UNCUT - Improbable Cause (DS9 S3E20) | Star Trek Journey 359

I think one of the reasons why this is such a great episode for everyone is because of the fact that it wasn't a jump out of your seat moment. It wasn't a get up from your seat because I'm bored and I can go do other things while this happens moment. It was a, I'm interested, and enough so that I just watch it and feel immersed in everything that I am seeing and hearing. Case in point, you guys did not speak through most of this and yet you thought it was a good episode with no notes that stood out. You were there, you were with it, you understood the past of these characters, the possibility of the present with these characters and what may come. I think that makes it an S.

Did you just 6 7 you son of a bitch!? 🤣😫

Well Josh, I guess you have graduated from being "just a guy" now that you two are hobnobbing with the actors and getting recognized by other YouTubers for what you and Alex have done here. Congrats.

To be clear, I would have given this episode an A or B after my first viewing. I liked it. I was mainly responding to the S++ ratings I was seeing in the takes, which genuinely surprised me for an episode I felt dragged on in a couple spots. Maybe it's because the first suspect that came to mind when the shop blew up was... Garak. So it didn't surprise me when Odo accused Garak halfway through the episode and it made a lot his detective work feel like filler. That said, I enjoyed the episode more on a re-watch after viewing Part 2. I would give it an S now. In the "VOY: State of Flux" discussion, we talked about how the episode works best on a first viewing, where we don't know who the traitor is. This episode, for me, is the inverse. Where it works best on a re-watch, when you already know the context of the second part. I appreciated Andrew Robinson's performance a lot more this time around, fully understanding what he is hiding and showing to others based on what happens in Part 2. For example, I think a big reason Garak agrees to join Tain at the end of the episode is because the offer to leave does not include Odo. It's a subtle detail that I didn't fully pick up on the first time around.

And yeah...this episode is overglazed. Its fantastic. It's an A. It's not an S. It doesn't have any flaws I can think of...I don't have any complaints. But it doesn't blow my hair back like a Yesterday's Enterprise or Inner Light. Or Duet. I would give the complete 2 part story an S. But just the setup? A. Nothing wrong with A.

I loved Column's video. Agree entirely...though not my favorite episode...there are so many terrific ones...but its top shelf. I love that kind of enthusiasm though...its why Trek has had decades of enduring, indefatigable fandom...and why this thing is gaining traction among yet another generation who hadn't even been born yet when it was made. There's just *something* there.

Garek and Odo both in top form here. They play off each other perfectly. Far better than Bashir, IMO.

Because the writing/acting is just pure Shakespeare I give this an S but it's not even in my top 20. Love that you guys were throwing out Garak blew up his own shop right away. The fade to Romulan green was great :D

2 Julian-Garak dates this season? We are blessed. Julian was so sweet when he gave Elim the chocolates, with that twinkle in his eye. This is an amazing episode for both Rene Auberjonois and Andrew Robinson. Just listening to them was enthralling. Regarding the taking an episode and making it 2 parts, this is the part where Alex might otherwise say about letting things breathe. Don't psyche yourself out Alex.

I had the exact same reaction as Alex and Josh first viewing and never even knew for a long time this was a fan favorite. It was really only on rewatches I saw the magic of this episode. Also I feel like no scene stands out like some in other episodes as so many scenes in this episode are just strong. Great camera work and direction, and great dialogue writing between characters. Odo and the informant, Odo and the Interrogation, Bashir and Garaks scenes, and the ending with Tain just is so well written and acted which is why I always look forward to this episode.

That is so amazing to hear about Gates being so kind to you guys. It’s just wonderful to hear people in positions like her being so down to earth and generous. Thank you for sharing this.

There’s not one episode of Voyager so far , No S , No A, no nothing that can even come near this episode, from both about story telling or acting angle.

“What debt would he have to ODO” ODO is a fascist collaborator. He followed Cardasian rules, which include personal bribes. I would not be surprised if Odo had tortured people.

That speech at the beginning got me punching the air, goin', "HECK YEAH!" Makes me feel hopeful about seeing a success story like this. However, on a downer, more realistic note, after DS9 and VOY, you're gonna see a lot of dropoff. Here's hoping you can pivot to another favored series/franchise. Attack on Titan (subbed) is always one that hooks me.

You are wanting to know why people rate this episode so highly. But you also say you don't want long Patron takes. So, you can't know why people like this if you won't read a long post! I will explain why I do, but it will take a long post! Part of this does come from having seen the entire series. And part of it comes from having re-watched this particular episode, and how it influences the next one. So, you are right that the patron rating is coming partially from the fact that we've seen the whole series. But part of it is people recognizing the incredible writing in this one. You're talking about how it doesn't have one "great moment". No, what it has is one great overall script. The way the script constantly escalates the story in every scene is what makes it so great. It starts with Garak and Bashir having lunch and arguing about Shakespeare. (Specifically, Garak deriding Caesar for not realizing the danger comes from his best friend.) And then someone tries to kill Garak. But that person was sent by the Romulans?? And Garak doesn't even know why? And this isn't just about Garak, the Romulans have been killing other Cardassians, and have a fleet of cloaked ships in Cardassian space. And Tain may be in trouble! But, actually Tain is in charge, and the Romulans and Cardassians are going to attack the Dominion, and also Tain wants Garak to join them. Every scene slowly but surely takes the episode from a cozy murder mystery step by step into what is looking like possibly a galactic war? And it uses elements the writers already laid in prior episodes, so it doesn't feel like it came out of nowhere. Finally, what we also love is the incredible character work. How we see so much focus on Garak and Odo. How Odo feels like he's starting to understand Garak and then at the end, realizes perhaps he doesn't know Garak as well as he thought. And how we see Garak actually confused and surprised, and weirdly see him genuinely concerned about Tain, the guy who has exiled him. The plot escalates with precision, and the character interaction reveals more about each character to each other and the audience. That's why the patrons love it.

You didn’t do this as a two parter?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? HOW DARE YOU!!!!!

In the discussion you pointed out that there wasn’t a particular “moment” that made the episode stand out as a favourite for you. I think for people who absolutely love this episode, the entire episode - IS - the moment.

This two-parter is what got me into DS9. Before I watched a few episodes from the previous seasons and they didn't quite wean me in. An obvious S-tier episodes.

Regarding the McFaddenGate discussion - one thing that can help is to WAY overbudget the filming time if you can arrange it with the interviewee. Many sins can be fixed in post and knowing that takes a lot of pressure off during the interview itself. EDIT: BTW this is not any kind of commentary on the interview itself but Josh's statement about being in "producer mode".

Way impressed Alex called it jokingly. Again.

Nice Romulan transition during the reaction

This episode is representative of Patron commenting bias for S and E. For all the praise it gets in the ones you read, there’s a lot of people like myself who enjoyed it but had nothing to say one way or another and couldn’t be arsed to comment on it. The B/C ranks on this one are probably the silent majority.

As TA has just commented on, for TA and anyone who wants to see DS9 and Voyager looking as close to Blu-ray quality as you'll ever likely see check out https://archive.org/search?query=ldtv720 This must've been a massive project from LDTV720 and these look absolutely stunning using the laserdiscs and later DVDs as a base for the upscale. They are night and day better than Netflix and the original DVDs, you won't regret it!

I love this episode. It’s not the best episode of the show by any means but Garak is great in every scene he’s in, there’s some fire lines in this. My guess is most people rating this at the very top are including the next episode with it. It’s a fun mystery with great character moments that sets up a great part 2 in my opinion. Very curious to see if you guys think part 2 lives up to the setup. I hope so but everyone’s tastes vary.

I don't know if I ever considered this my "favorite" Deep Space Nine episode... personally, that would probably fall to "House of Quark." But it certainly is memorable and the next episode equally so... never paid attention to the direction; I more allow myself to get absorbed into the story and ignore the "mechanics" of an episode, so I appreciate those who draw attention to those details.

Garek calling Tain’s invasion force an “excursion” hits differently today for some reason.

It wouldn't have been an acceptable single episode because Tain said Odo had to stay and that's a big thing. A for me and the next episode is an S.

I absolutely agree that this is a fantastic episode. I'm surprised by the amount of S's (esses, Sses?) in the takes. I don't think this episode is even in my top 10 of the show. Solid "A" for me though. The next episode is superior in my opinion.

I cannot tell you the amount of times I've seen these two episodes. Often just have them on for familiar background noise. I love how it all starts with a simple investigation and wends its way into a bigger setup completely out of left field. All centered around the GOATs of the series and possibly Trek on a whole, Garak and Odo. Not to mention how much these episodes were setup from previous episodes. Tain said that the fleet came from a system that they were building up forces. THIS is the same system Tom Riker took the Defiant to expose. Looking forward to the next.

The auto generated captions are cracking me up. Of course we have Kardashians. But also towel. She are. And Gold Dukat. Poor voice to text program can’t deal with DS9 🙂. And yes, DS9 goes where no trek has (mostly) gone before- still episodic but also an overarching story.

[In case no one has mentioned this yet] Improbable Cause was a self-contained one episode story. It ended with Garek threatening Tain with the contents of the data rod (back on DS9) and so he and Odo would be able to extract themselves from Tain's plans. The decision to expand the story to 2 episodes required Through The Looking Glass to be speedily written and filmed between I.C. and T.D.I.C. to allow time for the 2nd part to be written. The data rod was then turned into the punchline of the joke Garek plays on Bashir.

Really surprised that so many takes saying this is their all time favorite episode. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic episode. Great writing and direction. But compared to some of the episodes later on (in particular one in season 4 and another in season 7 that bring me to tears everytime) it surprises that this episode has so many triple S scores. But to each their own, and I did have a great time watching along

I thought this reaction was good. It was ok. Nothing to write home about. If I had to tier-rate it right now I'll probably give it an A, maybe a B. The episode was great though. Probably because this is a two-parter, all I remember are scenes from the second part. Part I's are hard to rate without having seen the conclusion. Looking forward to the next reaction.

When Garek turns the conversation on Odo and says how he doesn't feel anything for anyone, he probably already has realised Odo feels for Kira he's very observant, BUT Garek did successfully turn the conversation towards Odo and throw him off into concentrating on his own lie, getting away from the conversation being about Garek. He's not wrong, he's saying what he needs to, to get the result he requires.

I take Garak's saying "Is there anyone you care about" to Odo was his way of telling him that "I know your secret". These two characters showing off that they can figure each other out & are equally skilled. Despite it all, I think it's clear they earn each other's respect in this 2-parter.

Cool continuity: In the infirmary, after the bombing, Sisko tells Garak he's been assigned a security escort. In a later scene, when Garak enters Odo's office, you can see he's being escorted by a couple of Odo's deputies, who remain outside the office. Barely noticeable. But it's there. Attention to detail.

By now you know the Cardassian in shadow turns out to be Denise Crosby

By the Prophets, I love these layered episodes. Odo's connections with the Cardassian government were established back in the first and second seasons with episodes like "Necessary Evil." We learned about Garrik's ties to the Obsidian Order, his connection to Tain, and the fact that Tain is keeping a close enough eye on DS9 to know what drink to offer Dr. Bashier in "The Wire." As for the galactic politics, we saw in "Visionary," that, based on the intelligence from the Federation that they received as part of their agreement in "The Search," the Romulans consider the Dominion a serious enough threat to act unilaterally to address it -- regardless of the collateral damage. "Second Skin" and "Defiant" showed us that the Central Command, Obsidian Order, and Military factions of the Cardassian Government have, to some extent, been operating independently of each other, and not necessarily towards the same objectives. "Defiant" also showed us that the Order in particular has been working in secret towards something big, since Thomas Riker was trying to take out the secret shipyard that provided the Cardassian portion of the joint fleet that Garrik and Odo ran into today. And we've seen that the Romulans and Cardassians have a similar outlook when it comes to foreign relations. But, at the same time, we've seen in "The Jem'Hadar," and "The Search," that the Founders are also secretive and very careful about how, where and in what context they present themselves, have a very binary view of order, and don't have the best track record when it comes to proportionality of response. So much fun to see these three factions knock against each other.

I think what they meant about Behr was that this was a point where he kind of saw, ok, we're building a long term plot, and if an individual episode does something big with the continuity, if its too much off the direction we are building to... It was more of a realization that while we are making this up as we go along, we have to get control of the big term plot stuff so someone was keeping an eye on that and saying "wait a minute, this idea might work for this episode but that will force us down this direction and we want to balance the freedom to write good episodes with what we want to set up for the future. It wasn't "I personally will control the direction of this show" it was more, ok, we need to start thinking about how whatever elements we introduce play out in the long run" I did not realize from the first patron take that they introduced the mysterious Obsidian Order Fleet without knowing what that was for. It makes sense though that in an episode like this where multiple "open" plot things are weaving together, someone realized "ok, we have a great way we want to use these things we've built, but let's start considering what we introduce in terms of possible directions it might go in and nut write ourselves into a corner. I guess it means that where I had previously thought they had these big plans all along, there is a realization, ok, to keep control of this huge story with its multiple intersecting plots, we need to consider what we introduce in the future and where it could possibly lead and someone is keeping an eye on that, like if an episode introduces a piece of lore, we want to look at that and think "ok, where could this go and is going to open up directions or close them down, etc.

On the other hand, for some people, if they lie enough, people will believe everything they say. Funny paradox that. But that's a producgt of authoritarianism and Cardassia is clearly a society that is extremely authoritarian and as such what "truth" means there is different.

The big event of this episode is Garak finally working up the courage to ask Bashir to eat his rod.

Enabran Tain is back in the game? Dooley noted. I do love this 2 parter overall, I would say the best up to this point in the series, but I'm teetering between a B and an A for this episode on it's own. That said, I can also see why it might be someone's favourite. The dialogue is sharp and creative, and Avery did a fantastic job directing it. Also the Odo and Garak pairing works so well it's shocking it took almost 3 seasons for them to try it. So yes, there's a lot to love here. That said, it's very much setup for the next episode. But as part 1s go, I don't feel it was unnecessary of dragged out the setup. There is a lot to cover, and the episode doesn't waste it's runtime, but it doesn't provide much payoff, so some level of patience is required. In regards to Garak's "never tell the same lie twice", I agree with Josh that you'll still eventually gain a reputation as a liar even if you vary the lies. Case in point, Garak is complaining that nobody believes him, and Bashir uses the boy who cried wolf story to illustrate why. Garak throughout the series has varied his lies quite a bit. We got 3 separate stories about his past and why he was exiled in The Wire alone, and here we get yet another story of why he was exiled, inspired by the Wesley Snipes biography Bashir loaned him. Garak hasn't tended to "tell the same lie twice", and yet he's still not trusted. Sure it might buy you some more time, but in the end, you'll still gain a reputation as a liar. It really does suck for Tom Riker that he basically threw his whole life away to expose the Cardassian fleet in Orias thinking it was being built to take on the Maquis, and they weren't even the target. I doubt he even realizes that, unless the Cardassians shared that with him just to mess with him. In the end, all the spy craft and political intrigue are the big selling points here. Garak's obfuscation and Odo's obsessions with finding the truth. The man of law and the man of lies as Greg so eloquently put it. Loved Dooley, Robinson and Auberjonois chewing the scenery at the end. Still, it's the next one I always look forward to more on rewatches.

Andrew Robinson and Paul Dooley.. fucking great exposition

The Man of Law & The Man of Lies, I like that quote, Greg. Perfect pairing indeed. Fantastic foundation for this two-parter, I think my favorite scene was with Bashir explaining that crying wolf story, and the man of lies having the perfect repartee. A man of lies yes, but great wit and creativity as well.

Interesting. I guess I didn’t realize the hallowed place this held with the fandom. Similar to you guys, this one is great. But I hardly think of it as the best, especially considering it’s followed up immediately by what I think is a far superior episode. And there’s just so much more amazing stuff to come from DS9.

I'm sure they will hate this episode and the next. I will be as disappointed as I was when I watched their Star Trek VI reaction, but today is my birthday and this is a nice surprise because I thought it was coming out next week!

Josh is right. The way you guys feel about this episode is how most of us feel about episodes like "The Bonding," "Lessons," "Heart of Stone," "Life Support," "Whispers," and even "Necessary Evil." It's a matter of preference. We go "Wow! THAT'S their favorite? I mean it was really good. I like that episode. But I didn't think it was THAT great. It didn't blow me away or anything. I mean it's nowhere near something like Improbable Cause." Although I am surprised to see so many people say this is their favorite too. IMO, I like the next episode a lot better. THAT one blew me away. This just feels like the setup to the next one. That said though, it's very good setup. And it's important world building which is what I think most of us like DS9 most for.

Before this episode, Garak and Dukat were in a virtual tie for my favorite DS9 character, but Garak clinched the top spot with this episode. Possibly my favorite Garak episode of the series.

The Bonding was a solidly above average episode. P. good.

The reason I like this one so much is because it reminds me in a way of Better Call Saul. It's slow, takes it's time, and has outstanding dialogue. The journey can be as/more rewarding than the destination. Also, Alex is (somewhat understandably) downplaying the weight of the continuity. Today paying off a detail like Tom Riker's charge into the Orius System is par for the course on a good show. In 1995 it was mind blowing. Most shows of the time, a few I dare not mention, smashed the reset button hard at the end of every episode.

Shout out to the DS9 cave set who is the frontrunner for MVP of season 3.

Odo, meets his own Deep Throat in this one. haha. I like this one, do I think it is the best, not really, but really solid. It takes it's time and build fine. So I do think it is a really sold good episode. Josh and Alex, you both did great with Gates, she seem very comfortable with you both, and like you said you let her talk, that was great. I did know you both were not going to give it an "S" but I thought you would like it a lot more then you seemed.

Julian and Garak are so Queer coded their goodbye was practically like here’s looking at you kid..

I felt this episode was an A at best. Really nice, but not the absolute best of DS9.

You really switched to Romulan font/color scheme halfway through the watch through, huh? Snazzy.

Why not do the 2 together?

I love this episode and the pairing of Odo and Garak. Everything about it is excellent, but it doesn't have some of the emotional gut punches that appeal to these two. So an A tracks. For scripting, plot, and world-building this (combined with Part 2) it is S-Tier though.

I don't think you noticed how this is a sequel to the episode Defiant. Thomas Riker was simply wrong about the purpose of the mystery fleet.

really liked the layout transition when the Romulans decloaked!

This episode is great, but I do feel like much of the glazing must have been meant for the two parter as a whole... This is indeed a great part one, but not even in my top 10 DS9 episodes. I'd even give it S tier if I'm feeling generous, but not top 10. Both parts taken together I would consider it though...

I think Avery Brooks is the best of the actors who did directing who didn't make a career of it.

It's not even necessarily the next episode I'm excited for, it's that and all the ones after. They all have a different feeling I can't describe after this, everyone says this but ds9 truly starts here. It becomes it's own thing and stops caring about any other trek. I give this ep an A, I was very excited watching this ep for the first time but I was binging s3 so my view is different.

If you like the "plan from the start" thing then Babylon 5 should be your jam. If y'all haven't seen it, I'd rewatch it along with y'all. Been hanging with you since TNG S3.

It’s a good episode, but for me, I like the ones that elicit an emotional response beyond chuckles the best. Like lots of nostalgia, hurting with the characters even though I know the blow is coming, or being moved by an events impact on the show’s universe. That’s what makes want to share a particular episode with someone and say - see how good this is??? I like Garak episodes but this isn’t that for me.

I really had to laugh when Alex mentioned Thomas Riker since the episode where he stole the Defiant laid quite a bit of groundwork for this one.

I'd give this one a solid A. The strength is definitely with the writing and directing, we finally see Garak being forced to admit his past and the dialogue between him and Odo is fantastic. It's one of those episodes where you admire the craft put into it.

Well, building on what Column Meanie said, the reason this episode works so well is because of all the world building that TNG (and TOS for that matter) did. We know the Romulans. We know the Cardassians. We know how they operate. We know what they're capable of, and what they've done before confronting the Federation. So, seeing them (or at least their intelligence agencies) team up is a huge moment in this universe, and adds to the growing fear of the Dominion.

Regarding the whole "if we love it they'll hate it" and vice versa talk going on - I don't see it that way. I see it as Josh and Alex like what they like and don't care for - and I'm getting a grip on what those things are. High-action episodes aren't necessarily your thing is the stakes aren't there or if there's a bad (or rather, unsuitable) guest actor, but you love the introspective character stories where things don't even need to happen. There's overlap. I have a strong feeling now what episodes you'll like and even what rating you'll give them (no spoilers of course). I think I know where we'll disagree. I'm also very open to having my preconceptions changed on a few episodes that are on my usual skip list (Melora as an example - I'm still not a fan, but its not in my shit-tier list anymore), and also being more critical of some of my personal favourites (The Jem'hadar having a tonal dissonance and the weird forced emotional impact of the destruction of the Odyssey). Its why I watch. I like new perspectives on the show I tentatively consider my favourite of all time (I actually had a think about it last night when trying to sleep and came to the conclusion it probably is overall, with A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms perhaps dethroning it if the next season continues the why the first did).

The show has officially pulled out of a bit of a slump. I get the feeling a lot of talent and resources was diverted to Voyager for the first handful of episodes so it would not suffer from the "First season slog" that every Trek show of this era endured when they launched. Once Voyager was solidly established, DS9 was able to spread its wings again LET'S FLAP! *okay ... that wasn't the triumphant battle cry I hoped it would be. I'll work on it

I love how your interface switched to Romulan when that Warbird appeared

Josh “Just A Fucking Guy” sounds like an old ECW gimmick.

Who are you going to interview next?

It dawned on me that when Season 3 of DS9 aired this was my first exposure to serialized tv where everything didn’t reset. So endings like the Season 2 finale or this episode were mind blowing since it was clear that the episode wouldn’t wrap up everything in a two parter

Love this episode!

Odo and Garak - one of the best pairings in any episode. Just wonderful.

I cannot give this episode an accurate grade. As you pointed out, Josh....when one knows what's coming, some level of foresight bias sets in. I would have to put myself back in the mindset I was in when I first binged the series, and Hell, I don't remember lol. Many episodes I watched while drinking, etc. So how can I judge this on its OWN? i do remember really liking it and psyched to begin part 2 So, I will try. As an epiosde with no other expectations....um, well def not an S. I would say, it's an A. Solid, entertaining and mysterious. And Garak. That alone is the price of admission. I will say, without spoiling anything, that REwatching it after seeing the entire series, it's one of those that gets better and is an S for me NOW. I hope all this makes sense. But ya episodes like this are very hard to rate and explain without spoilers. :P

As someone who never saw this episode before (and the vast majority of episodes to come), I would have to rate this one a solid A. Even I, who did not see most of DS9 in it's original run, have some idea of what is to come, and therefore, as Josh pointed out, because I know that, it probably elevates this episode from a B to an A for me. But I can see why Alex and Josh are not as excited about it as much as previous viewers of the series.

I understand each episode probably needs to be graded on it's own merits, but I would like to see you withhold comment sometime until after a multiple part episode is completed. I personally believe it's unfair to grade this episode without having seen it's conclusion, even though I do like this episode on it's own. It would be like grading the first half of Whispers on it's own without knowing the conclusion yet.

The frame transition when the Warbird decloacked is was utterly magical. Great attention to detail!

Great episode yes, but I wouldn't ever consider this my favorite. It only has one aspect of what makes the show so great. I can think of plenty of episodes that I put above this one.

I will never see that scene again without imagining Avery Brooks cralking across the table with a GoPro attached to his head!

Hah! I’m glad I’m not the only one who just found this episode regular good rather than mind-blowing or my favorite or anything. Fully agreed that Necessary Evil is leagues better. Though I think I’m a little cooler on it even than Alex and Josh, hah — for example, the cave scene just never worked for me for some reason. Loved the scene with the perfume interrogation and a lot of the other dialogue, though.

Is Alex still bored by Heroes and Demons? He seems to be checked out again.

Cannot deny, as a standalone, this episode does lose a little luster with repeated viewings, basically boiling down to a standard 'Who Done It?' mystery with some clever twists. Once you know the outcome, re-sitting through the beats can be pedestrian. Fortunately, it's interspaced with tons of great character moments for Odo and Garak, making it worth a re-watch at least on those merits alone. All the continuity buttons from the past year puts a nice little bow in it!

Wonderful episode with excellent verbal sparring between Garak and Odo, in my top 10.

Interesting discussion about what makes you like an episode - it sounds like for you it's more about individual moments that hit very hard. For me, while I love those moments, it's more of a holistic thing. For instance, I love "Whispers" as much as you do - but for me it's not as much about the revelation at the end (which, granted, is great) as it is about the enjoyment of being along for the ride through the whole episode. Or "Duet", it's not about the shocking ending for me as much as it is the fun of following the gradually unfolding truth through the great performances by Nana Visitor and the guest actor. I love this one - not my favorite episode or anything, but probably an S - but it's not that there's a single moment in it I can point to and say that I was blown away by it. It's more the fun of watching things slowly unfold through the great performances of Robinson and Auberjonois.

I've been waiting for this and the next episode all season! I think these are the best episodes of season three. Garak is great and the dialogue is fantastic throughout. I'm also great you guys appreciated Garak's "Never tell the same lie twice" line. I certainly added that to my lexicon. Look forward to hearing your thoughts and the next episode!

Your reaction seems reasonable. I think you nailed it when you mentioned that we have seen the rest of the show. I think this part of the season shines more in rewatches. Also, you mentioned the little bits of continuity and that feels like a bigger deal to me than you. Glad you enjoyed it and cant wait to see your reaction to the next one!

The writing and banter from two theater guys like Rene and Andrew just going back and forth like true masters of the stage, eating up those long verbal battles between Odo and Garack like the full meal the show rarely offers actors of their caliber and skill...it's almost therapeutic. I think Armin would have been the only other one to be able to handle the dialogue with such finesse, and having him as a third in those scenes would have blown the back wall of the set out. Great stuff. One of my all-time favorite Part One's in DS9.

Bareil still getting abuse, lol

As a part 1, this was slower than I remembered, but I love the distance it travels from beginning to end. "It's an isolated assassination attempt!" -> "It's a conspiracy to start a galactic war!" Didn't see that one coming on my first watch. I also love Tain's monologue about the racial slur. It's such a pointed way for him to say to Garak, "I play this game better than you do." Tain uses every conversation to add another +1 to his charisma stat.

Garak gets some of the best lines in the show and this episode is no exemption. "You should never tell the same lie twice" is one of my all time favorites.

It's funny how casually the show deals with the fact that this is what Tom Riker was trying to uncover back in Defiant. Tain mentions once that this joint Cardassian-Romulan fleet was built in the same system Tom was trying to reach and which the Obsidian Order was so focused on keeping secret. Now we know that Tom was wrong about it being a threat to the colonists or the Federation and Dukat was wrong about it being meant for a coup against the Cardassian government. It was to hide their preparations for an all-out assault on the Dominion.

Something about that informants voice made me check the credits. It was Joseph Ruskin. That guy seems to pop up in a lot of Star Trek.

Guys... please ignore all hype for any episode. I always loved this episode, but too much of the hype is based on part 2, or 1 and 2 together. Consider all this for the future also because it might happen a little too often. "This next episode is magnificent!"... based on some tie to the next or a future episode. I agree with your grade for this episode... great moments, but an A at best.

1:15:10 You are very welcome! Thank you for a great answer. Glad you enjoyed the trivia.

I agree, this episode is good.

"They are going to expect to rate this one triple S cause theyve seen the entire series" honsetly no, this was a top tier episode for me on my first watch. Thought itd be one for you too cause it is right up your alley and you also had no complains with it. Oh well, you still liked it.

I love this episode, but I would not put it in my personal top 10 of DS9. However: I think I get what the patreon comments try to say, because a while ago I was thinking how strange it is, that I have seen some DS9 episodes only two times and some I rewatch again and again... but the strange part is: this episode here is the line to cross. Everything before this episode I nearly never rewatch, while every episode I rewatched at least a dozen times is after this one... So, somehow DS9 feels "different" (for me) after this two parter here We'll see what you will think about it in the next year. Looking forward to the DS9 post-series discussion ;)

Lets gooooooo! Top tier ep.

Josh: "No, I will not be divulging personal communications shared between your two favorite illiterate morons and our queen to the biased media. Next question!"

Still can't believe you interviewd Gates, tbh.

Odo and Garak two of my fave DS9 characters together makes this one I always enjoy

Its time for a favourite