UNCUT - Destiny (DS9 S3E15) | Star Trek Journey 348

the bajoran prophets / prophecy / emissary stuff is the worst part of ds9

yeah, you guys arent gettig sisko's evolution here to caring about Bajor and slowly coming into the whole "could he be the emiisary" thing? This doesn't require "magical" belief, we know there are aliens who don't experince the time the way we do. You could see the whole thing as yes, these aliens sent orbs and people had "orb expereinces" with from percpetions of non-linear time that become the foundations of Bajoran religions. I feel you may not like how some might interpret that, like... i could see people thinking, "wait,. star trek is saying there could be SOMETHING to some religions, thats totally a non-star trek attitude." I think this is well done in terms of how it's treated but if you're interpreting it as some kind of justification for all of religion, I really don't think it's that. This territory gets very deep but... I think in paticular this is sort for the type of person who is really into star trek who generally have a strong phsyicalist mindstate. Nothing here violates phsyicalism whatsoever. It's critical clearly of the way religion can be interpreted. BUT. I feel like there are... states of mind and insights that a sort of reductionism of a vulgar type cuts off the possibility of. Things like unertanding the nature of conscousness and the world and how one comes to term with an understanding of the sacred (that term being loaded but in a sense that doesn't require any non-phsyicalist things to be true.). It's very hard to explain, but for example if you listen to Sam Harris who is a hue critic of relgion, he also explains how access to certain mental states has a trsnformative impact... and the themes I don't think y'al are connecting with... with the Past Tense two parter and the "spiritual elements" tie into the deeper themes in this show and the themes in Star Trek In general. I feel like it'

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 3 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 Jake 1

FUN FACT: not about this show, but the best star trek story ever made is also called STAR TREK DESTINY; its a 3 partner in 3 books written by star treks best author "Alan Mack". Its after DS9/Voyager finished, and it combines TNG,DS9,Voyager,Titan, and several other continuations (as books) of the star trek stories we know in one huge masterpiece when u done all the 90s star trek shows this are truly a must 3 books to read guys :) its so awesome people made trailers for the book on youtube (dont watch spoilers for shows)

I think Keiko has the greater claim on the Chief's ass. You should see how that Cardassian cleans up. Of course, the Cardassians would take antagonism as flirtation. That makes some parts of the meta story really disturbing, actually. The Prophets do not time travel. They exist every when simultaneously.

Regarding DS9 vs Voyager: While they were definitely seen as competition back when they first aired (and frankly, they still are very much seen as sompeting shows) I have come to see them more as complimentary. They're like identical twins who look alike but have totally different personalities. They go together well and they balance each other out. Voyager excels in areas where DS9 kind of struggles, whiel DS9's strengths are some of the ways where Voyager dropped the ball. Because they are so different, I think watching them together actually makes them both more enjoyable. And personally, it makes me cringe each time you guys mention the competition... They're both awesome... get over it! :)

Definitely agree with the boys - this is a C, maybe a low C at that. Just a mediocre episode of Trek if it weren't for the Chief. And even that storyline seems like a retread of Neela from In The Hands of the Prophets (even though that went off in a different direction). I also hate how the prophecy maps poorly onto the Cardassians, but when it maps poorly onto the comet fragments, the characters all seem to nod and say "of course". No, that interpretation was just as weak as the original! Maybe the three vipers were just some of the gagh in the Klingon restaurant on the promenade and the burning temple gates referred to a particularly bad gastric episode as a result. I'd much rather they'd have gone with "well you can interpret these any way you like and we just proved how easy it is to re-interpret them to match current events". I'm frequently not keen on the Emissary-focussed episodes, and this is one of those. That A plot is very weak really. Onto the next!

I really like this episode, but I've never exactly examined why. Regardless, it's still a solid B for me. It's never been one of DS9's stronger episodes, but it's one that I watch when I rewatch the series, rather than skipping because it contributes to a couple of characters' growth, particularly Kira and Sisko. Unlike TNG, things won't reset next week, so Kira will still believe Sisko is the emissary, and Sisko will still pay a little more attention to prophecies.

This episode is actually very significant to Sisko's growth IMO.

I've always liked this episode (solid B to me). DS9 has made more of a point of exploring religion than other Trek series. I'm not religious really but find it to be an interesting part of the human experience and human history. I like that they make this a big conflict for Sisko - how comfortable he is or isn't at balancing his roles. I do kinda think the wormhole aliens work best when they only gently influence the course of events. That's more similar to real life religions - where all the action is between people who believe different things. No one needs it to go full ST5 lol.

Also, never noticed before but this comet is trivially tiny. Comets are usually MILES across...this thing is basically a boulder. Defiant should have had no problem atomizing it lol. A single torpedo would have reduced it pixie dust.

Comparing religion on Earth to Bajor is kinda problematic...since the Bajorans' gods are REAL. They actually DO see past and present and related it to the Bajorans. The prophesies aren't made up, or wild guesses, they are observational. The trouble, familiarly, lies in interpretation. I've always thought it was a cornerstone of what makes DS9/Bajor interesting: The idea of religion as faith or fact entirely dependent on perspective.

Always liked this one. Its not top shelf or anything, but solid.

🤓☝️ Umm, actually, the Torah is in the Bible (first five books of the "Old Testament") and the "New Testament" came from Jewish people. 😀

This one is a B for me. I’ve always enjoyed it.

Another “Chief must suffer” episode, but in a different way…

Yet another hot lady falling victim to O'Brien's irresistible Irish charms. Surely O'Brien should have been in that Bajoran prophecy?

I enjoy this episode. Fairly low stakes, some nice character moments, and the set up of the relay which will play into future stories. An easy watch.

I will note since Cardassians are snake humanoids and they had ruled Bajor 60 years, you can understand someone thinking they are clearly the vipers referenced in anything

As the Prophets are also the wormhole aliens we saw in the pilot, they see things out of order- or maybe the order of time is irrelevant to them. Sisko arrives and piques their interest. But they don’t live in linear time. Maybe they, as a result of Sisko, began interacting with Bajorans. So they try to communicate but non linearly. This prophecy could have been like a news report to them. But to the Bajorans, who do experience time, it’s a prophecy. Sisko opened a door that the aliens were curious to go through…in a non linear way. It’s a cool concept to explore, and different for trek, but as always it depends on the execution

All I remember about this one was people were asking "is it true, is this the prophesy?" and then I watched for 20 minutes and they were still asking because nothing was happening to move the show along. It isn't offensively bad, like some other episodes I've watched here, but I cannot think of any reason why anyone would watch this again. Dull as dirt.

Emissary definition: noun a person sent on a special mission, usually as a diplomatic representative. Sisko negotiated passage through the wormhole with the aliens that live in it. Emissary is literally his job title. But the Bajorans attach religious meaning to it whereas Sisko just viewed it as his job. And it's an interesting dynamic there. As you said, sort of like Li Nalas from the S2 opening trilogy.

A few solid moments in this otherwise ordinary, but still enjoyable episode. What I love most about it is hashing out the concept of Gods vs "wormhole aliens", and how individuals and cultures may interpret differences or great power as a form of deity, and it makes you also ask, what's the difference in the end? They truly are aliens to humanity, but like Q, possess not only power but an innately different perspective on time itself. Does being God simply mean having ultimate power over reality? Or is there something more, to borrow the proper word from Data, ineffable to it?

This was a fun watch along but oh my god you guys completely missed the point in a way I didn't think was humanly possible (especially since Kira and Sisko explained it to us like we were five years old at the end). I mean I get your resistance to religious stuff, but still.

Something I just realized. The person mentioned misinterpreting the prophecies. But the theme of misinterpretation was also mirrored but the female scientist misinterpreting O'Brien's attitude within the context of her culture. So a nice case of the A and B story (I guess O'Brien's story is the B) having a similar central theme but it not being obvious.

I think this is a solid C without the O'Brien "romance confusion". With that it's a B.

As many other comments have already touched on the nature of the Prophets legitimizing the prophecies, I won't belabor the point. However as Sisko is the Emissary, I do like occasionally seeing him have to confront his role in Bajoran society/religion. Whether he likes it or not, it's part of who he is now, and that's interesting to explore especially in the context of his friendship with Kira. The story with O'Brien and Gilora was pretty fun as well. Holy fuck though, the man could have let her down a bit easier. Just say you're flattered, and if you weren't married, you'd be asking when was the next time she would be visiting the station. The woman just offered to pop a bunch of kids out for you, least you could do is say you appreciate the offer. Erick Avari has been in Star Trek before, playing B'iJik in Unification. B'iJik was the klingon Picard contacted about borrowing a bird of prey to go to Romulus. He also played Kasuf in Stargate. The guy Daniel gave the chocolate bar to, which was apparently so good that he traded his daughter in return. I'd give this one a B tier. It has some flaws, but I like a lot of what it does.

Dax looks great sitting in the big chair on the bridge of the Defiant.

Alex, you made a comment that the religious nut definitely believed in Y2K. The Y2K problem was a real problem. It wasn't a conspiracy theory. The United States alone spent over $100 billion solving the issue. This is a case where there was a problem, and we, as a species, took great efforts to correct the problem, and the catastrophic collapsed some people worried about didn't happen. If we identify that a bridge is likely to collapse, and then we reinforce that bridge so it doesn't collapse, it doesn't make the people who were raising the alarm about the bridge's imminent collapse conspiracy theorists.

To be fair unlike in our world there is definitive proof that these "prophets"/Wormhole Aliens exist and can see the past present and future. as they said in the scene with kira and sisko. At that point it's not really about faith any more. But people could still have screwed up the interpreting what was told them thousands of years ago.

Let's be real. They wouldn't have been the first, and they wouldn't have been the last people to have sex in a Jefferies Tube.

Trial by fire eh? 🤐 I know the Bajoran religion stories are not popular with some but I always found them interesting, particularly Sisko’s role in it.

I think this episode is too well executed to get a C. Even if it was predictable, how they got there matters. The guest characters were lovely, pretty much the entire main cast had meaningful contributions and memorable lines, and what it achieves advances character growth and setting related arcs. It successfully explores post-treaty Cardassian relations, with a glimpse at possible factions that are willing or unwilling on both sides. We take a renewed look at the role of 'The Emissary' and how Sisko feels about it, with how open he is at the start contrasted with how open he is at the end, with a great look at how he's decided to approach his place even if it is true. 'Old Man' Dax continues to cement herself as a trusted advisor, Miles has more 'positive' Cardassian interactions to balance against his recent negative ones, Quark is around for another delightful scene, and Odo's non partisan commentary on the human condition is well placed and interesting. It's DS9 firing on all cylinders. Maybe it's easy to not give it the credit it deserves because we're spoiled for those emotional payoffs that are in such ample supply this season, but those heights can't happen without the foundational character and setting work that episodes like these effortlessly lay the ground work for. Even if it follows a predictable path, examples like this rise above any perceivable formula by weaving so much more around it. Executed as it was, it's a solid B+ in my book.

I give it I'll be plus. I like the stuff where religion and science coexists.

It does get flat with the techno-babble, but I do enjoy this episode. Good points: My favorite Cardassian baddie 😍. Some good funny moments. The guest actors were all good. The Cardassians and big ups for Erick Avari!!

Stupid sexy snake scientists! Stop awaking things in me!

I agree but the fact that they don’t see it as an episode that is showing how sisko will come to terms with being the emissary. Just because it wasn’t all about feelings

Nice to see more Cardassian females. Nice to see Jadzia in the captain's chair. While the Sisko as Emissary sub-plot has always been around, we haven't really seen what it means for Sisko and why the Emissary is important to Bajoran religion. This episode starts to bring it to the forefront. Since DS9 is so serialized now, some episodes will need to do more just to keep things moving and will have more challenges to successful execution.

I agree that this episode is middling. However, I think it was necessary for the writers to remind the viewers that Bajorans think of Sisko as the Emissary. It was also necessary, I think, for the writers to remind the audience that there are strange aliens living in the wormhole, who exist outside of time, seem very powerful, and have been communicating -cryptically - with the Bajorans for thousands of years. This was established way back in the pilot. The Bajorans have a religion not really comprehensible to us, as their gods are real and they can prove it. They have tangible objects sent to them by their gods and can communicate with them. I like the presentation of the Cardassians, though. It was nice to see some civilians, not to mention women.

Three things: 1. Quasimodo predicted all of this 2. Bobby the Brain Heenan was not only the best manager but also the funniest guy in wrestling history 3. I usually skip this episode on rewatches it’s kinda dull

A couple of takeaways: 1. Another episode showcasing that not all Cardassians are bad people. (And some can be strangely hot...) Tracy Scoggins played Chief's love interest; she went on to a play a major role on Babylon 5. 2. The 3 comet vipers not only cracked open the wormhole, but also cracked open Sisko to the possibility of his Emissary-ness. Not, you know, a lot, but he demonstrated his curiosity at the end asking about other prophecies. Pre-episode Sisko would've probably never entertained the idea.

It seems to me people's adversion to believing the prophecies comes from a biased opinion towards religion. But the prophets are actual aliens who actually communicate with the Bajorians so it's completely reasonable that the prophecies would be real

I think it's important to remember that the Prophets aren't imagined gods. They are alien life forms who actually exist and who exist outside of linear time and they have communicated with the Bajorians for thousands of years

I like that the show made it clear that the prophecies are rooted in messages from the prophets and just the interpretation may sometimes be off

This episode mostly exists to justify being able to communicate with the Gamma Quadrant when the wormhole is closed, which will obviously matter a lot going forward. They did craft a pretty good story around it though.

Destiny: IMDB rating 7.4 Josh and Alex - "Forgettable" Heart of Stone: IMDB rating 7.3 Josh and Alex - "Best episode of DS9 so far" Gotta love it.

What I like about the episode is the prophesies are plausible due to the nature of the Wormhole Aliens being outside of normal time, and how their visions are trippy and hard to comprehend. Of course a religion would have spread based on their influence - they are just mistaken for divine beings when really they are just a weird hyper-advanced alien species who are just trying to look out for their neighbours.

It has always been disappointing to me despite how important faith and religion is to so many people throughout time that we don't have better stories around the subject. Most of the time it is either media showing religious corruption or it's just there as a backdrop. I think faith is almost like romantic love. It's really really hard to convey to someone who is not in love or doesn't have the same faith as you. I think this episode takes some nice strides in the right direction by exploring a bit of Kira's faith and pairing that with Sisko's skepticism. Technically Worf is also a man of faith since he does believe in the Klingon religion.

I mostly like this one for giving Sisko a little more character depth than we've had in a while. Yeah, we've seen Good Dad Sisko and Starfleet Commander Sisko, but is there more to him? Putting some re-focus on his status among the Bajoran people does add an extra wrinkle to him. Don't think we've seen much of that other than whenever Winn tries to manipulate her perceived political rival, The Emissary.

The thing about prophecy; it doesn’t need to be believed to be true. If it’s real, it proves itself.

I am going to be honest that Cardassian woman, that works for me!

If we go back to the theoretical Kardeshev scale that goes beyond a type 3 civilization, the prophets would be a type 4. A type 4 civilization would be non-corporeal, exist as energy, and exist outside of linear time. Any type 4 civilization, if they interacted with us, would be perceived as gods. Maybe some of them have interacted with us?

The prophets are aliens who exist in non-linear time and spoke to a Bajoran millennia ago so I don't have a problem with that prophesy coming true. It's not like that BS "Revelations" and Nostradamus stuff, although I won't be so quick to knock The Simpsons' future predictions 🔮👨‍👩‍👧‍👦📺

"If I weren't married, I would fold." For Gilora or The Chief?

"I assure you, I'm quite fertile."

Chief doesn’t make mistakes!! Talk about a red flag for sabotage. Human, Cardassian, who cares? Technology and women fall helpless before him.

Ok.., yeah I get the mid-grade., but there's something about Benjamin starting to come to terms with the fact that the Bajoran's see him as the Emissary, & he might just learn to cope with that afterall, whilst managing to respect both cultures. Something that "Humans" in our day & age often have a hard time switching perspectives, & standing in another mans shoes

For me this is a great fun episode. I love the character moments, the Cardassian guests, the prophecy stuff, and i think Dax looks great in the Captain's chair of the Defiant. A!

I agree that this episode is mid, but I still LOVE it because of the Chief/Kardassian woman situation and I look forward to it for EVERY watchthrough... and who else says, "Bunny? Bunny Way!!!!" everytime they see Good Father? LOL

I will also say that Star Trek likes to eat its cake and have it too when it comes to magic. "Oh, they're not magic gods that exist outside of time, they're just aliens that (somehow) live inside of a wormhole who can apparently do exactly what one might expect a god to be able to do! And Q's totally not a god, he's just a super powerful alien!" There's a lot of times where Trek seems to have spiritual or magical elements but they slap an 'alien mask' on it to 'make it sound more scientific'.

Also, I don't know that the Vedek was entirely wrong. The prophecy appears to have come true. He was wrong with the details, but not with the main strokes. I don't think it's a binary situation of true/false.

Also, Kira's point is valid: They know the Prophets are real, exist out of linear time, and will sometimes communicate with 'normal people', at which point they could tell that person something about the past or future. So theoretically any old Bajoran prophecy MIGHT have been inspired by an encounter like that one.

I think Jadzia's point to Sisko was basically "Okay, you're starting to buy in, so the question is: Are you going to 'chase the prophecy' by sort of following it, where you see it leading you, or will you stick to your original mentality/approach that you carried before this grabbed your attention and possibly set you down a different fork in the road?"

Who states the obvious now? Anyway B- for me.

As soon as the third Cardassian 'scientist' makes that crack about some Cardassians thinking they are better than the rest, it's obvious they are an Obsidian Order agent. That remark smacks of the Political Officers in the Soviet Union, who were part of a crew to keep tabs on the regular servicemen/women.

Bear with me here.....I wanted to make an important point about 'Heart Of Stone', but Josh and Alex are too sharp-witted and intuitive not to catch the implications of the point I want to make (consequence = being spoiled to some degree). So, I'm going back to S2 E1 ('The Homecoming'). When Kira tells O'Brien that it's rescuing Li Nalas or bust, O'Brien replies "Understood". His actual reply should have been; "Major, even if I wasn't married and a father, I serve in Starfleet! Now what do you think will happen if the Cardassians identify my corpse as as a member of Starfleet?! So, Major, if we don't extract Li Nalas, I'm taking you back to DS9. You can choose whether that's conscious or stunned." My point is emotional writing is not necessarily good writing and I'm not going to overlook characters acting inappropriately (or having very dodgy motivations) just because it's emotional.

I think your opposition to real life religion is blinding you to the fact that the writers are clearly intending for this prophecy to be real and true. Like Kira said, these "Prophets" are just wormhole aliens who can see the future and communicate with the Bajorans.

Great reaction1 I'm not that keen on this episode myself, probably because I'm not a huge fan of the Emissary type stuff. That being said, I do think it provides an interesting dynamic to the Kira/Sisko relationship and can be used well on occasion in Bajoran stories when it's there in the background. I just don't like it as a focus of an episode. Cardassian stuff was great though.

The "Prophets" are one aspect of this show I've always been a bit conflicted about. If you strip away the Bajoran religious aspect of it, interacting with aliens that live outside of linear time is a fascinating concept, if a difficult one to portray. However, since so much of that interaction is done through the lens of Bajoran religion, it's hard to separate the two. And it's a real struggle for me not to roll my eyes any time the show treats their religious beliefs as anything other than a roadblock in their advancement as a society.

I like this one - the O’Brien subplot is fun and I do like the exploration of the Bajorans belief Sisko. Low B feels right for me.

Unlike our earthly religions, the Bajoran's have actual, tangible "deities". The wormhole aliens, the "Prophets", occasionally DO interact with the Bajoran people. And the wormhole aliens live a non-linear existence, so they could easily impart information that could be classed as "prophecies". For the wormhole aliens, the actions they describe had already taken place / was taking place now / was going to take place, all at the same time for them. They perceive time in a very different manner. Many prophecies may be cryptic but overall accurate. It's just NOT supernatural. It is a Higher Civilization with nothing remotely like a Prime Directive, interacting with an alien, comparatively primitive species that they don't quite understand..

I actually like this episode way more on second viewing. I took myself out of equation of not liking religious stuff and see how this fits in the lore of the bigger picture of Bajoran society and the role of the prophets. The prophets aren't something you have to believe in as far as them existing. We know they exist, there's no question of that, the only question is do you believe in how Bajorans view them.

i like the scene where kira points out that the prophets have access to all points in time and that it isnt implausible that they would share that information with someone from the past. someone who wouldn't be able to understand the technology/science of the future and writes it down through metaphor. The bajorans treat it as a religion, but the prophets are 100% real in star trek universe and do have these powers. Bajorans have communicated with them through the orbs for a long time. i feel like it shouldnt just be viewed as "oh religious prophecy thats nonsense". it should be seen as, the wormhole aliens actually do have the power to make these things happen, and it's not really about religion it's about a unique alien race. but i agree this episode is a C for me too. there are some good scenes with many of the characters but the main plot is forgettable

Just say it guys, you have an agenda that colors your opinions. Like all humanoids. ;)

What about the Lore!? There’s lots of Emmisary lore here, I don’t think they’ve really delved into it much before now. I’d have folded too Tracy Sciggins is a fine looking woman even more so in Cardassian makeup?

Thanks guys. Woke up this morning to this reaction and the Voyager one. Also agree on the decision not to refer to Sisko's role as Emissary every episode. It's good to get a reminder every so often but at the core, Sisko is a commander and a father and those are elements of his personality I prefer the most.

I actually enjoyed this episode a lot. No one was completely wrong and no one was completely right. Also some great character moments that add depth to their relationships (eg: Sisko & Kira). Also enjoyed the three Cardassians. All in all, this is a solid B for me.

I never believed in prophecies until I realized that the DS9 episode that aired right before Alex's birthday is a Chief episode.

(I'm in the middle of the reaction and had to laugh :D ) "american bible", alex? A church nearby has a copy way older than your country! ;) ;) ;) greetings from europe :P update: just finished to watch the episode. I remembered the stuff with the Comet but forgot the entertaining part with O'Brian. He should at least have said "dam it" when she walked away. Also I think the Osidian woman should at least have tried to lie about the motivation, so that we would not be sure if it was really about the peacy treaty

Even in our time, the problem isn’t with the prophecies themselves but with the interpreters as they exist in every religions.

I'm starting to think Alex is jealous of Keiko.

Remember, a while back, even Ensign Ro decided maybe she shouldn't have been too quick to dismiss Bajoran beliefs. Interesting that her "replacement" is written as a true believer.

If you're craving what you might call a "TNG idea" that religion is usually a bunch of crap, DS9 may not give you that. Or at least, it's a more open-minded show now and then about things. But then again, you have villainous, hypocritical religious characters on the show, too. As I think I've said before, this show explores faith and religion more fully than any other Trek show. It's far from a "hooray for religion" show, but it doesn't dismiss it like other shows might.

I think one big point here is exactly what Kira said. Since we know "the Prophets" are real, and they do live outside of regular time, it's like the religion is real.

Yes, it's a mid episode. But it has its purpose to remind us that Kira is very religious and Sisko is uncomfortable with his role as Emissary.

When the Prophets handed down these prophecies to the Bajorans throughout the ages, couldn't they have put them down in a version called "Visions of the Future for Dummies" so they wouldn't have these misinterpretations? Just sayin'..... if they had used phrasing like "Three big rocks" instead of "vipers", they could have removed a lot of potential for confusion

As a christian myself, I would like to encourage you both to not have a sour outlook on any religion because of your experiences, or even observations, of what some followers present you with. Just because someone claims to be Christian or Muslim of whatever doesn't mean they represent their own faith the way it's intended to be. If you ever are curious, go to the source material yourself. Just my two cents.

You will eventually understand. Once you complete the series, some episodes that didn't resonate with you initially will have a lot more meaning and you'll view them differently than you did initially. At least that was my experience and the experience of many DS9 fans, I believe.

There is in my opinion a bit of a lull in the episodes starting with this one. Not nearly as bad as what it was in past seasons but still a lull. Fortunately it won't last long. And some favorite episodes of DS9 of all time are coming. Looking forward to your thoughts on them.

I was pleased that DS9 chose to include a religious component. I always thought that was the biggest hole in Gene Roddenberry’s world-building: the idea that belief systems that have been part of our society for millennia would just vanish in a few hundred years. By making the Bajoran religion scientifically explainable, the producers did a brilliant bit of fence-straddling. Viewers can decide for themselves what the episode is supposed to be saying. Beyond that, an episode with fun moments that’s otherwise pretty predictable. I remember thinking it was super cool as a kid, which probably says volumes about how it’s (not) held up.

Elizabeth for sure! Shout outs to Jimmy Heart and Paul Bearer.

Michael Pillar is known for "Pillar filler." He does a lot of the inter-personal character work, not directly related to the episode plots. My guess is that he wrote the opening scene with Quark.

Some fans definitely do bounce off the “religious stuff” in DS9. Ben and Jake have a great scene in In the Hands of the Prophets that I think nicely encapsulates what at least I find interesting and compelling about it. Ben: "You’ve got to understand something, Jake. For over 50 years, the one thing that allowed Bajorans to survive the Cardassian occupation was their faith. The Prophets were their only source of hope and courage.” Jake: “But they weren't prophets. They were just some aliens that you found in the wormhole.” Sisko: “To those aliens, the future is no more difficult to see than the past. So why shouldn't they be considered prophets?" Jake: “Are you serious?” Sisko: "My point is it's a matter of interpretation. It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong.”

You also might want to remember, that this isn't really a religion in the usual sense of it being pure faith. The Bajorans might view these wormhole aliens as 'prophets', but other than that stuff, it is a religion based upon many very real empirical experiences, some still happening and actually still experienced by real people, right now (in the show's timeframe) e.g. the Orb visions.

listened to the post about us mid-tier members getting earlier access! So now i have two reactions that i did not expect to react to. Nice. Thank you so much. Edit: Spelling

I have always loved this episode. It's not my favorite but I always like to watch it. The whole thing has a, kick back and relax vibe.

Well, I think it's a bit unfair calling the Vedek a conspiracy theorist. These prophecies are visions out of time, revealed to Bajorian people often ill equipped by their own knowledge and experience, who did their best to explain what they had seen. Imagine if 3000 years ago, a human of the 18th century had been granted visions of important events of the 21st century. I bet they'd be just as muddled and difficult to interpret correctly, especially before the actual events take place. Plus - it is a sign of a healthy and rational mind, that one can change one's mind to suit new facts, new understanding of reality. The Vedek did that. He did not just fanatically cling to his earlier belief, no matter what. I have to respect that.

Okay well in Life Support I remember you were watching Kai Winn call SIsko Emissary and then Josh says "she keeps calling him that, I don't know what it means". And its not something you talked about before but yeah I guess I was wrong and you knew about it.

I’m just here to see O’Brien Rizz up that hot Cardassian