Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
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Turn and face the strange
Ch-ch-changes
Don't tell them to grow up and out of it
The White Duke's song seems quite appropriate now, right?
So, the poll is over and results are in:
A lot of people voted, and many contributed constructive ideas in the comments. But what I'm even more grateful for is the warmth of your words of encouragement. I read every single comment, and it really gives me strength and determination to go on when I see how passionate this community is about VR, despite the rivers of hate that flow out there, just outside our beautiful Zen garden.
The "early access for supporters, then free for everybody" model is the clear winner, with a crushing majority of 62% preferences. Conversely, almost nobody wants to end the journey here ;-)
Some of you suggested to have a second poll to decide between options 2 and 3, since they ended up being pretty close, but I don't think there's enough evidence to make the choice between those two really meaningful and solid.
Therefore, I'm inclined to follow a hybrid path. New games supported by the framework will be in early access (paying subscribers only) for a period of time ranging from 3 to 6 months, depending on several factors: how popular the title is, how frequently VR support breaks because of official updates, how much progress is needed or expected with the quality of the experience after the initial release, and the such.
For example: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3280350/DEATH_STRANDING_2_ON_THE_BEACH/ is coming in 12 days. Since R.E.A.L. VR already supports the first game in the franchise and I have some experience with the Decima engine, I will certainly try my best to add it to our collection of titles playable in fully immersive VR.
If it only takes me a few days to do that, and the game doesn't get a flurry of patches after release (like for instance good old https://store.steampowered.com/app/1091500/Cyberpunk_2077/ was infamous for, thank you very much), and you are satisfied with the quality of the VR experience, 3 months of early access should be enough.
A few of you have been wondering what happens if a game no longer in early access (i.e., no longer being actively worked upon) gets a sudden official update that breaks VR. Will users have to roll back the update to continue playing in VR? Or will I still make the changes to the framework which are needed to keep VR support fully functional? In the latter case, will the game return to early access after the revisions, maybe for a shorter period like 1 month?
And what about the games involved in DMCA strikes? Should we keep supporting them for free, despite the obvious statement made by the publishers?
I will try to work out answers to those questions during the following weeks/months. I'm not sure yet, and there are sound arguments on each side of the debate. Again, it depends on many factors: how popular the game is, how much effort is needed to restore VR functionality, how many supporters are interested in fixing the game as opposed to free users, etc.
Stay tuned! In the course of the next few days I'll be restructuring both the R.E.A.L. VR software and my post collection to account for the ch-ch-changes we're going through. I'll try to restore at least basic access as soon as possible, although I must tread carefully because I certainly don't want to invite more attacks to our precious little community []-)
Comments (100)
Have enjoyed many of games you have provided VR support for, to the point I very seldom play flat games anymore. Along that line I am really enjoying Death Stranding 2, simply delightfully. In general I prefer AAA games that you have modified more than most native VR games. Kudos to Luke and the rest of the support team for your efforts.
Good choice here. Very hopeful for the future of gaming and creators like you.
Hi! Saw that You have High on Life first part, are You planning to fix 2nd part as well ?
I highly doubt it. It works with UEVR though :) So, you can already play it.
Thanks for all the hard work put into making this framework. It has made for some unforgettable game experiences (platforming down to Mhog depths in Elden Ring in full VR or just camping out under the stars in RDR2..). It deserves an award. 🙌
I just beat Baldur's Gate 3. It took 174 hours and I played all of it in VR with this framework. It was absolutely magical, truly a treasured and meaningful experience. The VR mode made it much more personal, and very, very memorable. So much so, that as soon as the credits started rolling, I felt some sort of weird and silly sadness. As if I was leaving some sort alternate life behind, together with friends and places. I wasn't anticipating it, so I was very surprising to feel something like that. This incredible game, combined with the extremely immersive VR mode, is truly something special. And likely it is the ultimate way to experience the best RPG in decades. Thanks for making this priceless experience happen, Luke.
Yeah, I actually felt that way after playing through Days Gone. Although it is much smaller in scope, I really got attached to the world and characters. Even more understandable after 174 hours in a world with even more fleshed out characters who grow and develop over the course of the game. I totally get it. I think that feeling is the highest praise a gaming experience can get 😉
+1 idea for the subscriber benefit pool: polls for game selection. i.e. if your hours are going to be reduced due to this and (real)istically cannot tackle games at the same rate-- at least that would give more headroom for measuring community interest in potential game candidates, of course still on the basis of your confidence in adapting the title. This would also probably lead to happier subs who have some input on what titles are next in line for the VR treatment. Personally speaking though, I'm just happy this isn't the end and my REAL game collection will continue to grow. Cheers!
You're doing a fantastic job and giving the VR community a boost with your support.
can’t wait for Death Stranding 2 VR support!!!
HI i need help , my account has been charged March 1 2026 for VR Friend but i no longer have access to the current posts. It tells i have to upgrade. My Access should be valid until April 1 2026.
same issue here, i cant access that DG post.... i'm subbed obviously !
Keep going and stay strong. Don’t let this discourage you. 💪💪💪💪The big studios are very powerful, that’s true, but in the end the question is whether they will actually take real action or if it’s mostly just pressure and noise. Stay focused and continue your work.
It's great to see that this project is not closing & there will be new fixes in VR, because I think this is way to play games. And most of all this I'm happy that You thought about other opportunities to keep this amazing project alive & after hate in comments You can stand up & continue to do Your journey :) Wish You keep strong & remember that there are more people which love Your work, than those who hate, haters are only louder :)
"Reality Enhancement Augmentation Layer" is back !!!!!! Stronger than ever !!!!
I like the positivity 😊
i bought recently a Pimax crystal super micro oled and i tried for the third time KCD2. I thought it was absolutely amazing, that sensations like these should be experienced by everyone. The test was so conclusive that I went back for a whole game. i don't forget the editor talent but your work Luke give the emotion. Thanks !
Still waiting for my preorder, can't wait to play Cyberpunk and KCD2 on it
Mostly I just like that Luke's tone seems happier and more optimistic! Haters never subbed! You're a star!
I love your work and am always happy to support your efforts. While currently the only game on you list is Cyberpunk that I currently play (taking a break for bit while this get sorted) I can’t wait to see what else you add that I might play. They just announced a Sword art online game. Not sure how the game play is going to be but I would LOVE. To see that in vr.
I’ve got 200 hours in KCD2, was considering a 3D mod but might wait for this.
What 3D mod ?
an idea is also you can maybe poll paying subscribers if a game update messes up VR for it, whether they want you to work on that game or just drop it and work on something new.
See that right there? I was not planning to buy DS2 for now, at all! Now it is immediately on my radar, likely day 1 purchase. That's the value of this framework, and just a fraction of it. Good to see things moving forward.
I for one, am impressed with your responses throughout all this (from the game developers to the haters, hating). I did not vote on the choices as I am sure that you will indeed make the right choice that makes your soul happy, overall. Keep on enjoying the things that you love. Also, thank you for all the wonderful work you have done to make our playing games in vr!
We have to admire the participative process Luke Ross used in developing his new business model! He has shown considerable respect for this community. We will support whatever decision he makes... I believe new REAL games should be advertised more broadly than has been done previously, starting with the flat2VR Discord forum - https://discord.com/channels/747967102895390741/846395677646651432. As previously suggested by other users, I prefer calling this member exclusive period a Beta test period, without a rigid release definition (3-6 months, typically). Member perks might include more participation in new game selection, like Mutar has done. Really looking forward to Death Stranding 2 - first game was great, and Luke's fix was/is superb! Too bad about Sony's recent decision to end exclusive game migration to PC (like Saros).
In addition to the new approach would it make sense to attack the problem at its root and fight CDPRs DMCA in court? Maybe start something like a gofundme for that matter as we are all affected? What do lawyers say what a court would base the fees on? (Sorry if this has been discussed in detail before. I have not followed all of the recent discussions, but saw the analysis that LR would have a strong case.)
On a purely selfish note, I'm very happy option 5 received zero traction. So very glad your work will continue. Will you be rebranding to move away from association with the ever charitable "we must work for free" modding community? A new name perhaps? "Real VR 2.0"? "Really Real VR"? "Semi-FreeVR"? or maybe just..."Phoenix VR" as you rise from the ashes of this needless and deplorable situation. Glad you're on the way back! Death Stranding 2! Hated the first one but lets go regardless!!
The second game is supposed to have lots more QOL features and be a big improvement gameplay wise over the first. Might be worth giving it a shot :)
So glad to see your return! Not that just keeping the games you've already worked on wouldn't have been a lifetime of great games, but having your work continue to grow the library beyond just Unreal games is the best news for f2vr fans! The amount of engines you've been able to get running, and running well, is something no one else has managed!
I'm happy to go with everything that suits you Luke! And a big shout out to the community who stands by you faithfully.
Greetings Sir Luke and VR people, I'm happy unanimity choose to keep pioneering with passion. Where I get to worry is that this timespan approach can be hazardous: R.E.A.LVR is still exposed to mob hate and DMCA strikes even with the limited timespan acting as an "invisibility" shield with enough luck. The overall process remains criticizable and strikeable. Dmca strikes triggering or vanishing is very binded to the way RVR offer is restructured from the ground up. Paywall IS the trigger to be carefully considered here. Clear separation between paywalled and free parts can solve all of this. Paying member should be framed more as a RVR generic framework developpement than a 'gaining early access to a particular game behind a paywall', which that framing is where the controversy and legal issues arise from. RVR Generic framework access and development can be where all the cash flows in with subscriptions and donations, but particular game support can't generate income (due to DMCA rules). I strongly believe the solution is to set clear separation of thoses and bind link all this lego parts with proper communication. Cheers!
I'm glad you are making changes needed to sustain yourself and what you've built. I hope as many publishers as possible allow your software to exist without being jerks about it. I love the REAL branding but do you think to protect yourself you should pivot the name to avoid the mod association? Just food for thought in case you have another one you love kicking around. Excited for this next chapter for ya.
Hey I'm currently playing Cyberpunk 2077 with your mod and it indeed lives up to the hype! I think it might be the best VR game I've ever played. Even better the Half-Life Alyx. Although Resident Evil 4 might be my favorite tbh but CP2077 is perfect in VR. Anyway. I would recommend making the mod free it there is a DMCA strike or else people will just go and try and pirate your mod which could lose you subscribers. Might as well keep everything in one place. I guess if they still want you to take it down even if it's free then I guess you have no choice although I would like to see you sue just to see where it leads but that could be a headache. Glad you're keeping at it! Thanks for all the good times!
Thank you for all your hard work to enrich our gaming experience. "Illegitimi non carborundum"
My last comment to Luke besides thank you again for bringing so many cool fames to VR. Don't let any updates break the "free" mods forever, it would be a sad wate of energy and effort doung so. Even if you make people wait weeks to months, no one will care as long as it works again sooner than later. We appreciate you bro, keep do your killer work, it is pure money to people like me.
Ziggy Stardust approves this message.
I don't really understand how this approach solves the problem. You will still have games behind a paywall, even if only temporarily. You think if it's "closed beta testing" or something, that won't raise the ire of the publishers?
There hasn't been much ire of publishers to be super concerned about over the space of a short time. I don't think. It just makes them free most likely before a publisher would probably notice and DMCA them.
My heart leaps with joy that we can continue our journey into the fantastic worlds of VR. Thank you so much, Luke, for continuing your amazing work.
Great to hear you are moving on. Reddit was unreal, vr youtubers (except MRTV) a big disappointment. Rewarding haters and DMCA companies by financing free mods for them does not feel quite right, but it is what it is. In an ideal world you will end up with more subscribers because without the paywall more people will get to know (and hopefully appreciate) your work.
MRTV certainly went up in my estimation, he was the only VR YouTube to back him fully.
Please collaborate with Pimax. I really want to experience all these games on a modern 4K headset. Right now a bunch of them don’t work on Pimax.
I haven't had any games I can't get working on my Pimax Crystal Light so far. It would be great to solidify compatibility fully though. So we can use OpenXR without complications.
I think there have been several times in recent troubles when you've communicated in a way that has helped neither the "community" nor your case. That said, I'm still happy to subscribe to your mod. I think what you're doing adds real value to my gaming life, and I'm thankful you're still committed to it. I wish you the best of luck now and in the future.
Awesome! Glad that you’re staying in the game. REAL VR is the biggest reason I use my VR headset.
I love, what you do for the VR community and I respect you even more, for not dropping the towel after publishers and the childish part of the gaming community out there proved to be a bunch of dumb retards and made things so ugly and complicated for you. You sir, definitely deserve even more support.
WAIT! DOES THAT MEAN WE MAY SEE AN RDR2 REAL VR MOD ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
updating the RDR and GTA for free users would be amazing and win a lot of goodwill.
What does this mean for the avatar frontiers of pandora mod? Is it gone forever?
Why would it be gone forever?
I'm glad to see that you are still pushing forward. I'll probably get some pushback on this, but what if you did release your current mods for free as is, with the exception of your newest versions, like BG3 or an updated version of Cyberpunk 2077, which is currently being tested by your community and will be officially released in the next couple months for free. Of course this timeline is arbitrary, but what if premium membership gives access to alpha and beta testing the mods for the months prior to full release to provide feedback and report bugs? Additional perks, such as priority on technical support, voting on the next game your mod supports, or even getting additional functionality out of the mods for testing purposes makes being a premium member more than just 'gaining early access behind a paywall', which that framing is where I think the main controversy and legal issues come up. I'm just throwing out some ideas where premium membership is still beneficial without potentially getting DMCA strikes. I hope this sparks some ideas for you getting your win-win scenario.
A couple of those things seem like a given. The free version will probably have little to no tech support. And the 3-6 month EA period already allows for fixing bugs over that period 😉
Sooo glad to hear it, let the journey continue!! Such a privilege to be able to tag along, thank you
Witcher 3 otw?
Yes. I fell like it's otw
Thank You Luke and team for keepin on! I was thinking even if things had shut down I would have continued my patreon as I feel greatly in your debt, after many years of vr gaming enjoyment! And I have spent a lot more time fooling around with uevr lately, as as you said, it takes a lot of effort to get modern game releases running with uevr. I often abandon uevr games because they don't work well but are otherwise great games. The support you put into your projects becomes even more important in that light .
Good to hear Luke, you are a leader now, heavy rest the crown, Long Live The King...
For DCMA title requiring a patch, you could "kickstart" the patch. If a funding goal is met, you release it for free to everyone. That's legal, right? Because you're not selling it, just asking for enough donations to give a fuck.
Good news, as Ive said many times these mods have breathed new life into my old gaming bones and have brought me many happy times in the past year, still playing through Avatar, Doom and now Kingdom come. These have been some of the best gaming experiences to date, all of which would not be possible without Luke and Brandon. I will gladly continue my support as I feel it has been and will be worth every penny.
Keep the medium alive! 💪 When life gives your lemonade, kick it right square in the lemons!
So awesome! Was getting worried there. REAL VR FOREVER. We really appreciate you a lot!
That's great news! I'm also looking forward to DS2 in VR, as the first one was the first VR version of a flat game that immediately clicked and I finished it entirely in VR. It's still probably the best looking one too, or at least one of. I think it's very important to keep the old games working though and I'm willing to wait more for new games in return for the support of the existing ones. I'd imagine it'd be a bummer to start the game in VR and then not to be able to finish it that way. Rolling back the version is probably good enough for most cases, but I'm sure there will be cases where it would be a bit problematic. Imagine having to play the initially released version Cyberpunk to run it in VR now after all the updates, for example. An extreme example, but the patch that breaks VR support can also solve some very critical bugs. In any case, let's see how it goes and keep it flexible! I really hope your sub count will stay decent!
great , stay positive mate vr needs you more than ever , keep vr alive
Its a path forward . And that a positive thing .
Awesome, I'm glad you're still around to let us play in VR. Why not add some extra tiers to support you? Thanks for everything, Luke.
Agreed, you could add high value tiers for rich people who want to support you.
Personally I think once a game is out of early access, it should stay out of early access. But I'm not the one putting in the work, so that's ultimately up to you. Just my opinion. Either way I'm glad you're continuing on. Your framework has given me some of my favorite experiences in VR.
Cool,,
Thanks a lot Luke! Indeed very happy that you will continue! There aren't really a lot of great VR games. Your work makes it possible to play great games in true VR.
Great news! I think the Cyberpunk, GTA and RDR2 mods should be out there for the community to update even if you can’t.
Updated GTA and RDR2 mods would be incredible
Let's get a $30 and $60 tier option.
great to hear you will carry on. VR would not be the same without your mods!
Keep in mind you can still patch for fixes for games with dmca take downs by making the fix description generic and not advertising that your mod includes anything for said game.
You're amazing, Luke! Thanks for persisting through and helping the VR community despite all you've had to go through. Keep being awesome!!!
Thank you Luke! Excited there is a way forward!
Ty Luke for continuing on .it wouldn't be the same without your great work
i hope games you modded in vr with updates breaking them will get updated again for VR support, why not putting them again behind paywall for a period of time you decide, else having to rollback and losing game patches improvements/content would be a shame :/ and i'm very happy you keep going, you're making my gaming life so much better with your amazing VR mods <3
You need to realise you are pioneering the path towards mainstream VR gaming more than Meta and others. Your software should be valued even higher in my opinion but I guess it's good more people will be trying it out with free games avaliable, you will have a massive legacy in the future when VR hits mainstream application in coming 20 yrs. Thankyou for your work!!
Thank you for choosing to continue on. Makes me very happy. As a supporter I'm all for having fixes drop back into the supporter only bin for a period which should encourage people to support you. As for the DMCA games, that's a tough one. From a selfish standpoint I want them to stay in the free content. But I'm irritated that these companies don't just live and let live. It's not hurting them. But I've figured out a way to version-freeze games with your mods and keep playing them indefinitley so I'm good either way. All the best!!!
Do rdr2 free version. Legally stick it to take two and give us the best gift ever LOL
Take our money and be the change you (we) want to see in the world.
And glad your moving forward! First positive post from you in a long time! I can tell your feeling good about the future again!
I would love to see the time based to release on a preset list of requirements (with a max time possibly). And have the list in advance... And every 'release' be open about what the status is to the open public. So for instance starting to work on a new game - basic injection, menus, cut scenes, testing. Then when each milestone is hit your up front about it. And then the basic testing would keep it behind the firewall for a few months. Up front, open... and nobody will complain if it's behind a firewall for a few months for testing if they are, in the end, released.
That sounds about right, and pretty inevitable. I suspect you may have to back off titles you're getting DMCA notices about... but we'll see. Maybe there's a way to present the list of games in the pinned post that indicates yours and the community's satisfaction with the quality of the VR for them. I.e. a game that gets a VR breaking update drops in satisfaction, a game that has to stall in it's support because of a DMCA notice, goes unchecked and might become a concern too. While other games are thoroughly tested and enjoyed by the community and have a high level of satisfaction/experience. I know it would help you if you knew how many people were playing each one as well. Right now the main indicator I can see for that is the number of comments on the Discord, but that's not really an accurate indicator... that could just be more chat with a fewer number of players. Anyway, that's a few thoughts for you to consider.
That's good news :)
So cyberpunk vr mod will be worked on again?
You rock Luke! You are the best!!!! I can’t wait for a new game (even if I think this won’t be for a while)… you are the best!!! Have you planned to reactivate the subscription?
Luke, you lost already to much time on this, and we lost to many updates on our VR gaming. Go back to work! :-D You have my support and Euros (because im in EU). Also consider this game as well Ark Ascended! you have quite a few players there as well that would benefit from your VR Mod Skill.
Best possible outcome. Not only should it shutup cheapskates but uplifts VR as a whole. Good luck and welcome back!
They hate because they don't know what to play !!!! We don't have time to hate ... ;) PD: So DCMA strikes are over the table again ... are you thinking GTA6 ? :-O
Fantastic news Luke, you will always have my full support.
As someone who was desperately hoping for Witcher 3 support, I wish there was somehow to make that worth your while even if it means that title has to go straight to the free version. Maybe some kind of a bounty system that supporters who want a specific title can contribute to?
I've only voted 6 months because two months got ridiculous high vote count.
Witcher 3 please :)
Excellent new please keep it up.. avatar frontiers, indiana jones, cyberpunk.. ( dull area sorry) and doom are among some of my favourites. Avatar is simply awesome.. well they all are... keep it up
either way you still get my money
You’re the best
I think this a great solution, we need you back!