UNCUT - Future's End Part 2 (VOY S3E9) | Star Trek Journey 436
Comments (85)
When Tom and Sarah Silverman were chasing the truck in the desert, I was waiting for Dom Toretto and his crew to roll up in 3 Black Honda Civics.
Didn’t think the adr was that bad certainly nothing to take me out of the episode. This was a fun little story and certainly better than most of season 3.
Could Dunbar actually be the bootstrap paradox start of Terminator, if he had been a cyborg (robot/android with skin)?
Honestly one of my Top 10 Episode simply because it gives the possibility for the Doctor to become even more of an "independent" and interesting character.
Josh and Alex graduate into grumpy old men and get angry about a TV show from 30 years ago. Now you boys can finally call yourself Star Trek fans. Welcome home!
Eugenics Wars were at this time. World War 3 is next. Then the Atomic Horror. Then some other stuff. But Steppenwolf never dies!
It's funny how little Alex thinks any plot point will return beyond one episode. From the Doc's mobile emitter here to Keiko's first appearance in TNG and I'm sure there are 100 other examples too. To be fair, sometimes he is right but they do bring SOME stuff back.
As an IT guy, the thing that annoy me the most about these two episodes is Starlings use of the computer keyboard. Classic actor that keeps pressing the same 8 buttons on the keyboard over and over - and clearly only uses brainpower on saying the lines.
thinking about it, send ship back in time kill voyager not very federation mind set is it
Compared to S3 up to this point, save for 1 or 2 eps, it's a marked improvement. For the whole 2 parter, I'd say it just squeaks into a low B. I don't have the same aversion to time travel stories you guys do, and like you noted it's a competent episode that keeps the pace fast enough not to be boring. Plus there are some nice character moments throughout, even with Starling and Robinson taking up a lot of the runtime. Nothing groundbreaking, but solidly entertaining IMO. It does seem odd to me that the "second" Braxton would just leave them with a piece of tech from half a millennium in the future. Seems like that would be part of the whole temporal prime directive. But it does open up a lot of possibilities for the doctor. Getting casualties onboard to sickbay isn't usually an issue, but until now and outside of the holodeck, the Doctor hasn't really been able to be involved in any part of the story outside of sickbay except over a monitor, if at all. Now he can actually go on away missions. As he is one of the strongest performers in the cast, I think that's a positive change. I also like that the whole cast just feels comfortable with their characters in this episode. Kim feels like more than Mr. Technobabble, and Beltran seems like he actually put the effort in with his scenes. Obviously Tom, Tuvok and Janeway benefitted the most. But everyone got a little something to work with. As for Braxton's face being lit from below, I think you're overthinking it. He's in a cramped cockpit, there is no light above his head and the blackness of space out each window. Aside from the flashing lights behind him, the only source of light would be his control consoles, hence the light shining up on his face. There's no meaning behind the lighting, just having the light come from the only place in the cockpit that made sense. Solid 2 parter
After a long slog of really *blech* episodes of Voyager, this two-parter was a breath of fresh air. It may not have been the best episodes of Trek ever, but it's so much better than what came before, I *needed* this two-parter to rinse the bad Season 3 taste out of my mouth.
His rewrite sounds awful. I’m so glad we got the story we got instead.
Remember: It's NOT ok for people in the past to use technology from the future because it alters the course of history. Remember: It IS ok for the main cast to use technology from the future because the future hasn't happened yet and I don't believe in fate.
Part of me wonders if the mobile emitter is actually 29th century, or 20th century inspired by 29th century. They imply the former, but considering Starling had holographic emitters in his office its entirely possible he made it himself.
Rain came very close to joining the Voyager crew, but, Jeri Taylor decided on another direction.
Breezy fun. That's how I'd describe these episodes. Nothing important or substantive, but fun. B-range eps. That's okay mixed into a 26-ep season! Bummer the guys couldn't find much enjoyment here. Downers! (lol) Don't know how you could describe these episodes as "forgettable" -- they're some of the ONLY memorable eps in this season lol.
I’m of the option the two parter is only good compared to the rest of the season. The only reason it’s memorable for me is because Sarah Silverman is so incredibly bad.
I guess this is the Episode with the most "some kind of" so far.
many people decide to get a dog and choose to not train it. aside from that: dogs sometimes bark. absolutely mute point of criticism.
Rain’s character is super cute! 90s culture I remember her saying no way …way felt dated even back then. But when she says What’s up that was a new thing people were just starting to say.
The fact that this 1996 had no mention or evidence of Khan’s eugenic wars is not a really big deal. In WW2, there was a battlefield yet they were also still playing baseball in stadiums.
And Khan was from Northern India, so very probably the "quarter of the Earth" he ruled was mostly in Asia
what you pitch as an episode sounds like a 4,9/10 snoozefest this episodes are beloved i dont think they need change
It's almost like ADR and sound design weren't as good on television 30 years ago... You guys should compare this to top television just 10 years prior. Night and day difference. Listen to sound design in major theatrical movies 10 years prior to this! Point being, you're criticizing on an unrealistic curve. Again.
Their obsession with ADR is bizarre. There are so many reactions where they start an ADR rant and I had never even noticed there was any ADR in the first place. Unless it's done really poorly, who cares?
I've been in a vet's office too. Lot's of dog barking going on. Stop being 5 Alex.
I can't believe that they think Dunbar was "murdered", but not Tuvix.
Tuvix is alive brother, he is Tuvok and Neelix!
Not only was Mission: Impossible originally a television series (1966-73, with a revival 1988-90), but for its fourth and fifth seasons it starred Leonard Nimoy.
Star Trek 4 is a great example of how you could make a banger Star Trek movie without revenge or space battles and make a bunch of money.
I'm really glad I didn't leave a take on that DS9, LMAO
My interpretation is that the timeline created in this 2-parter erases itself, the Voyager crew's memories and the Doctor's mobile emitter just anomalously spawn out of nowhere from the rest of the universe's perspective, and Janeway and Chakotay are simply wrong about Starling causing the computer revolution. I feel if the implication was that the timeline remains intact, then it would've ended with Sarah Silverman looking up to the stars or something sentimental like that. As for the episodes themselves, these are the embodiment of Mid Trek to me. I appreciate the production values and direction particularly of the second part, but the story is overstuffed and the guest characters don't leave any impression on me.
"I swear to God if First Contact..." 😬
I have an easy fix for this EPISODE: Instead of needing more tech, the Bad Guy (Henry Starling) , Got Chroniton Radiation Poisoning from being around the ship when it originally crashed. He needs a 29th century medbay because Voyager isn't advanced enough. It even gives him a reason to steal the DOCTOR , only to find out the doctor isn't advanced enough. He gives him the mobile emitter to let him explore the shuttle in hopes he can learn how to heal him. Doctor tells him he can't and that is when he decides he has to risk going to the future for the cure. I loved these 2 episodes when I originally watched them when I was 10 in 1996. However the more I watch them, the less I Enjoy them. The more you think about the plot of this Episode the stupider it gets. You have a ship from the 29th century, and you run out of technology to invent? it probably has a database of unlimited tech to invent. There is tech he used that he never introduced to the rest of the planet... He can easily use the ship to travel around the galaxy in this time and find a bunch of tech to sell. My fix makes way more sense. All the wealth and technology is useless to a dead man. He MUST travel to the future to get cured or die. Who cares if the solar system explodes, he's a dead man anyway....He can say he made some adjustments and he is willing to take the risk. Also, the poison can be used to kill captain Braxton. Captain Braxton after he is found by janeway (instead of being chased away by cops) dies . Braxton dies and warns janeway that Starling is sick too and the selfish brick will risk anything to save his life. You can also add some scenes where Starling originally comes to braxton's rescue after the crash. Starling saves him, heals him, feeds him.... then takes him back to his ship where Braxton asks starling to help him fix the ship. That is where he learns basic use and repair of the time ship. Braxton then hides the fact starling is sick from him and starling finds out playing with the tri-quarter and feels betrayed. Braxton tells him that he will go to the future and comes back with a cure for him. however, they realize they can't without wealth and resources. Braxton accepts his fate and goes to destroy the ship , and starling stops him and steals it and needs 40 years to get wealthy, get the resources to finish fixing it. You can also make it where the last piece he needs to fix the ship comes from Voyager. Why else wait until voyager shows up? why else look for it? Braxton tells him how he ended up in 1996 after his encounter with voyager. tells him that he thinks she will arrive after him. Starling after 40 years of trying to fix the time ship on his own, realizes he can get the missing pieces from voyager and lays a trap. it's from the 24th century but it has the power source or whatever to fix the ship.
Silverman is such a cutie, when these episodes come up, its literally her that comes to mind first as the core memory for this. My only issue with this two parter was the really bad ADR, otherwise I enjoy this pretty well. Personally if I was Paris, I would have checked the voyager database to see if there was any info on her and her future. I definitely would have entertained the idea of bringing her back with us. I know Janeway would have never.. but I would have to try.
So do like Federation time cops exist or not? Because no way would they allow Ed Bagels to keep a time ship for so long or let Janeway's crew keep the emitter, a 500 year jump to tech. It would be like Picard leaving behind a replicator in Time's Arrow and going "my bad, hope they find uses for it.". Threshold makes more sense than this.
I'd watch a Mission Impossible watch-along... or Space 1999.
They could handle S2 of 1999 but no way S1
Voyager sex scoreboard. No scores but an almost one. We have decided to do a alt time line where Paris and Rain did the crashlanding and Rain did get preggo. If so then we have in cannon that there are two people that look the same. Now we say Paris is not his own great great....grandfather but he IS the great great....grandfather of Locarno. That explains why they look the same.
What if, instead of them asking someone to send them back, Voyager runs across the timeship (abandoned), and tries to use it. They reach Earth right at the end of Part 1, then BOOM! To be continued... Part 2 can be a loop, like Cause and Effect, where they have to figure out how not to blow up Earth.
🔥🔥🔥
Another okay/C-rated episode in my book. I grow weary of these. To piggyback on the lemon comment: the juice was not worth the squeeze, imo.
If you guys are like me, Voyager fan but feeling Josh and Alex be checking out, don't worry bros, we got 3 A's in our hands guys.
On rewatch, I noticed how much Robert Duncan McNeil was suffering in this episode. He was squinting in every scene. They should have given the guy some sun glasses.
Mission: Impossible was also produced by Desilu at the same time as Star Trek. Nimoy even appeared on it.
I was thinking while watching the reaction, the first Mission: Impossible movie was 1996 and is a Paramount property. I wonder if they chose to mention the series on purpose to cross-promote?
Thank you for validating my seemingly irrational attraction to Sarah Silverman! It was this very two-parter that started that years ago. And yeah, they pretty much erased Ed Begley Jr. I love his final line "Uh oh." Good thing our Commander abhors violence. :P
Not by yourself. In a nerdy kinda way she's kinda sexy.
This two parter is fine. A solid C for me. But I do love that for once the Prime Directive bites our crew in the ass instead of the other way around.
All in all, its... fine. Middle of the road for Voyager season 2/3. But I imagine it ate a LOT of the budget. Still. Its not all bad. The Doctor got some time to shine.
And got the ability to go anywhere with the mobile emitter
First Contact will be such a blast. Or not.
Alex is always so Irritated by time travel paradoxes. How can he be a fan of „Lost“?
When I first saw this at 27 nearly twenty years ago, I was annoyed it was a two oarter and wasn’t into this sort of time travel episode, now its ok, it is important but I liked seasons 1 and 2 a lot and the best of season 3 isn’t here yet
"Can I get my own room?" "No." Damn, Janeway! As a side note, Brannon Braga and writer Bryan Fuller discussed bringing Silverman's character onto the ship permanently. They liked her comedic timing and potential romantic chemistry with Tom Paris. Would have been a bit of a moral dilemna stranding a 90's human in the 24th Century in the Delta Quadrant, though. But if she knew anything about whales, they might have taken her anyway.
She could read up on what actually happened to the proprietor of that aquarium she used to like to go to.
that Brings up an intersting question. Josh, if you had to pick between being stranded in a distant part of the galaxy or going back to earth circa 1726, which would you pick? I feel like looking at it from that perspective, the 1700s would suck for anyone used o modern times
It would be pretty terrible for a lot of reasons. I'd rather go back in time ten thousand years then a few hundred, at least then there's a higher chance of being left alone to rebuild a little life without worrying about inquisitions or witch hunts or plagues. At least being stranded elsewhere in the galaxy would be interesting for exploration.
Not sure if it was mentioned. Ed begley Jr. would also be familiar to you because he played Lt. Greanbean in the 1978 Battlestar Galactica
The Doctor getting the mobile emitter just seems like the natural path moving forward with his character at least for now, at least to me.
They could have (and should have) started by building emitters on the Bridge, in Engineering, on a shuttlecraft, before fully removing the limitation. Rip the emitters out of the holodeck ffs. The mobile emitter not only felt lazy to me, but it completely reverses a constraint they hadn't even bothered to really explore yet - the Doctor's inability to leave sick bay was never allowed to ever be an issue as the doctoring was always allowed to come to him. No having to consult over coms, or doing a 'good enough' job with Tom on-site, or 'Kes' trying to stretch her legs on a away mission, or the ship being damaged and NOT being able to get the wounded to sickbay
Butter Pecan ice cream is pretty solid Josh.
... wait, was Alex doing a bit or did he not know L.N. (Spock) wasn't in M:I? ... I'm so very very old. 🖖
Voyager comes out of nowhere to totally whoop DS9’s ass this week
The Eugenics wars were in the 90s. WW3 (which is the big one that completely fucked up the earth and destroyed most of the governments) was much later (don't remember exactly but probably 2030s or 40sº
The Eugenics wars are World War III according to Spock in Space Seed.
I think I'd rank this lowest of the time travel episodes mentioned in the discussion: 1. The Voyage Home 2. Past Tense 3. Trials and Tribble-ations 4. Time's Arrow 5. Future's End
They forgot Little Green Men. 👀
37 minutes in. Remember, like, 5-ish minutes ago when Chakotay was telling the dude in the basement about how violence wasn't the solution or whatever, then here he blows the SHIT out of that semi truck? lol LOL Now at 41 minutes, and now he's solving problems with a photon torpedo too
"I used to think violence was the solution. I still do, but I used to, too."
I enjoyed part one, but second part was just okay, part one I was a bit into it, but then 2nd I just was not into it. I would say Sarah Silberman can not act, and she has also annoyed me, maybe just her voice, I do not know, she was just bad acting in this. Ed Begley Jr, I like as an actor, he was also just okay in this.
I mentioned to Josh in Las Vegas that there was one episode I was really curious how it could go, and it was this one. On the one hand, the guys tend not to like present day time travel stuff, on the other hand it's ambitious with its locations and showing us things we haven't seen before, and has enough fun moments that I thought they might dig it. Personally I really like it, but I love fish out of water time travel. I know it's not a favourite of many fans, but give me this over a boring Delta quadrant colony planet any day.
Exactly where I sit here! This had all the same feels to me as Star Trek IV... Sure, it's not a perfect sci-fi story or even something that has enough gravitas to make the story unmissable. But anything that pulled the carrot off the stick for voyager at the time was the ones that stuck out most.
24 minutes in, I forgot about how "restrained" and "low key" they were with the two characters who kidnapped Chakotay and B'Elanna ...... (in a super-exagerrated twang, with lower jaw stuck out) "Cann yuh TELL we're cun-SURV-uh-tives??!" (pumps shotgun) Sigh...
That nice scene between Torres and Chakotay also had something I appreciated that a lot of science fiction misses. He said there were important archaeology digs in the future in central America, worthy of a Nobel prize. You don't think about it, but in the future they WOULD know a lot more about ancient civilizations than we know now... Think of how much more we know now than we did just a few decades ago, and the old weird ideas that get discarded as we appreciate they weren't stupid and had their own ways of doing things that we can't just fit into modern molds
Yeah, I think this one is fine - kind of fun, but not much to it. Not sure why, but I'm always completely oblivious to ADR, so at least that doesn't bother me.
Tuvix gets all the love, but Dunbar is the real victim. RIP. But forget gigantic temporal catastrophes, let's talk branding. "Chronoworx" outside the building and "Chronowerks" inside it? Even their marketing department was evil.
RIP Dunbar.
Dunbar's Number came up
Josh starts this reaction out basically mad at 30 years of fan consensus opinion on Let He Who Is Without Sin... Um… our bad?
I don't believe in fan consensus because often times people are influenced by what others say, on newsgroups back then, chatrooms, etc, all the way to modern reviews. This is how certain episodes get reputations either positive or negative. That's why IMDB scores are bullshit half the time. There's a reason why younger fans who never experienced all that and watching without contact with the fandom are causing episodes (like He Who Is Without Sin) to be reevaluated. Group mentality is never a good thing IMO. There is no good or bad. Just opinions. So whenever someone comments something like, "how could they like this when most fans don't?" (paraphrasing of course), I am sorry but the fan is wrong in even thinking along those lines.
Yeah, no hyperlink on the YOUTUBE LINK text.
Looks like there's no YouTube link?
Fixed
We have to suffer through a two part 1996 time travel episode just to give the Doctor a Mobile Emitter...do you think the writers can unleash Picardo in an intelligent way if he can leave the sick bay?