S3E8.5: Master and Commander

after recently rewatching this & finding to my dismay that id forgotten how utterly it Fails to do justice to the majesty of the books, i was like "... wonder if somewhere in the KJB back catalogue november kelly has Talked About this" & sure enough... thank u nova 🙏🙏🙏 (unrelatedly: the book versions of aubrey & maturin both have immense tguy energy, which i find funnier with every reread..)

This will be forever one of my favorite episodes because I had a special interest in naval technology in the age of sail pre-cracking. And looking back on it, it's a good movie if HORRIFYING. May have had a effect on me not wanting to join the military at the time (thank goodness).

Came back here after Moby Dick then lost several hours reading about British navy slang. Also, whatshisface is absolutely correct in putting "argh" next to the seal - that is the sound that many seals make. (To the reader of this comment, please look up grey seal pups. The noises they make are indescribable)

I really do want Mistress & Commander….

I'm sorry, but if anyone is going to give the message "American's you're not always the good guys" it is not going to be the fucking *British*

Incorrect, the fan claim was that "they didnt want to piss off americans" but per the screenwriters the fact that only one book is about fighting the Americans and the entire rest of the franchise is fighting the French they thought it was inappropriate to have a character known for fighting the French not fighting the French

Abi I think it's worth mentioning that Mariner is absolutely wrong about Picard ordering her friend to her death - Sito was offered the mission and took it voluntarily. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sito_Jaxa. Mariner's grief is worth mentioning, but largely because she's unable to face up to the truth that her friend knowingly risked her life for Starfleet, and died. That's not "what it's like to be that guy's friend", it's "what it's like to be that guy's friend if you can't engage honestly with the reality of an unpleasant situation".

"This film is incredibly well put together" yes well, Peter Weir. And it's not the only Peter Weir film to explore the idea of war maybe not being such a fine thing - let me introduce you to a film called Gallipoli.

Thrilled that Devon (my favourite Australian lunchmeat) also enjoys Business Insider. Every episode of Still Standing and So Expensive includes a point about climate change and how governments need to support people, it rules.

Fun fact the claim that "They made the enemies the french because they didn't want to lose the American Market" is wrong. That's why Horatio Hornblower never fights the Americans, C.S. Forester didn't want to alienate the Americans. The Producers of this film considered it a sin to not have Aubrey fight his iconic foe in what they feared (and what proved the be) would be the only installment in the franchise. This is also why, despite the hull being based on the Constitution, the ship is NOT a 32 gun frigate the way the USS Essex (the US ship that inspired the one in the book) was at the time. It's a 44 gun heavy frigate murder machine (also of note is that the Constitution IRL was a 56 gun despite being designed for 44, meaning even then the ship does not resemble the real constitution). It also means that they got to avoid the ending of the book where Aubrey DOES hunt a Constitution class frigate, only to find it shipwrecked on an island.

Mistress and Commander: For Podcast and Cuntry

Science let's you be better at war by allowing you to do what will later be war crimes. Good thing those haven't been invented yet

Not far in, but things I've learned about the Acheron so far: should have been a thicc American.

Sorry, I can't understand the Jonah comparison without it first being translated into Star Trek. Would Nineveh be Romulus or Qo'noS?

Using Star Trek to Understand Things is a bigger part of my internal monologue than I'd usually care to admit. Fantastic episode!

I would go one step further on the fact that you can train to be a good leader and say that you straight up don’t have to be a leader. Statistically most people won’t be. But that just shows how individualistic our society is.

Interesting point about Fury. I thought it was a more profoundly bipolar than the usual post-Vietnam US war film fare (war is hell BUT ALSO WE ROCK AT IT FUCK YEAH !), didn't necessarily pick up on the fascism. Or the *more* fascism, anyway. Will be waiting for that one with bated breath.

Fantastic episode as usual. I haven't seen Master & Commander since it came out, but now I must rewatch it and think of Star Trek the whole time.

I love all the Star Trek allusions because Master & Commander is the best Star Trek movie ever committed to film.

Half an hour in and Alice has persuaded me that I want to read a twenty book series when I barely read anything anymore

For Devon!! My name is pronounced "Ah-ROO-sha-lay Table Building Society." But also :3

It's really fun contrasting your review of this with Lions Led by Donkeys, and as someone who watched Fury and Had Thoughts, I really want you to do that damn movie.

I'm disappointed that the gang didn't mention that in those dinner scenes Aubrey is hammered.

I am very glad with Alice's "books better" interjections. I feel seen.

What I took away from the discuss of Alice's nemesis is that Abi has slept with her.

Abi, you have officially unlocked a new part of my brain, I can understand the boring old war movies through the lens of star trek. I would love to see you folks do some star trek content at some point, there are some weirdly applicable movies and episodes. Like I know you don't do shorter content but Deep Space Nine straight up has a holodeck bond homage episode with Dr. Bashir and Garak.

I'm loling so hard at Abi putting navy stuff in star trek terms, now I really want to see her reaction to the Honor Harrington books.

Re: “Only Britain is fucked up enough to produce child officers”. IIRC in 1805 Russia, it wasn’t uncommon for landowners to sign their failsons up for the military at birth. They would then stay at home until they were adults, at which point they’d go actually participate in the military, but by then they’d have nearly two decades of on-paper service and quite a high seniority (and therefore a very high rank).

Y'all. Lawnmower Man. It's incredibly problematic, bizarre, and features Our Boy™, Shirtless Pierce Brosnan.

This episode hit different after seeing Devon on Quorators and realizing how damn hot they are. Goddamn.

So I actually was in the US navy on a submarine for a few years, and this film is one of the most relatable films for being in the naval service, both the good and the bad, also we had weevils onboard during one deployment and we made very similar jokes about them

And I have been reliably informed by my partner, who is a sailor that cape horn is the real shit (and that ships with motors ain't shit)

Ironically I spent my later teenage year expecting to apply as a submarine officer

On the port I had an initial laugh about that being ridiculous and then an immediate flash back to being in the air cadets and being told not to lift the port

Hey Devon, I don't think I got the shoutout on this episode, it may be down to me having changed my Patreon name

My assumption was that Devon’s nemesis was the chimp with a sword and I do believe the chimp has a locket with their face.

sorry last one i just get excited about this movie but would you say that dudes rock, but they do not rock as they please; they do not rock under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The rocking of all dead dudes weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living.

love this film, love our hosts, love their commentary

The year is 2255. Battlefields are oceans.

Speaking of Americans seeing themselves from the outside: I was in Toronto a little over a year ago and visited some of the historical sights, particularly the restored forts and some stuff that also did some Canadian military history. And one of the things that really made me leave my body a bit was to be presented with a perspective of America I knew only in the abstract: the US as the attacker. Like about how we burned York/Former Toronto to the ground.

also when i was a kid i was subscribed to this children's science magazine (muse... iykyk) that ran an article about the process of filming m&c and it was absolutely fascinating. like the miniature ships they built for distance shots and how they filmed a bunch of storm scenes in the studio in mexico that was built for the sinking scene in titanic because nowhere else was big enough and put the ships on these big rollers to toss them up and down. and if anyone's ever in san diego, you can go to the maritime museum and see the replica surprise!

i will say it: sergei bondarchuk does NOT do a better job with the cannon in waterloo. waterloo was dubbed in post-production and the sound editors did not put the cannonfire back in in a lot of the scenes. m&c's sound design is, imo, superb, and does a lot of the lifting in conveying the terror of a cannon barrage.

I read a bunch of the Aubrey/Maturin books and all the sailing talk seemed EXACTLY like Star Trek technobabble to me. Also California Class FTW.

Psssssssst, hey Alice... Sophie's maiden name was Williams. Diana's was Villiers. Also, those hanging bags at the beginning are the off-duty watch sleeping in their hammocks, not powder bags. You can hear the snoring in the background.

Is this the start of “war movie season”

A glass of wine with you, ma'am. I am most deeply obliged for this.

I really hope we get a Verhoven season or something in the future because starship troopers would also be interesting to hear about from Alice.

This movie's biggest failure as an adaptation is that it doesn't include Maturin's terrible full-body knitted garment. I'm also reminded of Ice Station Zebra, a not nearly as good movie which is also about the constraints of command.

I'm looking at the thumbnail and I can't not think of the Omni Man twerk meme

Listening to the end of this, I kinda want to hear ya’ll do “Oh What A Lovely War” - defo not a dudes rock film, but kinda a “guillotine in Piccadilly Square” feeling film.

As one of those not on Twitter, I appreciate the brief explanation of what the actual fuck was going on

i appreciate your star trek bits, abi, even if your cohosts don't

I mean... this doesn't rule out Starship Troopers for a future episode, does it? 🥺👉👈

My dad went through a weird phase where he'd put this on in the background every evening while cooking for about 6 months. The fact I still have fond memories of this movie is a testament to its quality.

Ah, FABULOUS film, looking forward to this one. Breaks my heart that it basically ended Peter Weir’s career, such a great filmmaker

It’s here!

I fucken love listening to a podcast where I have to have to keep going back to listen to 8 or 10 minute chunks because I end up opening and getting stuck reading the wikipedia pages for the hms surprise, impressment, figurehead (object), the battle off samar, the uss Samuel b roberts, star trek lower decks and I'm less than hour in but I've been "listening" for like two

Mistress and commander is better than femboy hooters and I want it more.

Now that you guys have done one boat movie, you really have to do the Horatio Hornblower movie made in the 50s.

In the books Aubrey is described as being fat like an ex-football player and Maturin is just plain ugly. O'Brian presumably thought that if you have a character who is Irish anarchist James Bond mixed with Charles Darwin (gay), giving him Paul Bettany good looks would be unfair to every other man on Earth.

Hell yeah. I wanted to note one thing about the scene where the wind pick back up after Hollom's death. It doesn’t pick back up once he dies, it picks back up once Aubrey asks God and Hollom for forgiveness for driving him to suicide. My interpretation was always that this shows Hollom wasn't cursed, it was the crew's malice and resentment that led to them being becalmed. It's only because Aubrey reconciles this malice and asks for forgiveness that they can sail again. It's a more spiritual interpretation, but I think that's what the movies intends for this scene.

"it's not the books!" YES HOOTING AND CLAPPING

OMG Now I want to see Alice in a LLBD series about the Battle off Samar. Go off, queen!

Special military operation until cars 2 again.

Once again asking you to review the norris vehicle “good guys wear black”

"The simple truth is that not all of us become the dudes who rock that we might wish to be"

This pick was certainly the lesser of two weevils

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An episode that hits like a broadside in the fog. KJB has the weather gauge!

The hermeneutical injustice comment... perfect ❤️‍🔥

Russel Crowe is 3 for 3 for “Movies in which I just assume his character is in a romantic relationship with the other male lead despite it never coming up”

FUUUCK THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE MOVIES I ABSOLUTELY ADORE YOU GUYS

Cars 2² was robbed

Nearly two hours of Master and Commander discussion? Hell yeah.