EARLY EPISODE: The Battle of Beecher Island
In the aftermath of the Sand Creek Massacre, the traditional governance of the Cheyenne people fracture, the pro-peace chiefs lose power, and warrior societies promise revenge against the settlers and military for their crimes.
SOURCES:
Norris, David. Desperate Last Stand At Beecher Island. Military Heritage. August 2012. Volume 14, No 2.
Mort, Terry. Cheyenne Summer. The Battle of Beecher Island: A History
Yenne, Bill. The Indian Wars: The Campaign for the American West
Monnett, John. The Battle of Beecher Island and the Indian War of 1867- 1869
Grinnell, George. Bent, George. The Fighting Cheyennes.
Grinnell, George. Bent, George. The Cheyenne Indians: Their History and Lifeways.
https://the-past.com/feature/looking-death-in-the-face-the-battle-for-beecher-island-september-1868/
Comments (36)
@ 1:00:00 no one got a mustang joke in??
My family is Mormon, they do indeed suck
Amazing name.
My very first credit card purchase was a PS1. I'm sure that the fact that I have no credit rating now and live debt free is not related at all.
holy shit tak and the power of juju
Imagine slowly rotating Joe in your mind
ye olde great plains wagner
Also I think for anyone who hasn’t been, think of the most vast, miserable and exposed expanse of land you can imagine. Eastern Kansas and western Colorado is a terrifying place to imagine traversing during inclement conditions and or pursual. Spent a lot of time driving I-70/milling about there and it is kind of mind blowing to imagine the extent of suffering people incurred or exacted on others in this place. The ‘winter’ tactics the government ends up using against native peoples considering this is diabolical. Starving in a sea of sun, endless horizon and choking wind.
Joe. Can you please one day do a bleeding Kansas/Missouri border war episode or two. It is so full of martyrs, evil freaks and really interesting/prescient themes. I guarantee it would make for something interesting.
I second this.
Xenogears is my answer too, but it’s kind of coincidental it’s brought up in the context of “not FF7” because it was originally written as a potential script FOR FF7. Tom, if you haven’t played look into it. It involves a lot of Freudian/Jungian themes, and brings in biblical creation. Elements of Soylent Green. The BEST fucking OST. I cheered when I heard Joe mention it… people in their cars turned to look at me at the stoplight.
The Mega Man X series was also really good from the 90s. I recommend Joe and everyone check them out and they've been emulated forever
1 through 4. The rest are okay and the last 2 are ...they exist
I’m from Kansas. Graduated like 15 years ago (oh) Tbh, I don’t think they cover it well here. I do recall they used the term massacre and not battle, so that’s good. But I don’t think it’s covered nearly enough. We do have a lot of native stuff here tho, like a big center and Wichita’s big image or whatever (that we have statues of literally all over) is of a native
Ratchet and Clank! So good
Tom, it's "The Unholy War" you're thinking of. I loved that game. Also all the kamikaze dudes had hilariously chud-coded names like bubba and butch and shit.
I cant help but to wonder if the majority of people who do not want immigrants here are worried they are going to do to us what we did to the native Americans. That is honestly the only thing I can think of. Fear. Which makes it more guilt than anything. White people are weird.
Does anyone remember the book Tom recommended thats not blood meridian?
The road ?
Im seconding the fact that as a lifelong white Kansas resident who is surrounded by multiple cities named after local tribes, we don’t even learn that those names belong to them. Its so totally lost in day to day culture and education that anything was here. Finding this podcast years ago was my first in to learning that history. So thank you for that. The information is out there, but you have to search for it and know that theres missing info to look for in the first place. It’s information that makes people very uncomfortable and will never just find it’s way into your daily life and isn’t taught in local schools (in my personal experience) Love the show and I think you all do amazing work here
F for Ireland banning Kratom.
Big episode for Hedberg Enjoyers
I used to listen to LLBD. I still do, but I used to, too!
As a white person from Kansas my experience with Native history was basically nonexistent in K-12 education. It’s been while but when I was in middle school Kansas history was a required class. The curriculum spent a lot of time talking about Free-Staters, Kansas Nebraska Act, John Brown and his Jayhawkers then just jumped straight to Carrie A. Nation and the temperance movement. My first actual experience with real Native history was in college but I definitely had to seek it out. Fortunately enough I made some friends who went to Haskell Indian Nation University in Lawrence, KS. They taught me a lot about their own personal experiences growing up as a Native American (Blood Quantum being a fucked up part of it) and Indian Tacos. Haskell itself does a good job at depicting the modern day experiences for Native Americans. It’s clearly very underfunded and lacks a lot of the resources that students at other universities would get, but it has a vibrant, devoted community trying to keep the culture and passion alive. A lot of things about Kansas could be much better but glimmers of truth are out there, Kansans just need to find them.
I’m from New Jersey and I’d say when I went to elementary school in the mid-late 2000’s it was slightly better. I remember us having a whole unit on Native American history. My 2nd grade teacher had us recreate some sort of plains native bear ceremony and do a project on a group of Native Americans from anywhere in the Americas. But even still I remember reading things that made it seem like the natives were the bad guys at worst and “just in the way” at best. We learned a little Native American history in middle school when we learned New Jersey history and we learned all about the Lenape. Honestly, it wasn’t until I got to college and took a Native American history class did I actually get a decent overview of Native American history. I was scheduled to present at a conference my senior year my college was hosting on a paper I wrote on the influences of Britain’s colonial policy in Ireland on American Indian policy. Unfortunately, covid happened and it never happened.
One of the early nicknames for the Spencer Carbine was the Beecher Bible, cause Beecher (the uncle) use to send crates of them to abolitionists out west but would label them “bibles” to prevent them getting caught by the authorities
In that part of the country "blowing clouds" definitely refers specifically to meth
Mormons can have stimulants. They can have ephedra tea, just not coffee, black tea, or green tea. They can also have caffeine from like soda. The dietary restrictions are dumb and have no logical consistency bound by medical science
As a plains native, you all are one of the few, if not the only, non-natives I trust to speak about our peoples in a fair and reasonable way that doesn't do weird noble savage shit but also is real about the violence and horrors we've faced. However, I do want to mention here, we Lakhota are actually part of the overall oceti sakowin (pronounced Oh-Chay-dee, where the d sound is between a d and a t sound. Like a super soft t, and Sah-Koh-Wee), legally called the Sioux. Many elders consider themselves Sioux Indians, but largely, the name we call ourselves is the oceti. Sioux derives from a rival tribes' term for 'snake' (if there are Nish people reading this, I know what you did.) and is a bastardization of that from the perfidious Fr*nch. The oceti sakowin consist of the Lakhota tribes, the Dakhota tribes, and the Nakhota tribes, though the Nakhota technically split off from us long enough ago that their languages are mutually unintelligible to ours. Just wanted to point this out since you mentioned wanting to do a series on the plains peoples at a later date! Think of it like an umbrella over us, kind of like how gay as an umbrella term can represent any other sexuality under it, the Sioux denotes the Lakhota and our other familial tribes. So not two different entities, which is kind of how it sounded in the ep. Love you all much! Thank you so much for consistently validating my trust in your podcast and making me smile along with the jokes, even when the topic is. Well. Y'know.
I miss Francis.
In North America, they are commonly called Blinders. Old, old timers will know what a blinker is. Very few of them left.
Blinkers in New Zealand (although I don't think anyone would be confused by the term blinders), so it's probably a UK + Antipodean thing.
Andrew Jackson Jihad was such a striking name that makes you stop and go, "Yep. That's pretty apt."
There’s one other good confederate veteran. His name was Albert Parsons, he was an early socialist organizer who joined the confederates at 14. He later called it “a racist war fought on behalf of the land owning class”. He was executed for his role in the haymarket affair. His wife Lucy was a former slave who went on to help establish the IWW.
Upper peninsula doesn't really belong to Michigan, once the NATO disintegration war comes it will be rightfully claimed as part of greater Finland. Oxycodone will be replaced with buprenorphine. Mention of Upper peninsula can draw out the Finns almost as quickly as mention of Vyborg
To be fair on the US not adopting the Spencer Rifle for the civil war: It should be kept in mind that US didn’t adopt a rifled-musket until 1855, and complete testing of it wouldn’t be completed until 1859. By the time of the civil war the US was still fielding large quantities of smoothbore muskets, and even those troops who had rifled firearms were not adequately trained on them (observers of Bull Run recall seeing soldiers shooting at a near 45 degree angle upwards into the sky.) The Army was smaller and less funded at the time so adopting the Spencer rifle as a standard infantry weapon was unrealistic. However it would have been great had they used it more extensively in specialist units.