UNCUT - Eye of the Needle (VOY S1E7) | Star Trek Journey 349

The fact you love it this much this early is a good sign. Oh, there's stinkers coming, but after season 4 it REALLY takes off.

One of my favourite episodes in Voyager season 1! Great pacing, great story, great acting!! I actually like when Janeway says to the Romulan about his daughter "then you've never seen her!" I got a lump in my throat as she says it. And she was tugging on his heart strings, trying anything to get this Romulan to feel compassion for them. Perfect writing imho!!

Picard, Janeway & Necheyev walk into a bar...... I like it, &..... go !

With the hate or more often negligence the fandom give Voyager, guess I just assumed you two would fall into one of those categories. Its rather refreshing to see how you didn't go down that path (so far) and are enjoying it the way I did at the time. Yeah, this one ends on kinda a big bummer for everyone involved. Damn Vulcan logic really stepped in to damper the vibe. But that kind of storytelling takes courage to do, and you have to appreciate that. Hell, I have a vivid memory of this episode probably soully on the fact that it ended in such a depressing way. Thats story that sticks with you.

I didn't like Voyager in the 90s. Its not that I disliked it... I just didn't bother to watch every episode... I skiped most of season 4 to 7 except for some episodes where I did have the time to watch on TV airing or I got on VHS from friends. In 2006 I got the DVD box, but never botherd to watch more than 10 to 20 episodes... This makes the rewatch with you guys a new experience for me. I enjoyed watching TNG and DS9 with you so far, even if I know every episode and have seen most of them multiple times. Voyager feels fresh and new for me, since even the episodes I already know, have been only seen once ;) Your reaction and discussion and also all patreon takes and the comments here add to my new Voyager experience. So thank you all, I find all your opinions very interesting! greetins Ah, btw. last week I watched one episode on DVD in italian language and realised it after 20 minutes ;)

I am just loving this. I didn't expect for you two to love this Series and take to it so much especially so early. I rarely comment but I'll say I love you guys for real. I didn't watch Voyager until about 7 years after it ended, which is crazy cause I am a huge ST fan crazy, watching TNG TOS DS9 ENT religiously, lol, just life circumstances at the time, but when I first watched it I binged! First ever I binged any show lol, 2008 cmon Netflix was still sending DVDs lol. So I'll say it was marvelous! I fell in love right away and was just as amazed as you two. I cant express again how much Star Trek and now you two awesome guys are now a part of my life! I cant wait literally every week now to watch you two like im watching fresh again. Major Feels! And this Episode... S Tier for sure just as you expressed so well! Again Love you two! 🖖🤓

I have the same relationship with the characters. I feel bonded to the TNG crew because they were my first and it was just them for a long time. But I really enjoy the Voyager crew...I think person-to-person, I LIKE a lot of them more. I feel more invested in their stories as individuals, not just as the crew of the Voyager. I go back and forth when people ask me which my favorite series is for the same reasons. TNG was transformative and eye-opening. Voyager is so enjoyable and rewatchable. How do you compare that? I'm having so much fun watching you guys get into this series. Voyager has a few misses each season but man...they have so many hits. You might actually still have some competition for that top 5...

Are you polite to your AI chatbot?

Yeah it’s one of the best of S1, it’s not an S I’d say an A

IIRC Paris was being granted parole based on him successfully completing his part in the Caretaker mission. He completed his obligation and is now a free man. Janeway chose to give him a field promotion to junior lieutenant, not pardon him. She wouldn't have the authority to pardon anyone wanted for a crime (in this case charges of terrorism) prior to the pilot, she would essentially be arresting Chakotay's cell and then Federation authorities would bring them to trial. What would happen if someone committed a serious crime on the ship now? IDK.

All I will say is that I think a lot of people at the time thought of Voyager as almost a spin-off of the Star Trek universe and not an official Star Trek series thus feeling it was a little out of place and making harsh judgments about the show way too soon based on that feeling and not judging the actual episodes and characters on their own Merit

This reaction post got completely buried. I think the big difference is that I'm not bought in to these characters as a whole. Also, there was a Commander Starfleet who forbid Kirk from going to Genesis in Star Trek 3. I took him to be the highest ranking member of Starfleet

I love the little details in this episode with the Romulan Captain. His uniform, even his makeup and hair, are slightly different from modern Romulans. As well, mentioning the technological achievements and differences, not knowing of the Intrepid class ships... The clues are there of the incoming twist. So good! As far as The Doctor's "Measure of a man" arc? It makes me wonder on the real nature of sentience and self-awareness. Is there a magical spark that generates it, on a meta level exceeding our universe's dimensions, or is it merely a byproduct of complexity? Will an LLM AI model eventually be complex enough to realize it exists? And when would we know? It's why I treat AI right now with politeness and courtesy, even though it's (almost) certainly not conscious yet. But you just never know...

The Romulan government would have 20 years to interrogate the crew to get an upper hand of 20 years advanced knowledge of history and technology.

I know this doesn’t add anything to the subject but I am so glad this series is getting the appreciation I thought it deserved.

I love when they use real world units to describe some of the technology. B'elanna said "Ramp the coils to 37 megajoules" 37 MJ is about 10 000 Watts(10kW), so a lot of power but not that much. A typical house had 12kW capacity at that time (24kW nowadays). It's the kind of "technobabble" that helps me center the technology with the real world, it feels like a realistic amount of energy to me. My understanding of how they view hologram characters/crew is similar to how we view NPCs in videogames and A.I. in the world. It's kind of fun we you want to interact with it, but imagine you go to a hospital that's run by an A.I. and it's kind of rude and bad social skills, you'd probably be rude back to it, no matter how lifelike it is. For Kes, the Doctor is the first hologram character she has interacted with, so she doesn't have this prejudice that the others have, she has more of a childlike view of him. Question: Are you more polite with LLMs than they crew is with the Doctor? What if they were more advanced? The technology of the Doctor is very similar to how LLMs work, just WAY more advanced.

Furthermore, holograms are what the 24th C characters use for recreation. They have inconsequential adventures with them, treat them as fictional characters and possibly are intimate with them... they are NPCs in a video game. Would you immediately think "Sure, I'll let this video game character do open-heart surgery on me" if such a thing were possible?

The advent of "AI" and how much I haaaate it, has me questioning my previous easy acceptance of Data and the Doctor, and gets me to understand the wariness of other characters. And when it comes to "AI" do I trust it now? No, because it's made by humans and we eff things up all the time. We can be an incredibly stupid species. So to trust an AI, an android created to be stronger than me, but created by humans, or a hologram created to be smarter than me, but created by humans, asks me to trust in not just the skills of the humans that created those things, but their biases, opinions, ability to understand humanity and life and interpersonal conflicts... are we still so trusting?

Tom probably doesn't have as much to look forward to either, but I would wager he would still want to get back. I doubt most of these people want to spend rest of their lives on a starship, masturbating in the holodeck

I guess I lack the honesty of a Vulcan because in Tuvok’s position, I might have quietly deleted that info and not said anything to protect the others. Or would that be even worse from a morality standpoint than I’m thinking…? Still, the scene of Janeway moving forward for the crew while you can still see her pain is perfection. It makes one’s chest hurt.

The first half is a terrible drag, but it certainly picks up once the Romulan shows up. It's rather enjoyable in the second half, if utterly contrived to ensure that the series can't escape its premise by the middle of the first season.

I love how Kim & Torres still use their nicknames, “Starfleet” and “Maquis”, for each other.

Had to comment my appreciation for y’all reenacting the court scene from Measure of a Man. I think I’m going to need more TA recreations of famous scenes, please. Also, every choice, every line delivered by Kate Mulgrew is perfection.

I gotta say, while TNG I think is a better show, Voyager has much better characters and casting. If it wasn't for that I think this show would've suffered but even meh episodes from this season so far work much better with the great cast.

Absolutely one of my favorite episodes of the series! Definitely my favorite of Season One.

What do you mean we don't interact with a real holographic doctor in real life? How do you treat ChatGPT? I know people who talk to ChatGPT in the most abusive way possible. I think how you treat something like that says a lot about your true character.

The Delta Quadrant is the diagonal position from the Alpha Quadrant on the other side of the galaxy, in other words as far from the Alpha Quadrant as you can get in the galaxy.

Pretty sure it's B'Lanna as in Shawna.

It was fun watching you two speculate throughout this whole episode trying to figure out how it was going to go wrong. The great thing about this episode is that while we all know it's not going to work (at least that they're not going to get home) we don't know how it's going to fall apart. And all the while, we're watching these characters become more invested in the possibilities, which makes the viewer more invested. Excellent story all around! Plus they managed to make the viewer connect with a guest character in just a few short scenes - I think that is a mark of an exceptional episode. I would totally watch a spin off series with that Romulan as a main character! As for the doctor, it's important to remember that although he instantly seems like a person to the viewers, the characters would not see him in the same way. As far as they're concerned he's just a sophisticated piece of technology. In that sense he's very different from Data. Data was created by Soong to be a funcional, intelligent, humanlike android. Soong thought of him as his child. And when Data was found he was largely accepted as a lifeform. But The Doctor was developed as a piece of technology. A tool. No one thought of him as a person or a lifeform. There would be no reason to expect a Starfleet officer to see him as a person anymore than they see the computer as a person.

Kim hole

An S for sure. My favorite part is how they edged the tension and anxiety. You think every little thing will go wrong but in the end he dies 4 years before transmitting their messages!

It's interesting how the entire human crew of Voyager is so dismissive of The Doctor when we have such an in-built desire to anthropomorphize anything that resembles humanity. You can see it all around us in 2026, with how quickly we tend to treat sophisticated chatbots as people. I would imagine that this same extinct would only be strengthened by interacting with a realistic hologram. Heck, the show uses this instinct to its advantage, by quickly getting us on its side. It never has to convince *us* that The Doctor is worthy of respect as a living being. It's self-evident. The only in-universe explanation I can think of is that the Star Fleet officers are so used to interacting with holodeck characters, that they don't realize The Doctor is more sophisticated. But, then again, I don't remember any Star Fleet characters acting that rude in a holodeck before. Not even Pulaski (hi Katherine).

Voyager can be fantastic when relieved of the burden of rodents in chef hats. Really hit me how Kes just SHINES when not made to stand next to or summon forced affection for that bloviating halfwit.

I absolutely love this episode. There's nothing like an already great episode that also has a B-plot that could be it's own great episode. The "I'd like a name" moment is great, but what really gets me is when The Doctor asks Kes to please make sure he's been deactivated if they transport back to the Alpha quadrant. Robert Picardo's performance in that moment is so good.

Excellent? Exceptional?

I'm delighted you both love this one, i wasn't expecting S from you just yet. I give it high A, and it's my second favourite of the Season.

My favorite episode of Season 1, and probably in the top three this Season for many others. The emotion is tangible.

I also love the very subtle acting of Picardo when he hears he is a Member of the Crew and he says" so will you reprogram me?" and his look and the way he says it, makes it clear, that he is happy who he is, and don't want to loose it. Maybe he sees it even as a Death Sentence. All in such a little Moment. Man i love his acting.

Voyagers first banger. Easy S. Great story and well acted.

So here's a fun fact for you guys. They have recently - just a WEEK ago - come out with a new Steam game called Star Trek: Voyager - Across the Unknown. It basically allows you to take on the role of Captain Janeway and see how you do during the journey of the show. Obviously, it's impossible for you to play it before you're done with the series, as it's absolutely riddled with spoilers. And in case you do play it someday, we should all probably keep it very very light on the details, even as you go through the journey. But this episode does come up and they do offer... alternative resolutions to the plot, let's just put it that way. :) I think you'd find at least one of those alternatives extremely interesting, given your reaction to the episode.

Rewatching Voyager for the first Time is such a Blast! Because my first watch was around 20 Years ago, i had such a different opinion. All i remembered was, that it was a good Show, but TNG was my first Love, and DS9 had the best Characters and Stories. Here i had Torres and Kess which i both didn't care at all. Especially Kess. And now on my 2. watch i really like Kess. Such a cool move to make the Primary Trait of your Character kindness. Man i am so excited to watch the whole Series again. TNG and DS9 were already in my Heart, so the potential of Voyager joining is awesome. Oh yeah, A+ Tier Episode for me.

1:13:20 I thought about the 20 years ago thing too. To my mind, they could have ridden out the 20 years in stasis and then just woken up when their "other selves" were taken into the Delta Quadrant. Easy peasy. But that's part of what's brilliant about it being a Romulan that they're working with. The Romulan Government can't be trusted to keep them alive in stasis for 20 years. The Romulan Government can't be trusted to not torture these people to extract information about the future. They can't go back because they can't trust the Romulans to treat fairly with them regarding the situation.

I like the point that Harry stands out simply by having a good relationship with his normal family 😆 I've actually had this kind of discussion with Trek fans before: in the Federation future, there isn't scarcity. People on Earth don't have to work to live. I'm sure plenty do, since most humans like the satisfaction of Doing Things, but if someone wants to spend their whole life mastering an instrument or creating the perfect cottage garden with a thousand species of alien flower, they can do that without worrying about keeping the lights on or starving. Given that base quality of life, in order to be willing to join Starfleet and risk your life out in the cosmos it takes a special sort of freak. Love that.

Having not watched at least 90% of these episodes when they first aired, I am starting to see I missed out on a lot. I have to confess, the way I saw B'Elanna Torres look at the Romulan, I thought we were going to find out he was her father or something like that. Nevertheless, very good episode. Easily A tier, possibly S.

A personal favourite of season one. Hope, tension, and a sucker punch, plus a good B story line with the Doctor.

Great episode. I always thought S1 had the growing pains that TNG and DS9 had but it is a lot stronger than I remember.

Janeway looks sadly at a photo of her boyfriend. Josh: " Oh, her dog!"

Tuvok says there's only a 1 in 4 chance of the wormhole going back to the alpha quadrant, but that assumes it doesn't lead to somewhere completely outside the galaxy. Still given Voyager is on the far edge of the galaxy, pretty much anywhere else in the galaxy would be a step in the right direction. If it led somewhere else in the delta quadrant, chances are it would still shave 10-15 years off the trip. If it went to the gamma quadrant, they might be a few short years away from the Bajoran wormhole. Finally since Earth straddles the alpha and beta quadrants, they'd likely wind up no more than 20 years away. Any of these outcomes would be preferable to staying put. In regards to the possibility of going into stasis for 20 years, it's far more likely the Romulans would see them as a valuable intel source and never release them. 2351 was just 7 years after the destruction of the Enterprise C. But putting that aside, if they did agree to put them in stasis for 20 years, the damage to the timeline might be minimal. It wouldn't be like there were 2 crews running around for long. If they were released to go back to starfleet after Voyager was sent into the badlands, there would briefly be 2 voyager crews, one in the delta quadrant and one back in the federation, but the crew in the DQ would be destined to go back in time through the wormhole, completing the loop. I think anyway. But yes, this is a fan favourite for a reason. I actually like teasing a way home. You know it won't happen, but you love to see the crew have to deal with being given hope only to have it ripped away. Lot of grief in this episode. Knowing R'Mor will die fairly young to some disease or accident and not see much of his daughter's life, hearing B'Elanna admit nobody is waiting for her, seeing Janeway heartbroken over her crew being stranded, and of course the Doctor feeling isolated because everyone treats him like a tool. Even worse is knowing that Janeway would almost certainly set the ship to self destruct rather than leave it to be picked apart by the kazon or vidiians and let them get their hands on federation tech. And of course there's Harry who clearly came from a super tight knit home and missing his parents. Just a huge downer of an episode in the best way possible. I do love that Janeway takes every opportunity to encourage her crew and keep morale up. She's a scientist and a realist, but she also knows she has to present an image of confidence. I also think Telek R'Mor is perhaps the best example along with Jarok(perhaps more so given he's not an infamous military commander) that Romulans deep down aren't all that different from humans, in their hopes and in their fears as the commander in The Chase said. Especially given the time he came from, his willingness to help a starfleet who at the time were very much viewed as enemies speaks volumes. It's either an S or a very high A. For me there's 1 better this season, and 1 that's about on par.

Can tell me anybody why Tuvok is a Lieutenant when wearing two and a half pips for Lt. Cmdr.?

The way Winrich Kolbe filmed Janeway in her quarters was hypnotic. Probably helps that his 3-year relationship with Kate Mulgrew had conceivably started by this point.

The reason Harry Kim seems so unique as a character is he is completely unseasoned, green, wet behind the ears. It's a nice contrast to the other characters. I appreciate what his naïveté and innocence brings to the show. It keeps things grounded, realistic, and relatable.

Alex, the word you were looking for is EXEMPLARY.

The commander in chief or chief in command (abbreviated C-in-C or CNC) or Fleet admiral which has (five star) and the supreme commander of all of Starfleet.

Got the itch to buy this reaction early. Glad I did. Also, if I haven't said it earlier, I've really appreciated this Voyager ride with you guys. I've always liked Voyager, but not as much as TNG or DS9, and you guys are giving me a fresh look at it that's helping me to appreciate it more than I did before.

The pacing of this episode is just exceptional. Every scene drives the plot forward yet somehow still has room to breathe. It makes it that much more impactful when they break our hearts at the end.

One thing that doesn't make sense about this episode is that twenty years ago would have been before TNG's "The Neutral Zone" - i.e. at a time when the there had been absolutely no contact between the Romulans and the Federation for decades. Yet the commander acts as if they're fully in contact with the Federation like they are in 2371. That's obviously just a nitpick; this is a very good episode. Not an S for me, but easily an A.

I absolutely love this episode. I just adore how they build the tension and hope so much that it feels like a literal gut punch when the twist happens. This is the epitome of why Voyager is my favourite ST show. Great characters, great emotion, great plot. Love it.

honestly as starfleet officer i rather be trapped in the delta quadrant on a federation ship then back in the alpha quadrant in a romulan prison

Voyagers first true classic episode and only 7 episodes in is certainly impressive.

Since you mentioned admiral Nechayev, and I don't know if it is was mentioned before (hopefully this is not another did you know Majel Barrett is the computer voice), but her nickname is admiral Bitchayev. And the actress herself joked about it many times at conventions.

Wait a minute, the DS9 cast was playing hopscotch in season 1!

This (and one other) are my favorites of season 1, so naturally, I thought you'd be meh on it lol. I'm very glad I was wrong.

My favorite episode of season 1. There are three other episodes I really like, but each has small issues that put this episode higher. But I really, really do enjoy all but 4 episodes of this abridged first season.

One word: "cryosleep" I.e. statis sleep. They could have put the crew is stasis for the 20 years, and revive them once their past selves had gone to the delta quadrant. No causality issues, no timeline pollution - easy peasy.

Love this episode, character moments are peak in Voyager so far. Also the Moral Takeaway I got from the end discussion is "Be nice to Grok" lol

What is S tier? I get abcde but S is better than A? Is that a sports thing? 🤷‍♂️ When I first heard it I was like why S?

you can hear the crack in Janeways voice when Tuvok told her the news and she said we better move on

Josh buddy, we're here for ya man - sending good vibes your way!

I'm watching this show in its entirety for the first time with you guys and, as an empathetic person, I'm really finding myself liking Kes a lot.

... and it will get even better. 👏

I will say, I don’t think your very positive view of these first 6 episodes is all that different from the reaction at the time. I’ve always felt that Voyager really came out of the gates firing, and the fan response was very enthusiastic about this start (from what I remember anyway).

Now I can bring up the fan debate: Why in the world didn't Janeway set a course for the Gamma Quadrant to take the Bajoran Wormhole back to the Alpha Quadrant? I saw a YouTube video about this and presumably it would have been a much much shorter trip. The Gamma Quadrant at least isn't on the other side of the galaxy from the Delta Quadrant and it's not like they would be aware of the Dominion or anything that may make travel through the Gamma Quadrant difficult. Aside from "then there would be no show" answers, I wish this would have at least been brought up as a POSSIBLE route home, even if Janeway dismissed it for reasons.

Every Trekkie hates Doctor-prejudice until the hospital tells them a robot will be performing a vital surgery on them.

Tuvok has the worst role on the crew in this episode. Just crushing dreams left and right.

The moment with the Doctor and Kes, where he asked her to remember to turn him off if the crew all beam back home, was tragic and played just right. Not overdone, overly dramatic, or anything unnecessary to try and inflate the feels. Just a few brief words and an acknowledgement. But heartfelt.

Wow two episodes on the same day!? Great work! The score in this episode was also fantastic, lots of deep eerie notes when the twists were kicking in.

I have watched this at least ten times and only just realized Neelix wasn’t in this one

I love the Janeway Jammies

Not to quibble, because I adore this episode but I believe Captive Persuit was episode 5 of DS9 and I believe at least one of you gave it an S

in Greek its Alpha Beta Gamma Delta ...

About holographic people... The crew had been around them for decades now and they know holographic people are just programs. So, we delve into "When does the program... A.I. ... cross the line into sentience? We've answered that with Data by saying "we don't know, but he has the right to choose his own parh." But holograms... they've been around Star Trek for awhile now and Janeway has the opportunity to see A.I. evolving. Is he sentient? Kes thinks he is. And we see Janeway begins to question it also. Up til this point, even we knew there's only been one sentient hologram... Professor Moriarty. So we know it's possible. The fun part is we get to see The Doctor's beginning.

Tuvok, fear is an emotion, check your firmware but it was good of him to think of Kim

Is the audio/video out of sync with this reaction? I just watched the DS9 reaction and it was normal but this one feels ever-so-slightly off (not talking about the Voyager ep sync).

"Who do you think its going to be? Romulans?" How did bro know. He received Bajoran prophecies

What have I done to receive such bounty from the heavens!!

Going to be challenging to watch both these reactions simultaneously, but, damn it, let's see if Sisko can successfully contact Janeway through the wormhole.

The double drop?!?

whaaat two at a time