UNCUT - Past Tense Part 1 & 2 (DS9 S3E11-12) | Star Trek Journey 340

Wow absolutely terrible take. lol this episode is easily a B at worst.

The point isnt "poverty is bad". Its about hope and apathy. Which is one of the major "spiritual" themse of the show you guys arent connecting with. This ties into the whole "emmissary" stuff. and deeper, the themes of Star Trek. At this point, the show is very aware of the "utopian trek" thing and is asking questions about it, what does it mean to acheive that, what kind of spiritual state does it require? This is a gret two parter, one can I watch again and again in isolaton from the larger show.

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 3 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 Jake 1

I agree completely with J & A on this one. It was boring and pretentious in the 90's when it aired, and it's equally boring and pretentious now. A better script, pacing, plot....something. This one just didn't work.

Wealthy people in show business making scolds of themselves ... what could go wrong?

Preachy and woke episode, imo. Exactly why current trek has been ruined. People of josh and alex's generation are sick of being lectured at/too. Frankly so are most of us in america. Sorry if i ruined any future trek with spoilers. And as far as all these political comments and trolls, please find somewhere else to go with your political opinions. There are plenty of places in todays marketplaces you can troll all day long to your hearts desire. This is a reaction channel. And a good one with real people that have honest opinions. EVERYONE has a right to enjoy an episode or not, to each his own. Sometimes i agree with them other times i dont but i enjoy their channel. The constant ragging on these guys, usually by the same patrons, is starting to become ridiculous. You dont like their opinions then you are free to not watch it, no one is forcing you to watch. TA boys keep up the good work!!

Maybe the reason you don't like this one so much is because it's basically current day America

(Comment after part 2) I am confused that Josh and Alex don't see Star Trek IV as majorly activist. Are they not aware of the 1970's/1980's "Save the Whales" environmentalist campaign that eventually drove the 1986 global ban on commercial whaling? Star Trek IV carries the water of that huge environmentalist movement the whole movie. Humanity's future hangs in the balance on whether they can "Save the Whales". I can only imagine they are too young to have the historical context, which surprises me, given I am not that much older than them. On whether this episode is woke: Woke: alert to racial prejudice, discrimination, and systemic injustice. This episode takes on discrimination and particularly systemic injustice head-on. Part of your problem with this episode is how blunt it is with this message. It definitely qualifies as woke. The patron who calls it woke isn't expanding the definition at all. Josh and Alex keep flip-flopping between: I hate episodes which have moral grand-standing / are preachy and Some of our favorite episodes are preachy, the difference is whether is was executed well. These are contradictory points of views. I am hoping you believe the second one. It is the point of view Josh pushes towards the further the discussion goes on. But Alex in particular keeps coming back to "it was bad because it was grand-standing", which is a particularly baffling take to have on the humanist progressive space-communist show. Spock being mixed-race was a choice they made so they could be preachy. Having a Russian on the bridge of the Enterprise at the height of the Cold War was preachy. Casting a Japanese American concentration camp survivor was done to be preachy. If you don't like preachy... what are we doing here guys?

(Comment after part 1) Alex watches The Measure of a Man, which preaches at him slavery is bad. Doesn't realize he is being preached to. Loves it. Alex watches I, Borg, which preaches at him genocide is bad. Doesn't realize he is being preached to. Loves it. Alex watches Past Tense , which preaches to him about how wealth inequality and oligarchy is bad. I don't think he realizes what he is being preached about, but does realize he is being preached to. F'in hates it. A huge percentage of Trek episodes preach a progressive humanist message. Literally the goal of the franchise. And a large number of them aren't subtle. The Measure of a Man, Picard literally says the message out loud half-way through the episode. The Drum Head doesn't hide the McCarthyism parallels at all. Kirk fighting Nazis, Saving the Whales, and witnessing the race war between the Cheron. None of it subtle. That all being said, yeah, there are some problems with the episode for sure. I don't think the technobabble is that bad. There isn't that much of it. It does get an eyeroll, especially since one character delivers basically all of it. The guest actor for the "ghost" is terrible. The pace is slow as all hell, because they are clearly stretching an insufficient amount of material to two parts. To Josh's point that setting it in 2024 is a cop out. It is set then to show us where things will be in 30 years if we don't take corrective action. And given that the first trillionaire is imminent while people starve, I think they got it spot-on. We are now in the future where we didn't learn the lesson from this episode.

You love Subrosa but you guys don’t like this? Hahaha I enjoyed this one and is a favorite. Of course not perfect but far better than subrosa or Meridian

Nevermind you guys glossing over the fact that DS9 predicted the future! Yes, I get that there is A LOT of exposition but they are telling you the back story of how the federation came to be. That things had to get worse to get better. I thought you guys liked the back stories.

Damn, guess I'm one of the few that actually loves these episodes? I didn't know so many people didn't like them. There's also nothing wrong with being woke, but yes that really does depend on how you personally define woke. I found the ending discussion really interesting, because some of the best episodes, like Measure of a Man, are inherently aligning with a political belief. The ideals presented in trek episodes, the view of what the future could be, the qualities inherent in the characters, are all political in some fashion. I think maybe their is some confusion of partisanship and politics? Almost sounds like you think politics is picking a political party. It's striking for me because I've listened to you guys do exactly what you are saying you don't do there at the end. Our political ideals, just like our perspectives and moral values, shape what we like and why we like it.

White knight on blue sky? wtf Alex. What is wrong with BlueSky

I have not seen these episodes since they originally aired in January 1995. I wouldn’t say I loved it back then but I remembered it enough to appreciate all the Gabriel Bell memes back in 2024. I definitely didn’t remember how slow boring part 1 is, it’s like watching paint dry 😴

I’m sure I’ll catch grief for this, but it was pretty crazy to see a SAG card carrying actor whose acting is actually worse than Avery Brooks! RIP, Mouthman.

Just finished part two’s reaction and decided to gloss over a few of the 650 comments! Jesus, guys…you sure scorched the earth with this reaction! Your frustrations with this episode mirror my frustrations with DS9 in general. I haven’t been as enamored with this season as you have. That being said, I agree with most of your comments about this episode. Star Trek has always been about holding a mirror up to society’s problems and providing commentary, but it’s always best when it’s done in a sublime way…not so in your face with “DO BETTER!” in neon. Personally, I had fun watching Alex shut down and Josh trying to find the good wherever he could in this episode! Keep being honest, guys! Now to get back to these fucking hilarious comments! 🖖😆

3 days later after The Incident, I see this note on Memory Alpha about the episodes and it makes me laugh: "Ira Steven Behr was disappointed by the lack of media interest in this episode. "When we did 'Past Tense', I expected all this media attention and the little media attention we got was almost entirely negative," he explained. "The fan reaction was great.""

I believe, when the show aired, Brynner was probably a reference to Bill Gates and/or Steve Jobs.

I just finished part one of your reaction, guys!! I just had to chime in…Alex damn near made me piss myself laughing so hard mimicking that one shitty actor’s mouth movements!! I remember doing the exact same thing in 1995!! Take my Patreon money…that made it all worth it!! 👏😂

I think the concept was okay, but this was a dull, uninteresting part one.

I come in 3 days late and see 643 comments. I feel like Antman in Endgame when he's looking around asking "What happened here?"

I've been waiting for YT edits of DS9 bc of my schedule. I got Interested to look at the comments…holy shit what'd you guys do??

“But humanity is bad today Josh, granted none of the people making this show were doing anything about it, but they’re going to tell us. I’m sure on the way to work that day they walked by all of these people in California, with their blinders on. ‘I’m going to write about saving you, I’m going to write about your plight’.” - Alex The notion that the writers or makers of the series are elitists is ridiculous. I said as much when you first posted this reaction and my response was deleted. Along with more than a few others that I saw posted that were echoing my sentiments. Also deleted. I have to say that it was really an ugly look to have this level of vitriol happen with such a mediocre episode in an otherwise great TV series. Everything I've seen from the writers room from this show behind the scenes has conveyed some of the most well intentioned and thought out and thoughtful storylines. That quote above and the sentiment behind it is such a blight on your channel in my opinion.

Usually enjoy your reactions but this one for me was pretty bad,I could see you didn't care for it in the first 10 minutes. I get it fine. But you complained and sniggered throughout. Wasn't an enjoyable watchalong sorry.

Fascinating.

I love your reactions, even if I disagree. It's refreshing that your reactions are real and not bullshit to try to get more "likes". I happen to agree on these episodes. I think they are fucking boring, but even if I disagree, I don't care, your reactions are yours, and they're real. I don't need you to like everything I do. That's not realistic. If I was watching with friends, which is how you guys make it feel, we're not all going to agree. Keep doing what you're doing. Your honesty and pure reactions, even when you hate it, is refreshing

You guys are normally fun and balanced with your reviews This one was two edgelords whining

500 comments lol!!! To everyone mad about the reaction to this two parter: I certainly don’t mind the episodes, but even Ira Steven Behr, the blue goatee himself, has gone on record saying he thinks it’s a stinker 🤣

I was 21 years old when this came out and I thought it was meh, but that’s Star Trek at times. It has moral allegory with cheesy exposition that can be rather pedestrian and self-righteous but it didn’t deviate much from the characters basic personality and character persona. Modern trek deconstructs canon and is far worse at being preachy. I didn’t hate it as much as Josh and Alex; but then again I’m a “cheap date” when it comes to being entertained. It takes a lot for me to hate some show or episode. But I appreciate Josh and Alex’s honest takes even if I don’t agree with them.

I didn't like this episode either and found some of the writing on the nose and preachy. Good to see you agree 😂

I here your grievances... but basically.., it was a commentary on the LA riots of 1992. When four Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) officers were acquitted in state court for the beating of Rodney King which lead to his death. The city erupted into what was almost a week of violence that would result in more than 50 people losing their lives. Scholars now describe that rioting as an "explosion of rage and frustration" that had been building. I don't mind the exposition for what it is... A Social Commentry on this theme... Sometimes truth IS stranger than fiction.., As far as episode craft does. albeit the pacing, the overly long monologing & sometimes questionable guest acting did leave a bit more to be desired. overall - I don't think i disliked the subject matter as much as TA seemed to on this one. It hits C+ into a Low B for me

Dang I’m often on the same page as you guys. ST3 was the best movie. And this was not the best anything. I wonder how many praised this because they thought they ought to. Execution matters. I found this kinda dull, irrespective of the topic.

Media literacy folks crashing out

This was a failed attempt to remake "The City on the Edge of Forever." Instead of Nazi's as the evil it was the division between the wealthy and poor, not enough government spending, trapping people in downtrodden cities? Not sure even know the enemy here. To gain any 70% accuracy with 2024 you might need a Distict A "Learing Center" where billions are funneled away from these citizens. Or a Biolab where they are injecting citizens. I know no time for that in these two hours of preach. Glad it is over and I can move forward with forgetting about it all over again. Ironic as that is the opposite of the point they tried to make.

Oof. I'm waiting for the edited, but sounds like it's a rough one and gonna be a controversial one once released into the wild. I'll try to be ready for a coherent concise response when the TA rating for edited comes up.

I thought this 2 parter was really good.

At 53 years old, I am Josh and Alex... I have seen variations of this in real life and tv too many times. However, 23 year old me really liked this episode. And in 2024 I was surprised how many things were similar.

I am in the position to be in the middle on this controversy, I get completely why Josh and Alex hated it, but I also understand those in the comments saying the guys went too far in their dislike, I say again that is the only or biggest downside to seeing people see things the first time, there are episodes we all hated the first time but aren’t as bad now, I never like seeing something new when others are around, while I think most of us should have known how they would feel, I always considered the episodes middle sort of episode myself, I didn’t think the acting was that bad, could it have been better, yes. But its not. So now we can move on to see Voyager. Sadly the next DS9 for us with the guys is two weeks away but that will give things a chance to ease. (I will start now preparing a take for an episode I feel the same about coming in a few years) as an aside, I am only 43 but I have never been one for lingo, it usually goes wrong when I try, so there are times I have to look up more modern slang/jargon here, so sorry if I misunderstand slang/jargon sometimes, I watch Trek and mythbusters, I am a geek approaching middle age. (And I have nieces and nephews between 26 and 13 so they don’t and haven’t used a lot of slang around me either.)

I kinda lived through something very similar as a kid. Not a prisoner but might as well have been. Horrible conditions, beatings and murders where I lived, money useless due to hyperinflation, lines for government bread and milk handout. And I couldn't help but think "Oh their food is slightly better and they have 3 meals a day", or "Oh they have people helping them find jobs so they can eventually leave outside into a still normal city". I understood very well intellectually that what I was seeing was horrible and that a healthy society should not allow this to get so bad, but emotionally I just couldn't find myself to care. I would have expected to connect more to this but I didn't. At all. I hope it's just because of terrible execution. It just felt so like fake TV preaching from people who just don't get it how the real thing would look like. Anyway this episode gets a D from me. I still think E is too harsh, nothing that egregious in it.

Alex, think of it less as entitled, snobby writers talking down to you about poverty, and more as strung-out, over-worked, underpaid 9-5er staff writers using millions of their studio and advertiser boss's money to tell a story about how the rich and powerful put in place systems to maintain an unviable status quo and the only way to fix it is to riot against those systems and expose the rich snobs for the a-holes they are.

My understanding time-line wise was that WW3 was sometime around 2050-2060, the 90's war the lads are talking about I believe was the eugenics wars with Kahn leading an army of superhumans to take over. Maybe they did retcon it though, I've watched TNG DS9 VOY & ENTERPRISE a dozen times over but TOS only once or twice, so maybe they did originally say WW3 was in the 90's. Generally agree with you about the problems with the episode, not an E in my opinion but probably a C. Although as a Brit, my experience of the 90's and specifically American Society at that time doesn't feel as close to home, so it always seemed like a wild "What if" episode, not realising the real issues it was highlighting.

Oh, I'm also sorry there's been such crappy modern "issue" writing that has ruined the way this episode tackled things. This is far less egregious when you haven't seen a thousand bad imitations of it that take anything that would've been innovative about this writing and retroactively flattened it. So yes. Most of your complaints about the social message fell flat to me at best, or were/are petty and pouty at worst, but I'll grant you flat cinematography, questionable character work from some of the guest stars and pacing issues. But I don't find the plot boring and liked learning more about the Days of Future's Past.

I just watched you reacting to Part one, and your reaction perplexes me. You of all people to complain about Afterschool Special writng, when you lost your minds over stuff like Worf doesn't know how to be a good dad when Alexander doesnt want to pick up after himself, and Data's daughter is just too pure to live in such an unfriendly world, they had Sarek come on for a Very Special Episode about dementia and you loved that too. You complained nothing was happening, but do you realize you loved an episode of DS9 where an alien comes on and OBrien says "he's hiding something but I like him" and then absolutely nothing happens for 30 minutes and then OBrien says "he's hiding something but I like him"?

Ugh. I'm surprised, I woulda thought our crew dismantling a bureaucracy would have appealed to you guys. 🤪 But once again, Alex has people defending a mid-tier episode. A frusterating thing is that, just because someone gets a credit on a Hollywood production does not mean they instantly become a millionaire, nor ever dealt with living in harsh conditions. Way too many stories of writers and even actors in wildly popular things ending up poverty striken because they couldn't get work after that. Because guess what, most of Hollywood runs off of temporary contractual jobs. Yeah, a few Hollywood elite in the TV realm make it big, but they'd have been showrunners/executive producers for multiple productions, not the fuckin staff writers working 9-5 glad to have a job so they can pay off their mortgage on their overpriced LA homes. Where do you think "starving artist" comes from? Plus, the message isn't even about poverty. That's just the flavor their message about the way bureaucratic systems foster societial apathy and widen class divides, took and they just want society, enmass, to be careful about that. And of course, the 90s was actually a period of relative peace, bliss and calm. Like yeah, a proposal like this showed up in an LA city council and caused a stir, but as written this was NOT a commentary necessarily on issues of the day, but an extrapolation of what COULD happen. You know, Speculative Fiction. And obviously the 3rd World War in Trek's past didn't spring from NOTHING. So this tells a bit of how the world crumbled. Furthermore PLENTY of works set themselves "20 years in the future." Do people get mad at Blade Runner for telling a story 30 years later in 2019 about corporate greed and identity politics and the right of beings to live? No, because that's a ridiculous complaint. If this episode followed the same basic plot, but took place in the past, in WWII Warsaw, or in Medieval Europe with the black plague, or in Ancient Egypt or when the Persian empire was conquring the known world, or during the French Revolution or the American Civil War or any number of historical periods where an atrocity occured, I 100% garuntee that Bashir and Sisko would have had the same damn type of conversation about things getting so bad - and you'd have been FINE with it. It would've been more divorced from your lived experience, which, again at the time of airing, the events of this episode and the extremes felt were not as prominant as they became. So don't be mad the episode now sounds preachy because it got things right, get mad at the way the world worked out to the point it robbed you of being able to enjoy that part of the episode and filling in backstory about how the Star Trek world came to be. That's what I always found interesting about the episode - taking the common trope of having modern humans end up in the past and being bewildered at the state of things and how much they took for granted their modern life, only, it's people from the future, travelling to our future and feeling the same. Alex hates when Star Trek looks back and bitches about current life, and obviously when the callouts get specific it's like "Really?" But I also totally believe that is something that would happen. We do it today. Why wouldn't they, with as much progress as they've made, not do it to us too. I'm sorry the world sucks so much this episode is too close to home and triggering for you to enjoy the stuff that would make it a Mid-ass episode with some fun lore. But such is life I guess... But you'd still hate the technobabble and smog flattening out the picture and the pacing issues and B.C.'s character - but there'd probably be less pouting. And FWIW, I found Captain Sam America's speech the most Star Trek thing to air in the last decade. Take that for what it's worth, lol.

I like the two-part episode. The time travel alone is enough for me to enjoy it. The setting and the backstory make it exciting for me. I never found it boring.I don't understand why Alex takes it so personally when social injustices are addressed. It certainly makes a big difference that I watched the episodes back then as a teenager. I like to claim that my moral compass was defined by series like Star Trek TOS, TNG and DS9.

It’s one thing to hate on an episode I get that but it’s yalls job to still make it enjoyable to watch the reaction…. Skipped the discussion on this one bc what’s the point of watching it

Never been a fan of this episode, I usually skip it on rewatches. E is an appropriate rating in my opinion. The world sucks. I watch Trek to escape the world sucking.

Ok rewriter's room - here's how I'd make the episode better: 1. Cut all or most of the speeches and repetitiveness with Sisko and Bashir and possibly Dax to give us tons more time for other things. 2. Add way more scenes to the Defiant but scrap everything that already was going on there. First, as soon as the transport happens, they see history change. Romulans or the Borg or someone is now in control of Earth, and they have to cloak and escape before they can figure out what was going on. 3. Show Sisko/Bashir/Dax royally screw things up, thus causing the timeline changes. Show the riots happen and the hostages get killed because they *fail* to preserve the timeline. 4. Back on the Defiant, they figure out the date Sisko/Bashir/Dax were sent back to and O'Brien and Kira go back to fix things. But they have to fly back to Earth and decloak to do it, making getting the exact time difficult. They end up there a couple days after Sisko arrived. 5. Now, with the addition of O'Brien and Kira, things go differently and the timeline is restored. They return to their future.

Alex, please remember to have fun even during the dogshit episodes. You legit got mad here, and it wasn't a good look. I can't imagine how you're going to handle anything after Enterprise.

Whew, I didn’t see that coming. While I didn’t necessarily think this would be a favorite of yours, I also didn’t expect you to despise it as much as you did. One pattern I’ve noticed with you guys is when you decide you don’t like an episode there is almost no redeeming it for you. Was it a little heavy with the social commentary? Yes. But I think it delivered in more ways than you give it credit for here. It never ceases to amaze me how you seem to be able to find redeeming qualities in episodes that I find to be absolutely horrible, while at other times you can watch an episode that is generally highly regarded and just rip it to shreds. It's a bit perplexing and definitely keeps us fans on our toes! And for the record, I don’t particularly love this pair of episodes. I don’t hate it as much as you do, but I find it a little over the top, slow paced, frequently in your face with explaining the obvious, and overall disappointing for what was otherwise an interesting premise. I appreciate it for what it is and the message it is trying to convey, but other episodes have shared that same message in a much more effective way. It is far from top level Trek... but it’s not THAT bad.

I think you need to go back to watching in the evening, because you're not up to this whole morning thing. Want to know what's more boring than Sisko and Bashir walking down the street talking about how bad poverty is? Watching two grown men on the internet complain about it. So, skipping the second episode and final thoughts on this one. Onward to Voyager.

I thought the episode was a C. If it wasnt a 2 parter and had faster pacing it would've been better.

*As Sam Wilson* 'You gotta do better, Target Audience!'

"How did they let it get so bad??" - Alex, about the writers of this episode

I watched part 1 with the guys, then watched part 2 without so I could form my own opinion. I give it a C. It deserves a B, but BC's performance and O'Brien and Kira's stop in the 60s knocks it down a grade.

Josh remembered the Alamo as the Poker guy in Time's Arrow Part 1 !! Always remember the Marc Alamo

I skip theses 2 episodes, it drags on, it has some fun things , but the story is boring , I do like the guy that was in gremlins

This is probably the first reaction of yours I've watched and didn't enjoy. Alex invented a guy who didn't exist and then got mad at him. If Conan O'Brien was bumping around in a Ford Taurus as an associate producer in his Simpsons days I doubt the DS9 guys were riding to work in limos. I get you got caught off guard with an episode you found to be boring and preachy. But c'mon. attack the episode on it's own merits.

Good concept, mixed execution. Episode is dragged down by a few of the guest actors, stretched out plot and pretty abrupt ending. They could have cut a lot of the chaff out and added a few scenes on Earth with Sisko's family and it would have done wonders. Still, I think its a C tier overall. Which for this season is pretty bad - the rest of it is just so good.

1st, when Alex and Josh both loose their minds during an episode, it's over, lol. 2nd, for me this story has always been and still is a C- purely on poor execution. It's a bit boring/stretched out and Tasmania/Bittle guy, although realistic is just too annoying. But the msg is really good. For me it doesn't come off preachy or too on the nose probably because I'm seeing this through the lens of what the 70s were like being highly influenced by the 60s, through the lens of the 80s and then the 90s when this came out. And saying these things in a straightforward way, was a choice (that can be debated if it was the right choice for the time). The guys writing this were older than me and I completely see that 60s/70s experience coming through. Hey, I love ya Josh and Alex but you should be called out a little bit here. Having big feelings/opposite opinions is legit. That's cool, I'm here for it. But you don't know the hearts of these writers, their personal struggles, what they fought for in their lives and for in the lives of others. Several times you gave them shit for grandstanding and guilt-tripping as they lived their best lives, walking past those in need. We don't know that. I find that an unjustified and cynical.

It’s at least interesting to see how differently we can experience the same piece of media. I find this two parter depressing and difficult to watch right now and wasn’t a fan even when the country was doing better. That’s mostly because I get overwhelmed with scenarios like this where everything is just horrible and a misery.

I never really cared for this two-parter, but the fallout's reminded me that I'm still mad about The Jem'Dahar.

I don’t get why it upsets people this much that the guys hated this episode (and I say this as someone who likes the episide a lot). It’s not like the Jem’Hadar which sets up the future and it’s not the Original crews last ever movie but even those I think the fact Josh and Alex give their genuine opinion is what makes their channel great. To me, it’s the inverse of Meridian to each their own. Btw Josh great job with the trailer as it’s fair to say all of us were worked.

Part 1 is truly a bore. 15 minutes of story stretched over 45. Part 2 is a little better, but it's all just overly preachy. The comic relief of the searching in different times is silly fun that clashes with the sanctimonious aspect of the rest of the episodes. In other words, I pretty much agree with your reactions on this one.

I thought the best scenes in part 1 were when Jadzia was found and taken in by the media mogul. It showed her shrewdness and Terri was so charming. Some of the guest stars, were the best part of part 2: Lee the social worker and Webb the father. When I watched this episode 30 years ago when I was still in college, I remember not being wowed by the episode. First time re-watching and I have to agree how bad the first part was for all the reasons you said. Looking at Memory Alpha, some of the cast and crew were quoted at the time as feeling this story was good for tackling the subject of unhoused people.

How did such a stupid random 2-part episode surpass the drama of Star Trek 6?

So glad I didn’t waste money paying for early access to these episodes which I have always rated highly. I am afraid I found your mockery and inability to see beyond the superficial very offputting. Your disrespectful reaction to all elements ( writing, acting and directing) of this well executed and thoughtful thirty year old story was so disproportionate. Yes , there was a social message but it did hit home at the time it was aired. You may see it as “woke” and preachy , but Star Trek has never been afraid to tackle serious societal issues. This is a similar message to that given in “The City on the edge of Forever “ yet you were happy to listen to Edith Keeler lecturing the homeless about being a bum and the evils of booze and not wanting to work. What is the difference? A strong B+ for me.

I think yal are a little sensitive to being preached to. "i get that the world sucks, what are you going to do about it?!" Nothing. That's the point. It's City on the Edge of Forever. We have to let something bad happen for the good of history. It's guilty of bad pacing but I don't think it's preachy. B for me. (for the record, i thought Melora was preachy)

As much of an "after school special" as it can admittedly be at times, this episode did resonate with people, both when it first came out and since. It's helped keep the subjects it addresses alive within the Star Trek community for over 30 years, even if the lived reality has trended more downward than not since 1995. And, on the weekend of Aug. 30 - Sept. 1, 2024, local fan groups in SF did organize to fundraise and make donations to food banks, community health organizations, and other groups that address the needs of the homeless and disadvantaged in honor of Gabriel Bell. So, in that regard, I think the writers succeeded in what they were trying to do. A B in my book. If you want episode-centric reasons: I actually like the premise, the temporal Prime Directive's usually an interesting twist on the standard; I appreciate most of the interactions between Sisko and/or Bashier and Lee and/or Webb; I like the Easter eggs that the two time periods O'Brian and Kira go to are 1932 (CotEoF) and 1966 (premire of ST); I appreciate that they leave it open-ended rather than pretending our guys could solve the over-arching problem (they just need to patch the blip they caused, and avoid accelerating the grip of cynicism and apathy). I still feel it's a good effort.

There was a debate in the writer's room about mentioning WW3. There was a discrepancy that had crept in, between Khan/the Eugenics Wars in the 1990s, and Farpoint talking about WW3 in the mid-21st century. The writers got caught up with the idea that they were in the 1990s in real life, and clearly society/tech hadn't progressed to the point where we had sleeper ships (to banish Khan with)...and then started wondering if the Eugenics Wars should be later, and if that was the same as WW3...frankly, they over-thought it. I say stick to the canon you have and make it work. YES, Khan existed. YES we had advanced spacecraft in 1990. YES WW3 happened when Picard said it did. Just go with it. They dropped that ball.

While I've never been a huge fan of this two-parter, I have to say that I think you guys have convinced me it's bad. I remembered it being slow. I remembered it being 'a bit preachy', but watching it with you guys today, it was a lot more of both than I remembered. And when you look past the message it wants to deliver, the remaining plot is... pretty dull, actually. Definitely could have been one episode. So.... .... Thanks? Lol

Based on the comments, I'm just not going to watch this one. It isn't that I love this episode. I think it is around B-/C+. Ironically, when I first saw it back in the 90s I thought it was preachy and muddled, and just bad. Like, the problem is obviously not that people stopped caring. Anyone who does advocacy for homeless services and mental health knows that apathy is not the root cause. And the writers deciding the solution is Employment legislation guaranteeing jobs is just ridiculous! And was ridiculous back then! (Too bad they didn't think of Universal Basic Income, as this could have been a strong allegory for job displacement by AI!) My opinion now has improved because I think they were a bit more thoughtful about the government criminalizing poverty and homelessness, which isn't really something that was a mainstream idea back in the 90s when they wrote it But this is a strong trend in current city government. So this is kinda why it is now a C+. Because I feel like they partially understood the problem, but then couldn't really grasp what would *really* be needed to stop it. Or maybe they didn't really try, since it is so complex, and thought they could shorthand it with "people forgot to care!" but they really can't, since that is obviously not the base problem.

I'll always remember how one of the earliest 'Watch ALL Star Trek' podcasts - Post Atomic Horror - took some serious flak for disliking this two-parter, for most of the usual reasons (too technobabbly a set-up, too preachy, too padded, 'Hat Guy' really annoying). So, y'know, not an uncommon reaction.

They kind of missed the point that this wasn’t saying how bad the world is because the world *wasn’t* like that then. It was warning how bad the world could be if we lose all empathy. The fact the guys dislike it because it seems like the news and very normal and they don’t want to have to think about the real world and poor people when watching TV (just like the people outside the sanctuary in the episode) tells you everything about how right DS9 was in its prediction of what the people and society of 2024 would be like.

Regarding your discussion after Part 1 about how you would rather relax than be lectured to about issues when watching TV, I get what you're saying, but the world back then wasn't like now where you are bombarded with news and information wherever you go. Basically, if you were not watching your TV, listening to your radio or reading your newspaper, you were disconnected from the issues of the world, and it was a completely different mindset. So when seeing this on TV, it wouldn't seem like a lecture, but more like a 'Very Special Episode'.

I swear I tried to watch to the end, but I couldn't do it.

They tuned out pretty early on this one

I agree that this should have been one episode but this was the 90’s and trek does hold a scope on current situations, and dammed did they predict our current situation

I think them laughing over the subjuect matter is kinda the reason we have the Trek we have now.

I love all the predictions they got right in those episodes. People using "the net" to get all their information, touchscreen computers, police arresting you for not having an ID... I love how this episode makes Bashir look so much more competent, he actually gets to use his skills as a doctor without having to rely on technology. Apparently, and for good reasons, those episodes are favorites of many cast members, Colm Meaney being one of them. Personally, I've never seen this episode as preachy, probably because homelessness isn't a problem where I live (it's too cold). I love these episodes for the time travel aspect, the predictions that turned right and the social commentary on the rich and powerful being totally disconnected from the real world. Those episodes were prescient in the 90s (not that much since sanctuaries were actually being discussed in L.A. while they were filming this) and are still relevant today. It was supposed to be a cautionary tale, not a critic of the modern world, and it's not the writers' fault that it became one.

This 2 parter is just boring as fuck

The luxwana "fan-fic" episode where nothing relevant happened was great but this was an absolute E 😂😂😂 Still love ya boys!

Josh and Alex, I have strongly disagreed with you two before but I just do not understand the passionate reaction from people to this one. In my book, this is an E also. I think this is one of the most boring, low quality episodes in the franchise, and it really stands out being surrounded by so many better episodes in season 3. You have this run of great to pretty good episodes in S3 and then you get this one which feels like they had a rejected script from the same period as Move Along Home and had to film it during a writer's strike or something. Can I see people disagreeing with you guys and liking this one better than an E? Sure, but I do not understand how anyone could possibly feel as strongly about this one as so many seem to and be reacting to it as emotionally and passionately as so many are. I don't get it.

I didn't get around to doing a Patron Take on this one, but I'm not sure I could offer much. I certainly don't hate the episodes, and actually they are quite memorable for me since they are quite different to your standard episode. Past Tense actually reminds me a bit of what would happen if you merged City on the Edge of Forever with Robocop. But there's definitely a bunch of problems. Some dodgy guest actors. The dull as ditchwater Jadzia and the Rich Guys sections. It being so much longer than it needed to be. As I say, I don't hate it but it's a B max, maybe a C.

Clint Howard plays the character that takes Dax’s combadge and she convinces him to give it back. He was Balok in TOS’ “The Corbomite Maneuver”.

What's with the digs at Europe? Noticed this a few times now

They had good ideas for this two-parter, but failed to execute them well. This is my least favorite two-parter of the series and both are near the bottom of my list for DS9 episodes.

Okay, I want to leave a comment before watching and then I'll comment again. I've been wondering for awhile what they are going to think of this episode and I have no clue. They've talked about when watching episodes they want to view it from a current perspective and what it means in the now. That's fair, absolutely. Yet, at the same time I've been thinking since Star Trek's inception it has always been forward thinking (the first interracial kiss for example). That Star Trek was so innovative, made Star Trek, well.... Star Trek. So when this episode came out homelessness was a social issue, but not the explosive one it is today. This episode was an attempt to motivate a discussion/awareness to what's on the horizon. Watching this now one could say, well... yeah.. duh?!? Kind of like never seeing Network when it was originally released and seeing it today. Will they see this ep as woke and preachy? I'm really not sure. It could give off that vibe in current viewing. But when Past Tense came out, few wanted to talk about looming, future issues like this. From TOS, Star Trek never shied away from relevant social commentary that desperately needed to be addressed and most wanted to sweep under the rug. Either way, however this hits Josh and Alex, I'm looking forward to hearing their thoughts. See you on the other side :)

I think the Episode is alright, maybe a C, but I love Alex' rants here, spot on. If Star Trek did social commentary like this all the time there'd be no reason to make it sci-fi.

OMG !!!! ALEX !! .can't stop laughing . human muppet !!! now I can't get that out my head !!! so funny

I was never a fan of this episode. Not because of the message but because it is just not well executed. I kind of hoped that you two would like it. That makes watching your reactions really fun. When I see your point and like an episode that i did not like before. Well this reaction was no fun : D

So you liked it?

Part 1 is exceptionally preachy, but I actually kind of enjoy Part 2 a bit. Guess I'm just a bit of a sucker for time travel stories where the characters have to interact with different time periods of Earth's past (as filtered through Trek's adjacent-to-real history). I always find it amusing when activists try to compare the sanctuary districts in this episode to modern day sanctuary cities. Completely different concepts: a last stop for the homeless vs a place where non-citizens and criminals are protected. The only similarity is the word "sanctuary."

The most unrealistic thing about this episode's depiction of 2024 is that a US government clock shows the current temperature in Celsius.

It was obvious you two weren't vibing pretty early on. Around the time you were making quips like, "NEXT TIME ON DS9, Sisko and Bashir visit the DMV!" right after the opening credits.

At the time I didn't take this is a "look how bad the world is", because the world certainly wasn't that bad. It was a cautionary tale of "be vigilant, don't let the world get like this". And it hits the same today, because still the world isn't anywhere near this bad.

One of the most Star Trek episodes ever, which means I knew you guys would hate it. Sorry it wasn't 2 hours of Obrien talking about transporter schematics and his crappy marriage.

I knew that streak of loving every s3 episode wouldn't last forever and I suspected it would be a fan fave you didn't like. That's kind of why I like this channel tbh, it's nice to hear views outside the usual. Anyway it's not my favorite either. I don't mind episodes about social issues but it's done in a really clunky soapbox way and I don't think the writers even know what point they're making beyond "poverty is bad actually."

I like these episodes, although they aren't as good as most of the earlier ones in the season. They are generic 'C' episodes to me. I figured the TA guys would hate them, as they are the sort of episodes they hate the most. Well, outside of Melora, which they love despite it being the 100% worst example of the theme. :P But hey, we all have our own life experiences and personal likes and dislikes. So, whatever. I mean, I like Wesley Crusher, Wrath of Khan is probably my 4th favorite Trek movie, I like Enterprise, and TOS is my least favorite of the classic Trek shows. So just admitting those things have me in the tiny minority here, I am sure. Oh, and Taker was entirely overrated as a wrestler. Bret Hart was way better. :D I just think these episodes are fun what ifs. Dystopian societies and preachy stories are some of the most common themes of sci-fi shows and movies, and time travel certainly is another. These episodes aren't the best of what is out there, but they are fine as throwaway entertainment. Which is what probably a third of all Trek shows are imo. These episodes ARE _very_ 1990s, though. And it detracts from them now when back then it probably was less of a thing. It's probably why I can't ever really take TOS as seriously as I should. Even when I was a kid watching them, their obvious age reduces my interest in them, rightfully or not.

It's entertaining when you guys get really pissed off at an episode. I was never a big fan of this 2 parter either.

I’ll have to watch this later. Judging by the comments looks like you don’t like one of my favorites. lol. Ah well, thanks for giving it a shot! Looking forward to your thoughts!

"Star Trek was always woke, just look at (episode) as an example!" (points to one of the worst episodes in the franchise) Every time.

Oh, and ya'll should definitely NOT be doing these reactions in the morning. Ya'll a bunch of Grumpy Mf'rs in the morning. Hahaha... ;-p

I did leave a negative Patreon take, but the episodes were even worse than I remember. Could be the fact that on a rewatch, I knew nothing riveting was ever going to happen. The message unfortunately is still as relevant as it was back then, but that doesn't make this a good episode. Overall A for the intent, but E for the execution.

I wonder whether recording reactions in the morning is such a good idea. I kept moving the timecode forward in 30 second increments, until I started to suspect the wrestling comparsion in itself was going to be a rare TA mid-season two-parter.

- I don't think the "Wrath of Khan" is the best thing since sliced bread. - I've always thought "The Jem'Hadar" was kind of weak and uneven. - I never knew people hated Meridian until a couple weeks ago and always thought it was pretty decent. - I've always loved "Past Tense". All of this to say, I'm usually on the same page as you guys, or at least can see your POV. That said, I have to admit, this one is rough. I get that you guys weren't alive when this aired, so I'm trying my best to see this objectively from your perspective. To do that, I asked myself "How would I feel if Starfleet Academy dropped an episode this week where they time travelled to San Francisco 2056, the city is consumed by an opioid epidemic, everyone is strung out, and the characters were talking about how treating addiction improperly lead to society collapsing"?. Would I feel that was preachy and heavy handed? Honestly, the answer is probably "yes". I would roll my eyes, say some shit about Academy's bad writing, and tear them up on Reddit with the other nerds. Where I hope you guys can entertain the other POV though, is in considering how it's *not* exactly the same as that analogy I just threw out. The difference is in the visibility: most of us see the opioid problem today walking to work, and even if they don't, it's at least plastered in every headline of our 24 hour online news cycle. If you already know something is a problem, having someone spell it out for you in no uncertain terms, is going to feel like they are talking down to you and treating you like an idiot. However, as many people have already mentioned in the comments here, that wasn't the same with homelessness in the 90's. The 90's in America were peak prosperity (see: Pizza Hut pan pizza comment). Many people literally didn't see homelessness, especially if they owned a tv set in the suburbs. Homelessness was a thing of the "past" or relegated to movies and fiction, where "crazy hobos" would be villains or comic relief. It wasn't the stuff of "real life". Every day our media sold us the idea that Things Were Getting Better™. The portrayal of large-scale Sanctuary District at that scale was straight-up dystopian Fiction, and for some, completely laughable. In contrast, now I basically have one down the street from me. That's the irony here: some would have mocked this episode at the time for portraying homelessness at this "silly" scale, while viewers today seeing it for the first time might mock it because "No shit, it's so obvious. Why you preaching to me about this, Boomer?". "Past Tense" not only warned us that its real, but humanizes the "crazy hobos", by trying to hammer home that you're only one layoff from it happening to You - prosperous, pan-pizza-eating You. The episodes aren't trying to "talk down" to you as much as they are trying to "wake you up" and make you realize that we haven't fixed everything yet. In the 90's this was against the grain. Are they perfect episodes? No, but an "E" feels harsh. I also agree that Trek is often at its best when using fictional allegory instead of direct comparison. I think the disconnect here is in understanding that for many viewers in '95, this was so far from their reality that it did feel like fictional allegory. Regardless, I can never say you guys don't give us your honest thoughts, which I appreciate.

Very easy to guess TA would really hate this and I give it a D-. Lot better episodes to come though!

Boring episodes, bad writing. Wtf was that weird bit with the guy who took Dax's combadge about? Really odd. D

I realize I was only a year or two older than Josh and Alex are now when I first saw this about 12 yers ago, this is the benefit of ALWAYS rewatching all episodes, when I first saw it I was annoyed feeling it was interrupting the story, but today with you all I can see some value in it, as I get older with my disabilities I can appreciate what the writers wanted to do a little more. It is a funny thing, you don’t even realize your opinion is changing. That is one of the things I like about watching with multiple reactors. Even when I disagree you bring out something I had not thought of and make me watch episodes I often skip. See you Sunday, Friday and Sunday for Voyager than the Wednesday after that for more DS9 (fpr some fellow patrons thats Monday, Saturday, next Monday and the next Thursday)

My heart. 💔

Based on TA's feelings on this episode, Star Trek VI and the 9/11 allegories in New BSG, I think their overall stance is always going to be that just because something is based on truth or real history doesn't mean it's a good episode or movie to them. It's a complete non-factor in their appraisal.

I like this episode for many reasons, but I do agree that framing it as "people just forgot how to care" doesn't address the real complexities of the issue at all. I also don't feel that this episode is prophetic in the same sense that a lot of people do. I do feel that it is prophetic in the sense that I believe that eventually, even if it takes us 1000 years, we will get to a Star Trek like Type 1 civilization future. But we're going to have a lot of bad stuff along the way in order to get there. Basically, we won't get there until we're forced to. I see this episode as showing what will eventually happen once AI exposes the problem that we already have; that we have WAY more people than jobs that are actually needed. As automation increases, eventually we're going to get to the point where unemployment is the norm, and we may have a ton of sanctuary districts just like this where the majority of people live. Eventually, society will have to figure out a completely different economic model that doesn't rely on jobs, and is more like the Federation where everything is resource based, and technology allows us to eliminate resource scarcity. But until we get there, we're going to have a lot of problems we can no longer ignore, a lot of death, and a lot of civil unrest as the old systems no longer work, but we also have no replacement.

I hated this one too. I'm not allowed to talk about why I don't like it yet, maybe one of these years.

Look, this is clearly the price the universe demanded for the praise of Meridian and Fascination. Past Tense had to be sacrificed. Equilibrium had to be maintained. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

Okay... I am SO GLAD you disliked this 2-parter because I thought I was alone in hating it! From the absolutely STUPID "slang" to the sanctimonious "preaching to the choir" storyline and lazy dialogue... and so many people seem to like this one. I never understood why. But, hey, I liked Captain's Holiday and Invisible Friend, so what do I know?

I would have had more fun watching wrestling than the guys had watching this episode. So, I get it, it would also ruin my day if I was forced to watch wrestling.

Well, that sucks, I've been looking forward to these episodes since we started season 3

Worst two part episode? I think I have to go with the Worf's father two parter.

I knew you'd either love or hate this one, i wasn't sure which. I think i got my answer😂. This one has grown on me more over time, it's certainly not a Season favourite, but i like it a lot, mid B, which for Season 3 is relatively low ranking.

Biddle Coleridge was indeed absolutely the worst guest character in all of Trek, I 100% agree with this. He always came off as so cringe to me.

I had a feeling they wouldn't like it. They had mentioned in the past that they didn't like "heavy handed" messages that basically told the viewer what to think. I think I'll skip this reaction. Better episodes ahead. It's just too bad it'll take longer to get to them now that we'll have to juggle with Voyager.

A lot of people have said what I would say in defense of this episode. I will say its probably not in my top 10 like I thought before but I still believe its a great part 2. One is indeed slow. I think so much hate from a first time view now is that so much of Hollywood is preachy activism now that does nothing that people are tired of it. I do feel that takes away now from an episode that's message and story to me showed more the human condition in situations like this riot and and the change it can bring. You can change the poverty stuff and apply this exact same scenario to something else. I do whole heartly agree though with setting stories like this in a fictional universe and not "modern times". I don't hate it here like I do in other works but because I hate it elsewhere I completely see why people hate the setting of this ep.

Its not my favorite 2 parter as I think it boring but its no where near an E. I like part 2 better than part 1. Theres no way this is as bad as move along home. Its probably a C- for me

“You just don’t understand, do you?” - Errol Flynn’s Robin Hood (appropriate for this episode)

Doing morality plays is tough, especially when you want something akin to real world, I understand the complaints about direction and some of the story, but in its purest form this is Trek, this isn’t my favorites episode of even this week, and never tempt me to rewrite, but for the episode we had it had a Trek message, maybe its hard to see but since we know what it is that can become our focus. The point is if we treat each other horribly, even between those in the sanctuary, it will end poorly for everyone no matter the economics. Lets all be aware there will be episodes of DS9 like this that likely Josh and Alex will not care for, that is ok, as long as we all discuss things with respect

You see, I saw this episode for the first time in 2023 hence why I gave it an S as it was an exciting glimpse into the distant future.

It's funny how much everyone in the comments is talking about how unsubtle the episode's social commentary is. And yet most still think the point of the episode is "poverty bad"

Strange comments about limousines and resenting people for imaginary reasons.

Oh wow, I am so disappointed by how much TA hated this 2-parter. It's not A-tier for me but a solid B-tier. Wish I had put in a patron takes on this just to argue why it's actually good. Especially right now, as under our current administration, there is so much injustice and as a resident of the Minnesota Twin Cities, it is so frustrating when people who are further from the front lines just ignore what is happening. 'It doesn't affect me so who cares, lalala'. I want these kinds of stories from Star Trek, of showing how humanity can become better, can move beyond inequality and inhumanity. It's something that hadn't yet been explored, how did humanity get from the present day (from the show's creation) to this blissful utopia. This is a huge historical event in-universe, and I love that the show wanted to tell this story. Could it have been more tightly written? Maybe, but it's not E tier at all.

Probably the worst take Josh and Alex have had in my opinion. Star Trek does social commentary all the time, and plenty of it is as heavy handed as this. You guys always poke fun at the sci-fi and technobabble but then you also say you want your social commentary within a more "star-trek" setting. You complain that the first episode is pure setup, but it's there to inform the viewer about how things really were in a time where the world wasn't as interconnected as it is now, and many atrocities went unnoticed or unreported. The point of this episode is obvious looking 30 years back. Living through this time was much different than reading about it in a book years after the fact. Star Trek has always been preachy (with varying degrees of success) but I feel like you missed the mark on this one. IN FACT the crux of the story is apathy -- yes atrocities happen, but they often only happen when good men, and good women do nothing -- which is why the coda is so powerful "how did we let this happen...." When enough people go along with something -- stop caring and just put their heads down bad things follow...the amount of historical parallels of that happening are immeasurable Your somewhat apathetic response to varying points of this episode is the exact thing this episode tried to show and warn against. Star Trek is more than just a TV show. To so many it was a hope of better things to come. There are countless stories of people who were inspired because of TOS to join the hard sciences -- people who ended up making significant contributions and improvements to this world. This episode is really just Star Trek being Star Trek -- not for it's sci-fi or futuristic setting, but for it's ethos, it's ability to inspire and change, and move towards a more utopian society that Star Trek usually shows. Here's hoping that future episodes are more to your liking.

These sorts of episodes make me think of Anakin in AotC: "We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problem, agree what's in the best interests of all the people, and then do it." The problem isn't that people don't care and aren't trying to fix it; the problem is that they are complex problems and no one agrees on how to fix it. (And, yes, there absolutely are real people who work against progress).

This is on my “Never bother to re-watch.” list. I don’t hate it, but I don’t give a shit about it either. I look forward to some healthy trash talking an episode after such a good streak this season. I missed the sass.

I love these episodes, so I knew you would hate them. I just didn't know you would hate them THAT much. You were so stuck looking down at the message that the plot went above your heads, again.

Well, I completely disagree. This one's an S for me. But then you guys and I watch the show for completely different reasons. To each their own.

Im glad I didn't pay 4.50 to see reaction early.😂 I was tempted tho. Was disappointed that you didn't dig it. I saw it on broadcast release and I guess it hit different back then....

I should have realized that J&A would parse this episode as "Time's Arrow + Force of Nature": padded out two-parter, "historic" Earth setting, time travel technobabble, and transparent allegory to a modern-day issue. Add in the "Jem'Hadar" bait-and-switch of visiting Sisko's sister in DS9-era Seattle getting overridden by the transporter plot in the initial moments of the show for the cherry on top. Just finishing the first part of the reaction now, so I am curious how bad the fallout will be by the time we hit the end of the episode.

While I also believe that this set has issues, particularly watching it now as opposed to even three years ago, I really do think the extent of your negative reaction was unwarranted, and pretty disappointing. This is the first time in my year and a half of watching your reaction videos that I actually stopped watching halfway through, just because there really was no point in continuing when it became apparent how much you hated the episodes. And hey, that's totally your right, I'm not saying any of this to blast you guys... I'm just rather shocked is all. I do agree that it's generally preferable to dress human issues in the plot of this future setting. That said, I think it's important, now and then, to strip that mask away and really slap the full discomfort and horrors of the world right down on the table, in full and plain view, and then say hey, this is real, this is happening, we need to do something about it. Did these episodes do this especially well? No. Was the story stretched longer than it should have been? Probably. Are there many other flaws with it that would take far too long to discuss on here? absolutely! But I respect the show for telling the story regardless.

For next Halloween you should dress up as Pennywise and Coco as you are a pair of clowns for scoring this lower than Meridian.

Hmm,... i actually like these episodes. Not the best, but these 2 episodes are a C to me. Also, i absolutely LOVE how much it pissed you off. Hahaha... Thought your head was going to explode.

Me after watching this reaction: "Oh, perfect. Just what we need. Two more dims."

The show also doesn't get to Legend Status until season 4. Trust me.

Based on the comments, I’m not even sure I want to watch the reaction now 🙁. This is a very good two-parter. I am usually the FIRST person to call out any woke or preachy bullshit. (Just ask all of the leftist patrons that I offend) I’ve never found this episode to be that at all.

Oh boy, this ought to be fun... LOL

Yeah i also don't like this Episode. But i can't stand your mockery about every thing that happens the whole Episode. Watched with you until the first Part ended, and will not watch the second Part. I have the same feelings about: the over the top "Oh look this is bad, let us Show you this the whole Time to make sure you get it!" And the urge for the Crew to do something. But you Guys have a tendency to hyperfocus on one Part and ride the Horse until it's dead. So it effects your comments on other Scenes that are okay, but you are in your Zone and will have off coure another mockery present. Not worth my Time. -.-

I think you actually can make a legitimate argument that Past Tense is the worst two-parter DS9 ever did. But that’s because all of DS9’s two-parters are fucking awesome!

When I saw the angle of the one guy's eyebrows in the thumbnail it made me laugh. I laughed and laughed so hard. But it's still early; I haven't even started drinking yet.

remember what u think is boring other see as intresting backstory i liked the szenerie of episode 1 this has 7.9 for a reason :) but then u like the two most disliked star trek movies 1 and 3 the most i give it an A i love this

When I show this episode for students in a geopolitics class, I edited it down to about 45 minutes... so I guess I never have to sit through the whole thing anymore. Surely it gets a better grade in an edit lol

„Do better!“ ahh episode

I'm sad to see the chain of "good" episodes broken... but the chain was broken for me back with Meridian and then in Fascination. So we should all be happy the guys got this far in liking all the episodes to now.

No comment on your reaction and that in Itself is a reaction

The weakest part of Back to the Future 2 was the stuff in the "future" - but watching that part of the movie is fun if you're looking to see what they got right and what they got wrong. There's a bit of that, too, in Past Tense. I'm always surprised to see how Past Tense is so highly regarded today. At the time I watched it, I gave it a B-/C+ rating. It's mid. But not nearly as bad as the guys think IMO.

On a positive note, at least this isn't the end of Season 3 / beginning of Season 4. Also, most would probably say episodes 3x1-3x10 are not peak DS9, so there's that.

Wait DS9 is 'clearly the Middle East'? Umm... maybe, to a point. Usually people see parallels to 1940s Germany for the Bajoran/Cardassian back story.

An E rating!!!!! I give your reactions a G rating, with a minus 1 bonus for departing so much from the widely held respect for this 2 parter. So that's a H rating....with a further minus 1 for every hour that passes without a grovelling apology. And don't tempt me to trawl through the TA archives for ST episodes you both liked that were dubious....that would be another minus 1 per episode. We are going to need to expand the alphabet by the time I get through with you both.

Did they seriously give this an E?!? I’ll be giving this reaction a miss then.

Every time I rewatch this, I'm more and more bored. Posting this between part 1 and part 2, but I doubt it's going to feel much different after 2. Guess I'll see!

Wow! Was looking forward to this one, didn't expect the strong reaction. I liked these way back when, surprised you we so down on it lol. Slow pace, maybe the slower wait aspect to get to part 2. It seems especially relevant now....20 years after the episode at what's going on.

I think part of why this hasn’t aged very well for me is that I don’t understand everyone thinking it was so prophetic - to me it is extremely simplistic and naive, which compounds the preachiness. Maybe it was the hopefulness of the time, but the solution of “hey we just need to REMIND people that homeless people are people too” is at once overly simple and condescending, and exposes the privilege of the writers - “if you all just CARED as much as us!” It’s a reflection of current online folks’ inability to see how complex issues actually are - things aren’t just bad because everyone is too mean. It’s the sci-fi equivalent of. Miss America contestant being asked what her solution to poverty is. Which is also such an anomaly for DS9 as even at this point it’s shades of gray and ability to see issues as complex is a huge asset.

Yeah it’s just boring. Probably would have helped if it was cut down to one episode and did less telling and more showing.

Man, y'all were tripping with this one

This episode holds a special place in my heart due to my own personal history, when I was 19 for a myriad of reasons, I found myself homeless down in Florida, for several months during the peak summer season. To say it was brutal would be an understatement, I remember one morning, I had been sleeping on the beach and for whatever reason didn't wake up until the sun was already high up in its arc, baking me alive. Over the next few days, I was so sunburnt that my skin started to peel off like I was a snake shedding its outer layer. Wild days. However, it wasn't all bad. I saw the good that humanity can have, a lot of people helped me, gave me money for food, even had a hotel manager put me up in a room for a few days (I was hiding from the sun in an above-ground multistory parking lot when he saw me), no questions asked. You learn to treasure a soft bed and a warm shower, let me tell you. I never got the impression that this episode was talking down to me or calling me "bad" for not being extremely active in fixing homelessness. Merely reinforcing how it's important to keep empathy alive and thriving within your soul. It can be easy for certain events or triggers to damage that connection to others. It's effectively a universal truism; we should want to help the homeless. I like messaging that reinforces that, and I barely even saw it as a political message. It was a very... human message? I do agree this two-parter is on the nose and some scenes are a bit stilted and lifeless, but eh, the "issue" was so tame, and the story still rather interesting with Sisko becoming Bell in a time loop, that I still like it well enough. Solid B on its own, but due to my own history and bias, it has to be up to S tier. Unfortunate you both didn't enjoy it, but that can happen if there's a strong disconnect with how the story is told.

Welp .... You guys ... I don't think you get it ... and I don't think you ever will

Dudes, this was written in the 1990's to express deep concern about the most marginalised in society. Approx 30 years later and this issue has continued to deteriorate. The point of this story is not to make the audience "enjoy" the experience of watching it. Instead we were meant to find it a difficult watch and an alarm bell.

WOW, I've always really enjoyed this 2 parter. I never realized this one wasn't liked. I think I'll just skip this reaction if it's so hated and wait for Voyager instead.

So now I have to pause the reaction to figure out which ECW wrestler corresponds with which DS9 character. Including all the ones you haven’t met yet. Also, Enterprise is totally TNA

E-tier is wild. There are at least 3 Trek two-parters we've seen thus far that are worse than this one. The two biggest problems with Past Tense is it should have been one episode, and there needed to be less of Bashir being somehow bewildered that something like the Sanctuary District existed. I feel that chocking up the episode to "poverty is bad. E-tier" misses the point. I'd rate this one a B.

I knew the streak was coming to an end. I'm often wrong about what you will think of an episode, but I knew how unbearable you would find this one.

Hmmm. I received notices that my comment was liked, but my comment is gone? Was I censored? I know there weren't spoilers in it.

Often I see people say that they didn't like an episode but your reaction changed their minds. I gotta say, the effect works in reverse as well. I used to think this was an okay episode (not a favorite, but fine), but watching your reaction made me think now that this was terribly boring and badly done.

For 2 people who wanted an entire episode about a pick nick, I don't understand the frustration over them filling out Forms and Bashir at the job interview :D. I mean isn't that exactly what you always ask for? I guess it has to be space forms and job interviews to be fun?

I realized something else. While I am fine with exposition in episodes like this, I think explaining things to Bashir was a mistake, and made him look like an idiot. I'm not very political, but I know who Martin Luther King is, and what he looked like, and everything about that. You're trying to tell me that Bashir, a Starfleet graduate, and an extremely intelligent man doesn't know anything about this pivotal event, Gabriel Bell, etc? Explained in this episode as a moment of national change maybe even MORE groundbreaking than MLK. I am supposed to believe that Starfleet Academy or even Federation schools for kids do not teach Earth History!? I call MASSIVE bullshit. They should have made it Sisko and Kira. Sisko explaining Earth history to her would have felt 500% more natural to the viewing audience. Yes, a lot would have to be rewritten because she's not a doctor, but imagine her empathy for these people, being an ex...lets call her freedom fighter...? I think not ONLY would the exposition be more natural and realistic, but it would have made for a much better storyline, and there could have been an added bonus into character growth for Kira...maybe understanding Humans a little better and realizing they have a close emotional kinship with Bajorans. Perhaps she forms a bond with Webb's son, Danny? Those two talking and understanding the state of things could have been SO much better than Bashir's stupidly asking questions, and preaching to the audience. It could have even made this episode an 'A' or higher. I don't *loathe* this episode. I know I have been all over the place because it's so impossible for me to give a proper letter grade. I said M for Meaningless half joking, and then conceded it's a C- or D+ but that doesn't work either. If C is baseline mid, this is much worse. But a D+ is too close to E which this is not. So I will give it a percentage. 0% is completely irredeemable and offensive to existance and a 100% is perfect in every way imaginable. (I don't believe any piece of media ever reached either extremes) Final take? I will give it: 41% (or 4.1 out of 10)

E C DUB! EC DUB! EC DUB!

Guys, the point wasn't to have our 24th century characters change. It was to show what life could be like and is like, if we conveniently ignore the reality of other people's suffering - because out of sight, out of mind. And to provoke us into thinking about how that self-deception happens so very easily. Our inadvertent time travellers already live in in a utopian post scarcity society (though being in Star Fleet, they step beyond that more than most citizens of The Federation). They didn't need to change. We - then (in the '90s) and now - need to change.

It's cool that the romulans expanded to one solar system away from earth. They've been busy!

Thats ir for me. Unsubbing, peace. Its been fun.

When I last watched these episodes I didn't notice the "preachyness" of them, now that I've watched it with you guys I can see it now, I would have thought this would be a C teir episode before this reaction. Thanks for making me dislike this episode now instead of being indifferent about it.

This is not an a for sure, which given a great season could make it the worst of the season, however Sisko was very fatherly of Bashir, mostly his character but I also wonder if in the beginning of planning he was supposed to be Jake inseam of Bashir. They could have done a better job illustrating their point. Sorry I have no wrestling jokes for you, haven’t watched since watching with my brother in the nineties so I barely remember some of the big names. I just can’t wait for you to see other episodes. But first to my darling Voyager. But I have a question, a few episodes of season three are now on YouTube, are we no longer doing the patreon teir ranking (its fine if not just wondering)?

I agree. I hate the preachy commentary. Very boring episode.

Feel like that guy who loads up a 'funny' youtube video in front of their friends and they sit there quietly staring at it lmao. Jokes aside it's imo an episode that pushes a pretty accurate representation of how dogshit our actual modern society is although its way too preachy about it. They broke that show don't tell rule. I'd score it a high B just for that atmosphere + shotguns and old school shootouts & the great guest actors (except the billy the kid guy)

Whenever I do a loose re-watch of DS9 I always skip this one because it's not entertaining and boring imo.

My dad used to say "There's always gonna be someone in the group that just doesn't like pizza" when faced with someone who dislikes what everyone else loves. Respect their decision even if you strongly disagree with it

Well, I figured you guys would think the first part would drag, because goddamn it really does, but I thought the second part would have pulled the two parter up for you to, say a high C or low B. Not an E for certain! I think having watched this back when it first came out the thought of a bleak future like this in the U.S. of A. was a pretty big stretch. Seems eerily prescient these days. But your comparison of the Star Trek franchise of the 90's to Attitude Era WWE/F was GOLD! And Babylon 5 = WCW? Accurate! If nothing else, your guys reaction made my day. Watching you guys squirm a bit is as entertaining as watching you enjoy the episodes! LOL! Glad to be along for the journey, guys!

This should have been one episode. And even though it was at times slow at least they took a swing.

“Poverty is bad” isn’t the point. Segregating societal problems so they’re out of view and can be ignored by most people instead of facing the problems is the point.

WOKE!!!!!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂

Wow. I had no idea you would hate this so much. But after what’s happened to entertainment since 2015 I’m not surprised by your reaction. I’m actually very pleased you hated it. https://youtu.be/JKkb0qXbyUY?si=0wWU8ywiiXuIrzIJ

Well their reaction was pretty much what i expected.

Hmm, might skip this one. I enjoy hearing opinions that are different from mine, but not sure I'm up for two hours of denigration of one of my favorite Trek episodes. See you on Voyager!

This is the one time they’re complaining “where’s the plot?” 🤦

Oh boy, this will go done well.

IIRC it was Michael Piller who decided to make this a two parter. In the original outline, it was a single episode, with acts 1-3 being the set up for a hostage crisis in acts 4-5. Piller thought the hostage material was strong enough for a whole episode & told them to expand it. Personally this 2 parters a solid A. I especially enjoy the guest cast.

I do like this episode even though I do prefer when they mask the political topics with aliens, I think this is a good story still for what its trying to be. But that said this is what I point to when people try to say Trek is political, this is one of the biggest example of blatant political message story. That said it did commit the #1 sin for Alex I think though, it told him how he should feel about something (verses actually invoking those feelings through scene), almost guaranteed bad score then. And granted the "ghost" actor was a bit too animated for my tastes.

You have to remember that this was written in the 90s, back then people could afford houses and Pizza Hut personal pan pizzas. Back then, these ideas were a fictional fantastical cautionary tale for the future, not an overplayed "do better, senator" heard it 1000 times reflection of the current day. I'm not saying it makes it great, but I did want to clarify that this story was a far more novel idea at the time than you guys are giving it credit for, the 90s weren't at all this bad. Remember, the 90s had livable wages and Pizza Hut personal pan pizzas!

I am sorry they didnt like it because its one of my fav two parter

This two-parter is boring and the story is mostly dumb. Josh's white board reaction was spot on. I agree with the message: poverty is bad. However, the episode is a terrible way to talk about it.

I think WW3 is after this? The Eugenics Wars happened in the 90s.

Oof fiery commentary from the dudes. This episode certainly had the subtlety of a baseball bat though.

Afterschool Special Bashir had me laughing for a good 2 minutes.

This episode has a couple of spectacular quotes "Errol Flynn was born in Tasmania!" "And check your email buddy, you're a loser too!" Lastly I'm so impressed they got the myth the legend Rick Astley to appear

Here, you fix it :The Double Episode. Back in the day shows used to do this kind of crap every once in awhile. It was never as often as the, Very Special Episodes, but it was never even close to being as sincere. These "issue" shows don't do anything good, The people who don't care, get shown the issue is dumb, and the people who were already on the "good side" feel pandered to, if not made fun of. I also feel it gives off an accusatory quality, as if to say all of us regular people should stop watching T.V. and fix this.

Incoming comments making comparisons to vaguely similar sociopolitical phenomena

Cringe take incoming (Josh)...I was in my early 20's and very idealistic when this episode aired. NAFTA was one year old and I was someone who very much opposed that trade deal. Alas, globalization was going to happen and Clinton put it on steroids. The episodes were boring, yes, but the was an aspect of the story that resonated with me at that time. The working class was hollowed out and put behind gates. The only difference between the show and the world we live is the rich live behind the gates. Alex somewhat alluded to it in his last crashout about the writers and limousines. Sometimes these folks really do care even though they are a cog in the larger machine. I get it, I'm being preachy...it just hits differently, for some, if you were a young adult living in that time vs a 5-year old. OK, I'm burning my soapbox now. Looking forward to the next episode.

Okay the plot armor joke was good

Star Trek has a history of taking on certain issues of the time. I understand where you may not have the.... patience and imagination to see what this 2 parter is conveying. i was 10 when this aired. and i still see the similarities and issues that just...never changed since even then. That's totally fine. i feel these episodes may resonate with a rewatch later on after all the other treks. but also, Trek always takes on societal situations. even you two can admit that with TOS. it may lose some... Gravitas with time. but the issues still remain. Some times we old heads forget that time marches on. what hit for us then may not hit for future generations. Nuance and all that. These episodes hit for me since i have gone through similar situations in the past and current. It holds a place for me. but obviously not for you and that is ok. There is still so much more to come, and i hope this makes a rewatch more bearable.

It's one of those things that may have been talked over and missed, but actually, Sisko (Bell) DID die. The guard swapped their IDs with two casualties, so history recorded Bell died, just as he did in the original timeline.

You guys were probably watching Legacy in TNG when this episode was supposed to happen, actually that’s a week off because I forgot….well….

These review brahs get triggered over the funniest things 🫠. While many often look back with rose coloured glasses, this message ~was~ important on TV at the time. But yeah, so-so episodes.

I think a lot of people remember this two-parter for the impactful themes, the cutting philosophical ideas, the "prophetic nature" of the social commentary... and a few really good lines. But a lot of us forget how agonizingly diluted all of that is across ninety minutes of "meh". Myself included. Sorry about the streak ending. I still generally "like" this episode, but I don't go back often to play it much. I think I might now know why.

The episode sucks so bad I don't even want to watch the reaction.

While I respect you're opinion on the episodes, despite disagreeing, I think it is entirely unfair and uncalled for to suggest that those behind star trek are doing nothing about the issues. Star Trek has a long history of promoting social change and inspiring people to do better. And remember, back in this era, social media wasn't around, people really weren't always aware just how bad things were, it was very easy to overlook these sorts of problems in society, so quite blatantly highlighting them in popular media was in itself helping. We can't fix problems we don't notice or find convenient ways to ignore. I'd suggest that those behind star trek have had a significantly more positive impact on society than the average member of society. You don't like the episode, fine, but don't shit all over people who are doing significantly more than the average for society.

The only way a Star Trek writer during the TNG and DS9 eras got anywhere near a limo was if they drove one as a side gig to help make their own car payments

its funny cause I think in the 90s it was good. but looking at it from a focus of 2026 its a bit on the nose. in the 90s it was a warning .. get your shit together... in 2026 its a see we told you... I get why you would hate this. it makes me laugh cause of the stuff they nailed and what they thought the future would look like... overall I cant argue about your take and how much you hate it .. as a mater of fact I think it would have shocked me if you loved this one. that said I think if you took the story out of the DS9 context you might have enjoyed .. 90s were big on end of the world type movies and shows .. Vampire stuff because of Aids ... global weather cause of global warming threat.

Oof. Part 2 wasn't as captivating as I remembered. It did have an Important Message™, and there were more good conversations — the "everyone always says that and nothing ever changes" chief among them. But it was hamstrung by everything obviously taking place on a backlot, and no significant development for any of our characters. It was like the worst of TOS, where our characters feel like they're walking through someone else's story. But I still can't give either episode an E. The producers were trying to hit on something important and they broke out of the DS9 norm to do it, even if they didn't do it very well. I'd say straight D for part 1 and D+/C- for part 2. I wish you didn't have to leave DS9 on this note for a couple weeks, but you'll come back to better episodes. And in the meantime... a new voyage.

This is just confusing to me cause I don't really see this episode as that preachy and I think there's a lot to it other then that. This episode is just Crossover. Two main crew people get trapped in a hostile environment where their life is danger only this plot is more complex and engaging than Crossover because they have to preserve the timeline even if it places their lives in danger and we also see our crewmates try to help them. Bashirs "its not your fault" scene or Siskos "you don't get it do you" have nothing to do with speaking to the audience or preaching, those are personal character moments for them and the people they're speaking to. Bashir wants to be empathahic and reach out to people and tell them its not their fault even when reality isn't always so idealistic. Sisko ranting at the guard is the exact equivalent of how in Crossover Kira was speaking to mirror Sisko and ranting at how he's become a slave who gave up and accepted that bad things will stay bad and that she cares about freedom. It's literally the exact same scene. The only reason I can think of for why you liked one and disliked the other is that you were already checked out of the episode and came at this scene with a bias of expecting preachiness.

Star Trek was never woke. It was progressive. Two VERY different things.

Chief and Kira emerge from the transporter beam, smoke billowing through the dusty streets. Kira looks at the Chief with confusion as a strange noise begins to get louder. “Mmm-hmm woo! AHA! Mmm-hmm!” “Look Kira! It’s the legendary 19th century author - Mark Twain!”

I love this episode. But I suppose that for this one the point of view is really, really important. Back in the early 90s the general feeling was a good one. (I know, I know, not everywhere in the world) but for the most countries, especially EU and US. The cold war was over, there was no feeling of a thread or a potential war at the horizon. A lot of technology innovations... So when this one aired, I thougt that this future may become reality if we left those people (or countries) behind and don't start helping them. It was a warning and therfore an interesting episode. I'm only 32 minutes in the reaction and you already statet that its boring and that its known that 2024 was bad. And somehow its really sad. Not that you said/felt this way, the sad part is that after 30 years "bad" became the reality. People are already overrun by media/news of bad situation and don't want to be remindet in a tv show too. I get it. Therefore: this episode has no chance of beeing seen as it was intendet in the 90s. And there is nothing to discuss or worry about. Star Trek covers a lot of storys and ideas, so its nice that they spent two episodes to this topic. And why not? We already have a lot of space nebula anomalies episodes ;) So like it or not (I do and it wont change) and on the next episode it may be the other way around for other reasons. However, Alex you missed an outstanding delivery in the Bashir monologue about the high morals of the federation and if they would hold when putting enough pressure from the outside. Don't think you'll rewatch the episode, but maybe this part. And somehow it remindet me of the concept of beeing vegan. If you crash with a plane, you survive, but the only thing to eat is beef... do you keep your high moral?

Alright, that does it! I've put up with your bad takes plenty of times before, but a double E, you took it too far!! Wanna know what else is Past Tense? My membership. I'll give my money to content creators who validate my opinions instead of having their own. Good day sirs! (Storms out) But seriously, it's not the end of the world. I can actually agree with a lot of the criticisms, and like Shatner's Cigarette(I think) was saying the other day, a big part of the problem is the generational divide between people who saw this in the 90s and today. Granted I'm not much older than you guys, but I saw all this as a young kid as opposed to my late 20s/early 30s. Part of that is that preachy movies and TV weren't AS common back then. They were around, but it wasn't like today where almost every piece of media seems to want to be preachy about something to the point where it just becomes annoying and predictable. I wouldn't however say TV writers in the 90s would be the ones "at the party". They'd be upper middle class at best. We're not talking about Speilbergs and Scorseses here. Ultimately, it hasn't aged well for multiple reasons, and I would say that takes some of the shine off. Still, I'd give part one maybe a C-, and part 2 a b or B-, so maybe C+ overall. I agree in principle with your criticisms, but those things don't provoke nearly the same level of irritation for me. It's fine. An interesting time capsule to look at and compare to how the 2020s actually turned out, and it is a bit more lore that connects a few more dots between our near future/present and the future of Star Trek. I understand not enjoying at as a couple hours of television though. On to Voyager.

Fantastic episodes! One of the rare times I'm tempted to mute Alex and Josh and just enjoy the episode it

Pushing back, my use of the word woke is correct in my Patron take. As under the umbrella of the modern term is having awareness of systemic social injustice. I'd say that shining a light on a system where people less fortunate have no way of improving their socioeconomic situation counts. It's not just identity politics. But I appreciate you reading it.

Guys... Josh seems to really dislike TimeTravel... so... how do I tell him I'm his 40 year old great grandson? Any suggestions, welcome.

I love these episodes!Star Trek Social Commentary at its best I think. This is still very up to date. The quote "Causing people to suffer because you hate them... is terrible. But causing people to suffer because you have forgotten how to care." is one of my favourite - and unfortunately accurate - DS9 quotes.

I like it

I always thought this was a rather dull two parter but it is a little better on a rewatch.

1995??!???? I was in undergrad then!!!

I have no stake in what other people think of individual Star Trek episodes, but I do love watching these guys react to them even when I disagree with their opinions. I think this episode is poignant and theres some good stuff here but I also think it shouldn’t be a 2-parter and the supporting cast are mostly boring so I don’t care what happens to them. Sisko with a shotgun is badass though!

Which is wrestling TOS???

Voyager! Voyager! Voyager! In a way I am glad you started Voyager after this, you were ready

As for the acting, let me just tell you what 150 comments on YouTube will say, these guest characters were supposed to be over stressed mostly delusional people so they kind of acted to what that scenario would be. Now I will give your response, we don’t want to watch that episode on star trek then I might say in that sort of scenario if they were really that close to the eugenics wars the government would have"…..

Whilst you raise some valid points, I think sometimes the writer(s) believe (rightly or wrongly) that the allegory approach may be too subtle for the message they wish to put across. My wife and I work with some of the most vulnerable in society and it's a sad state of affairs. Some people, through no fault of their own, slip through cracks of society and end up with no voice or agency in the own future, despite wanting to be part of and contribute to society. Yes, writers can be heavy handed at times with their messaging but they clearly feel strongly about the subject matter and don't feel allegory will work and need to be more on the nose. I understand that irks some people and I'm sure we've all seen more recent similar reactions to films and TV shows trying to put a message across. They just want to be entertained after their day and don't want to be 'preached' at. Perhaps the message was stronger than the story in this episode and everyone is entitled to their view, that's fair. But, even 30 years later the problem still persists in many, if not all countries. Perhaps they should have used a bigger sledge-hammer to hit home their message.

Their 2024 is pretty close to our 2024/2026.

They said we will understand if we are aware that they watch from a present day perspective and not from the time it aired. Sometimes I think that's unfortunate.

Wow! I haven't seen this much controversy since Star Trek 6.

Preachy works. I can get behind that term in this circumstance.

Wow, I think this is the first time where I think their assessment of an episode is "dog shit". Sometimes Trek stories are allegory but sometimes they are discussion of actual events (like in time travel episodes) where the plot is part of Trek's history. It's no spoiler that in Trek lore, as fluid as it is, between the 1990s and the founding of the Federation there are a lot of really dark moments in human history (the Eugenics wars) but bright moments too (the Irish Reunification of 2024). The Bell Riots are just a part of that dark history and its ups and downs. It adds to that lore. They could have made the episode(s) an allegory about homelessness and set it on another planet but I think the urgency of the message of this one and not just saying "this could be bad if it happened on Earth" but rather "this actually DID happen on earth in Trek's timeline, and it happened really close to when we're writing it, try to do better than the humans in Trek" makes it better than an allegory (and of course, we failed to live up to that challenge)

Well, I've heard you say on more than one occasion that you would rather have the episode be really good or really bad. I guess, be careful what you wish for?

Damn. I knew (from your faces) only minutes in that you were loathing it. Am I surprised? Not really, but a bit...considering this is in fact one of the better-rated 2-parters of all Star Trek (7.8 & 7.9 on IMDB). This two-parter is one that comes up A LOT in people's favourites. But then, I have come to expect the unexpected on here :) The only thing I'm genuinely astounded by is the E score, not from one but BOTH of you. E sounds kinda wild, tbh. But to each their own. Shame that this high-rated two-parter completely breaks the season for you, and that we finish the DS9 spree on two Es.

You guys are consistent, I had a sense you wouldn’t like this one (though your trailer was awesome) its a c for me, can’t wait for Voyager and better DS9! Now I am thinking of all the other patrons who tomorrow will find all these comments and know. I excuse it not being our 2024 because the Star Trek universe didn’t have Star Trek so isn’t ours (I believe City on the edge of forever shows us a different pre world war 2, the only way Edith Keeler would have encouraged her values was if the Pacific theater never happened so it is clearly a different universe.)

Horror connection(s) Too many to count, so ill pick the top 3 first movies that comes to mind Dick Miller: Chopping Mall Clint Howard: The Ice Cream Man Jim Metzler (Brynner): Children of the Corn 3

At least Samuel Clemens didn’t show up

DS9 is more an allegory of the breakup of Yugoslavia with Bosnia (Barjons) and Croatia (Cardassians ). Being a teen watching , some elements and themes in certain episodes (not this one) were pretty on the nose with the news.

oh man this reaction makes me REALLY excited for a well loved future episode which I will not name here.

Okay so, there are obviously difficulties when having a discussion online where there aren't just all the people in the room conversing. But I think you were a little unfair to the people who talk about the message in this episode (and other star trek media to some extent). At least in regard to Past Tense, the message is the story. We are not "replacing" our assessment of the episode with our assessment of the message/social commentary. Those two things are not mutually exclusive here. I understand your point about it not being executed well. I disagree, but I understand your perspective there. And I do think it's overly simplistic to say that the message of the episode is "poverty bad". I would assume you found the story itself to be overly simplistic, I would argue it's about way more than that. It's discussing how these issues develop, what perpetuates them, how social unrest leads to meaningful change, and how it's easy to be apathetic to suffering. It explores the mindsets of many types of people from different walks of life and how they contribute to this kind of environment. Yes there are not a lot of plot developments, but it's trying to show a believable scene of social unrest, piece by piece. PS. (Anyway, I hope this didn't come off rude or aggressive or anything. I just figured since you guys were direct and honest about your views here, I would be as well. Congrats if you read all this lol)

Morn could be Gold Dust

I remember loving this one when I was a kid. As far as I can remember it was very well received at the time.

For me it’s a decent enough two parter but it’s got several flaws, it feels like an hours worth material stretched to 90 mins. It has some weak guest performances. It is a little too preachy at times. Is it the weakest DS9 two parter so far? Yes. Weakest of all Trek? No. Its depressing tho as 2024 seem so far away when i first watched this one - getting old.

Commenting after part 1: I'm biased because I loved this two-parter when it aired -- the dystopian future stuff was suitably scary and cool for a teenager. Watching it now, this strikes me as a story that ran maybe 10 minutes too long for one episode, so they stretched the beginning into an episode of its own, and they did it in the worst way, with a bunch of moralizing that went on way too long and led nowhere. Yikes. I do remember part 2 bringing in the action, so we'll see if it improves. I do enjoy the "welcome, new boy" antagonist because he's got that Ted Levine voice. I keep waiting for the scene where they discover the cistern in his basement.

I don't particularly like this episode. Not as much as you guys don't like it, it's more of a low C for me. It tends to receive a lot of praise (it's in a bunch of top 10 lists) but I think it's a good example of the difference between something being important in the sense of teaching a moral/social lesson that people need to hear; and something being an engaging episode of television. It was definitely the former; but it fails at the latter. I'm more tolerant of setting episodes in the present day that you guys are, and I don't think that was the problem, but it was definitely stretched thin. I think there is a way to tell basically this same story, in a single episode, and have it be an engaging story but the writers here didn't quite manage it.

The point it became clear you didn't like it was when I looked at the thumbnail of the video.

I didn't like this for just one reason. This is NOT the 2024 we lived in. I know it's not the episode's fault, but I'm sorry....it breaks the immersion and I can't take it seriously. It's the same exact reason why I can't stand Back to The Future 2. It's NOT our 2015, so therefore it's a meaningless movie now. Maybe it would have hit me different if I was alive and watched this when it aired in the 90's, but they call it 2024 and no one has smart phones, no YouTube, no real internet even. Again, I get it's not the episodes fault for not having psychics on the staff, lol. I am sure this is an unpopular viewpoint, but I don't like "future" stuff (as in our future), and the date comes, and it's not accurate to our present. It's just a me thing. I rate this episode as M. For Meaningless. I cannot give this any other grade than that.

As someone who isn’t a morning person I’m glad you did your first early morning reaction to the worst 2 parter in DS9. At least watching this in the 90s the view of a possible future was slightly interesting.

Disappointed in this one. Def an A episode.

To be fair to Josh and Alex, I always think this is boring on my rewatches; Clearly it should have been one episode. I do disagree with that it wasn't "in universe"; back in the 90s, 2024 felt like it was far in the future. This was meant to be a cautionary tale. They also semi-predicted things like social media, etc. We didn't have computers like that in 90s fellas, this was straight dystopian sci-fi back then. Did this age well? No. Is it a good rewatch? No. Should it be erased from cannon though? Absolutely not, I remember watching this in the 90s, and it resonated with me back then. I even remember rewatching this circa 2008, and it still felt a long ways off, and even more relevant. The homeless problem in CA wasn't nearly as bad when this aired as it is now, so based on the fact of how predictive it was makes it noteworthy, even if it may not be entertaining. Add to this that we currently have masked "agents" rounding people up in unmarked vans based on skin color, and straight up murdering civilians, it resonates even more. Maybe that's just me, because I know some people who were rounded up like this a few months ago. Star Trek is woke and preachy sometimes, going back to TOS; that's just Star Trek. But yes, I agree the execution did not age well in this instance.

This should go well. Just remember, everyone, don’t say anything you’ll regret later!

Sad sound 😢 lol It’s all right guys. Be honest.

Sir, there's been another "star trek 6" incident.

Nah guys, you have it all wrong! Stargate SG1 would be the WCW. Definitely agree with Sisko as Taz, I'm sure he speared the first Jem'Hadar he met - GORE!!

Would Dukat be Paul Haymen? The Cardassians would be the Dangerous Alliance

Thank you. 💗🖖

Oh man I can't WAIT to see if the streak continues!