Fireside Chat for WWW ep9 "The King of Cups"
Ahoohoo, Yonders! It's all hands on (tarot) deck for chattin bout ep9, Da King a Da Cups! The Fox, the "feels", and wheels within wheels. How to play, what to say, when the vibe is "dismay." Can you be true to your heart while your squad falls apart? All this and more on the chat-back show some are calling "out today!"
Comments (125)
Did not know Abria's dog was named Suvi. Now I do!
Naddpod shout out with that “thick sode” reference
It’s one of my favorite things that Brennans on the record for being a huge fan and keeping up to date with Naddpod
Aww, I think this fireside was the first "ahoo hoo crackle crackle"!!!
I did not know that Aabria’s dog was named Suvi
So here for Brennan and Taylor going down the philosophy rabbit hole - it is so fascinating to ask those big-picture questions through the lens of narrative.
Waaaaaaaay late to the party here, but Meinklang as in the wine? Nobody caught that? Or have my other obsessions betrayed me?
Fantastic Brennan philosophical debate bone cone
Would be willing to explain “bone cone” to me? I have no idea what it means but I keep seeing it. Help? 😭
Taylor's wonderful tarot descriptions here have me imagining a The Wizard, The Witch, and The Wild One tarot deck. Oh, what a treat that would be! Particularly fantastic episode and fireside chat, everyone! Thank you for your beautiful work! I always love to hear about the sound design aspect of this story, as well. ❤️
Why does Taylor an Brennan sound so alike. 😅 Or is it just me?
It's not just you!
As someone who has a late Dec birthday I can relate to Brennans not love of birthdays
Goddamnit Aabria calling out why I relate to Suvi so much of the thing where “she’s so smart she can justify what she needs to to make sense of the world around her.” Dagger to my fucking heart and my therapist will be hearing about it on Tuesday lol
A therapist once told me I was very sophisticated at justifying ways to be mean to myself 😬
How DARE you let Aabria say “What the fox says” and NOBODY jumps in to make the dumb joke!
Too late for the crit roll train but listened to this, was thinking it would be meh, NOPE. Addicted from first ep. Then I thought I'll never listen to the fireside, still so much to listen to, just finished first arc, NOPE. I'm now listening to everyone of the fs before second arc and crying, laughing and just enjoying it all. I would pay $$$ just to be in the campaign for a moment in time. Going to up my donation to them regardless.
Tip! Try Brennan’s miniseries for Critical Roll called Calamity and Downfall. It had the best of both worlds and I think it’s 3 episodes each. Abria and Lou are also in the first one. 💚
So love the intelligence of everyone involved in this pod. And the intelligence in these comments tbh. Hadn't thought about "principles" as problematic in this way before. Forced me to check some of my own tendencies towards "whataboutism." A part of me does wonder if principles serve a function for some people? Maybe I'm not understanding it right, but I had a friend who got a lot of comfort from external principles, like they helped them to believe in the good of the world maybe? Anyway, this pod got me thinking. Fascinating! Beautiful.
I'm currently on a Marcy listen through right now (only listening to the Firesides all in a row) I hope she did find the main feed. I feel like it might be just a little easier if the main stories are also available on the main feed. Makes it a little less confusing, especially since Patreon has a decent filtering system.
was taylor reading wikipedia or did he just have all that tarot knowedge on deck??? that blew my freakingg mind!!!
Catching up on episodes - just wanted to say thanks (?) for the shout-out to Iowa! Love listening to this from Des Moines!
23:02 - 26:40 Check out the anime Sword Art Online (season 3) to see a cool example of a society with principles (rules you must always follow) and their bizarre immoral edge cases. There are no rules you can ALWAYS follow, life is too complex.
25:50 Hey, Taylor? All respect, one musician and sound designer to another, but this is such a weird and confidently wrong tangent. Civilizations don't rely on the types of institutions you're talking about here; that's some bizarre myth for authoritarian sycophants. Any member of society with so much as a shred of empathy doesn't need to "surrender their personal principles" to conform to a group for the greater good; empathy literally exists to conform individual and group social and survival instincts. That's how *healthy* societies and communities are formed. What you're talking about is a bunch of sociopaths getting trapped on an island and being reluctant to treat themselves equally to the group. Or, like, if we tolerated a law enforcement class that beats and murders vulnerable people because they were perceived as threatening rich people's property, and one day we might be rich people. That would be *insane*.
I’m like 99% sure he was joking
I am so glad Taylor is back chatting on fireside like damn can't even express the talent you have plus fits right in with the banter hoping for more
This episode was absolutely incredible. My favourite moment was when Eursulon, who I expected to agree with Ame, had the outburst of just fear of the empire and not wanting to interfere. It just really illustrated to me how scarred he is from the years that have passed.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
Super appreciate the love for a good library montage! Thank you so much for this conversation - adding layers every time!!
KING OF CUPS WAS ONE OF THE BEST EPISODES SO FAR! Every person involved did a phenomenal job with their characters, and for the intricacy of the story.
"Will Gallows can't fuck every business associate the moment he meets them and still be a crime boss" I see you're taking a slow burn approach, and I respect that, and I want you to know that the cursed PWP fanfic I'm writing totally disregards that. But like, respectfully and with love!
I honestly flipped out when Aabria mentioned the Precious Moments bible because I ALSO HAVE ONE!! I didn't know other people had them omg
I did not know Suvi is the name of Aabrias dog, appreciate the clarification. I don’t think that had made it into the audio before, and I kinda avoid social media at the moment
That moment when you didn't know you were on a podcast...
The way Lou talks about not being worried in the scene with Will when I literally squealed in relief when he finally got the sword is crazy
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
yknow Erika, I really appreciated the suvi dog clarification because it seemed like they had to be a dog but this is the first fireside chat that I've been able to get to! so happy to be here! :D
Ehrmahgerd. I — a woman with the power of search engines — needed to immediately know what was the time frame for the public domain music. "In most cases, songs enter the public domain when its’ copyright expires. Today, this is the case for any song made before 1926. For songs released after that, the copyright typically expires 70 years after the original artist of the song passes away."
Howdy! Is there a patreon member's podcast I can subscribe to, in the way that NADDPOD have their public and patreon content on separate podcasts? I am not loving the patreon-native episode interface.
You can just add the rss feed to your app. There is a link under the membership tab in patreon
I love these chats so much! Defiantly going to be talking to unsuspecting people all week about the debate cadence problem of consistency > making the world better.
So, just so you're all aware, asslessfox.com is available and only $12 a year. https://domains.google.com/registrar/search?searchTerm=asslessfox.com&hl=en#
HAHAHA -t
Brennan does such a good job of explaining why hypocrisy is often necessary and good
Anyone else think Taylor and Brennan’s voices sound sooooo similar?
Oh it's uncanny
Matt, as another goldfish brain person (5 second memory) that would help me too - or even a time marker so I can open the ep and cut right to it?
I love this pod very much but could I make a humble request for Taylor regarding the edit: When you guys are discussing specific things from the episode (certain lines, certain sound effects or score elements), it would be sooo cool if we could have a little 5-second clip of that thing just to jog our memory before or after we hear you guys discuss it. Because personally 80% I can’t remember what exactly you’re talking about, like the “drunken stumbling soundtrack”, and yes I could go back to the episode and try to find it but I might be scrubbing around for ages just looking for it. If this is a really inconvenient and disproportionate amount of work to do, please ignore me, just an idea that came into my head, hopefully others agree! Love you all, you’re all supremely talented and cool and kind x
I do have to agree, I love the talkback and will continue to listen, but do feel that compared to Naddpod or adventuring parties, I don’t understand their references unless I just listened to the episode as they just alude to the moments and don’t always specify Not a huge deal, but it’s nice to hear someone else have the same issue with something I’m slightly frustrated with
Okay, 1 - this has to be one of the best firesides yet. SUCH a good deep dive! 2 - I really need to know where Taylor is from, because trying to pin down the accent is driving me NUTS
"You don't see with your eyes. You perceive with your mind." Brennan spreading the gospel of the great Del the Funky Homosapien. (Guest rapper on Clint Eastwood by Gorillaz) 🙌
Brennan continues to win my heart with the nod to NADDPOD ("Thick 'sode") and using Gorillaz lyrics to explain the player-GM relationship around perceptive world building.
I never thought I’d be into d&d and have a weird internal narrative about not being creative or a writer HOWEVER listening to these five creators has been so inspiring it’s seriously beyond me. I’m now daydreaming about world building and really enjoying exploring my own mind. I feel such pure joy to absorb this content oof
I found it curious that the discussion of Steel was about *institutions* and how they give freedom within moveable but definite limits, and how they like grids and order and control. My read on Steel was a mom who's been scared out of her wits and is *therefore* furious, with the sense that she has very specific reasons for being afraid for Suvi that she has not told Suvi about. I understand the "yes, of course you have freedom and agency to do anything that serves the institution, but cross that line and you will get squashed." That's there, but so was Galani's comment: "She was relieved that her surrogate daughter is alive. Judging by the tears running down her face, I think she may well be mad when she gets here."
Exactly! That has always been how I’ve read her, especially given how close she was with Stone, and how her promises to both Stone and Suvi must affect her personal actions in this circumstance along with the empire.
Love when Taylor is a part of the chats! Also, it's such a delight to listen to the T.A.B.L.E (credit to DC above for the acronym) collectively lose their mind over one another's creative choices and all the hidden meanings within. Additionally, the Fox now lives permanently in my heart and I will straight up die if/when he gets hurt. Scratch that, already dead at the thought. RIP me.
For the record: I didn’t know that Aabria had a dog named Suvi before Erika said that. Fully thought Aabria just talked to a figment of Suvi in her imagination.
Merch brainwave: a crackling fireside silhouette with a dialogue bubble reading "Ahoohoo to you"
Best wishes to Lev, I hope he can manage to graduate this year!
Fox Philosophy: I always try to do whatever I want to do. If they can't catch me then what they think about me doesn't matter. If they catch me then I'm in trouble. If I stop trying to do what I want to do then they've already caught me.
A truly THICK sode lolol Chef's kiss to absolutely every aspect of this episode...I was so wildly uncomfy but I couldn't stop listening
I really want to see a cut of Taylor reading the credits and introducing Urselon as each one of Lou's characters from the Firesides
I absolutely agree with Brennan's sentiment of don't punish your players but I think I struggle with the opposite issue. I find one my biggest limiting factors is my hesitance to present too great a challenge to the players. What were seeing in the campaign right now is a monumental task laid before level 1 players, my question to Brennan would be how do you feel confident knowing your players will manage this without player death. Most level 1 adventures are like clearing rats from a basement not freeing Godzilla
"How do you feel confident knowing your players will manage this without player death?" He doesn't. Ame went down on the first round of their first battle. Mostly he trusts his very good, very experienced players to pull things out of the hat, and he can tweak things, but the dice are the dice, and Brennan doesn't pull punches.
Does any one else sometimes have a hard gime telling Taylor's and Brennan apart? May be is just that i listen to this when I'm tired?
Rest might help but they definitely do have very similar voices and manners of speech.
I neeeeeed a The Wizard, The Witch and The Wild One Album. The music is so incredible and I just want to blast it over my speakers as I melt into a pillow
So glad you got into the name and it’s tarot roots :) I was drawing that card a lot the day before the episode released which made for a lovey synchronicity experience last week.
Oh and can I just say that as a doctoral candidate learning to Taylor and Brennan talk philosophical shop is my Jam! I mean babe dropping Rawls? Heck yeah. Looking forward to when they bring up Senn and Nussbaum or even drop in some Fricker or Young into the mix.
And is there any way I can get Brennan to go on record in dialogue for my dissertation on Improvisation as essential training for teachers? Because... Legit I'm down to do an entire chapter on TTRPG as an analog for the teacher student relationship within a constrained discipline.
Honestly given enough time in her head to justify it, I can see Suvi selling Ame and Ursulon for a dollar
She belongs to an organization where members sacrifice themselves for the greater good all the time. There is definitely a situation where she could do that.
I'm so glad that the whole crew was around the fire for this chat because yeah this episode was so damned good and just so so so big
I also must make it known that when Taylor is present, the group's initials spell out T.A.B.L.E. Thank you for your time.
Unfortunately Lou cannot make it to the fireside today, so it’s TAB_E, and constantly changing, thank you for reading, have a wonderful evening 😅
Nah. Rules for thee and not for me; inconsistency is the handmaiden of injustice.
I hear you. Thank you (sincerely) for taking the time to elaborate. People are allowed to be better than they were yesterday. So I won't suggest that an individual should not do their imperfect moral best. My view on inconsistency is so grim because humans are biased even when they don't mean to be (though they often mean to be). The favored groups will be showered in grace, mercy, and good deeds. The disfavored groups...well, they're going to be bearing the brunt of everyone else's "bad days" and moral failings. Similar injustice is reflected in court rulings all the time. When the cake ain't cut even, I know who's ending up with the smaller piece. We all hunger for a better world. I often feel that the disfavored must demand that everyone at the table is served before anyone eats, else nobody will care that the plates of the disfavored are empty and they will starve to death. To be clear, I am not placing this at your feet or Brennan's feet. I place it at the feet of society and our natural/historical biases.
This is so amazing I’ve never been so invested into a podcast before.. can we please get them another level anytime there’s a potential combat encounter I’m sweating I need them to make it to the end of the story lol
I find it really disorienting how similar Taylor and Brennan sound. Just me? Lol.
I agree, I keep confusing the 2 of them lol
Fantastic to hear from the Magnificent Mr Moore on this one, the music and sound production give so much to the world and the story. Rich textures, scintillating contours, so much of the luxurious lushness of life pulses through every moment of WWWW. In particular, I adore how y'all utilize silence.
I wonder if there is ever a possibility of getting like video of the with Taylor firesides? I LITERALLY cannot tell Taylor and Brennan's voices apart. The sensory processing is so broken for me 🤣😭
Know what you mean, my brain has to take a couple extra seconds to process whos talking between the two of them.
I am loving the philosophical explanations, they help me understand what what characters are thinking and feeling. Thanks so much!
We should all be a little more like the fox.
Going to ha e to relisten for specific Fox quotes, they're begging for a proper embroidery'ing
To defend Marcie, listening on two different apps might be a challenge for some
Re-listening to the Suvi and Steel scene with the knowledge that Steel is 15-friggin'-feet tall during it makes it so much more scary in the whole, little-kid-about-to-get-in-BIG-trouble-from-mom way.
We need a pet post from the whole crew
WBN liked it, that means it's gotta happen right??? Right? 🙏
We love dropping every bad Kantian categorical imperative logical fallacy for why moral perfectionism is simply a logical name for excusing complicity. Being imperfect and flawed and inconsistent is not a cudgel to beat oneself or others; it's an inevitability given a world which is too big for any one person to tackle every wrong and still allow nuance, difference, and reflection. Freire has a whole thing about the introjection of the mind of the oppressor and how that is one of the most important things to unlearn in order for a more just world to be made.
And if you never make a different decision, does that not show your inability to learn and grow and evolve?
This ep was the first I've listened to twice in the same week, just simply amazing. This is my favourite actual play content right now, bar none
I love that Taylor was here for this one. He's a blast with the group!
Love to hear Brennan quoting Del the Funky Homosapien
I love how Erika fully commits to the guest name bit every time.
Genuinely as someone who’s had this conversation with my therapist multiple times, I wholly understand Brennan’s point about principles, because while it’s from a base point inherently illogical to say “Two contradictory statements can be true.” It’s entirely valid to say “From a point of perspective these two statements are both true, and by the very nature of the universe in all of its chaos and things being on a spectrum that is not black & white, can both be correct without diminishing each other.” That’s what is at the core of the theory of relativity, everything is relative to your point of reference.
When/where can I get an "Ahoohoo!" shirt?
These podcasts and fireside are absolutely amazing!! I am simultaneously can’t wait for the next episode and know that I can’t sustain that level of intensity if binged. My only true complaint was the R*ll T!@e. That’s strictly because I am in the SEC and have my own personal grudges. But seriously, this whole package of experiences is just a masterpiece.
More Taylor on the Fireside! The sound design of this pod is so damned critical to the tone, that he's a welcome addition to the conversation.
Also I just love getting to know Taylor more as a person, what excites him, his politics etc
Ahoohoo to you! God, what an incredible episode AND talkback. such an incredible font of joy. i have to mention something i havent seen anyone else say: ame’s decisions to one, disguise her shock and horror as disgust for Naram, and to also bullseye what Morrow wanted to hear, saying “and a Wizard from the Citadel has witnessed that it was you that led this…endeavor,” were both so subtle and incredible to me. the voice acting of holding back nausea while perfectly disengaging with deception through only two lines of dialogue really blew me away. all hail erika ishii!
Teacup here, yes it does answer my question! Thank you very much!!!
Honestly regardless if it’s an ep or fireside, it’s such a joy to spend an hour straight with goosebumps. Couldn’t not be more pleased w this crew
Oof the breakdown of the episode is really digging into some feels and I love that they’re really deconstructing everything in such detail 🥰
Roll tide!
I appreciate that you guys talked so much about the episode. 👏🏻👏🏻
"If you smack your players on the hand every time they do something risky, they will stop taking risks. And then you'll be sitting there, stunned that your story's not moving forward." - Brennan being the sage every gm needs in their ear.
I wonder if it is a cultural thing, coz the turn away to protect what little we have feels very real to me and kinda something I hear uttered often, and by the people around me. It doesn't feel inhuman or uncommon at all to me 🤔
I think it resonates a lot with marginalized communities. Sometimes you're just too tired to fight for the greater good.
Such a lovely way to start my day
Oh man my goldfish brain needs to relisten right before the Fireside comes out. Y’all are referencing scenes I k i n d a remember but…? Sounds like a great time
Holes for the butt cheeks
There's such brutal honesty in that choice of Lou's of having Eursulon decline that chance to be move towards a heroic act again...killed me. <3
Great ep!
Ahoohoo friends!
#blessthatfox
a hoo hoo!
The Fox is indeed the best Brennan NPC ever.
I mean, I agree, but the crazy in Bloodkeep that wanted to keep his bones stays in my head most days.
FYI the title say ep8
Pics of Brennan in the assless fox costume when?
I mean the philosophy is great too - but get those pics!
Crackle crackle mudda farkers!
Crackle Crackle!