode.

Sometimes thing are so alien that your fantastic technology can't break though. S-tier episode of Star Trek saying we still have a lot to learn.

This is not a fan favorite but trek fans will spout lines from this episode in real life. It stays with you. I loved it because it was different, it developed Picard, and because I had read some of Gilgamesh high school and got the reference. Communicating ideas through story… isn’t that what Star Trek is? I’d give it an A but I think you may go lower.

The introduction of the iconic jacket… Always enjoyed the idea that they know so little about this race that they can decipher the metaphors despite translating the words correctly. It’s not for everyone tho as I remember mother hating this one.

D OR E EPISODE!! I know I’m in the minority on this because most people I know love it, but I cannot stand this episode. I like the idea of being in a situation in which the characters have to work hard to understand a new species. BUT to me the premise of this episode MAKES NO SENSE. It simply CANNOT BE that the universal translator works perfectly all the time but is somehow unable to translate these metaphors. (1) We are constantly speaking in metaphors but are unaware of it. If metaphors were a problem for the universal translator then it would be malfunctioning all the time. (2) Once a metaphor is used enough times, IT STOPS BEING A METAPHOR! This is called a “dead metaphor” and a huge percentage of the vocabulary and turns of phrase we use are dead metaphors. Even though they were metaphorical when they were originally adopted, they stopped being metaphors and we now understand them to be literal. So for these Darmok people, after even one generation of using a metaphor, the universal translator should stop treating it as a metaphorical phrase and just translate the meaning. (3) How do the Darmok people teach their children the meanings of metaphors if they don’t know how to communicate without metaphors? If they had just one little thing, I would have been fine, like, “the universal translators don’t work because the Darmok people’s technology put out a type of radiation that interferes with them.” This is the one time that technobabble was called for!

Darmok is an example of a perfect Star Trek episode to me. What starts as a seemingly stupid episode about some weird aliens that speak in metaphors turns into an excellent episode about working out your differences, understanding each other's language and culture and coming to a mutual understanding to overcome a conflict.

My pick for the *best* episode of TNG. This is not the same as saying it's my *favorite* episode; that's not until Season 6. I also think that the campfire scene is the best scene in the entire Star Trek franchise.

Alex and Josh —- as you guys have said before Execution trumps occasional plot holes. This one is dramatic, well acted, well paced, and takes a swing at some novel concepts. S for me, and then make it an S+ for Patrick Stewart's delivery of the Gilgamesh story.

I dont hate this episode but I also dont like it. everyone will tell you OMG you have to see Darmok its the best ... how novel .. how fresh .. NAH its iite i guess. blah blah Picard is so smart he figured out the language of a people who talk in movie quotes all the time. Yeah but got the dude killed at the same time. Epic Fail.

The debut of the snazzy Picard coat! Always loved this one.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I never liked this episode and always considered it overrated. I mean, I get the premise and the message it's trying to convey but to me it's fundamentally flawed, to even communicate in metaphor requires a base language to start with, and can you even imagine trying to communicate everyday events by quoting lines from stories? How are new stories created if you only reference existing stories in the first place? On a more positive note, the camaraderie between the two captains was very well done. But not enough to merit any more than a C in my opinion.

When I haven't watch TNG in years and I think about TNG, this is actually one of the episodes that plays in my head. This one sticks with people. I really enjoy this episode.

This episode will wind up being in the top 3 for the season.

My friends and I sincerely say "Shaka, when the walls fell" when tragedy strikes. Like as a means to genuinely comfort each other. And I can't tell if that's because human beings have become more like the Tamarians since "Darmok" originally aired, or if it's just that my friends and I are TREMENDOUS dweebs.

I give this one an A for the acting. Picard and Paul Winfield were great. The story was amazing, other than the fact...why didn't Data just download all of the stories for that sector, read them in a split second, and figure out a way to communicate with them through metaphors of their own stories? I like this episode a lot. Might have given it S-tier at one point, but I think it deserves nothing more than an A, which is still very good.

To me, it’s just a B. At best. I can’t believe the percentage of Patreon members that rated it an S. I don’t think it has any business being among the best of the best. I probably have only 5 S-tier episodes out of the entire series. The only one we’ve reached so far was “Yesterday’s Enterprise.” As I see it, in order to be “S,” an episode needs to be on par with “City on the Edge of Forever” IMO, TNG S5E2 just doesn’t rate that high.

agree with the comments so far and hope you guys live it- S tier for me, Paul Winfield is awesome and watching Patrick Stewart show his emotions is so moving - happy december while we're at it

I always hated this episode, as an immigrant it was so frustrating to see, being misunderstood or unable to understand someone else, it always made me so self conscious, but now I love it so much, for the obvious part where patience helps solve the problem and the beauty of breaking that barrier. Plus jacket Picard is the best Picard! Lol B for BANGER !

The only thing that bugs me about this episode is that the Tamarian language doesn’t seem like it should have been so hard to figure out. You’re telling me that the Federation linguists were able to crack that drunken insect nonsense from “The Big Goodbye” but none of them thought to do a Google search for Darmok?

Alex and Josh at season 5. Zinda, his face bored, his Tier B. Shaka, when the Patron subs fell. (Translation: Rate it below an S and you’ll be getting Wrath of Khan levels of grief for a while from fans.)

Darmok and Jalad at McDonalds. Shaka, when the ice cream machine broke. Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. Temba, his stomach empty.

This is easily one of the most memorable TNG episodes. It is my #3 episode for the series. It represents quite well what trying to communicate with an alien species would be like, with few common references. Math and music would seem to be the most "universal" languages.

This is my favorite episode and the reason why I originally joined your Patreon back in Season 2. We get to see not only Trek at its best - using the setting to talk about communication, differences, and similarities between cultures - but within the episode we see the Federation at its best - a diplomat fighting when he needs to in order to achieve not just peace but friendship.

Easy S tier for me. They show this episode in college linguistic courses.

This episode is the first time you see Picard 's new jacket.

Unless you recognize his name in the credits, you won’t recognize Paul Winfield (Captain Dathon) as Captain Terrell from The Wrath of Khan.

I love this episode, but as a kid it always irked me as being an "Enemy Mine rip-off", which was one of my favorite movies around that time. Whether it was meant to be or not I honestly don't know, but it colored my bias unfairly against it back then. As an adult, I can appreciate the episode more in what it was trying to do. I don't see why the universal translator wouldn't still have worked, but hey, it's a fun episode and worthy of an 'A' rating imo.

My favorite episode of TNG, and maybe the franchise's best example of the "seek out new civilizations" ethos. There are definitely logistical issues with the Tamarian language, but it's a great device for the audience to figure out what's happening alongside the crew. Picard taking control of the situation on the bridge at the end and jumping straight into conversation with the Tamarians is a classic "Jean-Luc Picard moment".

This is one of those episodes that sticks with you. It shows us that the Federation aren't just explorers in the sense of like Columbus, seeking out new places and new peoples in order to exploit them for wealth and glory, but truly to understand and communicate with them, AND it shows just how much harder that second type of exploration is than the first, but also how much more rewarding it is.

What a great example episode for what Star Trek is and can be. I believe it was Rich Evans from RedLetterMedia who previously pointed out that one of the things that makes this episode so good is that it teaches you the alien language along with teaching Picard, so by the end of the episode you can basically understand what Picard is saying to them on the view screen.

One of the best episodes in all of Star Trek.

Sokath, his eyes uncovered!!

This episode is a fan favorite of the series and it is easy to see why. The story of breaking through language barriers is done in a compelling way here. When I taught high school English I found every excuse to show this episode (exploring metaphor) and I often found my students enjoyed it. Real star of the show is Paul Winfield who plays Dathon with so much sympathy that we feel a little crushed when he dies. By the way, that new uniform of Picard’s cost over $50k and the costume department was horrified that in it’s first episode Picard is sleeping in the dirt

Oh, and the Tamarian language has sometimes been compared to the modern use of Internet memes to convey both information and emotion -- information such a person doing something that backfires, and emotion such as disgust for the person's stupidity.

Wow, it's Ashley Judd! I really liked this episode. We last saw Paul Winfield in Wrath of Khan, and he's fantastic here as Picard's counterpart. But the episode is a LITTLE flawed in that it's hard to imagine how this language is actually practical, and the conceit breaks down when you want to try explaining really technical things to other people in that language. Analysts have noted the language is NOT metaphor as stated in the episode, but something stranger: imagery or symbolic. There are similarities to allegory, but its deeper makeup in abstraction or logic, with the need for a shared understanding by all involved of the problem that fills in the gaps.

An absolute banger. That's all I have to say.

This is a wonderful episode about communication and two strangers with nothing in common finding a way to work together. Yes, there are flaws. The Tamarians are of course speaking English, for the audience’s sake. In reality, they’d be speaking their own language, AND in metaphors only they know, and the Enterprise crew would have been completely screwed!

This episode to me has always been the epitome of what Star Trek is all about, the wanting to know more about what's out there. Dathon was willing to give his life to learn. Paul Winfield looks much different here than he did when he and Chekov got the Killer Earwig treatment in “Wrath of Khan”. Another reason why Season 5 is my favorite TNG season. Two “Best of the Best” ranked episodes in a row for me.

A great sci-fi idea executed so flawlessly that it starts to feel like one of the ageless, mythic stories it glorifies. Bonus points for being the TNG compare and contrast with TOS's Arena. Bonus bonus points for the reincarnation of Capt. Terrell. It's on my Mount Rushmore of TNG. S++.

S Tier, I love Arrival (2016)

This is STAR TREK this will be S Tier for sure, Language isnt universal and deciphering that language could be a greater task in of its self.

Alex and Josh, their tiers S.

Alex and Josh on a new set with a remote!! You guys talked about how this or that episode of TNG should be taught in school. THIS episode actually WAS taught at universities…about the importance of communication, understanding, and finding common ground! This episode is pure genius. Definitely in my TNG Top 5 of all time and the EPITOME of what Star Trek is about! 🖖

My favorite episode of TNG. Not super hard science bit a real attempt to show an alien method of communication. Great acting by both Sir Patrick and Paul Winfield.

considered one of the best S tier in the entire trek franchise, delving into how we would try to understand an alien race with completely alien way communicating, and how magical the translators are in trek, it like if a alien race discovered us and we spoke in meme's and emoji

THE big meme episode. What's really great about this episode's lesson of learning understanding is that if you pay attention, when you rewatch it, you can TOTALLY understand what the aliens are saying in the first half. (Even though we get yet another "T____arian" alien species)

The concepts stretch believability but the execution is so satisfying. S.

THIS EPISODE is all I think of when I'm on sites like Twitch where people in chats constantly post all these silly emotes that make no sense to me. It's a completely different kind of language that is not possible to decipher unless you're in on it.

(In Picard's voice) I believe there are very few S-tier episodes. They are the most very special of them all. This is one of them.

Oh you know it's a good one when it ends with thoughtful Picard staring out that window...

Great slow burn story as Picard, and us, piece together what the Alien Captain's intentions are.

Picard and Dathon at El Adril!

Okay, here is Part 2 of my absolutely nuclear Star Trek hot takes: This episode is great like everyone says. Sorry no spice today. While the concept actually doesn't really make any sense, I just love stories about trying to understand other cultures. The relationship between Picard and Dathon just really warms my heart. I've always believed stories and works of fiction are sometimes even more critical to understanding a culture than learning its history. This episode really lays that concept on the table in a truly novel way. (Pun intended)

This episode is really special to me since it's the first episode of Star Trek I watched when I had to watch it for a college language class 10 years ago. It's my favorite episode of TNG and in my opinion it's the most "Star Trek" episode of the series.

One of the best “only in Star Trek” episodes. The universal translator technology up till now has mostly been a hand wave for not having to deal with language barriers every single episode. Making an episode dedicated to bridging human language with a truly alien understanding of it makes this memorable and one of the best, even if it’s a little slow to become thought provoking. Easy S.

This is one of the five episodes I used to introduce my friend to Star Trek. It was this, a later episode I will doubtless remark on when it shows up, "Yesterday's Enterprise." It's a great "Science Fiction" episode, much like "Tin Man", so I worry you guys may not appreciate it. I think this is better than Tin Man, and there is a monster, and Patrick Stewart gets to show off his acting chops more than he did in the aforementioned episode, so maybe it'll be more liked. Also, "Darmok... and Jalad... at Tanagra." Famous quote #19

This episode finally marks the debut of Picard’s alternate uniform. Much like Kirk’s green wrap-around variant worn in the original series, it’s a cool way for Picard to stand out visually as the Captain.

This is a very well loved and talked of episode, but it was always kind meh to me. Still though, good on Picard for figuring it out, i don't know that a less patient captain would have emerged with a friendship the way Picard did.

A premise, which by all means probably seems ludicrous on paper, turns into one of the most unexpected and rewarding episodes of the series. The quality of Patrick Stewart's acting merged with the nobility of Picard, alongside music that should be a guest star in the credits themselves enhance what could have been another lame campfire scene ending with 'row, row, row your boat.' The lighting and camera work were perfect, and I felt Paul Winfield's performance light-years above what he had to work with in 'Wrath of Khan.' One of the best scenes in the entire franchise.

In Contagion you have the sci-fi concept of rebooting from a restore partition, and in this one you have the future sci-fi example of "just Google it"

I think this is a good episode but it wouldn't even make my top 10. I also find it strange that a lot of people suggest using it to introduce star trek to people. If you haven't experienced how the universal translator works in other episodes, it loses a lot of its oomph imo. It's also a little ridiculous that Picard could figure out in a couple days what Starfleet couldn't despite previous attempts to communicate with them over the last century according to the episode. Don't get me wrong, this is a good B+ for me with a nice message, but I don't think it's mind-blowing like it's often made out to be. The new jacket almost makes it an A episode though.

Shaka, when Terrell fell...(again).

When people come to you in the future in general conversation and you want to sneak in Star Trek quotes into general conversations, refer back to this one. It’s a great way to confuse phone scammers when you reply with Darmok and Jalad at tenagra, Sinder his eyes red etc

Alex and Josh, their pronunciations questionable.

Top 10 of the series - and one that's proven oddly prescient for 1991 with humanity now communicating in memes... "Leo DiCaprio - his glass raised". "A couple, the boyfriend distracted - the girlfriend shocked." "The dog in the flaming room, his eyes wide, his face optimistic..."

A favorite of many fans, including me. The captain’s jacket appears for the first time. Paul Winfield nails it as Captain Dathon. I love how the alien language was used. About time with all of these aliens we don’t have the universal translator to completely fall back on.

Amazing S-tier episode for me with some great moments and a great showing that the universal translator doesn't always work perfectly in all situations

This is the episode that I show to people to introduce them to TNG. Fantastic episode without being too much to digest. It also got me interested in the epic of Gilgamesh.

Since you guys will be watching the HD remaster, you won't experience the infamous effects snafu of the Enterprise firing phasers out of the torpedo bay, which they fixed in this version.

"Josh and Alex on the internet, their standards held high." Translation: this is a great episode of Star Trek

Just because you speak the same language as someone doesn’t mean you understand what they are saying. And the alien captain is a true hero

"Alex, his eyes red, his Fireball empty"(Tamarian for hungover) Despite the obvious issues with a language made up exclusively of metaphors, I do love this episode. Sure, kidnapping Picard and putting both captains in mortal danger isn't the best approach, but it says a lot that they were willing to go to such lengths just to form a connection. Darmok speaks to a lot of core Star Trek principles, and Picard is a great storyteller.

Whatever you want to rate this, jack it up one extra rating for Paul Winfield.

Just TRY not speaking in metaphor to one another, going forward 😂. What a lesson on communication between two beings that don’t speak the same language. Yet, they can come together not only to understand each other but also learn to have mutual respect. We can all learn a lot from that, alone.

Josh, and Alex, in the Memes.

The guys at Redlettermedia love this episode so much, they ended up buying the mask used for the "invisible" alien on the planet.

One of my all time favorite eps. I just love it. The struggle for communication and the understanding of the importance. AND it is the alien captain that is actually the hero in my opinion. He is the one willing to risk all and final he gave all just to communicate and maybe find friends. The acting to me is awesome as I can feel the frustration of Capt Dathon without understanding a word he is saying. Just great

My son and I have the inside joke of saying "in winter!" instead of saying "be quiet"

Alex and Josh react at Tanagra