May 29, 2026

Space-ically feat. Cory Doctorow

We’ve invited friend of the show Cory Doctorow back to discuss the matryoshka doll of Elon Musk’s corporate money-losing endeavours. We also had a chance to discuss that short story in Granta. You know, the one.

Check out Cory’s work (and upcoming books!) here!

RILEY ALERT Check out No Gods, No Mayors here!

HUSSEIN ALERT Check out 10k Posts here!

MILO ALERT Check out Milo's tour dates here:
https://www.miloedwards.co.uk/liveshows

NATE ALERT Lions Led By Donkeys will be performing live in London on 29th May and you can get tickets here! Also, Nate's band Second Homes has just released their debut album, which includes the song used in this episode’s outro, and you can stream it for free here!

Comments (72)

E
Ester Daniel Ytterbrink · June 16, 2026

Doesn’t everyone apologize to furniture when walking into them?

B
Blue Myself · June 3, 2026

“Wet Sacking” sounds like the Visigoths showing up in Seattle.

A
Amy Scott · June 3, 2026

It's funny how Musks antics sound more and more like something you'd see in a Bond movie 🙄

M
Man2quilla · June 2, 2026

Lithium ion batteries can go in the overhead, but not in your checked bags since they're inaccessible if something happens

J
Josep C. · June 2, 2026

Just use the kimchi jars to propel a datacenter to space. Nutrition and propulsion. Easy.

M
McZac · June 1, 2026

Ummmm akshually ethanol is regular alcohol I think Nate meant methanol

-
-Kris- · June 1, 2026

Regarding the in-orbit manufacturing idea, this is probably referring to https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/macguffinite.php#id--MacGuffinite--Manufacturing , which says "well IF there was some product that for some reason could ONLY be manufactured in free fall, and IF that hypothetical product was so useful or important that we just couldn't find an alternative or do without (even though we have until now), well then that would justify the monumental costs of putting anything up there." And yeah, sure, IF. But serious space nerds like the ones behind the Atomic Rockets site are well aware that there is neither currently nor forseeably ANY profit-based or survival-based reason to go to space. Any colonization of the solar system would require the invention of fully autonomous self-replicating robot factories, and extremely hypothetical launch structures measuring thousands to tens of thousands of kilometers in size, because doing it by rocket is like trying to replace all freight currently moved by container ship and rail with just planes and helicopters

e
etienne · June 3, 2026

yeah it's white science from Factorio

-
-Kris- · June 1, 2026

Regarding spacecraft thermal management systems, yes you can keep it cool with radiators, and yes there are ideas for radiators that can handle more heat for less weight. The problem is, much like the wire vs radio comparison, that this can only ever be a MUCH worse version of the normal ground equivalent. The only problem putting data centers in orbit could ever "solve" is needing to invent more demand for SpaceX launches, the same as Starlink. Designing and placing something in orbit is never cheaper than land rights and construction on the ground.

M
Meryl is not a Vampire · May 31, 2026

Talking about middle Eastern goddesses. Astarott/Astarte was Canaanite goddess that could shift between a male or female presentation. When the Hebrews turned her into the demon she was misgendered and referred to as only in the masculine and this continued into the medieval period but was worshiped by women in the middle ages who were seeking knowledge that was forbidden to them by the church.

S
Sword of Eos · May 31, 2026

Why do I listen to this podcast so I can get angry about things I can't affect

P
Paul Natsuo Kishimoto · May 31, 2026

For me, the answer is less time spent fumbling about for the precise way in which to be most angry about each thing 🙃

e
etienne · May 31, 2026

AI Satellite is something from Factorio. I hate when our decision makers start to talk like they're in Factorio

D
Daye Gordon · May 31, 2026

As the guy who works maintenance in the big marijuana factory; the "WiFi water pipe via humidifier and dehumidifier" exists and it's a maintenance nightmare. I've seen molds that would make lesser men weep Oh it dries the weed btw that's what the WiFi water pipe does

L
Leo Fie · May 31, 2026

I'm generally very adamant that just because something is bad, doesn't mean it's gen AI. Some people are just bad at writing. There are no tells.

m
meta · May 31, 2026

God this story reminds me of A Spear Cuts through Water; like these words are individually lovely but put together they are just fog

H
Horse Badorties · May 31, 2026

Hussein- go to a winemaker/beerbrewer shop and buy a damn bubbler cork, I beg you

V
Vast and Trunkless · May 31, 2026

Ending up on a list because you keep forgetting to burp your kimchi.

M
Mike Brockett · May 30, 2026

Cory has such insightful things to say about a wide variety of topics, he's a top-tier guest

R
Roger Peet · May 30, 2026

To the tune of " MacArthur Park"

J
Jordyn Clementi · May 30, 2026

The writing... it's like if Ocean Vuong had a TBI

D
DrNerdBoi · May 30, 2026

umm actually CalPERS is for CA State employees (CalFires, CDT, Caltrans, ect), while teachers in CA are technically employed by the districts and have a similar pension system called CalSTRS

H
Horse Badorties · May 30, 2026

Calpers has a long history of trash investments.

C
Cate Kneale · May 30, 2026

The Granta piece reminds me of the writing of Olivia Nuzzi but at least I didn't have to think about anyone dry-humping RFK Jr's denim-clad crotch.

J
Jermy · May 30, 2026

I will never stop using em dashes

T
Tyler · May 30, 2026

For November, most haunting line in literature that sticks with me and by Australian author Peter Carey: A man who is tasked to look after horses drowns them when promised a holiday "They bumped softly together like bad dreams in a basin" Can't ai that but also track down the short story - 'life and death in the southside pavilion"

E
Elsie Hupp · May 30, 2026

The difference between the SpaceX IPO and the WeWork IPO is that every investor in the SpaceX IPO will subsequently give birth to a child of Elon Musk, whereas every investor in the WeWork IPO ended up getting an abortion.

E
Elsie Hupp · May 30, 2026

“Mommy, why does our laundry soap have a picture of a jiggling-boobed anime girl named MechaHitler on the label?” “Oh, people are so politically correct these days… that’s from back when the Starlink Realty Trust owned Colgate-Palmolive. It’s a part of our cultural heritage now.”

U
Universally Idiotic · May 30, 2026

I love that Riley went "A." and then followed it up with "second of all"

I
Isaac · May 30, 2026

They filled Blue Origin with kimchi

P
Pat Z · May 29, 2026

In all the talk about the data centers in space, nobody talks about the other big problem: radiation. They have to send laptops to the ISS by the dozen because the radiation they get even in the habitable shielded environment of the station, they get cooked by ionizing and particle radiation. Most of the flagship rovers on mars and shit run on the equivalent of a late 90’s PC because of all the extra stuff they have to do to make the processors work in an environment with radiation. One of those ways is literally to make the transistors larger so it takes more charge to flip a bit, and they last longer before the particles literally destroy the parts of the transistors. Even if they could cool the data centers in space, whatever 3 nm top-of-the-line GPUs the send up there are going to be destroyed in a matter of months.

C
Cat Mara · May 30, 2026

Yes, I’ve been wondering about this too! Radiation-hardened CPUs, memory chips, etc. tend to run several generations behind their ground-based consumer equivalents, because the smaller the features are on the chip, the more likely an impact by a high-energy particle is to cause it to flip states or to be destroyed completely. Elon Musk: don’t worry about it

r
rakslice · May 29, 2026

It's ironic hearing this discussion of a government potentially having to bail out an industry not just one time but on an ongoing basis because it likes its service too much, happening as it is adjacent to an IPO for SpaceX, because it immediately makes me think of 1991's Iridium Inc. -- and if you know that example, what happens is not a "bailout", it's that a group of government interests shows up on the last day of the bankruptcy auction and buys the thing for three tenths of a cent on the original investors' dollar to run primarily for their own use

r
rakslice · May 29, 2026

like the "we are the exit liquidity" mainstream investors being left holding a bag with a matryoshka of turds that all the inner dolls are unexpectedly missing from is the endlessly reusable archetypal part of this story; a bailout is a thing that only happens for political reasons if preserving the value of the investment or preserving the jobs etc. is important politically

S
Syd · May 29, 2026

Find a Way to Hate It is such a banger album!! everyone should get it!! it's kinda like indie electronic rock from the late 2000s grew up and got more mature and more talented

S
Sian Phillips · May 29, 2026

As an astrophysicist who's been to conferences with sessions about What The Heck Do We Do About Starlink, that section was cathartic... thanks gang

N
Noblese Oblahaj · May 29, 2026

My favorite podcast, Treacherous Fermentation

R
Rose · May 29, 2026

November needs to step away from the Lathe with that bit about how elon is gonna be the only one with launch capability remaining

J
James · May 29, 2026

Reading that kind of AI prose makes me sympathise with the Scramblers.

j
josh plays drums · May 29, 2026

I fear im the cheap cousin

A
Anon22 · May 29, 2026

50:00~ what's the difference between a cutlass and a machete? as far as I'm aware it's just the handguard; idk seems like nitpicking;

A
A Shade In Shades · May 29, 2026

I was about to give some sort of smarmy reply to this comment (sorry). But I checked and it turns out cutlass is actually the Caribean English word for what is a machete in British English. Given that the author is Trinidadian it might well have been an intentional choice. I think this is the "knowing someone once cheated on an essay" effect of AI creative writing. It leaves a lingering doubt on what the author's actual input was.

S
Sabrina Bee · May 29, 2026

May I introduce the critique group to (alleged) ai extravaganza 'Shy Girl'? An allegation so strong the book got it's trad publishing deal cancelled weeks before release.

A
A Shade In Shades · May 29, 2026

"Come with us....or you can say goodbye to courage's cheap cousin"

M
Majestic Affect · May 29, 2026

Someone forgot to burb the kimchi on New Glen last night.

T
The Evil Cub · May 29, 2026

Cory is an amazing writing teacher. I was privileged to be his student at Clarion (an astonishing 21 years ago this summer)

H
Huskiii · May 29, 2026

The hilarious part being that Space-X's actual rocketry division is the only part of Musk's whole empire that actually makes sense and provides any utility to society. The Falcon-9 is genuinely an impressive and useful piece of launch hardware, and Starship is a gamble, but closer than this podcast gives it credit for to actually being viable for at least taking large payloads to orbit... I'm not giving Musk credit, but the engineers employed at Space-X's aerospace and propulsion divisions absolutely deserve recognition for serious leaps and bounds in spaceflight technology. They're delusional if they wanna get a million people on mars in the next couple decades. At best you maybe get a manned mission to visit Mars in my lifetime maybe. And thats a big maybe. There are still massive engineering problems to solve if you want to do that.

W
Wawawawa · May 29, 2026

There's an excellent breakdown on Youtube by a space nerd called Pressure-Fed Astronaut on why Starship won't provide meaningful utility if it works. (If Elon put his space money where his space mouth is when he was in chud government and lobbied for a life extension for the ISS, or a serious expansion to NASA, or rapprochement with the Chinese space program, there would be quite some money to be made with a superheavy launcher, but he's an idiot, so he did the opposite of all of those things.) I've hocked it here before because it's really quite good. I recommend watching it. Falcon 9's quite good though yeah.

k
kiwi · May 29, 2026

I've seen SO many articles discussing the concept of data centers in space that never once mention the thermodynamics of how moving heat into a vacuum is literally the least efficient method of heat dissipation imaginable. Never gonna happen, but billions and billions of dollars will change hands pretending it's even remotely viable.

G
Gil the Gilded Dragon · May 29, 2026

among my rolls of tinfoil is the idea that the USSR had developed information technologies which were discretely privatized and folded into the 90s tech boom narrative of End of History and techno capitalist optimism. If this notion, this intuition, of mine is true, could it be that amongst those techne which were made to build this cyberspace and social media, was a sort of poison pill to capitalism. an algorithm which some 1980s chainsmoking scientist imagined that would unravel capitalism, but it needed to be disguised, hidden into the union's central planning. It would, he knew, unravel the ussr too, but the union was not the workers, the worker would survive and rediscover socialism. Tetris, he'd call it.

G
George Toner · May 30, 2026

Gil I say this from the bottom of my heart: you've made sense before so I read the whole damned paragraph No further comment

S
Sword Through Your Window · May 29, 2026

i think kim stanley robinson should be allowed to beat elon musk with lightweight magnesium alloy hammers

A
Athena Von Tharsis · May 29, 2026

I very much appreciate this comment.

H
Harry Evans · May 29, 2026

It's beautiful how the episode about a failing space company drops on the same day that an Amazon rocket explodes on launch.

S
Sword Through Your Window · May 29, 2026

kimchi fermentation too strong, swag too different

J
Jacob King · May 29, 2026

I’m interested in the motivation of the Granta author. He seems to be an AI true believer but this is basically plagiarism which typically has a psychological dimension. My advice would be to claim it’s a hoax to expose the low standards of the Commonwealth Writers Prize.

J
James Rule · May 29, 2026

I'm always shocked that the Internet providers in Canada, a pair of monopolies price fixing and are general trash, are not even close to the bottom the barrel.

N
Nemo · May 29, 2026

Wet sacking ALWAYS understands the assignment

L
Larketto · May 29, 2026

48:00 The tail end of the USSR was even funnier when you could start a private business, buying materials from the state-owned enterprises for the state-guaranteed prices and then sell them internationally. Then you buy cheap consumer goods overseas and sell them for premium in the USSR.

J
JadeP · May 29, 2026

Happy birthday to me

b
bobbler42 · May 29, 2026

Re kimchigate: i do sauerkraut in mason jars with pickle pipes. No bangs, it sometimes bubbles over, but nothing kitchen roll on the surface can't handle.

M
Maria Hayward · May 29, 2026

Wanting to hear November & Cory banter was wot got me to hit the Patreon thingo

M
Maria Hayward · May 29, 2026

Just can’t find the rss link to pop it into my Apple pod app

C
Carley They/Themsen · May 29, 2026

ChatGPT and 12 year old me who got really into pirates share one common obsession with cutlasses

k
kiwi · May 29, 2026

Curved. Swords.

S
Shiv · May 29, 2026

Cory got me reading that homeopathic shit that makes you feel well, nothing

S
Shiv · May 29, 2026

TIL E.L. Doctorow is no relation!

Z
Z · May 29, 2026

To the Brent Cross shopping center Rode a stranger one fine day Hardly spoke to folks around him Didn't have too much to say No one dares to ask his business No one dared to make a slip For the stranger there among them Had a big jar in his fridge Big jar in his friiidge It was early in the morning When he rode into the town He came through Mark's and Spencer's Slowly looking all around "There's some guy in lingerie" Came the whisper from each lip And he's here to do some business With a big jar in his fridge Big jar in his friiiiidge

A
A Shade In Shades · May 29, 2026

In this shop there was an arsehole By the name of Terfy Red Many clerks had tried to serve him And that many clerks were gone He was vicious and a sadist Though a youth of fourty-eight And the views upon his rage post Numbered one and nineteen more One and nineteen more

G
George Toner · May 29, 2026

This week I saw a guy get stabbed, was woken up by two hundred pro-war 'Iranian' 'monarchists' protesting outside the library using speeches copied verbatim from those made to American Mormon/Evangelical college students up to and including hailing Trump and liberty on campus (baffling the bystanders), colesworths tripled the price of iced tea, I can't get biltong, I met an Asian Mancunian who happily paid three hundred dollars to see Jimmy Carr live because he's so edgy and humble but has never heard of Milo and thinks Nish Kumar is a bit bougie and full of himself, and there are four Trashfuture podcasts none of which have Milo And Milo now comes in smaller cans. The drink, presumably not the man, I neither know nor want to his preferences re:cans

G
George Toner · May 30, 2026

And I quote (because this is at least the third time they've done this) "you are students at Liberty University" before going off on a bloodcurdling rant about how violence and vengeance is justified and righteous, directly quoting a speech made to an Evangelical end-times campus in Lynchburg Virginia It did throw my Mexican chess opponent off his game enough that it was kind of close even though he was way better than me, so he did ask me for dating advice after he beat me (she probably is literally just busy, she beat him at boardgames night and they had a witty repartee going). It's like, dude, you've got game you just need to stop being intimidated. It's just people calling for violence in the street thirty metres away/the smartest person you've ever met thinking you're cute, it's not THAT scary

A
Al · May 29, 2026

Bonus