EARLY EPISODE: The Sand Creek Massacre
*correction. Several Medals of Honor have been revoked. Specifically in 1917. This had nothing to do with conduct but rather a changing of criteria of what was considered worthy of the medal.
US Forces lie to the people of the Great Plains, convince them they are under the protection of the US government for the purpose of negotiations and commit a crime so horrible that it forces congress to investigate.
SOURCES:
Grinnell, George. Bent, George. The Fighting Cheyennes.
Grinnell, George. Bent, George. The Cheyenne Indians: Their History and Lifeways.
Hatch, Thom (2004). Black Kettle: The Chief Who Sought Peace But Found War.
Hoig, Stan (1977). The Sand Creek Massacre.
Hoig, Stan (1980). The Peace Chiefs of the Cheyenne
Brown, Dee. Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West
Bensing, Tom. Silas Soule: A Short Eventful Life of Moral Courage.
Report of the US Congress Joint Committee On The Conduct of the War. 1865. https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=moa;idno=ABY3709.0003.001;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;cc=moa
Comments (62)
I know I am late to this episode, but I'm new. I decided that I am going to try to cover the end of my 8th grade year in history by adding the story of Soule to my class.
Imagine saying a entire country must be destroyed because the crimes of a handful of me 150 plus years ago. We get it you hate America but you love our money.
His last name is pronounced Soo-LAY. I work with one of his descendants. Both gentlemen are stand up guys!
Need Silas Soule moral patches
Silas Soule is in the Homie HOF for sure.
Wait, does this mean we're gonna get Red Cloud's war and the Fetterman fight?
If I can't robo-trip in a country, it's a dystopia. It's a very simple criteria.
Kinda surprised that no one mentioned that Silas Soule was a complete smokeshow. Of course you're going to follow that mans orders. No one wants to disappoint the only handsome man they've probably ever seen in their lives.
Incorrect, a medal of honor was revoked, it's for the woman who got one during the Civil War
Seeing the title I thought "OMG, are we gonna talk about one of the most based Americans who ever lived?" As soon as Silas Soule was metioned I pumped my fist in the air and shouted "YESSS!!!" I was walking down a public sidewalk with lots of folks around so they might have thought me mad.
“He sold himself out for political gain,” should be the national motto for these United States.
Avalanche rules, red wings drool
Red wings still suck
Denver Propaganda. LGRW
Silas Soule rests at Riverside in Denver, still remembered by the Cheyanne and in Denver.
When I saw you were doing this Joe, I prayed you'd mention my man Silas Soule, who's a star of Chapter 4 of my book (the thread goes from p. 159 to 166, starting with his John Brown days). Now I need to go to your sources, as ever -- you narrate the "battle" so well. Thank you so much for the richness of your work.
I just moved to Denver like six months ago and I had vague knowledge of the settler history, but holy fucking SHIT
The Horrors aside, we now need to get Joe listening to Coheed and Cambria.
Who says I dont
Geese is a great band, Joe has taste in music now?
Oh tom. They most definitely don’t hand out controlled substances in the U.S. like they used to. Now if you get surgery, they’re like; okay. Here are exactly 5 days worth of narcotics for said pain. 😂 I had my gallbladder removed last year and that’s what they did to me. I ended up having to take leftover meds from my mom because the “gas pain” from them filling my abdomen with carbon dioxide during laparoscopic surgery absolutely killed me one night.
Regarding George Bent and Native Americans fighting for the Confederacy....this was way more common than one might think. Stand Watie was the leader of the Cherokee Nation and also a General within the Confederate army.
They won’t ever be honest about native Americans. Like the black hills lies they kept saying
DTRM??????????????
I need photos of Joe and Tom’s 40k armies
The only Medal of Honor I know of that was revoked was one awarded to a Dr. Mary E. Walker who worked as a doctor for the Union army in the civil war. She displayed incredible bravery in tending to her patients under fire and crossing over enemy lines to treat wounded men. She was captured by the confederates and ransomed in an exchange. Her Medal of Honor was revoked in 1916 because she was technically the equivalent of an independent contractor and not a soldier in the army.
Has anyone checked if LLBD or Joe is in the Epstein Files?
Another reason that corpse infrastructure is feasible. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/n8m9b6OdrX
Joe's comment about this being an anthology has me like Steve from American dad saying "Ah shit its wounded knee, its wounded knee isnt it"
There are a lot of options, unfortunately, but that seems likely.
I highly recommend A Misplaced Massacre: Struggling with the Memory of Sand Creek to anyone that would like to read more about this. It's about how the Tribes involved, the state of Colorado and the US Parks service are choosing to remember the massacre in the context of the 2007 commemoration of the site. It plays out the narrative of the massacre, the historiography of the masacre and the commemoration of the site in amazing detail and prose.
The pine barrens is such a good episode, Paulie and Chris speed run Napoleon's invasion of Russia
“Ya not gonna believe dis, he killed 16 Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator!” “…His house looked like shit”
Yeah codeine is a schedule 2. Joe you received what is called a “love letter” from customs. NL probably controls DXM which is in mucinex.
My uncle worked for the BIA before he left to become the tortilla baron of Northern Virginia. When the American Indian Movement occupied BIA HQ, Unc's office was trashed. Might have had something to do with his friendship with Russell Means and other AIM leaders. My family is proud that he was labeled as a subversive by Hoover's FBI.
Ha this was the reason the university of Denver tried to quietly walk away from their pioneer moniker they had all of Evans papers in their archives
When I was a teenager I read Bury my heart at wounded knee and the part about this event affected me so much. I wrote a very bad and probably stupid if I could even remember what the lyrics were song about it
He was an interior decorator, he killed 12 Czechoslovakians with his bare hands! Pine barrens is the best episode and the show should have ended with that guy walking through the dinner door with a gun
"his house looked like shit"
Shout out to the No Gods No Mayors fans listening to this!
Hell yeah finally one about my wonderful Colorado! Thank you for covering this. When I was in school this was not taught or we were given the American White-washed version. It wasn’t until I was older and visited the site and read more about Colorado history that I came to the conclusion that I think we might be the bad guys…
I dimly remember a western mini series in the 80’s that had a character that seems to have been based on Silas Soule. I was a kid at the time and what stuck with me was a line where one of the soldiers attacking the camp asks an officer what to do with the children and the officer responded “nits grow up to be lice”. Good lesson for a young child about our military.
That was probably Centennial.
Didn’t think John Brown would make it in this episode but hell yeah! Always love it when the GOAT gets a mention. Just learned more about Silas and gotta say another GOAT
Colorado teacher here, we teach this. We also teach the mining riots and how much Pinkertons suck. That being said, if you're available, I'd love to find a time to connect you with our HS history teacher and find a time to have you in class!
This episode was solidly done. I did research on the Sand Creek Massacre as part of a dissertation chapter. I even read the congressional documents when they looked into what happened. Joe definitely kept some of the details out either for brevity or for the sake of not wanting to overly indulge in the horror.
It’s some of the worst shit I’ve ever read about.
I only learned about this horrible thing that happened in my state because of my mom. She reasonably undersold how horrible it was since i was less than 10 years old
Absolutely fantastic episode about an absolutely *dire* topic.
Gonna have to pass on this one. I really don't need to start my day/week hearing about genocide right now.
Oh goodie another cursed family history episode. By goodie I do not mean goodie.
I suspect the reason we don't see movies about people like Silas Soule, Benjamin Lay (a dwarf Quaker abolitionist) and Smedley Butler is because they might give people Ideas, like fierce resistance, equality and our governments are SHIT.
I love when a wild John Brown shows up.
Bleeding Kansas episode when?
Another "we have to look history in the eye" episode to start my week. Aw yeah it's Donk time
I don't want to beat the year of a dead horse. But Sarah Jessica Parker.
The massacres are in the past but the trauma is still there, and the repercussions are still impacting native Americans today. Same with the First Nations of Australia, where I'm from. We have to know about the fucked up shit that happened during colonisation, so we can start to make some form of restitution and build a future based on understanding and equality.
I think Silas Sol was the hopeful balm on an episode which would've otherwise been hard listening. A real Wallenburg type hero.
Im excited for this one. much of my love of history comes from having a cool history teacher who talked about the Sand Creek and Ludlow massacres as a kid growing up in Colorado.
There is something chilling hearing the extent of the atrocities described within the context of describing a civil war military campaign.
wait joe hasn't seen the sopranos? forget lions led by robots, we need lions led by guidos
Lions Led By Gabagool.