BONUS - DONNER PARTY (PART 1)

I love James’ passion for history.

That Neil Breen comment made me spit my beer out!! YouTube channel Space Ice introduced me to such nonsense and my my...so glad he did as it's absolutely glorious.

I was skimming through the posts looking for something else and saw this as "The Downer Party". I guess it was a bit of a downer.

I'm stitching that on a pillow!!!! 😂

Listening to this and part 2 while painting a wendigo. Sometimes the stars truly align.

Noooooooooooo! Not the pony and the poor wee Belgian man 😭

Thank you for all the additional detail! I’ve read and seen multiple references for this and you have given me so much new information and context. Great job!

I respectfully request that you make this a three part series just because you can!

Acorns on the back of their helmet?

Just as good as The Last Podcast on the Left when they did this story years ago. Good job guys!!

Relistening now for the 2 parter!

Where's part two

She really did a great job today, but she is so scared of other dogs. Yesterday, when she nipped me, it went through my pants and broke skin.

Maybe it was the earlier Blazing Saddles reference but at ~1:15:00 the way James says "idiots" makes me think of Gene Wilder saying "you know... Morons" 😆

Thank you for this episode! I have read and watched so many things on this and you’ve given me so much more insight to what truly happened! You may not think of yourself as a reporter or detective but let’s be fucking real!!! You give more info than any fluffed up documentary and I am grateful

Neil Breen, alien God, traveling on the Oregon Trail with his twin. !

I need the next part 😭😭

And that's why what the US did to its indigenous people is called *genocide* Jimmy!

I can't wait for part 2 !

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Guys, your powers of storytelling are epic, regardless of the topic. You could literally say, “Okay kids, today we’re gonna talk about paint drying,” and I’d be locked in. As a CA native, I had this story unhappily drummed into me by dry textbooks and exhausted teachers (I’m pre-Oregon Trail…the video game, not the actual event 😂). I wish someone had told me this tale with this kind of panache, I’d have paid so much more attention.

The story about the girl’s pony is going to haunt me for the rest of my life. 😩🥺 Why wouldn’t they put it out of its misery?! 😭

Patty Reed’s Doll is on display here. There’s also Donner Elementary in Sacramento. As far as natives being killed by settlors, natives killed each other more than any other group.

If you want to do a really fucked up 'old timey' story look into the Batavia ship wreck and subsequent mutiny. Lots and lots of murder.

Love these history episodes. Anyone interested in learning more about this subject should read a book called the indifferent stars above it’s really good. Also Last Podcast On The Left does a good series on the Donner Party.

Love this episode. I live 11 miles from where this party started on their quest westward.

History nerd here, love this episode and can’t wait for the next one! The guys already do so much, but wouldn’t mind seeing more history content if that’s a direction they’re interested in pursuing.

Not sure if y'all came across it in your research, but the Washoe tribe has stories about encountering the Donner Party. The natives tried to help but the party refused and even shot at them

I wasn’t expecting a Neil Breen reference in a Donner Party episode! #EYESONBREEN

If James taught history classes I would have been so much more interested! Great job tell this story!

That was Borax that they were going through - that soapy, slippery shit. Some older among us may remember "20 Mule team Borax" as a sponsor of "Death Valley Days" in the 1960's. Check it out on your very own tube.

This story is so incredibly fascinating. I can’t believe these people would gamble their fate on an already precarious journey. I’ve now gone on a research deep dive about the Oregon trail. Can’t wait for the next episode!

I’m a direct descendent of Buffalo Bill Cody. My great great grandfather remembers meeting him because he came to stay with family in Yoncalla Oregon because of his wild wild west show. It’s super cringey.

It's crazy James say "you feel like you're in the middle of the ocean" because that's exactly how it's described in Empire of The Summer Moon.

Rode my bike to the top of Donner Pass right after listening to this episode. Wouldn't want to be on that s**t during the winter.

I'm dyyyying for part 2 😅

Love that you guys are covering this.

One of my favorite bonus episodes in a while. Please do more history!

This is why I love these guys and podcast. Not only do you get an entertaining show, but also get a history lesson every now and then! James loves to say how he’s an idiot because he dropped out of high school. But he’s actually REALLY smart. He’s a great paralegal, and he is a huge history buff! He’s really smart!

Even the PONY 🐴🐎 is named William (Billy) lol 1 name, that's all you get

Been to Alco Springs quite a few times, it's in Northern Kansas, kind of hard to get to down a dirt road. They found her grave marker a long time ago but then they lost it, the whole area is grown over by trees

Wow! Mind. Blow. Have known about the Donner party forever - but as it turned out, I didn’t know shit 💩 Great job, both James and Jimmie! James - for your impeccable research, and Jimmie for all of your spot on reactions and helpful insights to how unforgiving the West actually is. I have lived for years in both California and Idaho. The desert is NO JOKE! I live in Tennessee now and these people have no idea what a desert really is. They actually want to MOVE THERE!! Um no

Hey James, what’s the name of the book you used for this? My college professor let me borrow a vhs tape of a documentary on this but I want to read the book.

I LOVE that they're doing this story and doing all the research so we can just be educated and entertained by this crazy piece of history.

Someone should make an Oregon Trail Pimp My Wagon edition.

I can't stop thinking of the independent Film by South Park creator Trey Parker. Cannibal The Musical 1993. When hearing this Story.

This was great 😃

I cannot believe you referenced Neil Breen, James! I’m surprised I didn’t spontaneously combust. Holy shit.😂😂😂😑 I would LOVE for yall to do a bonus on one of his…ahem….”movies”.

Hell yes!!!

Yes, yes, yes!! I have commented a couple of times how you guys should revisit big stories that have already been told. I’m drawn to this because I already know a little bit about the story. Even if I know a lot about the story, it’s still extra interesting when you guys dissect it. Keep up the good work.

I'm so glad you're doing this story. I've only heard a very small description about them. Thanks for broadening out the whole story.

I brought barbecue sauce if anyone needs some ...

I hated history in high school, but if these two had been teaching it, I probably would have passed! 😃 😀 Great show! Looking forward to part 2.

First time hearing the question of “What if her taint tore? “ 😂

Even if they where that violent it be justified

I married into the Breens. It's really cool if you travel to San Juan Bautista, CA, the house across the street from the Mission there is the Castro-Breen Adobe. If you are a Breen, you get a free tour and get to go to the rooms upstairs. If you have an infant Breen you can take a picture of your baby in the Breen cradle.

Call me pragmatic, or a wimp, or both, but I don't just love suffering. And my survival instinct isn't that strong, I guess. All that is to say that (unless I had children to keep alive, ofc) I would have volunteered to hop in that nice stew pot the minute I could no longer get warm anymore. Like, eat this in memory of me, y'all, I'm OUT.

I lived in the Rocky’s of North Western Colorado for 11 years. I can confirm, there are a multitude of free “sweet” springs accessible to those willing to use them. Some of them just a metal pipe sticking out of the ground.

I'm so glad you guys finally covered this. James and Jimmie died from dysentery!

"They had banked their fate on an unreliable man." Gurl, been there.

Capitalism and greed killed these people

I don't wish to add to James and Jimmie's already full podcast plate, but goddamn I need them to host a weird shit of history podcast. This is how history should be taught!

The historical deep dives are some of my favorite episodes. I can't wait for Part 2!

There is a fictional horror based on this called The Hunger by Alma Katsu, it’s a really good book and worth a read

I'm from the Willamette Valley, aka the end of the Oregon Trail and I gotta admit, it is nice here. There's places in central and eastern Oregon where you can still see the ruts from old wagon wheels. Also, there's a great movie based on a true story called Meek's Cutoff - back in the day the wagon trains would hire a guide to show them the way to go on the Oregon Trail. This group hired a guy who had no idea what he was doing. It's a *wild* story (and a cool movie filmed here in Oregon!) Speaking of the Astors, Astoria (a city up on the Oregon Coast) is named for them.

If anyone wants more information on The Donner Party, The Indifferent Stars Above is a FANTASTIC book. It’s the scariest, most deeply harrowing book I’ve ever read and it’s all nonfiction

I had to buy the Oregon trail on steam after listening to this. I’m excited to hear part 2 in a few weeks!

Also, two great books about the Donner Party and if you’re interested in how and why people of that era nearly decimated our Buffalo populations back then. - The Indifferent Stars Above by Daniel J. Brown - The Hide Hunters (1865 - 1883) by Steven Rinella

Buffalo Bill Cody (William F. Cody) did kill enormous numbers of buffalo. He got the nickname “Buffalo Bill” after working as a commercial hunter in 1867–68, supplying buffalo meat to railroad construction crews. He later claimed to have killed 4,280 buffalo in about 18 months. However, there’s not good evidence that Cody himself was killing buffalo specifically to starve Native Americans. His documented motivation during his famous buffalo-hunting period was supplying meat to railroad workers and earning money.

James and Jimmie should just start a history podcast. This was fantastic, and I can’t wait for part two.

This episode reminded me that I would LOVE if you guys did an episode about the Mountain Meadows Massacre in 1857. I saw it first in American Primeval on Netflix and insane can't even begin to describe it.

Is there an episode 2?

I love this show! Thank you James for all your work on the Donner series 💕 and to Jimmie for the incredible support with hilarious commentary.

I started playing the original Oregon Trail as an elementary school kid, on a GIANT tower PC with a massively heavy screen unit. In the family computer room, circa 1998. It was once of only a few games I was allowed to play - the other ones? OBVIOUSLY, Where in Time is Carmen San Diego and Where in the World is Carmen San Diego. Also, Myst - which my literal genius grandfather gave me at like, age 7, so that one took me a few years to figure out. It’s so sad the younger generations can’t appreciate the (virtual) risks of the Trail 😂 Dysentery, runaway ox, and oh the broken legs and axels.

Let's keep a family size bottle of Frank's Red Hot in the survival kits from now 🤣

Incredible story. You bring it to life

Are yall doing a virtual live show for Halloween this year?! ❤️

I just finished reading The Indifferent Stars Above. Great retelling of the story.

If you want some native book recommendations (are also on audible) war along the Wabash, 38 nooses, the journey of crazy horse, they called me uncivilized.

1,,,¾3.11+

Ive worked for one of the first families to establish themselves in NE wyoming. I would guide trail rides 15+ miles into the bighorns. True middle of no where and most of the trails are just suggestions. You truly have to know where you have to go, without getting the trail mixed up with elk trails. If you end up on an elk trail, you risk killing you and your horses lol lots of those trails end up going off cliffs. Theres people who use pack horses in even more dangerous areas with 10 or so horses/mules to get supplies to hunting camps. Its really rewarding to be able to navigate inside mountain ranges safely with peoples lives relying on you. Its a cool feeling haha

Dan Cummins also did a Donner Party episode of Timesuck a few years ago and he did a deep dive and made it pretty funny given the subject matter, Dan’s podcast is also how I found Crime in Sports

The mountain Meadows massacre is another good story. It’s about the families from Arkansas that got massacred in Utah by the Mormons and Indians. I live in Harrison, Arkansas, and every year they do an actual wagon train of descendants of the families that lived traveling across country in wagon trains. To memorialize the people that were killed it’s a pretty interesting story. You should look that one up. It was pretty horrific. I’ve never heard about it until we moved out here to Arkansas. There is a memorial about it at the courthouse here in Harrison, Arkansas, where I live.

The soapy slimy shit is dead fish under the crust - they haven't turned into oil yet so you can't run your car on it ....

Northern Ireland….heeeey!!!! A local guy!!! Those guys were fucked from the kick-off 🤣😂

I loved this episode! So much shit I didn't know. Thx guys

I lived in The Dalles Oregon for over 10 years. My husband has family plots (circa 1880’s) at the Odd Fellows Cemetery on Cherry Heights Road. His great-great grandparents were pioneers on the Oregon Trail and settled in Maupin Oregon, 45 miles outside The Dalles on the Deschutes River. My daughter and I went to look around the older part of the cemetery when we stumbled on the plot of Naomi Levina Pike Mitchell Schenck, a survivor of the Donner party. Naomi was 2 years old when she was on the trail. She lost most of her family along the way. Naomi and her baby sister were abandoned by their mom when she left with a party looking for help after getting snowed in. After Naomi was rescued she was taken to California. She came to The Dalles Oregon later on and lived a fulfilling life, passing away at the age of 90. There’s some very interesting articles about her and her life.

The Great Salt Lake is both beautiful and fccking terrifying. I’ve been swimming (as much as one can swim in it; it’s shallow so you’re really just sitting or floating) in it. It was amazing. You feel like being on a cloud while inside a cloud because the landscape is flat and white like glass. Then the gnats swarm around your head. And the reflection of the sky starts burning your eyes. And you make the long sandy trek back through and up and down and around to where you left your car. And you regret the crusty ashy condition of your skin and the many gnats you ate. And I mostly KNEW what I was getting into when I went. Imagining rolling up on this after thinking “this will be easier than lush, tree covered Idaho” … I’d be mad af and heartbroken.

I grew up in Northern, CA. In 4th grade it’s part of CA curriculum to learn about this and I’m still traumatized. #neverforgetPatty’sDoll

I live in Springfield and Abe Lincoln was asked to join the party, but he declined because Mary Todd Lincoln was pregnant and he was just starting out with his political career. This plaque is on the grounds of the Old State Capitol plaza. https://imgur.com/a/FboKWW9 SangamonLink's entry on the Donner Party. https://sangamoncountyhistory.org/donner-party/ And if y'all come to Springfield, I'll treat you to a horseshoe and it has nothing to do with actual horseshoes.

I'm only 22 minutes in but they just said Sarah is buried at Alcove Spring; I've been there so many times. My hometown is there! And I saw the band Kansas play a concert at Alcove Spring about 7 years ago lol. It is a popular park now!

My old man didn’t know anything about this for 50 years until he met me. How?!?!?!

Fabulous

🍒🎉