UNCUT - Equilibrium (DS9 S3E4) | Star Trek Journey 332

That was a very religious looking scene for such a science person.

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 5 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1

When she first sees the figure, the masks he removes are to represent Jadzia and Curzon, since they both were before Joran. Its a great detail you would forget about, and only really catch unless you watched again.

I almost fell out of my chair when you said the Trill government murdered Joran. That's just a wild jump. The truth is we don't know how he died, but none of the conjectures I've heard is that the Trill government did it.

It's possible Jadzia is attracted to Julian, but, not the symbiot, or vice versa

They have a full roll of toilet paper at the ready during the discussion! 🤣

Nice to see Terry get a couple of nice scenes acting wise but I agree that this was a nice idea for a story that could have been executed better. I forgot this episode existed.

Picard pays for the 5G satellites to talk to Star Fleet, the average officer can only afford 4G LTE at best lol

My theory is originally the symbiotes were a parasite but they eventually evolved to work together. I can imagine in Trill's history maybe there was a noble class that was secretly joined

Ugh have to watch on Paramount + now as it's left Netflix and the video doesn't sync well anymore 😭. Also, "Zionistic"? Yikes.

I agree with you that this episode is mostly fine, but a little boring. I really like the scene between Dax and Bashir in his quarters. Nice character work, which Rene Echevarria is very good at. I like the next episode quite a lot more. (Not a spoiler, since I know you've already seen it.)

Love your enemies? Extend unconditional love and acceptance to the Cardassians?? Can only heal through accepting what they did on Setlik III?! This is not a Captain Maxwell approved ethos #RememberThePhoenix

Not one mention in the takes of Odo’s mixing skills with the bowl 🥣 😂

With my patron take, I agree with you that all of that doesn't really come from the episode, and it's probably not going to be something that you think about in a first watch through. But if you're like me, and you watched these shows countless times over 30+ years, you find more and more messages, and more and more real life in them as time goes on. For me personally, I think I've gotten to a point by now to where not a day goes by that I don't link something random happening in my day to a scene in Star Trek.

Sorry about the mid-episode name change, I am new and decided that Dr. Stubbs would be more fun to roleplay than Dr. Quiace. Re-watching this with the commentary, I still don't like the ending where Jadzia integrates with Joran. I don't see how Joran is much/any different from Verad in Invasive Procedures, aside from the fact that he lived as Dax for longer. Did Jadzia/Dax have to embrace her Verad persona as well? I don't remember her having a fondness for that guy or incorporating him into her host "canon" back in that episode... That said, props again to BN13. That's a great take and had me re-thinking things, like Picard in I, Borg.

As for subspace communications… Federation space occupies a very small percentage of the Alpha Quadrant with an overlap into the Beta Quadrant. There are subspace relays set up all throughout Federation space (we saw one in “Aquiel”). Evidently, this network extends into the Klingon Empire, perhaps due to their treaty with the Federation.

Josh forgets the name of Kahless...the Unforgettable.

So, let's go back, Starfleet is able to have real time communications due to subspace relay stations which boost signals. There was one in the TNG episode Aquiel. I would assume that for a planet, they would have to patch into some type of planetary network, which I believe Bashir did to contact Yolad. The character moments are nice in this episode. I like the little bits about Julian too (my favorite DS9 character) but he is so warm here and genuinely concerned for Jadzia. With the Trill, it does seem like the society might have a few flaws of its own. Since there is so much emphasis placed on the Symbiosis commission and everything and the lengths they go to to protect information. I wonder if there are some other unsavory bits.

This is a big concept episode that doesn't really put a lot of energy or stakes into the actual 3rd act. It starts off great, and give Dax something to do. I feel like they could have kept that attitude and lack of emotional control throughout the episode. If she got to the point where she was going to murder the other doctor you could have Sisko and Bashir working to stop her. Maybe a bit too much like the Odo turns heel episode though.

I think the implication with the Keeper is he's so absorbed in his work he's not had time to go back to the surface in a long time.

On rewatch this felt weaker they should have played up the murder and been more clear about who did what and why? And maybe Dax should have played detective not been prone on a table while the boys are sleuthing.

This is a "meat and potatoes" kind of episode, but with a large side of Broccoli. Healthy, important to eat, cooked decently well with a bit of char so it's still tasty, but overall... a bit dull in certain spots. Still, given all the lore and excellent character scene with Bashir and Jadzia, I have to give it a low B. Insightful Patron take by BN13, well done. WOKE CAREBEAR!!

the known host before curzon wasn't 6 months in a coma. 6 months before curzon got dax the host died and dax was given to joran belar. joran become unstable 6 months later and dax was transfered to curzon. so they changes the host before joran day of death to jorans.

notes from Memory Alpha- As someone mentioned, the inspiration for this episode was from the magic show of Jeff McBride who plays Joran. Michael Piller saw Mcbride's show, loved it, and commissioned his friend, Christopher Teague, to come up with a story based on it. McBride's act involved the removal of masks from what appears to be a single mask to reveal multiple layers of masks underneath. The original story by Teague was about a traveling space circus with a magician who winds up being involved a murder, a mystery involving the use of magic to hide it, but the DS9 writing staff wasn't keen on the idea. Echevarria change the focus of the story to Odo and a mystery involving a series of disturbing dreams which were clues emerging from his subconscious, but Moore (who was involved in the writing after all) suggested switching the focus from Odo to Jadzia as the central image of a series of masks revealing other masks fit more with the concept of the trill. Echevarria based the scene with Dax in the pool on the play Equus. Originally, the vegetable Bashir disliked was supposed to be rutabagas as a tribute to Frank Zappa from the song "Call Any Vegetable" but Echevarria thought beets were funnier (possibly inspired by the nickelodeon show "Doug"?) It's interesting Alex mentioned the appearance of the Defiant's bridge as this episode featured some changes in design which would stay to make it look more defined and "starfleetish". Behr mentioned it featured the Bashir-Dax relationship evolving beyond him wanting to bang her which he was thankful for as he didnt like that angle and the way it came across previously. He agreed with TA that it was expositionn heavy because of the complex nature of the mystery but felt it worked as Terry Farell was great at expressing both Jadzia's vulnerability and strength. Quote from Echevarria that speaks very much to the way the guys felt, that he seemed to feel the same way, and why that was. "I think there were a lot of interesting things about the Trill homeworld that you found out in the episode. I'm not sure how well it played out as a mystery, though. In order to be satisfying, you want the audience to conk themselves on the forehead and say 'Why didn't I think of that?' and I'm not sure if they do. It was a troubled script in that we were writing stuff that was filming the next day three or four days into the shoot. We had locked down certain scenes that we would have liked to have changed the new climax, and so on, The more the script was rewritten over and over again, it just kept losing focus and regaining focus. It's just one of those things where you're trying real hard to make it work, but ultimately you're not satisfied with the end result. It's an intriguing idea, and the episode holds up pretty well in some of its elements, but it's not quite satisfying in the last couple of acts. It becomes too much of Bashir and Sisko running around investigating the mystery rather than concentrating on the character of Dax" I find the idea of how the tight deadlines effected the how interesting, and cant help but wonder whether more time would ultimately result in a beter show (or if something is lost without the time constraint and pressure. I know some of the better things I've written were when there was a time crunch and I didn't have time to overthink or rewrite and just had to go with the flow.) But its also funny how Echevarria's thoughts mirrored the thoughts of TA so closely. I suppose they have seen enough Star trek to have some similar thoughts about what the end result should look like and what kind of pitfalls it should get into, though I definitely don't agree with "here comes to the plot" which I think only applies when like in TNG they had to through in the sci fi problem of the week when the main interest was a character story, but I totally disagree that is the case when it's the "epic, big plot" stuff of DS9. Alexander Siddig was quite fond of this one. I like the medical ones because, after all, that's what I was hired to do. I play a doctor. It's really nice to actually get around to doing those occasionally, as long as the language isn't too horrific. When it gets too complicated, it totally fries my mind. I don't think it was too harsh in that show. I particularly liked it because it offset the usual Dax/Bashir relationship for the first time. It actually showed everybody that we could possibly be good friends and that's what might happen between them. As far as I know, people have accepted that quite readily. People quite like the friendliness of their relationship now. It's like Bashir is second best, almost good enough, silver medal" Too funny, from the "Continuity" section- "This is the first episode to reveal that Sisko is from New Orleans, to feature the Trill homeworld and to show that Jadzia's spots do go down to her feet, as they can be seen briefly in shots of her on the hospital bed. " Does TA promise they didn't read memory alpha for this one? lol The Trill capital city while not named in this episode is shown on star charts as "Mak'ala"

My interpretation of why the hallucination/memory scenes were so weird, is that our dreams are expressions of both memories and emotions and warnings that something is off. I think all of the masked figures were representing that the dax simbiote was feeling like something very scary was being hidden. So that emotion mixed with the actual memories in the dreams in the form of scary masked figures.

Beets are terrible vegetables

I like to imagine that the whole time all this is going on, back on the station Odo is still awkwardly trying to stir a bowl of food because nobody ever came back to tell him to stop

This is a *really* complicated way to learn to play the piano.

The "official story" is that Torias Dax was badly injured in a shuttle accident, and was in a coma for 6 months before Dax was transferred to Curzon. The reality is that Torias died in the shuttle accident and Dax was immediately given to Joran. 6 months later, Joran was killed and Dax was given to Curzon after having its memory of Joran blocked out. They made up the story of Torias being in a coma to explain the 6 month gap in Dax's memory and official history. Most of Joran's history was erased from the record. They only kept the date of his birth and the date of his death. But Sisko noticed that Joran died on the same day that Curzon received Dax, which was also the same (falsified) day listed as Torias's death.

star Trek should not do masks

I'll have to admit i snoozed a little during tis episode its a bit of a snoozer

"Uprise of the Guardians". That's a damn fine title lol Also, I presume the "nearly half" of their population is a conservative estimate. I'm going to bet it's like having big oil do their own research on their environmental impact. I suspect the number is closer to a majority of their population, if not 100%, and the whole process is just prejudice. Either way, I think the process is based on prejudice. Also, do you think that maybe the Symbiote population is controlled? If that were the case, I think that is a great way to distinguish social classes/how "special" certain Trills are. Keep the Symbiote population low and maintain the social strata. Perhaps the Symbiotes want their population controlled to maintain how "special" they are or as a means of protecting themselves, and this plot of theirs they are able to hide from their host. I think there's a lot of great material to really expand on the Trills and Symbiotes.

Kinda feel like they should have at least made note that she contacted the brother. But no biggie. I can assume that happened off camera.

The one you forgot was Torias Dax! Don't worry guys you'll remember them all one day lol. For me this is yet another A, but a lower ranking A than The Search, and The House Of Quark.

I think they could have played up Joran's muder past a bit more. Yeah, the masks halluccinations were cool and a great symbol for hiding among the hosts, but how much more visually arresting would it be for Jadzia to hallucinate a brutal murder scene, the confrontation, I dunno. I mean, the brother says Joran has a violent temper, but what we see is a cold, calculated, sneaky kill. I think punching that up would've brought the episode up a bit. Maybe this one needed an extra draft or two to hone it.

On the communication aspect: Warp speed is used for physical propulsion -- moving from point A to point B, but subspace is what is used for sending messages. I can't go further in depth without spoiling certain things -- but subspace is a term that has been used before. In fact a few episodes have lines that are "get me xxx person on subspace".

the man in the mask is the former Dax host, the man killed is the doctor that the brother mentions was murdered,

I think the main problem in this episode is that they had to skip through to the end because they ran out of time. If they had an extra 15 minutes, they could explore the Joran/Jadzia relationship much more. But this is what happens with the fixed-length traditional show. I still really like it though.

This episode is fine. But I also give it leeway as I always do with all Dax episodes

Redlettermedia just did their first ever DS9 video (released literally 2 hours ago) and the TrekMovie article about reactions gets a shout out and right in the center is the picture of you an Alex and they even said they’ve watched some of the reactions. You guys really have hit the big time

"Fine" is pretty much where I land. The episode isn't as engaging or interesting as it seems on paper, but it's not bad.

Deep Space Fine checks out.

Nightmare comment section

LOL!!! I see Alex used my toilet paper!!!!

It's a good story and episode, but it definitely is a slow one. I feel like too much of the reveal/solution was crammed in at the end. Maybe less of her visions and time on the station earlier would've given us time for her reaction that you guys were hoping for. And all we see of this huge cover up in Trill society is one mostly nice doctor hiding what she knows. Should have been more of a big deal.

My closest friend is an ENFP/ESFP personality... Marilyn Monroe basically... also, Jadzia. They love and accept everyone, that type, I mean. They especially love the freedom to love and would only give it up for someone special. My friend also can have a fierce temper... which seems to go with that type. They are a very rare type.

Solid episode, if a little dull. It does provide some meaningful developments in Trill lore and also Dax lore, so I can forgive slower pacing. I also think it's interesting to compare Sisko's conduct here to what he did in The Search, especially since both involved Jadzia possibly dying. I don't think either was about whether Sisko sticks to protocol like a good starfleet officer or not. He straight up blackmailed Quark in the pilot, so he's certainly willing to bend/break rules when he deems it necessary. In The Search however, he understood the gravity of their mission and what war with the dominion would mean, so he weighed the millions of people who could die against Dax and O'Brien and decided to leave them, hoping they were just taken prisoner. But to sacrifice Jadzia to cover up the Trill's dirty little secret? To play politics? Not a chance. Now I get why the Trill cover up how many are compatible, though I expect even if the secret got out they'd just have to massively increase security around the symbiote pools. However you might get a lot more cases of people trying to steal symbiotes like Verad did. Sisko gets that too, but he's not going to sacrifice Jadzia or anyone else to protect that secret, so he uses it as leverage instead. I can't see Picard doing that. Maybe Riker. Kirk would in a heartbeat. It'll be interesting to see if having this cold, murderous personality as a previous host changes or plays into Jadzia's character at all, or if the writers just kind of forget about it. And yes, Bashir has come a long way in terms of maturity in the past 2 seasons. He may still be crushing on Jadzia, but he puts their friendship first. Overall, I give it a C+ for Competent

ok, don't mean to get political, but loving your enemies is definitely not "woke" "Woke" is hating everyone who doesn't live up to impossible standards. It's the opposite. Looking for whatever mistake you can find to crucify people. (I don't mean people that are legitimately doing awful things, I mean people who basically agree with you but have the wrong haircut or something. Universal love and acceptance is definitely not it)

"at no point reading a book am I like wahh" Then you haven't read the right books

"they could put into anyone else" Even a human like Riker who was basically overwhelmed by the symbiont but there was still some Riker in there

The "six month coma" never happened. That was the missing time when the symbiont was in Joran.

I’ve always liked this one - it’s never going to win awards as the best episode and maybe its a little overlooked but it’s a competent well made story.

I feel like being a guardian is a bit like deciding to become a monk or something.

So I think you guys are a little mixed up. We have Torias dax, who died from injuries sustained in a shuttle accident - Jadzia says early in the episode that he was in a coma for 6 months before he died, but the implication is that this is a cover up for the Joran period. Joran was given the symbiont by accident, he was a sociopath and a murderer. The circumstances by which he came to have to get the Dax Symbiont are unknown. DAX was removed from him and put into Curzon.

I don't think the secret is a question of corruption - because there are so few symbionts; the Trill government wants to make sure that there is a rigorous selection process to ensure that only the very best and brightest get them, that way the symbiont gets the most out of the joining. If everyone knew that half the population was capable of being joined that system would break down.

I would have found it funny if the tub scene had ended like Friday the 13th, with Joran coming out of the water and dragging Jadzia down, then her waking up!

Interesting how during The Search, you guys were talking about Sisko doing the Good Starfleet Captain thing and not going after Chief and Dax on the planet. In this episode it seems like the Good Starfleet Captain thing would either be to expose the conspiracy of silence around hosts and symbionts or to say "Prime Directive, we can't interfere," and instead he weaponizes it specifically to save a crew member. Maybe he heard you talking? Better episode than I remembered! Of course I didn't really remember it, so low bar, but it still cleared it.

The masks in Jadzia's waking dreams represented her previous hosts and the fact that Joran's memories and personality was hiding (or buried) among them. Once the last "mask" was pulled away and she stared Joran in the face, Jadzia went into shock because the unlocked memories were messing up her medical technobabble levels

For a Chief-less episode, I like this one more than most do. I liked the mystery of what was happening to Dax with the waking nightmares, as well as the reveal that the Symbiosis Commission were not as squeaky clean as they would have us believe. More lore is always better than less lore, whether the "L" is a capital "L" or not

I like this episode. I also noticed Bashir grew up when we weren't looking. His friendship with Chief has become genuine and now we see so much progress with him and Dax. He doesn't hit on her inappropriately anymore. She cares for him and is comfortable enough to sleep in his quarters.

Didn't realize that was Jeff McBride! So funny they got him as a guest just for this gimmic. I'll add a youtube link to my favorite performance. Love how he can produce infinite playing cards out of nowhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIqpGnBz5yA

I'd love it if the music Jadzia starts playing at the beginning is the DS9 theme

if josh and alex ever played one of those star trek rpgs, i think josh would play as a trill 😅

Runs out of story a bit. Too much of Sisko and Bashir running around at the end.

TNG to Enterprise are all what the cast and crew call “letter perfect” - a script supervisor would be on set at all times and ensure that the script was followed word for word, any deviation means you do another take till its right. Improv was not allowed, period.

The Dax hosts seen or mentioned so far: Lela, Tobin, Torias (No. 5), Jarad (No. 6), Curzon (No. 7), Jadzia (No. 8) . So we now know there were eight, that leaves two still missing. I guess Verad ('Invasive Procedures') doesn't count because he had the Dax symbiont only a few hours and wasn't fully joined, whatever that means.

If you think about it, the selection for the Trill hosts IS still incredibly restricted and a special achievement. At least until and unless Sisko goes public or the secret escapes or something, those selection barriers are still in place. It’s just that the restriction is entirely socially enforced — like winning the Olympics or being awarded a Nobel peace prize — rather than being a biologically reinforced requirement as the Trill populace has been told.

Tiriaz was the one who died in an accident the fifth host

Maybe that is my real issue with this episode no Chief

Looking at the first 4 episodes of the season (plus the next one), you can perhaps see the DS9 writers trying to lure TNG viewers in by setting all or part of the stories off the station (Founders’ homeworld, Qo'noS, Trill, Cardassia). It’s like, see? We don’t just sit. We go places!

Definitely not my favourite of the season, but I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. I always felt it was an okay episode (and a necessary one for Jadzia's character growth + Trill lore), but overall, it sorta pales when taken in context of the entire season. Definitely a few fun moments though. I like the intro of this one a lot.

To help ease the integration of Joran into the Dax personality matrix, Jadzia will now choose one person on DS9 a week to murder. Up first, Morn.

Thanks for the all nighter, Josh