UNCUT - Meld (VOY S2E16) | Star Trek Journey 398

First off, anyone saying that they are trying to get justice for the family over this is full of bull. First, that guy's family has no idea that this guy was murdered. They think he and everyone else on Voyager are already probably dead because they were lost in the badlands somehow. Second, even if the family did know the guy was murdered, the crew has no idea what their wishes would be regarding justice for that. Nobody, including all of us, knows if the the family would want Suder to be executed, want him to be punished every day of his life and live in misery, or after knowing the totality of the situation, would be fine with him just being kept away from society so he can't do any more harm. We're putting our OWN judgments there, and using his family to justify our own conclusions, which is also messed up. Second off, I'm surprised that Alex is so 100% this guy should suffer his entire life just because he killed someone, when up until now, every single instance we've seen in Star Trek of someone taking someone else's life has been written off as ok. Worf can kill whoever he wants as long as there is a Klingon reason for it. Kira can kill whoever she wants as long as it's “bad people.” Jadzia can kill somebody as long as it's for vengeance and is part of Klingon culture. And Dukat can blow up an entire ship worth of Klingons just because he hates that freighter so much, and to punish the Klingons for making Cardassia weak. But someone like Suder who only kills because he has something psychologically hardwired with him that is part of him no matter what he does, that he truly can't control? That guy deserves to live in hell for the rest of his life because killing someone automatically makes him scum. I'm sorry, but that's like punishing someone every day because they're gay. Suder can't turn off his urge to kill any more than a gay person can turn off being gay. These violent tendencies are hardwired into who he is. He's even taken whatever measures he can to control them without harming others, such as the holodeck, psychotherapy, or joining the Maquis, where again, killing is suddenly ok there. But none of those things have worked. The only thing that has given him any sense of control at this point, is Tuvok’s mind meld, which for him, might actually be a form of rehabilitation that works. Suder isn't sadistic. He's not a piece of scum who enjoys making people suffer, and just wants to ruin as many lives as possible. He's not a manipulator, or a narcissist, or an abuser where he is constantly and consciously making evil choices just because he enjoys it. So the Godfather would say that making him suffer every single day as the price for a quick murder where the victim didn't suffer at all, is a punishment that doesn't fit the crime. He would say that justice for that murder should be equal to what was done. In other words, a quick execution. A life for a life. Suffering should be for suffering, not suffering for a life. But in this case, does it really make sense to punish Suder at all? Punishment implies that your ultimate goal is either you trying to get some sense of justice for yourself, or you want to teach the person a lesson in hopes that they will learn from the experience and not do it again. There is no lesson for Suder to learn here. He already knows it's wrong. He can't do anything about it. Again, it would be like trying to punish someone for being gay. Even if somehow your punishment convinced someone that they don't want to be gay anymore, there is nothing that person can do about it. And in this case, Suder already doesn't want to be a killer. So punishment does nothing here except give emotionally immature people a false sense of justice and virtue. Killing Suder, or making Suder suffer, or ANY punishment that you could possibly give Suder won't bring his victims back. You can try to tell yourselves that it will make the family feel better, but if you'll allow me to put my own conclusions onto the family's feelings; it won't. They still have to live every single day of their lives knowing their family member was murdered. Nothing makes that go away. Nothing takes away the pain. Any punishment here is just an emotionally immature grasping at some false feeling of justice. What is certain though in this case is that Suder is a danger to society. If he interacts with society, more people are going to die. So how do we prevent that? Do we keep him alive locked away from everyone else for the rest of his life? Do we execute him so we don't have to worry about him draining resources? Or do we actually rehabilitate him to the point where he is no longer a threat to society? Since the Meld actually seemed to work for Suder, rehabilitation might actually be possible for him. If not, then it would have to be one of the other two options. Making him suffer on top of one of those options in this case, in my opinion, would be pointless.

Religion or no, I had an NDE and believe there is something else afterwards.

TNG the gambling is basically meaningless. And most of them don't seem to value money..post scarcity society. But on voyager they have limited resources (namely replicator access). That could change how they view it.

killing for killing we're supposed to be above all that in Gene's 24th century future, we've evolved past that. we wrestle with that now.

yeah its like it was mandatory to do b stories in this case the main story was strong enough. This is a main issue with voyager

Everybody on board probably has a kill Neelix holo program

The justice system has 3 purposes: 1. Get the criminal out of society to protect the people 2. Provide a punishment that the criminal wants to avoid 3. Rehabilitate the criminal, if possible This informs a lot of my opinions about just sentencing of criminals.

S tier episode, largely on the backs of Dourif and Russ chewing up the scenery in every scene. I love that with Suder they didn't go for someone that was always getting in fights or had threatened people, aside from what Chakotay said about how he behaved in combat, we see a quite guy who is generally polite in his interactions, just a little odd. There's no moment where he goes crazy and tries to kill Tuvok or anyone else, and he's very cooperative when he realizes he's been caught. They avoid all the cliches of an overtly violent murderer, and instead have him kill Darwin simply on a fleeting impulse. Much more interesting than the copy and past murder motives you'd usually expect. Dourif brings a ton of nuance to the role. And we finally get to see what Tim Russ can do with the right script. Not only does Tuvok serve as a voice for the central ethical question of the episode, but he's downright intimidating in that sickbay scene. Especially the way he was able to pivot on a dime and tailor a threat specifically for the Doctor. Of course, the other thing elevating this to an S is the discussion it inspires, which is always welcome in Trek. In regards to whether the federation has prisons, they almost certainly do. Sure there are probably far less, and in the 24th century federation where opportunity and prosperity are exceedingly abundant, the likes of gangs, organized crime, property theft, and in large part substance abuse are likely things of the past. A lot of the factors that end up producing violent individuals likely just don't exist anymore. Still, as we see with Suder, every now and then you will still have some violent offenders. And of course even the most civilized people can turn to violence when that idyllic society is disrupted, like for example by Cardassians raiding border worlds. Now sure, Tom Paris was in a cushy New Zealand penal colony doing landscaping and maintenance or whatever to earn points toward his release, but Paris wasn't a murderer. Got 3 people killed through negligence, but he wasn't arrested for that, just discharged from starfleet. He did join the maquis, but was arrested before he could do anything. Suder wouldn't be going to a place like that. Not everyone wants to or can be rehabilitated. Even Tuvok had resigned himself to being exiled from civilized society in order to kill Suder. Now arguably Suder had some seriously crossed wires. Seeming lack of emotion, adhering to social norms only out of expediency, seeing and emulating acceptable behavior but having no innate sense of right and wrong, and plagued by violent impulses he can't control. His argument that he should be killed wasn't motivated by guilt, he was just saying it made the most sense, and it's what he would do. Tuvok even said it's surprising he restrained himself so long. If through some means this behavioral disorder could be corrected and his moral compass "reset", then there's an argument for rehabilitation. Some people though know exactly what they're doing, they know it's wrong, and they do it anyway. For the good of society they need to be kept locked away for life. I'm more with Alex on this one. The other reason you can't be too soft on crime is the unintended consequences. About a decade ago here in Ontario, there was this one case of a guy, Marco Muzzo. He was this entitled rich kid who got piss drunk and decided to go driving. He ended up killing basically an entire family. The mom and dad weren't in the van IIRC, but the kids and grandparents died. Then our current liberal govt went all soft on crime (which has caused violent crime to increase sharply every year minus covid lockdowns in 2020, and after we hit a 39 year low in crime in 2013), and he got released after 4 years. Now you might say keeping him locked up isn't going to bring the people he killed back, but his release signals to anyone else that if someone who killed a whole family gets away with essentially a slap on the wrist, then if they drive drunk and nobody dies, they essentially won't be punished at all, and that WILL lead to more drunk driving deaths. Oh yeah, and the father of the kids he killed committed suicide days after he was released. Now if I were that dad, instead of killing myself, I'd probably find this guy, chain him to the back of my car/truck, and drag him down the road till his skin fell off. For everyone's sake, he needed to stay behind bars. We could also look at the case of rape gangs in the UK, which the powers that be have gone out of their way to ignore and cover up, despite the abuse of hundreds of thousands of girls, many of them minors, being r*ped hundreds of times in many cases. All because they don't want to be accused of being racist. It's coming to light now though. If there continues to be no action on that issue, then that's an example of a point where the government has gone so soft on crime that vigilantism really is the only option left to the people. Now if the families of the victims decided to go around and find the perpetrators and get justice how they saw fit, would anyone in their right mind really blame them? Sure, maybe they don't want to catch a murder charge, but if a few of those people get dragged into an alley, get their twig and berries snipped, and get the wound cauterized with a blowtorch, well I can see that after enough of those stories surface, it would start to have a pretty big deterrent effect on any would be rapists. To be clear, I don't WANT a society that turns to such brutal means, but when governments fail to protect their people from the worst in society, they're asking for that outcome. Crime HAS to carry serious consequences. I don't believe in cruel and unusual punishment, as I believe things like torture say more about the person or society inflicting it then the person it's done to. Some people may deserve that, but that isn't the point. That said, a prison cell lacking any real comforts or luxuries is not cruel or unusual. I think the state also has a responsibility to keep prisoners from harming each other as much as possible. But society is under no obligation to treat it's worst offenders like they're in a hotel. Perhaps with enough good behavior or by participating in education or work programs they can earn some small luxuries. But if you basically get put up in a nice 1 bedroom apartment with all the books/movies/video games you could want, you create perverse incentives. If you do that in a country where the economy is shit, and someone is struggling to get by, and they've lost their job and can't find another and may be homeless in a month, well I'm not saying they'd go out and kill some random person just to get arrested and have free room and board. Most people obviously wouldn't. But there may be that one person they already hate. Maybe an ex who cheated on them, a boss who fired them for a BS reason, whatever. They might decide they're tired of struggling, and that getting revenge comes with the added benefit of living easy off the taxpayer for the rest of their life. Even in the often brutal standards of american prisons, some people are so "institutionalized" that's it's now home to them and they don't want to leave. So no I don't think prisoners deserve cushy living standards. Access to decent food, healthcare, hygiene, and a place to sleep, and a job if they want it. There's nothing cruel about that. Lastly in regards to Alex's comment about people "finding God", well if they really did, they wouldn't want to be released, and this is my final argument against the soft on crime approach. It plays right into the hands of narcissists and manipulators. It's another perverse incentive where the worst kinds of people know they can get away with any crime as long as they put on a good enough act of repentance later. Here's the problem. If someone truly came to realize that what they did was wrong, and if they truly felt guilty about it, they would be the last ones arguing for their own release. If someone felt true remorse they would WANT to do their time. If someone ever says "please your honor, I've realized the error of my ways, I won't do it again, please let me out" then they feel no remorse at all, and are merely manipulating the compassion of others. True repentance means accepting accountability for one's crimes, and accepting the price they have to pay for it. If an (in)justice system is always looking for excuses to let violent offenders out after minimal sentences, then the few that truly regret their actions will believe they still deserve to be behind bars, and the rest will be laughing at having got away with it.

Can we get a coffee and energy drink tier list?

I bet Janeway would love to sit and chat with you two. She appreciates good coffee ;)

Not really a fan of how Russ usually plays Tuvok. he basically acts like hes suffering from constipation most of the time. As a vulcan whose been in starfleet for a very long time, you would think he would have his general irritaion with non vulcans under better control.

One of the central questions raised by this episode is what punishment is actually supposed to accomplish. Do we punish someone primarily to satisfy the victims, their loved ones, and society’s need for accountability? Or should punishment be designed around the person who committed the crime, with the goal of rehabilitation, treatment, or moral accountability? In other words, does punishment serve justice, or does it only give society the feeling that justice has been served? My experience in healthcare makes this question feel even more complicated. In patient care, I see people with many different cognitive, psychological, and behavioral presentations. Some patients may be experiencing psychosis, dementia, confusion, agitation, fear, or other conditions that affect how they communicate and behave. No single workflow or plan of action works for every patient. Care has to be adapted to the individual, including their personal preferences, cultural background, religious beliefs, safety needs, and clinical condition. This connects to the larger question of how much control people truly have over their actions. There is a physiological component to behavior, which brings up the nature-versus-nurture question: how much of who we are is shaped by biology, brain function, environment, experience, and free will? For example, a person with severe dementia may behave in ways that are unsafe, aggressive, or even cruel, but we generally understand that their behavior is being affected by disease processes in the brain. We would not view punishment as the appropriate response in that situation. Instead, we would implement interventions to protect the patient’s safety, health, and well-being, while also protecting the safety and well-being of others. The episode also raises the question of whether punishment truly benefits victims and society at all. If it does provide some benefit, such as closure, deterrence, safety, or a sense that justice has been done, then we still have to ask what the cost of that benefit is. Those costs may be emotional, ethical, social, practical, or institutional. From there, the larger question becomes whether the dominant system of punishment is actually the most effective or worthwhile one. If the goal is to protect society, support victims, and prevent future harm, then we should ask whether traditional punishment achieves those goals better than other possibilities, such as rehabilitation, restorative justice, long-term treatment, or secure containment. In that sense, the episode challenges us to think beyond whether Suder “deserves” punishment and instead ask what response would produce the most justice, the least harm, and the greatest long-term benefit.

First amazing Episode in Season 2. I liked the red blinking Device when Tuvok frees himself, where the Light is reflected on Tuvoks Face and than on his Eye. Also the Eyes of Brad Dourif that focus every Second on another Eye and switch back and forth all the Time, while he delivers his Performance in his cell. Really nice.

An interesting red pill blue pill discussion from Alex and Josh at the end there. You may want to reread what the Eighth Amendment says. https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-8/?__cf_chl_f_tk=BbYxt.i_5F7DqH5qmQ7ssd73CCDNb8MvWSI7kkFbRjA-1783155801-1.0.1.1-LlSO6ngzpeyHpxMMdBLLN70Sk6XGiA8di7Baf_3.f0Q

So far, what we've seen of Federation prison is that it's more about rehabilitation than punishment or incarceration for the protection of society.

This was the first experience I had with Brad Dourif. And every time y'all mentioned loving him in your other videos, I couldn't wait for you to see him here.

While I watch every DS9 reaction, I’ve only been popping in and out of this season of Voyager. Of course I had to be here for Brad Dourif. Never gives a weak performance and Tim Russ ups his game in this episode to go toe to toe with him. Great stuff in an otherwise lacklustre season. It also gives me an opportunity again to suggest that you guys watch Exorcist III if you haven’t yet! Dourif at his most demonic!

Alex, since you kept bringing it up, most of your "punches" at serious religion land only for a "TV tropes" strawman version of it. First, to most of us lowly "religious people," your unique soul is CREATED by God at conception, but continues to exist after death. So, yeah, no duh, you have no experience of existence before you were created, but that doesn't mean you won't after you die. Regarding the themes of the episode, historically, for severe and grievous crimes the Church would often recommend capital punishment after a clear and uncontested trial conducted by competent State authorities. There are various societal reasons for this severe punishment, but the primary motivation was giving the criminal the opportunity to KNOW the day and time of their death so they had one remaining chance to confess their sins and "get right" / reconcile with God before they go. In terms of prisoners finding God while serving a long prison term, I certainly wouldn't let them out any earlier because of that. Getting right with God in a genuine manner reconciles your soul, but it shouldn't lessen your temporal punishment and penance on this Earth. When I go to confession my soul may be forgiven by God via the priest, but the priest still gives me temporal penance and retribution to do thereafter. Alex has such an uninformed understanding of serious faith and religion. His mind is filled with superficial stawmans. Hopefully one day his mind and hard heart will be loosened so some faith, hope, and charity enter in, and love will begin to grow and flourish. Lastly: good episode!

Taxpayers dollars is not the worst. Administration's and laws change also POVs change over time. Someone who did horrific crimes can and do get released into the population just because the prison space is low or current pov has changed. Death penalties guarantee that the worst of humanity does not get to be free to co tinge chaos.

S-tier for the acting.

Truly legendary guest stars are such a treat. My #1 standout: TNG - Ronnie Cox

Tony Todd in the GSHoF?

Re: gambling. - In DS9's Emissary, Sisko asks Quark to stay on the station as a "community leader". Quark: "How can I possibly operate my establishment under Starfleet rules of conduct?" Sisko: "This is still a Bajoran station, we're just here to administrate. You run honest games you won't have any problems from me." This would seem to indicate that gambling is against Starfleet rules.

Thank you SO much for releasing this today. I am going to be on a plane later and would have been unable to sync and watch along for a WEEK. Given that this episode is the one that I have been most looking forward to your seeing this year (so far), I really appreciate the chance to watch it now. You did not disappoint!

Thanks for reading my comment. Waiting for the perfect Neelix episode to have the proper context to unload on him in the takes

Brad Dourif has been on Voyager, hiding out in his quarters the entire time… and is banished again to more of the same 🤷‍♂️

I just got cliffhangered on this reaction. I lost power to my house as he's about to Meld with Suder and now I'm dying waiting for my power to come back so I see the 2nd half & discussion.

Honeslty I forgot how good this episode was, and huge credit to the soundtrack for this episode

Now I like your wife! Can we get her to give reactions onscreen? Neelix is indeed the worst.

Their labeling bi polar disorder as mental illness aged like milk

Nothing tastes better than Dark Roast Black Coffee with no sugar, No cream. Just coffee.

Honestly troi isn't especially strong as bethazoid she's only half bethazoid so she can't read mind only emotions

You're decades away from the Federation, low on resources, and you've got a serial killer in the brig... what do you do? Obvious answer, you eat the prisoner.

The reason you put Suder in his quarters is because putting him in the brig for 70 years is like solitary confinement which even today would be defined as inhumane and maybe torture. If he’s confined to quarters there’s a chance for rehabilitation.

I unironically am here at least in part for your banter (which may or may not involve nuts and coffee). However, I don't appreciate the Neelix slander from your wife, lol. I love how in TNG, our inside joke is "Mr. Worf, Fire!" And here in Voyager, it's the Maquis way 👊 Do we have one for DS9 yet? Hmm. For guest actors, I'm shocked you guys didn't consider Tony Todd in The Visitor! I defend Devinoni Ral / The Price too. On the gambling side, I agree with Josh that in the future, it'd be fully legal. Vices are a personal choice. If you slide down the argument of unintentional secondary consequences, you can make a solid case to ban virtually any activity that isn't staring at a wall. I think this is my favorite episode of Voyager so far, on this rewatch. Tim Russ is phenomenal. And bouncing off of Brad Dourif, it's like Ethan Phillips with James Sloyan. Good actors often react together, creating raw energy. As far as what to do with Suder, in Janeway's place I would simply leave him in the brig. That said though, Voyager isn't nearly as large a ship as Enterprise D, I'm not sure actually how many cells they have. It may be impractical to leave him in one indefinitely for that reason, if they only had 1. In the future, I figure prisons would be more akin to what they're like in Norway, almost like summer camps, far away from civilization, but no iron bars, no surprise soap events, clean private quarters with comfortable safe standards for someone to serve their time. For me, prison ought to be about rehabilitation, where possible. If not possible, then it's about preventing that criminal from acting against innocent people again. That said, it's tough. If someone murdered my friend or family member, could I stomach them living out the rest of their life in relatively decent conditions? Ah... I don't know. Sydney Sweeney as short and sweet... which one of you put that in there lol Damn there was a lot to talk about in this episode, but yeah, that's a sign that it's a great one.

"I... SEEK... no return." I love Tim Russ and and Brad Douriff in this

I'd put Enabran Tain in great DS9 guest actors. I'm glad you didn't mention that kid from The Bonding as a great guest actor, because let's be real he's a terrible actor, even for a kid, it doesn't help he's also in one of the worst TNG episodes.

I remember when this episode originally aired and standing up and cheering as Tuvok choked Neelix and then super upset when it turned out to be fake. This is the central problem of Voyager, they refuse to give us what we want.

You know, Spock always had to take a few moments to prepare before a mind meld. Tuvok didn't here, and for a while I thought that was a plot hole, but now I don't think so. I think Tuvok acted impulsively, because his need to explain Brad Dourif's motivation. That lack of preparedness might have led to this meld issue.

Brad Dourif is the guest star. Someone died. Brad did it. Got that out of the way in less than 10 minutes. I cannot tell you how much I loved that. No mystery to be solved -- just a motive (or lack thereof) to make sense of. Chef's Kiss!

FINALLY!! Now I can share this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpVMclplWWU Always loved this video man!

King Abdullah II of Jordan was a huge fan of Star Trek and got a small background role that has already come and gone.

This is a pretty decent Episode. I give it a solid B. If Neelix actually died S+

The special effects department is not the problem with Voyager. They do an asbolutely fantastic job.

Star Trek?? I dunno, I’m just here for the energy drink reviews

Wow, that sparked a very interesting and deep discussion! And I agree about the B plot... I actually forgot that it existed because my memory of this episode is primarily Tim Russ and Brad Dourif chewing up the scenery like it's their bitch and wishing more episodes could be written with this caliber. Thanks for reading my take.

The lack of a logical explaination for a psychopaths decision to murder would drive a Vulcan detective insane. I love that. I also find Tuvok's logical questions hilarious. "Do you have a criminal record? Did you harbor resentment against the victim? Did you kill the victim?" Whom in their right mind would answer honestly if they were being investigated for murder?

I agree there wouldn't be prisons on Earth - there isn't supposed to even be crime. The quarters v brig is about what prison is for? Is it punishment or deterrence? The reason cells are sparse and conditions are harsh is more to deter other people from doing things that might put them there than punishment for the criminal. I'd hope the Voyager crew is enlightened enough not to need that kind of example set. Also brig is expensive. You need a guard, forcefield running, someone to replicate meals... in his quarters he can just do his thing. Janeway made the right call.

Are we sure there aren't prisons in the Federation? I'm pretty sure there are, and I think for the same reason as now, to take away the freedom of people who break the law. I'm sure they're more cozy than IRL prisons, but at the end of the day I imagine a relatively small room that they're not allowed to leave most of the time. The benefit to everyone else is to remove them from society instead of tolerating more bad behavior. Depending on the crime, some get out a lot sooner than others. I'm not sure what the confusion is?

Once you made the joke, I suddenly really wished it was actually Hulk Hogan playing Ensign Hogan.

My 3rd guest-star for Deep Space Nine so far: Brian Keith as Mullibok from the 1st season episode "Progress".

Do you know that Brad Doruf was in a Toto video called Stranger in Town? He had very little to do in it. However he did a very good job with what he had. https://youtu.be/RSeldKAqM-w?is=4yP43r4SsYkSmR_D

Those claw machines, just like slot machines are rigged to make a profit.

Enjoyed your discussion about capital punishment. This is what Star Trek does at its best: addresses the hard issues, causes thought and discussion, but doesn't provide any easy answers.

I am kind of disappointed you forgot Scott MacDonald as one of the great DS9 guest stars,

Brad F-in Dourif! The scene at the end of act 2 when Tuvok faced Dourif and began the mind-meld, i have to wonder what was going through TIm Russ' head in that scene. I think Brad Dourif is like Christopher Walken - I'd be afraid just being in the same room with him, let alone that close. And, oh yeah, S-rating from me.

You are not invulnerable, hologram. A few well-chosen words to the computer and you would cease to exist.

Finding God does not absolve you of crimes committed. No one ever truly making that claim would say that. That means you've seen your sins (the wrongs you've committed) and you have asked for forgiveness AND you are committing to changing your ways. It also means you accept the responsibility for your actions before that point. And lots more people in prison never find God than do. I would suggest that you've taken a completely warped vision of what finding God really is.

Maybe the best or second-best episode of the season. Bonus points for including Charles Lee Ray/Chucky. An S comparison to all other episodes of the season. (although I do have another S) An A- if we're talking about relative to the series as a whole. Whatever the case, I really liked it! It's hard for me not to like the more philosophical episodes of pretty much any series, and this episode does it well.

The Vulcan "ability" to suppress emotion is a choice, not an innate skill. They have to learn that from early childhood on. I also don't think that Tuvok got his full ability back in a moment, I think there was some time involved with it coming back gradually, a little at a time. I'd argue that it was the most difficult choice Tuvok ever made not to kill Sudor in that moment. He had to choose to listen to his training to suppress that urge at a moment when he had the lest resistance to it in his entire life.

Janeway's point was "rehabilitation", which is easier in his quarters as compared to the brig. This is also the more enlightened position, so it's fitting for Star Trek (it's a categorical imperative - Kant - thing to think about). And then, if you don't think in categories of "punishment", you don't see a ship's brig as anything else than a temporary container (in normal circumstances). But 70 years is not temporary. Since this is the logical position to take (Kant), it also explains Janeway's facial expression after their conversation - she *knows* that he's breaking down right then.

Haleigh is clearly the engineer of TA

GOAT episode, but then again I say that often lol

Not watched this yet, but I'd be very surprised if they don't like it, one of my fav episodes for sure.

Loudly shouting his name is in fact the only correct reaction to spotting Brad Dourif.

Really enjoyed that reaction, I've been waiting for this one since the show started. It's definitely in my top 5, and my favourite Voyager episode so far. The score is so well done here, especially the low, disturbing bass tones when depicting how unhinged Tuvok is becoming. The directing too, all the moody lighting and that Dutch angle looking up at Tuvok in Sickbay has got to be my favourite!

Been waiting for this one. The sickbay scene alone is worth the price of admission.

I couldn’t agree more with Joseph Spiros' take. In particular, the acting in this episode was so next level that I almost felt like I was watching a different show, very similar to the reaction I had watching Duet way back then. Like, oh, the show can do *that*?

The Neelix hate is coming from inside the house...

One of the best episodes so far!

Exactly right that trying to figure a great DS9 guest star is a problem since they tend to make the actors/characters they love recurring. I would say that Mary Kay Adams as Grilka in House of Quark really stands out as a great guest performance and brings out good stuff from Armin as well.

Not hating on Ethan Phillips as an actor at all, but imagine an alternate Voyager where Quark was taken into the Delta Quadrant with Voyager as the chef/morale officer. He WAS the cook on a Ferengi freighter (and everyone on that ship was a critic).

There are a gazillion flavors of Doritos and I still like Nacho Cheese the best. Sometimes the classic foodstuffs stay around for a reason. Otherwise, I mainly watched this to see you guys pop for Brad Dourif and you did not disappoint. 👍

The first 4 star episode of voyager

One of the great Voyager episodes- Tuvok amd Grima (Brad Dourif). The violent tirade at the end is classic

betazoids are so underrated!