UNCUT - The Ascent (DS9 S5E9) | Star Trek Journey 440

This episode is good, but it doesn't blow me away or anything. The B plot is a bit half baked, though what a turnaround from the Jake/Nog B plot of Life Support. Quark and Odo are always a fun pairing, and the location filming makes the episode memorable. I'm feeling B+. However I'm going to bump it up to an A, because this episode finally confirms what some have been mocked for asserting before; Odo is in fact a fascist. It's canon. Jokes aside, it is a solid episode, and I appreciate they put Odo in a situation where he really has to face the frailties of his "solid" body. And obviously a bartender is not really all that suited to scaling a mountain. As you said, focusing on small scale character stories makes it a cozy episode.

One of my top 10 of DS9. The character-driven A-plot was sublime for me. I needed more between these two, to give me a better perspective of their place in the story aside from "Opposites". Each character had already shown some individual depth, but it was this episode that brought the dichotomy of the two into focus for me.

If you know anything about mountain climbing, or even basic wilderness survival, this episode requires a lot of suspension of of disbelief. Without a shelter or a fire, Quark and Odo would have been dead the first night just from exposure. Then they somehow go on for two weeks, while climbing a mountain, while carrying a heavy weight, while taking in no calories and no water. Yeah that's impossible. But if you ignore all of that, everything in this episode is great! It's one of the more memorable ones for me, and usually when I think of Odo and Quark's relationship, I think of this episode.

I was thinking this episode actually took place before the events of First Contact with Rapture the first after....makes more sense but I guess in airdate order it's the other way around. As for Jake and Nog I just figured they both knew they how they were being and just let it go once finally called out/forced together but could have been more shown there.

Meanwhile I sprained my ankle going on a 3 miles hike to an observation post here in NC and felt dizzy because I forgot to bring my trail mix...

While they did wrap up Jake/Nog very quick, I felt it was at least realistic. They're longtime friends in a place where neither probably had that many other options. I imagine they've probably fought hundreds of times and learned how to get over it quickly. Cpt Sisko's drawing attention to the fight was probably just embarrassing enough for the both of them to snap out of it and move on. Obviously *we* want more because we enjoy the story, but it was fine for what it was.

I gotta push back - this is NOT a story you can do in any other show. The framework is definitely cliche - as example, two frien-emies must cooperate; the criminal and the police officer charged with catching him. But what trek does with it isn't something you can do without the setting. And I don't mean an alien world and space ships. As Quark notes, Odo is a joyless curmudgeon. In a normal setting, that would be a character flaw, but Odo is a changeling. He's just doing what his species does. One man's fascism is a changelings quest for order. And as Odo notes, Quark is a greedy and conniving criminal, which also is normally a character flaw. But as a Ferengi, and absent the typical adjoining malice, there's a cultural underpinning that resets the norm by which you contextualize these traits. You know Quark is cheating you somehow when you enter his bar, and yet you accept that because he's likeable inside that context. It's simply his default nature. He's not a BAD Ferengi, he's just a Ferengi. The result is a story not where two deeply flawed characters cooperate to solve the challenge yet frustratingly make no progress on learning to be 'better' people. Instead of needing to confront those flaws, in trek you get to uniquely double down, and end the episode with, "I meant every word of it" while NOT feel scummy. You can only explore that in Trek, where cultures are allowed to be non-human. -- Likewise with Jake and Nog, the 'friend fallout' as they grow and differentiate has been done. And so to has the juxtaposition of the one with the bad background switching places with the one from the good background. But because there is an acceptably explorable racial component here we get to see what it takes for a Ferengi of all races to go from petty theft to "lights out at 22:00", and for the son of a Starfleet Captain to struggle to get his plate back into the food replicator. All viewers are inherent racists in Star Trek, because Ferengi ARE different. Just like how Klingons ARE different. And so we are allowed to begin from a position of bias, and so the exaltation of the earned overthrow of that bias hits harder than if everyone was just human. Nog saying, "I'll try to keep him out of trouble" is an amazing turn from S01E01 where he's breaking into the assay office to steal property, and Sisko originally wanting Jake to stay away from him for legitimately justifiable reasons. -- This is another example of Trek using their setting to tell stories that couldn't be done in a normal suburban sitcom. You can't tell a story of "stay away from that kid, he's bad and has a racial and cultural predisposition that in antithetical to ours" that eventually gets turned on its head because you can't ever sympathize with that reasoning long enough to get the pay off of them being shown wrong seasons later. If it was all just humans, it makes Sisko a bad guy, so this story can't be told or explored.

This episode should have been called Frenemy Mine!

There are some holidays that get observed in the Federation. I’m not sure which have been revealed yet, but none are any of the holidays we have.

They celebrate Christmas in Star Trek, but it's the Japanese version where everyone eats KFC.

Sisko says twice that Nog is on DS9 for „field studies“ which seems to be an usual part of Academy education because Sisko teils Nog about his own experiences in his time. So this is not a „holiday break“. Nog is here to stay for a longer time.

I like this one, but it's a bit odd in the delivery. The B plot Jake / Nog stuff is ok, relatable, but kind of wafer thin. Good for some quips but ultimately kind of pointless. The Odo / Quark plot is much more interesting but doesn't seem to know whether it's trying to be funny or serious - the script is all comedy but the direction and music (which is great BTW), make it feel like it's supposed to be a serious survival bonding situation between adversaries. The contrast between script and direction might be deliberate in a genre spoofing kind of way, but it doesn't seem to come across that way...? C+ for me, but the gorgeous location stuff probably elevates to a B.

the jake nog story was very believable their teens of course they are going to argue and then get right back together.

(Allan) Kroeker is pronounced "Kray-ker".

I thought the last scene was as good scene for Sisko. I enjoyed the way Avery Brooks played it. I also think for friends Jake and Nog fight a lot, so I think it's easier for them to resolve arguments and realize how they both were wrong. Plus humans are just better in the future.

FASCIST!

The long awaited 'just the camping' episode!

Solid C+ episode, I liked it but it's missing something, oh yea, a plot. Nothing really happens, Quark/Odo are status quo from the start to end. And the Nog / Jake B story (or A who can tell) is the most cliche TV trope in existence, all that was missing is them drawing a white line down the middle of their home.

you don't have to worry about turning into a reactor that loves everything when you've got Voyager episodes to act as a palate cleanser of disappointment.

„I can't carry it for you... but I can carry you.“ Also A Tier for me. Would have been an S if the Jake and Nog Story was proper finished.

Talk about the makeup - their faces get worse each day so it’s not like they just filmed it really quick. I feel like this it’s nearly all A story and they needed a short cute B story which I liked even if there wasn’t enough time to really go into it. But realistically, if I was shoved into an apartment with my best friend that I hadn’t seen in a couple years plus with no choice, I would just be like let’s forget it and be happy too.

I'm pretty sure, chronologically, this takes place right before First Contact. The uniforms show that.

Re: were they uncomfortable? Yes, but not because it was cold. It was too warm (plus the altitude). They added the line "Why is it so cold?" to lampshade the weather being so nice.

Always enjoy this episode, especially the Quark and Odo story.

Apparently the genesis of this was Ira wanted to do a "Waiting for Godot" episode where Quark and Odo are watiing for something and we hear them insulting each other and interacting and it turned inti this. Star Trek Waiting For Godot would have been interesting. If youve never seen the play its an existentialist play where two characters are waiting for Godot, for what reason isnt exactly clear, They spend every day waiting as they go through a routine of existential absurdity. Aparently it was actually fairly warm at the mountain so they had to use some effects to make it look cold. Shimmerman almost passed out due to pressue with his gear and had to have a shot to continue. After filming the crew stayed in a lodge and did kind of get to have their own camping trip just hanging out which they said they rarely got to do because the schedule was usually so tight.

Guys. Starfdates are NOT like calendar dates. Its relative to where you physically are, because there can't be a simultaneous time across the federation due to Relativity. This has been brought up before

I also feel like they probably shot or at least scripted more for the Jake/Nog story, but had to cut it to get the episode to meet the runtime requirements. Something RDM has talked about struggling with even in BSG after this.

Didn't they dissolve Red Squad after Paradise Lost? Or send them off on a mission? Am I making that up? I thought there was a line in one of those two episodes saying something like that. I'd go check, but I have at least two assignments due Monday at 11:59 and I work that day till 9:30, so I ain't looking.

I think at some point First Contact's chronological context is given somewhere.

I like that this highlights how Jake can be a slovenly human writer in a cashless society!

I love how Quark and Odo each get one glove.

Kroeker also directed The Assignment

"BZZZZZZZZZZZ" Odo mocking Quark with the buzzing sound gets me every time.

When they say DS9's gritty, I'm sure most don't expect to get down in the literal dirt, dragging one's mangled body across barren rock and gravel.

According to memory alpha's quoting of the Picard log, the FC date is 50893.5, but the stardate for The Ascent is unknown. So, this could have taken place before the movie. (In fact, had to because of the uniforms.)

I liked this episode a lot more this time than in the past, and I’m not sure why. I think the mountain stuff was very well shot and they really put Quark and Odo into a virtually impossible situation. Between the makeup, camera angles, acting, and steepness of the mountain, I really felt what the characters felt. Well done!

No tiers can hold back Nog.

Since they mentioned Fizzbin, when Odo called Quark too small time for the Orion Syndicate, i had to think of Kirk calling that one mobster a penny ante operator.

Soooo the Orion Syndicate and the Orions (e.g. the race of the green skinned slave women in TOS). It’s complicated. Basically the Syndicate was created by the Orions and has a large number of Orions. But the two are not the same thing. Unlike the Romulans or Klingons the Orions are politically diverse and fractured. There are even Orions in the Federation at this point. Also there other races in the Orion Syndicate besides just Orions- it’s Trek’s version of the Mafia (in spaaaace) and can work with other political alliances or clans of Orions or against them.

An absolute Masterpiece of not only DS9, not even Star Trek, but media in general. S++

“So, our first reaction since humans made first contact with aliens. We’ll save our opinions on our new overlords until the Patron Takes.”

I'm a simple gal. I see Nog, I hit the love button.

Perfect remedy for my post first contact depression

Hell yeah I have been waiting for this one.

SO MUCH CONTENT I CAN’T KEEP

This episode has a special place in my heart, it partially inspired me to summit Mt. Whitney and is the quintessential Quark/Odo pairing of this show