BONUS: Lions Led By Robots 24: Congratulations!

I would point out a line that was read out loud in this episode, which is "Once again, Human Instrumentality begins", and I would say something that was never mentioned on the podcast was the very funny moment where someone casually said "as was foretold in the Dead Sea Scrolls"

Aside from the tub water being a cultural Japanese thing, I don't know that Misato COULD afford to swap it every time, because it's kind of like there's a long, slow apocalypse, they still have steak but it's become much more of a luxury, so perhaps there's not an abundance of water even if she could afford it, and while I think she could have gone to Gendo and said "You don't pay me enough, give me a raise" I think she isn't totally willing to think about herself being used as a tool to control the the child tools, so she doesn't want to think about it being her "job" to have this transactional manipulative relationship and would feel even worse if she also accepted money for it

I wonder what it would it've been like if Anno wanted to tell the same ideas, but in the form of a slice-of-life comedy?

I watched this over two decades ago in undergrad and recall thinking "Ah, the cartoon version of existentialism" about the final episodes. And the therapy stuff, but I didn't take therapy seriously until I was in my mid thirties and by then I found I preferred behaviorism, so that's more of a pastiche of somewhat interesting ideas to me.

Late to the party, but just wanted to throw in for Joe: I just finished "The Mercy of Gods", start of a new series by James S.A. Corey, and it's worth checking out to fill that The Expanse void.

Congratulations!

https://nerdist.com/article/new-evangelion-anime-series-in-production/?utm_posttype=imagelinkpost&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawQJ1L1leHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETI2a29SU1J2YlBhd0gxTEFkc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHhzzfJeaAR1BOS7tzn-P9Hnjp_ZUxZK4CbmyAvaJB7Bk3c81FQxm9TFWjfeF_aem_pksHNr5pD8iRMeyCNT8FSw#Echobox=1771889798

As a therapist, this was such a wonderful episode, and series in general, to listen to. It makes me really happy to hear folks like yall sharing your journey in therapy. It really helps to normalize it and I wouldn't be surprised if someone listening decides to get help because of that. You both should be proud of yourself for the journey you've traveled. Thank you so much for bringing a lot of smiles, and more than a few tears, to a counselor that really needed it! Congratulations!

It makes me so happy Joe truly understands Xenogears; I always saw the human instrumentality project in Eva as the same thing as returning all humans to goo/deus in Xenogears.

Thank you for awesome work over the last year Joe and Tom! (waited a whole month to get it right this time) Started listening to the pod a couple of years ago when going through some tough times myself and really appreciated the conversations you’ve had over the years regarding trauma, mental challenges and general human conditions. Thanks to all the all the amazing staff and guests involved with LLBD and anyone else who makes this content possible! P.s. if you ever do a live show in NZ I’m there for sure!

So a new Evangelion short film directed by Anno just came out which is the end of the show from Asuka's perspective. ASUSHIN IS CANON, BITCHES!

And at the end you mention Joe Abercrombie, nice!!!

This is a cultural thing. In Japan, you wash outside of the bath, rinse off, then soak in the water. The water is usually shared between all members of a household. As this is unlikely to come up in either conversation or a classroom, Anno and the rest of the production staff probably didn't know this. It's the cultural equivalent of Asuka, who supposedly grew up in Germany speaking German, speaks German with a really terrible Japanese accent (in the much superior subs).

I'd recommend The First Law series by Joe Abercrombie (followed by two more trilogies in the same universe). I was in the same boat after reading that as you are with the Expanse which, incidentally, I have started due to your recommendation and I can't thank you enough for that. Amazing books!!! The First Law universe has a very 40K grimdark vibe to it which I know you've also gotten into recently. Give it a look, I think you'll like it.

You guys just causally making me weep while driving, though I was on my way to my weekly therapy appointment, so that worked out. But damn from Tom’s comments in the first episode in this series to Joe’s in this one, thanks for giving me plenty to talk about with my therapist.

Y’all should do Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory before you do FMA Brotherhood. It’s only 13 episodes so you could do it in a single episode like you did Gundam 0080. And it’s really like Top Gun with Giant Robots. It’s my favorite Gundam show of all time.

A reading recommendation for Joe to fill the Expanse void: The Vorkosigan-Saga combines military sci-fi with a view on tradition and progress clashing, and a healthy dose of humor and silliness. Lois McMaster Bujold's series is going on for quite some time, and the oldest sci-fi works that feel "modern" in style to me. Treat yourself and try it if you have not yet. ;-)

If you guys return to Gundam, you NEED to simply just take a long break from G Gundam and go all in on the Universal Century series. Going through the 2010s prequel series, Gundam: The Origin, would be a good start. Just 6 hour-long episodes of action and intrigue in the years leading up to the One Year War.

I still need to see Mad Men, but per lore (this may be wrong) Matthew Weiner did the spec script for Mad Men around 1999 and met David Chase in 2002 who enjoyed the Mad Men script so much that he was a writer and producer for later seasons of the sopranos (2004 to 2007, season 5, 6a, 6b) So yeah two shows that aired at different times but both came out of the same 90s and had connections that cross linked them

I'll admit I still hate Evangelion, and this series hasn't made me like it any more, but it's been a lot of fun listening to you two talk about it!

Came here for the war history, stayed for the giant robots. Thank you guys for the series, it was a fun ride! And I ended up watching an absolute classic anime I haven't seen before this series

Yeah in japan when you take a bath everyone uses the same water going from oldest in the household to the youngest which is why asuka mentions that

I do not merely defend the elevator scene, I champion it. The elevator scene is perfect. If anything it could have been longer.

Congratulations

I just go to the gym at 5 am, it’s not crowded so all the insane morning people are more spaced out. I work nights so this is the end of my day as a context.

It was lovely doing a rewatch with you. Reminded me of why this show consumed my life for like 4 months after I finished it.

Congratulations! You gotta watch End of Eva right after this.

If you need to get out of the reading funk I highly recommend the Divine Cities Trilogy by Robert Jackson Bennet if you haven’t checked it out yet - one of the best modern fantasy trilogies written that seems to somehow fly under the radar

YES, yes, thank you Tom for pointing out that it is Gendo who draws the lines that give Shinji his limitations, but which also allows him to orient himself and begin to create the foundation for his identity. It is perfect. Gendo is throughout the series the biggest and first Other to Shinji. He and Shinji never open up to each other, Shinji doesn't know anything about him, and he is constantly antagonistic to his son. This makes Gendo the perfect one to represent the first level of self-becoming for Shinji through the creation of separation and limitations.

So, breakdown of Human Instrumentality: All life is made up of LCL, which is essentially primordial soup. Within LCL can exist consciousness, but it is undivided, non specific consciousness. AT-Fields physically and spiritually separate LCL into separate beings, but doing so divides up that consciousness into individuals. This separation prevents us from ever being able to fully connect to and understand others, and our identities are shaped by how we interact with the world and others. So you need to exist in the world and with other people, dealing with all the confusion and suffering that this entails, in order to form your identity and know yourself. By running away from the world and others, you become isolated and lose the ability to understand yourself. This is what happens when Human Instrumentality starts. Shinji has experienced all this pain in his life and wants to run away from it, run away from other people. Human Instrumentality shuts down the AT-Fields, getting rid of the barriers between individuals that cause all this pain to begin with. However, living an existence without these barriers, without the factors that create your identity, and not engaging with reality, is not really living at all. To run away from life is to essentially die. We see in episodes 25 and 26 the beginning of Human Instrumentality, where everyone's consciousness still sort of exists, but the barriers are gone, and they're beginning to mix into each other. All the factors that make up your identity are on display for everyone, everything you have seen and experienced in your life is being seen by everyone else. And if this keeps up, everyone's consciousness will dissolve into one whole, a single consciousness without thought or being. Because when there is nothing in the world, nothing to challenge you or shape you, there is nothing to be done. Shinji, after experiencing this group therapy session, decides that is is worth it to keep existing, even if it might be difficult and painful at times, it is worth it to keep living in the world with others, because at least when you're alive you have the chance to he happy and experience love, and you can't do that if you don't exist. He says yes to life, and leaves Instrumentality, fully accepting who he is, and is congratulated by everyone. The End of Evangelion really drives this point home, particularly calling out to the shut-in otaku fans obsessed with the series who try to escape reality through fantasy. Anno is arguing that living this way, running away from life, is the same as not existing. "Where is my reality?" "At the end of your dreams." Even if life is painful, it should be lived, and you shouldn't try to run away through escapism, because it won't help and you will barely be alive.

So a bit of Angel lore explanation. The Angels are an equivalent species to Humans, they are intelligent and have an interior mind just like us. However, Angels and Humans were made to be incompatible with each other, never able to properly connect to others. Because of that, Angels are completely alone, isolated from the world and people around them. They are equivalent to our main characters, who are also personally isolated and struggling to form connections with others, and being stuck behind the barriers they set up (AT-Fields). This is why the last three Angels try to communicate with the Pilots. But because they don't know how to do it, they force their way into their minds and lives in horrible, violating ways. They are trying to force a connection with others for their own sake without consideration for the other, just using a person for personal gratification (similar to what Shinji regretfully does in the hospital with Asuka).

I am raising my fists into the air shouting "YES" at hearing that Joe had an emotionally bad time with the Asuka storyline. Everyone watching this show should have their soul torn apart by how much they relate to the characters.

The only other creator that I can think of who created a work of art that is so personal to them and the things they love, which then became insanely successful and profitable, and to which that creator then went back to later to try and "improve" it and made more of it at an inferior level is George Lucas. And man, Lucas and Anno are probably my favorite creative people alive today.

I finished Ghosts of Tshushima earlier this week actually. Felt like a stripped down Assassins Creed/Arkham which I was okay with. A.C. has just gotten too big. This just makes the grind feel so much worse. I liked the story and a bit of the side quests had a good c and d story lines. They killed my horse. I killed their lives.

"You ran outta ink too, didn't you, you bastards?"

If you’re looking for a video game that you can shut your brain off for Joe, pick up space marine 2. Blue man massacres legions of space bugs never gets old.

FLCL progressed through my life in different points, as it seems Neon Genisis did for Tom

Its not an anime, it has no robots, it's a series, it's not even Japanese, but yall should do a review of Riki-Oh: The Story of Ricky.

Congratulations to you two, this was great! Joe, suggestion: The Divine Cities trilogy by Robert Jackson Bennett for new books and Blue Prince for a new game. Both very good, both very absorbing, both different enough from Expanse/E33 (respectively) that you won't be comparing too directly

I'm still scratching my head after watching these last few episodes. Better let the "sexperts" break it down for me. Let the Jungian chicanery ensue.

Congragulations! FLCL holds up pretty well, one or two scenes notwithstanding

Congratulations! Also EoE before its over right?

I’m well behind in this series but was thoroughly enjoying it. Maybe some single animated films in between seasons? Jin roh wolves in human armour would be a good pick or just for the insanity ninja scroll resurrection.