Well That Was A Stressful 24 Hours
An ebb and flow of Patrons is all part of the business. Some months we're down a few, others we're up a few. Some people pledge for the long haul, but its unreasonable to expect everyone to do that.
That said, I had more Patrons cancel in the past day than I have in the past three months combined. Losing more than 30 patrons, especially after making a push the last couple of months to get us to our next milestone, stung a little bit. But worse was not knowing how bad it will get still. How many Patrons these fee changes will lose me before the dust settles.
I was pissed off and freaking out last night, up until 2am researching all sorts of alternatives.
"What plugins are available for this sort of thing"
"How would I manage subscriptions if I wanted to deliver rewards via email?"
"What can I do to counteract this within Patreon?"
And I'm far from alone. Patreon creators across the board are dealing with the same thing, many of whome also rely on it for their livelihood like me, and some who have been hit much harder.
It sucks.
With that said, though, I do want to shout out to the handful of you that either increased your pledges, or pledged anew despite the fees, in what I assume is an attempt to offset those that had to cancel. I don't want everyone feeling like they need to overextend themselves in that way, but I just wanted to say the gesture was appreciated.
Patreon still has a chance to reverse course on this; I'm not going to hold my breath, but 97% of Patrons and Creators (I saw a poll) are against this change. So maybe.
But if they don't, we will continue to explore alternatives. Drip by Kickstarter is a possibility when it launches, and Gumroad just announced they're planning to drop their fees in the near future (I would just pay a monthly rate to use the service), so that's another possibility I can explore.
If we can just tread water for a little bit here, I think eventually someone is going to take advantage of the market dissatisfaction that Patreon just created.
Comments (33)
I as well am not going anywhere unless Tim goes somewhere. I have some 1 dollar pledges out there to other creators but I'm not dropping those just because Patreon is making bad decisions. I would be intrigued if the 95% flat take home for Creators is offset by the average loss of low tier patreons or if its a net loss overall.
While I don’t agree with the new policy, I did bump up my subscription for the next few months to help you out.
Tim has done right by me in the past. I have absolutely no issue with increased fees. I have a problem with the way they're doing it. More money is coming out of the pockets of the patrons, and less of that money is going to the creator. Using their own numbers, which I cannot validate, they say creators are paying 2-10% in transaction fees. At 10%, that means the creator is getting 85% of my $3 or 2.55. New system, the creator gets 95% of $3 or $2.85. However, I pay 2.9% + 0.35 or $3.44. At $3.44, according to the old system of 85%, they should be getting $2.92. So, technically the creator is seeing more money.. but at the cost of actually getting a smaller total percentage than they used to get. They're charging us more, to give them less.. while saying they're giving them more. Out of principle, I have to cancel if they follow through on their plans. I only hope they either turn around, or Tim gets a new system in place so I can keep supporting him.
So they posted an update to their blog that clarifies a bit of the "why" behind the fee structure shift: <a href="https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure/">https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure/</a>
Their update is barely more than sophistry. There are more cost efficient methods to resolve the issues with the old system. All this does is cause patrons to pay more per backed creator. The more creators you back, the more you're penalized for doing so. The new fee system actually encourages people to back as few as possible.
I can't find a place to tell Patreon where they can stuff their cat scat, but if you'd like to pass along a suggestion (or point me to where i can) - Why in gods green earth don't they simply set a rule or system in place that once a patron subscribes to a creator they agree to a minimum of one month. They don't get charged until the 1st so Patreon can continue doing cheaper bulk charges, but even if they cancel their subscription before then they still pay for that one month (and have access during it).
This sounds like a horrible cash grab from patreon, you are the only person who I pledge to and I was thinking of supporting more creators but if the charges apply to each payment the expense is supporting more artists undesirable. I will continue to support you through this price increase and will continue to with whatever you decide to do in the future, whether it be with patreon or not. I feel for the people who support multiple creators who will seriously have to reconsider who they continue to support.
Apparently, Patreon is just incredibly foolish. A number of people have ran the numbers, and everybody ends up losing. Patrons are charged more, creators gets less, and patreon ends up with less. The only people who get any additional funding seems to be the credit companies receiving transaction fees. If I were a conspiracy nut....
So the new system really needs to be, put money into site (charge fees associated with that here), use money on site to contribute to artists/creator's, charge creator's a fee to be on the site. Based on your comments about the new Kickstarter thing, that's what it will do. I guess it doesn't work like this because the whole point is consumer can contribute on an ad hoc basis and pay what is on the screen. So the issue is Patreon done gone and messed up the existing contributors way of doing things. Going forward for any new contributors it won't be a problem. Still leaves the per post creator's in a bind though that extra 35c per transaction.... Will be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks.
While I echo the sentiment about your art unfortunately I support a number of Creators on Patreon and so the fees and percentages add up fast.
Hey Tim, as one of the people that canceled their pledge, just wanted to say a few things. The fee change is actually great, just communicated terribly to everyone. Unfortunately how some of us use the site. Last month for example, I pledged 69 dollars to fund 62 posts. Under the upcoming system, this would have resulted in $23 in fees, a 34% increase. This is only because I mostly only chip in a dollar or two to roughly 50 different people. Once the pledges start going over 2 dollars the math begins to even back out to balance out the roughly 20% loss in income from the old system. I've never been interested in the rewards side of this site, so if you could hook me up with a PayPal link so I can give you a few months extra support more directly while the dust settles that would be great. One change that I have the most problem with is that these fees are going to be applied per post. This doesn't affect you since you've always been monthly, but for creators that operate per post, that 35 cent flat rate starts to get out of control. If you are involved in any discussions with other creators, I'd appreciate it if that fact is brought to more people's attention.
Ben- I thoroughly understand why the support becomes untenable for someone pledging to multiple creators; that's the worst part of this. It feel like these fees ruin the best thing about having a site like Patreon, and that's that once you're here supporting one artist, you may find others that you'd like to follow as well. I know some of the other big creators on this site are organizing a call with some of the higher-ups at Patreon, and I expect all of these concerns will be voiced. Whether they see reason or not remains to be seen.
To be honest, in my case (paying from New Zealand), I’m seeing a larger variation in my month-to-month donation thru the exchange rate as opposed to any change that Patreon made. So, net effect to me is “meh”. I see no reason to throw my toys and/or cancel anything over this.
I upped my pledge because 1) I love your work and 2) a stressed Tim is not a pretty image to have.
Apologies but I have no idea how to reply in a chain on here... doesn't necessarily need to be signed prints even... could just do a vote for favorite strip of the month and everyone at the correct price tier gets a nice printed copy of it? Or printed copies of the analog and D pad, starcaster or whatnot. Heck, you could even do a poll to gauge how many people would be interested in either increasing their pledge for those kinds of rewards, or becoming a patron if they aren't already - get a feel if there's enough interest to make it worth your time to figure out =)
I'm not going to stop supporting any of the creators I follow because of the cost change. I will have to examine a little more closely any new creators I might follow, though.
I moved up from the $5 step a few months ago when the new option opened up. Worst case for me is I drop back to $5, but for now, I intend to stay where I am.
Buttcones XD I've never seen that before, but congratulations, I'll never see a typed heart the same again
My job here is done.
Perhaps physical rewards? Not sure how many of your patrons are international, but getting signed prints would be neat
Yeah I've thought about that... but then it's like... How many signed prints does one person really need? I mean in terms of feeling a desire to SUBSCRIBE to them monthly. I'd have to come up with something of a hook... something that makes them feel collectible and fun in order for me to feel good about that being a reward, I think. I dunno. I'll have to think about it. But yes, also, the packing and shipping could get out of hand.
Saying what I've said to all the other people I'm backing. I will stick through you on this because you create something that brings me joy and enjoyment. And for you especially its a thing I've been following since I've been in middle school. I hope Patreon sees the complaints and undoes the new rules, but even if they don't you have my support.
<3
You might see about putting in levels between $10 and $100. I can do more than $10 but $100 is out of my reach. Might be more effort than it's worth but maybe a few more higher pledges would help offset lower numbers of $1 pledges (assuming that was the majority of those that left since they would be hit the hardest).
I will put some thought into what I feel I can offer that might be worth a slightly higher pledge.
I bumped, I wish they didnt charge the .35 per pledge instead of per month, maybe they can fix this.
That's appreciated James, but I really don't want anyone to feel like they have to shoulder a burden caused by Patreon's bumbling business decisions here.
I'm sticking around too. It doesn't seem like the changes are that big on the Patron end. I think the biggest part is that creators get a set amount of the pledge (95%)
<3
I agree, these changes didn't have me reconsidering my pledge. I have read all your work and enjoyed how you evolved as an artist, never once going into a direction I didn't like. Keep up the good work. - a Canadian reader.
<3
I'm planning to stick it out with you whatever you choose to do with the changes. Been following your work for far too long to just give it up cause of some fee shit.
<3 Buttcones for everyone.