S4E37.5: Big Trouble in Little China

I live in Japan and it’s not just like, people are okay with you dressing up in traditional clothes even if you’re a foreigner, a lot of people are really excited about it. I have conversational Japanese and one of the first questions people ask is whether I wear Japanese clothes. I get that it feels like appropriation sometimes but if the actual people want you to appreciate their culture I feel like you’re good.

I know it has been a while since this excellent episode came out but I also just recently rewatched the movie and am relistening to the episode and I wanted to share some fun little historical details and the like. The first is the film makes a fascinating mistake when it says Qin Shi Huang did all his conquering around 272 BCE, since he would not be born for another 13 years. It would have been more accurate to say 227 BCE, since that was when he was active and conquering the other six kingdoms (a job he completed in 221 BCE), but hey at least they are in the right century. But in contrast, for something they got right and I don't even know if they fully realized it but the sequence where Lo Pan and Egg Shen summon images of magical warriors to fight above the big battle at the end does have precedence in Chinese fantastical literature. In chapter 117 (out of 120) of the 120 chapter edition of the classic novel Water Margin (Shuihu zhuan 水浒传), during a huge battle, the heroic general Guan Sheng is duelling an enemy general named Zheng Biao when Zheng Biao's commander, the sorceror Bao Daoyi summons a mystical warrior to assist Zheng Biao and mirror his duel with Guan Sheng. To counter this, Guan Sheng's comrades Song Jiang (the novel's kind of protagonist) and Fan Rui do magic of their own and summon their own mystical warrior to assist Guan Sheng in defeating Zheng Biao. And on top of that, Song Jiang orders his artillery commander Ling Zhen to open fire directly on Bao Daoyi, killing the sorceror with the power of cannons (and to quote a great Nova bit from No Gods No Mayors, tells Bao Daoyi "This fast, fuckass, chemistry's been invented"). The reason I bring up this whole thing is that an illustration of this sequence in a Ming Dynasty edition of the novel looks very similar to the scene in Big Trouble in Little China and I just think that's really cool and shows how much they effort they put into the film (even if I don't know if the resemblance is intentional).

"Ah say, open up this heyuh kimono pit!" Daniel Craig in Benoit Blanc goes East.

Oh hell yes!

The Anchorman fight is based on a fight in Gangs of New York

The 'never thought about white women for 2300 years' bit really does make it seem like there's a line missing where Grace is said to have been born in China to American parents, (or to have one Chinese grandparent), thus technically fulfilling Lo Pan's criteria

Perhaps add The Sting to your heist season lineup!

It's kind of gross that Miao Yin has no lines! I wondered if this was because of some difficulty with Suzee Pai, who was a model rather than an actor, but I looked at the script by Walter Richter and it gives her exactly eight words ("Yes / Some, yes / Yes, Miao Yin / Yes / There"), none of which were included in the released film. Wouldn't the film have been more interesting with a dialogue scene between Miao Yin and Lo Pan? If she had been tempted by getting magical powers, living forever, and ruling the universe with him? If we could have seen her choose Wang Chi? Ah well ...

Okay everyone our mission is clear: introduce Abigail to D&D. I man can we even call someone who has NEVER rolled a d20 truly alive?

Hearing that the next bonus episode is opening the door to spaceships as trucks: THIS WOULD'VE BEEN THE PERFECT TIME TO DO THE TRUCK 🤝 RELIGION MOVIE OF ALL TIME. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. What does God need with a truck? Also, as a transmasc top, begging you to not nuke San Francisco because that's where I go to have my gay little nights out. Menlo Park, Cupertino, and Palo Alto except downtown because it's got that cool theater can be wiped off the map, though. Take out San Jose, too.

Question about the funding to your friend in Gaza that I was reminded of with the latest WTYPD: How is the money donated actually reaching him with Israel's blockade and ongoing torture of Gazans? Are there smuggler routes? Or is this more of a case of "medicine/food can get through the genocidal blockade if you bribe the right people" situation? Or is Freedom Flotilla just Zerg Rushing the blockade to penetrate faster than Israel can stop them?

all the d&d talk is making me curious about some sort of bonus episode one-shot with Abby, Devon, and Nova

It took November longer to arrive at 'Gone With the Wind' than for Sherman to reach the sea

As someone who grew up riding around in an American semi- yeeeeeah

Y'all gotta get on Reflection In A Dead Diamond 2025 someone beat you to the punch and made the satire bond moon pussy film of your dreams

1) I maintain this may be the greatest movie. Full stop. 2) if you ever get the chance to see it on the big screen, do not hesitate. I got to do it last year. Transcendental

By the way, Abi: “Persona”? So good. Thank you for the recommendation.

watching big trouble in little china in prep for this episode helped me reconnect to a part of myself I wasn't sure had made it through transition. turns out 80s action movies are still the most fun shit to watch ever and I REALLY hope y'all do more

I was not expecting a Zack Pinsent shout out in my kill James bond

Don't know the best place to post this, but you guys should check out "Let the Right One In" (the Swedish version from 2008). It's an interesting move which is about a "trans"-vampire, portrayed in an interesting way.

I'm hoping I heard correctly that this is the start of Truck Season, as I would love KJBs on Convey and the Smokey and the Bandit series. I mean, the entire genre is about fucking with cops in a big way.

Wait, there aren't any historical recreation festivals in the UK? I'm kinda shocked. It's not just ren faires either. In San Francisco we have a Dickens Fair every Christmas that's a ton of fun. And yes, a lot of the attendees are trans baddies who used to be pasty nerds.

My first ever time at a strip club there was this guy there dressed exactly like Jack Burton. He looked terrified of the dancers. Eyes bugging out

You also have Bernadette Banner on loan, and she's Bringing It in the historical dress department also

Pinsent Tailoring appreciation! 🙌

I own the tank top, it rips. Thanks for the perfect pick Dev.

Wondering what the team would think of Peckinpah’s ‘Convoy’

It my not be cultural appropriation if you get kidnapped and are put in Chinese wedding clothing, but good luck explaining that to cancel hungry Millennials on Instagram.

I wonder if the tailoring being so tight and the outfits being so layered makes mimicking victorian fashion harder than a hanbok or kimono? Because you're right, its strange that i havent seen pictures of chinese tourists posing in bonnets and corsets in front of big ben. I feel like they would go crazy for that

I'm so happy to see my Career the Truckm'n getting love. And Can confirm the Bussm'n and Bikem'n are our allies in war against the Vile Carm'n

Speak a little Chinese for 'em Jack Burton.

Just want to say that I loved this episode and the Papa was a Rodeo mention was for me! I can sing half that album from memory (and it has 69 songs)

So I'm listening to this episode in the car today and I hear Dev read out "AnyaTopp The Owner Op", and I think, "where have I seen that handle recently?" Sure enough, I go through the membership list for my Discord server and I see "AnyaTopp The Owner Op", who happens to be my friend L (who I played mini golf with today), and is also the selfsame Owner Op whose name was so recently announced in Devon's delightful tones. Small world! 😁

I know this is weird to post in Patreon comments, but I don't have a better way to get in touch: if someone has a direct contact for Labour Delenda Est their Discord account has been hacked.

I'm interested in what Devon thinks of The Forbidden Kingdom (2008)

Treated to sexy Nova voice opening 🔥🔥🔥

I love that November referred to Lightning as “Raiden” because Big Trouble In Little China was a big inspiration for Mortal Kombat! Lightning inspired the design for Raiden and David Lo Pan helped to inspire Shang Tsung. When I played Mortal Kombat, I always hoped Jack Burton or Lo Pan would appear as a guest character.

Thank you for that furtive Ultimate Showdown reference Devon, I was daiyun heeigh

If you all ever do a sports season or whatever, I would highly recommend the 1977 film Slap Shot. It is absolutely ripe for discussion about masculinity and gender roles and sexuality in a surprising way for a movie of its era. It's also just a fun watch

Absolutely one of the greatest movies ever, just...80's sensibilities.

Thank you Devon for the Lemon Demon reference. It was bouncing around my head since I heard Lo Pan

Sigh, please do not nuke San Francisco if for no other reason than I would be dead and no longer able to give KJB more money. And yes, the US Navy did perform biological warfare experiments on the citizens of San Francisco in 1950, code-named Operation Sea-Spray, but that’s old news. The US Navy Hunters Point Shipyard humanitarian disaster has been in the news much more recently than that. Look at it this way, there’s no need to nuke San Francisco because the US Navy has been exposing everybody around here to radioactive contamination for decades. If you are still looking to punish rich people and tech bros or at the very least engage in a bit of schadenfreude, then can I interest you in the Millennium Tower? I’ve been complaining about the carpetbagging tech bros ruining San Francisco for–good grief–a little over twenty-five years, which means I am officially yelling at the damn kids to get off my lawn. I’ve also been in the public education and health sector for more twenty-five years, so I could easily rant about AI for a long time, but ugh, I’ve lost that fight. My colleagues have reached the “shrug, avalanche has started, too late for pebbles to vote” and “well, what can we do with this turd” stages. I don’t know how much I can say even with the benefit of a paywalled episode, but ugh, yeah, nobody listens to me when I remind them that the current large-scale statistical models are insanely unethical because there was zero informed participant consent, and we’re supposed to be all about informed participant consent at our public health and education organization, right? Sigh. But on the truly bizarro side of all this, I was shocked to learn I’m part of the Bartz v. Anthropic Settlement, so I should get some peanuts out of it one of these days. I know, right? Who would have thunk it? I’m nobody, but Anthropic still stole my copyrighted work from–GASP–a pirate website.

Uh. I was read twice. I am delighted?

the Dress up in a Real Toga in Bath...

Joseph smith has leveled up: White Women. New skill unlocked: Polygamy. Begin Research Now? Y/N

Here to point out: dont leave your prisioners hogtied and unattended; it is a stress position and they might suffocate

It wasnt over c-town alone it was over all sanfran and as part of mkultra

isnt middle china like PRC China? Yeah! It's emic name is "central flourishing people sharing harmonious nation"

I chose to read this as happening after The Thing and this is part of a wider narrative ark of The Thing trying to help others to, at least in part, attone for her actions. All the while trying to understand humanity, hide her powers and learn how to live in a society and adopting the visual identity and mannerisms of the movies and tv shows she consumes.

I am listening to this on the maglev train in Shanghai eating hawthorn sweets from Chinese Aldi. (Yes they have sctual Aldi in China now and it's good but not really a place to go for the big shop).

The studio forced Carpenter to put the opening scene because they were concerned about audiences needing to be told that the white guy was the hero. Carpenter did it in maybe one of the most malicious compliance ass scenes ever

I realize it doesn't really work for the podcast because it's a TV show, but if you really want to get into the Trucker/Carman dynamic it's a recurring element in The Rockford Files, since most of the tension between Jim Rockford and his dad is that Jim is a Carman while his dad is a Trucker.

My husband who has worked in the trades all his life, and thus has some insider knowledge says that busch light is actually the official beer of drunk driving in America

three transgender people try to remember gone with the wind

I will say this - coming from Aotearoa, I'm doing my damndest to inject some whimsy into the world. I dress as a recovering goth, and when I go to my barber I ask for the "fat pirate" look. A while back, in the introspective mood that liminal spaces put me in, I was walking on a beach and caught myself trying to leave "interesting" tracks in the sand. And I realized that's what I'm trying to do with my life - I'm trying to leave interesting tracks for some other weirdo to come across and marvel at. And I'm OK with that being one of my purposes. The other, of course, is to experience beauty & wonder so that the Universe has my perspective on itself. So yeah, 100% with you on Whimsy Injection. Let a thousand freak flags fly as you walk down a main street! Dress for yourself! Cause as many fetishes to flourish in your footsteps as you can!

Every time Nova references a late 90’s-early 00’s indie folk song I clap like a seal

Wait, with the engine before cab bit is Devon implying the existence of lorrymen as a group that is distinct from truckmen?

Re Abigail mentioning US government biological attack on Chinatown, in case anyone wants to know: https://www.kqed.org/news/12062909/the-true-story-of-the-militarys-secret-1950-san-francisco-biological-weapons-test

MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE WHEN?!?!?!

Abigail, we love you.... Do you think that John Carpenter directed ALIENS?

How the hell did Jack Burton NEVER meet Ash Williams?

"Next time, Gadget! Next time!!!" *slow escalator noises

You realize? We're gonna have to talk about THE CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK

Big Jim Henson mutherphucker is the YEREN. Functionally? The China equivalent of BIGFOOT

Dark star for more John carpenter trucker movies

I am not saying this from a nostalgic point of view, I think this is systemic. Movies are not as good as they were in the 1980s. Effects technology has improved, and that allows for some amazing things. But look at 1986. Big Trouble in Little China. Top Gun. Aliens. Labyrinth. Platoon. 1987 you get Predator and Robocop, Full Metal Jacket and The Untouchables. To name but a few. Plenty of awful, forgotten, movies from that era too of course, but an absurd number of bangers. You don't have to be nostalgic, those movies hold up. Same as you don't have to be nostalgic to love Casablanca, it's still good. There are always great movies around, but the 1980s were absolutely stacked. My pet theory is there is a sweet spot where you get good enough visuals to do anything you want, but not so good that you can just show it without artistry, without movie magic. The monsters still need to be in the dark, your imagination is doing the lifting. I think you get into the 1990s, you get Jurassic Park, where the dinosaur is just fucking >standing there< like a basic bitch and it's all down hill from there.

Nova really just listens to the exact same music I do. Papa Was a Rodeo is a great description of this dude's vibe lol.

Kimono Dragons live about 55 years, on average, whereas hand washing is best for cleaning, or using a delicate machine cycle in cold water with mild detergent.

i asked about this a couple episodes ago and im sooo happy that you really did it. one of my absolute favorits

Opening up the kimono pit so I can put my Geta upside another beautiful trans woman's head before body checking 3 more to the ground and catching an elegantly besilked elbow to the jaw.

I've been in this truck. My tech school bought the truck for its truck driving school. It's got a dent on the roof from a stunt.

This truly is one of the great truckman movies of the salad days of the genre. The 70s were full of them!

Trucker code is best exemplified by the Merle Haggard song Ramblin’ Fever

BORLFF MENTIONED

Wait, does the UK not have Ren Fairs? You guys had an actual Renaissance while Anglo-Americans were busy doing genocide and being insane about religion. Baffling.

This episode was a roller coaster. I've heard of "Big Trouble in Little China", but up until this point knew nothing about it, so everything just comes out of nowhere.

I haven't seen this movie in years, something I need to correct. However there is a section of dialogue that has lived rent free in my head since I watched it the first time: Egg Shen: Black blood of the earth. Jack: Do you mean oil? Egg Shen: I mean black blood of the earth.

Jack is the sidekick, but he doesn't know it.

Is Smokey and The Bandit 2 part of the season of truck?

The TTRPG comparison is quite apt actually, iirc this was one of the inspirations listed in the Vampire the Masquerade sourcebook Kindred of the East

Re dark dancing songs: gaga on the fame and the boss on born jn the reagan's deceptive marketing cam0aign spring to mind. I'm here for you lot, so haven't a scooby which is likelier on a show i don't watch.

If you're looking for a tabletop RPG system that's purpose built for Big Trouble in Little China style games, Feng Shui 2 is heavily influenced by Hong Kong action movies and also this

Abby: No, I made that one up. Me: Sooo, everything else you describe in the podcasts are actually happening in the movies?!?!? I need to watch more movies! (Before most of them just seemed better filtered through you three)

Vivian Leigh didn‘t even wear contact lenses, I don‘t think the kind they‘d need were even invented yet. They just gave her green eyeshadow lol

Also, wait, Jack Burton is a... DEX Barbarian? No wonder he sucks and doesn't accomplish anything in this movie.

Love the moment around 2:20 of Abi getting off a zinger and Devon trying to zang back by saying the exact same thing and Abby pausing for a split second and saying "mhm". Nice moment of letting a friend have one The lawyer at the beginning is Deep Throat from early seasons of x-files. "This is like a table top role-playing game" there's literally a Beholder. And I might have my timelines all swapped around, but isn't the d&d beholder actually inspired by this movie? Or am I thinking of Raiden / mortal Kombat being inspired by this movie? Or am I thinking of Cacodemons from Doom the video game being inspired by DND? Not to be confused with Doom the video game getting their name from Tom Cruise saying that he has doom in his billiard cue case. It is very funny to forget Gone with the Wind, the most famous, long running, influential movie of all time. Pretty sure the gangster in the airport pulls a collapsible baton, not a sword, but there were like six guys. Pretending to work for the phone company is a bit from some Bruce Lee movie. Enter the Dragon or something like that. Bruce Lee puts on a cap and glasses and spies on some criminals.

Listening to these three describe this movie is a truly beautiful thing. They haven't been this excited about a movie in a while. 😆

Nova is love you but a HI point is way more robust than a tec9

Look I'm gonna defend Jack cause pulling a boot knife isn't always as easy as you'd expect! You gotta practice that shit!

I will buy the HECK out of those postcards

Everyday of my life I think "Never drive faster than you can see." The story I heard avout the making of this movie was John Carpenter was trying to make a kung fu movie with an Asian cast and the money was like "Ok but the lead and love interest need to be white." So he made the goofy sidekick character Kurt Russell and centered the movie (but not the plot) centered on him.

Thank you Devon, you are the they/them.

Posting this after completing my pre trip inspection on my 52 ton semi truck, knowing this is going to be the best 90 minutes of my day listening to this.

Thank you Nova, Sleeping Dogs does fucking whip.

john carpenter the goat

I was having a shit day, but then I saw this pop up in my inbox and I was like, “Yes. YES.”

Hang on I thought they'd already done Tomorrow never dies

Hell yes fuck yes I wish I had headphones to listen to this at work. I'm going to feel sad when the episode ends, probably hit replay as soon as I'm done. Thinking about it and realizing that James Hong might be in all of my favorite movies. He's a good villain in a Frank transporter movie called Safe

This is quite possibly the most exciting I’ve ever been about a kjb episode

Fuck yessss