UNCUT - The Search Part 2 (DS9 S3E2) | Star Trek Journey 330

the amount of indirect spoilers even in the patron takes is wild to see lol

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version 1ST from prof Moff (the perv) I want to have a go at Admiral Nechayev. Good god she is hot,, stupid but hot. To be clear I want to bend her over a chair..... Not the Fin she gives everyone else The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 GUEST: DETAILS:

You spoke about the cast of the two shows knowing each other, Terry Farrell has said before getting the role of Dax she was already friends with Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, and Michael Dorn.

Josh, you summed it up nicely on your whiteboard, i doubt too many fans will disagree this episode is definitely important.

I think the frustration in the Patreon Takes over the Defiant's significance to the series being spoiled is quite interesting. The fans old enough to see the show when it first went out had a lot more context around things that were introduced to the series, changes each season, old characters returning etc were given lots of publicity and were well trailed, so whilst the episode doesn't necessarily flag the Defiant is going to turn up again, the fans watching at the time would have known from the Marketing that it absolutely would be. So the entirely spoiler free way in which Josh and Alex are (reasonably) wanting to watch all of Star Trek, was entirely impossible for the fans who followed the series originally. Hence frustration at guest starts being "spoiled" in the opening credits - we all knew they were coming at the time thanks to trailers and magazine articles, so these weren't spoilers originally at all.

What I noticed during this rewatch was that when simulated-Jake was talking with his dad in their quarters, he asked - (Fake Jake) "There's something going on, isn't there?" (Sisko) "Like what?" (Fake Jake) "You tell me" But before Sisko can answer, Dax burst in complaining about her sudden transfer orders. The Dominion was not only seeing what kind of response they could expect from Sisko, they were also using the image of his son to probe him more directly for information. This is one of the many benefits of rewatching these series alongside you guys -- I find myself using a far more critical eye rather than relying on comfortable memories

Vader's advanced TIE fighter spinning out in the void during the Battle of Yavin is one of the most obvious sequel teases in the history of cinema Can you really be spoiled that he is in the next movie? On the other hand, the Dominion allowing the Defiant to continue to exist and be given back to our protagonists is a baffling decision in universe.

Hahahaha I laughed so hard at that one-two-punch of "Dammit why did they get rid of Ron Moore WHAAAAAA JONATHAN FRAKES!!!!"

I'm catching up after the break. Glad you liked this one! I love that the Changelings are running a simulation to see how much power they could grab in the Alpha Quadrant through "diplomacy", and how they are slowly turning up the heat, to make the demands crazier and crazier. Testing Starfleet's limit. I love how they plugged Sisko into their mind-reading device and apparently saw that he thought Nechayev was evil. Ha! According to Ira Steven Behr, they told Rene Auberjonois that Odo was going to find his people in this episode and he was disappointed, thinking it shut off possible explorations of his character. He was much happier when he realized what the writers were really doing with this. Yeah, this actually opens a LOT more story possibilities for him. I definitely laughed at your wrap up of the first part, when Alex thought Odo's people were going to save the day, and Josh thought it would just be a standalone story. I knew then that this would be a fun one to watch.

"similar to how the romulans did to Riker" 😭😭😭😭😂😂 bro that was an alien child with a spirit Halloween Roswell grey mask and super long fingers. The romulans were a fake out.

I think after learning that Odo's people are the Founders of the Dominion, it adds another layer to the scene in Part 1 where Odo growls at Quark. Yes Odo is near his limit of having to morph into a liquid, is being strongly called home, and is dealing with the loss of his job. But I think we get a glimpse here of the Founders true nature and how they actually view the solids: "I have no interest in speaking to you, or listening to your witless prattle! So stay out of my way, or you'll regret the day you ever met me!" This part of their nature was probably surfacing in Odo because the gene drawing him home was activated. Maybe it was making him act more like a typical Founder? This would also explain why the lives of everyone on the Defiant didn't seem to matter in comparison to getting home while he was being called.

So thanks to you guys on any reactor YouTube page I am being tighter on potential spoilers

DS9 still is sorely lacking female presenting characters in proportion to the male characters. Having the female changeling and Nechayev as any type of representation is fine by me even though it is villainous. Salome Jens also appeared in the TNG episode The Chase as a member of the race responsible for populating the galaxy.

Just saw an interview on the 7th rule with the actress who plays Nachaev, nothing on this episode but good. She is fun, and clearly a good actress (this was reviewing Descent part 1)

1:09:08 please drop in a clip from Vortex when Odo got clonked with a boulder for the edit :D "Where's Nog?" *Looks at wiki* oh! ... but I can't say :) There's plenty of time for the details of the Dominion to be laid down. It's sad that despite your reminders and talks that you still get future implications. So uh. Yeah, just a lotta shifty eyes between those of us in the audience in response to your theorising.

This has to be one of you guys' best discussions. I think you're gonna like this show.

I find the ship dynamics that have developed here interesting. Runabouts < Cardassian patrol ships (presumably due to O'Brien's abduction) < Cardassian destroyers/cruisers (whatever threatened the station in the early episodes). But the Cardassian workhorses are low-tech. Heavy frontal weapons and hulls. Maquis raiders, due to their maneuverability, are perfect against the Cardassian destroyers/cruisers. However, they have little armor/hull, so the runabouts (and possibly Cardassian patrol ships) are more than equal. The high-tech galaxy, with its strong shields and all-around phasers, is practically invincible for Maquis raiders. Cardassian ships can't withstand the tropedo firepower, so they need numerical superiority.(Yes, not all Tropedoes are the same, but we've already seen what a large Federation ship can do against them.) These Dominion ships ignore shields, which makes them good against the Federation. Additionally, they are maneuverable. Runabouts, Cardassian patrol ships, and Maquis raiders are the logical answer. However, since the runabouts did relatively little damage, Maquis raiders without tropedos are out. That leaves runabouts, patrol ships, and the new escort ship. It would be interesting to consider the personnel requirements. Runabouts can manage well with just one or two people.

I'll also say its hard not to spoil things when I love a show this much, but because I love it so much I'm doing my best to not 'talk ahead' so to speak. Just got to revel in each episode as it comes.

I forgot that Frakes directed this one! What a marvelous episode. Loved seeing your expressions multiple times throughout this one. So very truly excited to journey further into this season again.

This episode does something clever I think, by masking the fact that the A and B plots are reversed. Odo is the A plot, Sisko is the B plot! Because ultimately its Odo's story that resolves Sisko's.

I guess I thought the Defiant would have been spoiled on some cover art or something for the DVDs, my bad.

Rene Auberjonois (Oh-bear-zhen- wah). The zh is the same sound as the s sound in the word pleasure.

I am so glad (and relieved) you loved this episode, especially the last half. I think it bodes well that you appreciate how this opens up Odo's character to development.

I like to pronounce it Abu Jwah, but my mom who speaks French says I’m wrong..

I like the fact that the dominion matrix simulation did prove that the replacement security guy would be an absolute piece of shhhh.... It with backing everything including letting Jems go around beating up people.

BIG FAIL on so many of those takes, as well as the Mods that are supposed to be handling that. I thought about that reading those takes, but figured they would be taken out in time. I don’t want to have to be the guy always complaining about them. People just need to think more about their posts. 🤦‍♂️

I was on the edge of my seat the whole time with a sly grin, wondering if either of you would guess the twist or, as you were, get WORKED! Lol. As far as Odo's people being the Founders, Alex you actually guessed this in passing in the part 1 discussion, but I think it was very quick, off the cuff, neither of you really processed that guess with any real weight. But give yourself some credit there! Indeed my favorite scene is by far the ending, where Kira presses, tenderly, Odo's combadge, not her own. She truly cares for him, and he cares for his friends there on the Defiant.

YUS DS9 BEGINS

So I think the Skreans from sanctuary were sent by the Dominion since the Dominion’freed’ them to start invading

Odo spends his whole life hoping to meet his family. Odo finally meets his family and finds out they believe in the extermination of all other life forms in the galaxy. 2025 Thanksgiving dinner relatability

Too be fair, we kept quiet about the Defiant even existing for 2 seasons, that Odo finds his people this soon (I even posted a take back in Vortex implying it'd be a long on-going plot) and that they were the Dominion - so you know, the Defiant being a re-occurring element is just one of those kittens that slipped out without us noticing from the rest of the cats we're trying to herd and keep under wraps. The Defiant also happens to be slapped onto the first disc of some releases of the S3 DVD, and has replaced the Runabout in the opening animation of the DVD menu. So like a fart in the tub, it slipped out and bubbled to the surface. Oops. But I don't think we totally $#!+ the bed either. 😅

Meaney and Frakes meet on set like Dutch and Dillon meeting in Predator-

I'm glad you both enjoyed this two part beginning of Season 3. I was hopeful you would enjoy it, but after the end of Season 2 I had some doubts. Definitely doesn't hurt to add Ron Moore and Jonathan Frakes to the mix! But credit goes to Ira Steven Behr as well. He may have his bumpy moments, but episodes like Search Part 2 are a demonstration of some of his better work as well.

Re: the implication of the Defiant regarding the money spent: TNG went nuts showing the Enterprise separating, built a battle bridge, and a battle ready room etc. and used the set again twice in 7 years. I really think people need to limit themselves to solely discussing the episode at hand (what worked, what didn’t, did Mark Twain make you want to die) rather than go nuts about what is going to happen... Sisko told the prophets humans value their ignorance of what is to come , otherwise the game wouldn’t be worth watching at all

Lets be careful about hinting any of the future, it will not or it will comments and the like can be spoilers, the guys don’t need assurances or warnings or tip offs, they need to focus on DS9

Alex forgot in the previous video he did actually say "what if Odo's people are the Fouders?" and Josh said "That would be crazy!"

Imagine Admiral Nechayev reading Sisko's report on everything that happened, and knowing he genuinely thought that was the real Nechayev, seeing that he willingly disobeyed her orders and blew up the wormhole. Like obviously it was a whole Dominion setup but I would still be a little pissed at him

After all the consternation about “the plot,” love how wildly different the reactions were to the half of this episode that is nothing but plot delivered at 200 miles an hour. Josh: “I am intrigued by this plot. Let’s see what they do with it.” Alex: “I fucking hate this plot! Where’s Ron?!? Damn your blue beard, Ira!”

1:35:35 "Intergalactic" warlords, huh? Tell me, "THE LORE!!!", which galaxies other than our own do you suppose the Founders are warlords in? If they were intergalactic, it would be very strange that they'd need a wormhole before learning about people just on the other side of the same galaxy.

Based on your reactions it looks like the Dominion ragebait was successful

An interesting note I never saw before. The last shot had Kira embracing Odo, taking his hand, much as the Female Changeling did.. This might be in answer to the Female Changelng giving him a taste of the Great Link. Kira wanted Odo to know he already was a part of a link, not with the Changelings, but the "solids."

I think you'll find that DS9 writing is of such good quality that you'll never get a badmiral as ridiculously written as "Dominon written Nechayev".

Re: The Defiant. It survived two Jem'Hadar ships, took one out, and only lost once reinforcements arrived. It performed better in combat than a Galaxy Class in a similar situation.

The audience deserves abuse for those inconsiderate takes.

Honestly, it had been a while since I had watched these episodes and I'd forgetten that the Defiant took the beating that it did.

Glad to see I was right and Alex and Josh's distrust of starfleet let them totally buy the whole simulation thing.

Good job guys! Your spoilers have awoken their inner contrarian. I look forward to them picking a part all the cherished things you loved so much you couldn't keep to yourself.

Gotta be honest, when the Defiant showed up, I never questioned if the ship will stay or not. It could be because of the magazines talking about it

If you go back and watch the introduction of the Defiant it is clear that this is a new “character” in the show. It’s not just a ship of the week. I know the boys have mentioned before they don’t get caught up in the ship stuff but with the light up of the name as she leaves DS9 and a discussion about her backstory in the ward room I think it likely she will show up again.

Hope you guys aren’t feeling Patreon takes fatigue at this point after watching your reactions to some takes even from long term “takers” I know I’ve been in the “I fucked up club” in the past for you over a prop. I hope you stick with the takes in the future but I think on certain peak episodes like this “the defiant reveal” hopefully the moderators can be even stricter about what gets through to you guys based on what you’ve said about alluding to future appearances in wording etc (I believe even my take on this episode may have even alluded to a possible future now I think about it, depending on interpretation) I’ll personally endeavour to be more careful with my wording, but a lot of people need to hold their enthusiasm especially as theirs a hell of a lot more takes coming in now that you’ve grown even more as we get into DS9 season 3 onwards. 🖖🏻 LLAP to the community

Josh: "Maybe they [the Changelings] are the Founders" (near the end of your discussion of Part 1). Josh, you were technically both wrong and right.

I know we don't see how Odo (carrying an unconscious Kira) manages to reach a shuttle and escape the Defiant in Part 1, I had a much bigger problem with Sisko and Bashir doing the same. As rapid as the editing was for the fight on the Defiant's bridge, it was clear they had already lost that fight. So it just didn't add up that they would escape. I wonder if this was the show denying any accusations of cheating the viewers. They indicated to us as early as possible that something was off.

I also wish to advise: if you build a warship have a reasonable sick bay

Here's what we know about the Dominion so far. The Founders are the Changlings; the Jem'Hadar are the OP deadly army; various other species are members and do various roles for the Dominion; and the Dominion has a heirarchy. For instance, the Karuma from part 1 and Rules of Aquisition, play a very minor part in the Dominion, but they seem to be the gateway for handling trade negotiations with them. The Karuma also report to the Vorta, name dropped in part 1. They either do what the Vorta tell them to do, or the Vorta send in the Jem'Hadar. We can also deduce that Borath's race is pretty high up in the Dominion. Eris was going to be a plant, and Borath was running the simulation on the Founder's home world with Jem'Hadar guards. We've also seen that even though the Dominion is capable of using strong deadly force, they are far more about gathering intelligence. The whole point of the Jem'Hadar episode wasn't for the Dominion to come in fighting to the Alpha Quadrant, but to set up an undercover plant to gather information on the Aplha Quadrant. The Jem'Hadar already had a ton of information on us when we met them. And their whole plan in this two-parter wasn't to destroy the Defiant, but to capture the crew of the Defiant and put them in a simulation. And again, NOT so they could plan a military invasion of the Alpha Quadrant, but to see how the Federation would react if they tried to gain a diplomatic foothold in the Alpha Quadrant. They really do operate more as an anti-federation in that sense. And just like the Federation, the main way they operate isn't through force. As strong as the Dominion are, the main threat from them is actually their planning and intelligence. We saw the OP brute force of the Dominion with the Jem'Hadar. But we see a whole other side to the Dominion knowing that the Changlings are the Founders. The demenor of the Founders is entirely different than the Jem'Hadar. We get a much more patient, intelligent, controlled, and hands off feel from them, and THAT is the real threat. That is what is running everything behind the scenes. With the Jem'Hadar, we see the brawn of the Dominion; but with the Changelings, we see the brain. As the female Changling said, when it is time to make their move in the Alpha Quadrant, they are "willing to wait until the time is right." As the show goes on, you'll continue to see just how different the Dominion operates from any other race we've seen.

We were told in the Jem Hadar that the Dominion had been gaining information about the Alpha quadrant but most of the simulation came from the minds of those plugged in to examine their characters. That is why Quark and Jake were off and why someone new to us was featured a little. So many are talking about netflix axing their Trek, here in the States I never got Trek on netflix. Since 2017 I do mainly watch Trek on amazon, recently I even bought season 2 and 3 of DS9 to stream. My biggest issue with streaming though there are many, is if I want to watch Schisms randomly on halloween it will show me being in season 6 of TNG. I am considering going back to my DVDs since I do have all Voyager, all DS9 and all TNG on DVD and have acess to Enterprise on DVD too. The main issue with that is obviously that you have to switch to dvd and switch disks, also if your dvd player goes dead as mine often do. But with DS9 and Voyager it can be worth just watching on DVD. Have not actually noticed an improvement between streaming and dvd with TNG or the original series either. Just some thoughts. Though everyone who has lost access to star trek through netflix cancel your subscription for at least a few weeks and make it clear why, I prefer amazon to Netflix any way.

I must confess I was one of the patrons who assumed J&A would jump to the conclusion the Defiant was sticking around after this episode. In my defense, the moderators could have deleted all of them, but they may have thought the same thing. In the grand scheme, it's not a huge spoiler. Based on the comments I was worried it was something bigger that was spoiled.

Love the development of the Odo-Kira friendship in this episode. They have a very deep history and I'm glad the writers chose her to include in Odo's discovery of his origin.

Are you all beginning to like Avery Brooks acting? He almost went off the rails in the scene with Admiral Nechayev. Do you like his leadership style compared to Kirk and Picard?

So I hadn't seen this episode in years, and from memory I felt like part 2 was a step down from part 1. Unlike some, I actually do enjoy the fake out and suspected you would as well. What I didn't like was most of the scenes on the Changeling planet leading up to the reveal. I remembered them being too slow and boring and just killing the pacing of the DS9/simulation bits. Watching again, they're brief enough that most aren't too intrusive, so it was better than I remember. What there's plenty of "WTF is going on here" to tip you off that something is wrong, they keep it just plausible enough that you don't fully suspect it's not real. Starfleet is well within it's rights to reassign officers, starfleet admirals are well established to be incompetent shitheads, and starfleet's recent insistence to bend over backwards to avoid conflict with the technologically inferior cardassians makes the dominion treaty quite plausible. Even Eddington's explanation for why they're letting the Jem'Hadar get away with murder(literally in T'Rul's case) isn't completely unbelievable if starfleet was blinded by the promise of a military alliance with the dominion. You start imagining a season long arc where they're off the station and by the time starfleet smartens up and realizes the dominion is bad news, Bajor is an occupied territory. I think certain things give it away though. Aside from some characters seeming off, it just seems like everything is moving too fast. Like the writers would stretch out such sweeping changes over a longer set of episodes. Plus killing off a recurring character like Garak so casually and seemingly writing the main characters into a corner is enough to tip you off that something isn't right, but by that point you only get a few seconds to figure it out before the reveal. I also would say Odo choosing to stand by the people he's known and the principles he's lived by was the highlight of the episode. As others have said, definitely a turning point for the character and his outlook on things. His questions about where he came from were answered. He wanted to find out who he was, and he did, just not the way he imagined. I don't know how long Odo was gone, decades at least from the sound of it, but I feel bad for the other changelings they sent out. If Odo has already led such an isolated life, and wasn't supposed to find his way back for another THREE CENTURIES, then how messed up will the others be by the time they get back? Also was it necessary for it to be infants? Would Changelings who had experienced the link find it too difficult to stay away? Regardless, pretty shitty parenting.

I'm glad you guys loved this two-parter! Sorry about the spoilers in the Patron takes, I honestly stopped leaving takes myself because I get so mad when I go in there and see so many... This is going to be tricky with a show like DS9

I don't wanna think about all the STIs floating around in that link

I like how throughout the episode, we never see the outside of DS9. We never see the runabout launch. Every shot is interior only. Because it ain't real! :)

Please watch Babylon 5 After DS9 because its an example of one primary writer from start to finish

Why did they keep the Defiant? Well, it would make some sense they would want to analyze the techology. I'm not sure the plan was to kill the captured officers, they were doing a simulation to see how they would respond to a "peaceful" takeover of their side of the galazy. Not sure what the plan was had Odo not found them. It's possible that they would have sent them back as Odo might have been pissed if they killed hi friends?

it wasnt the defiant that was at 20 percent life support, that was the shuttle Sisko and Bashir escaped in. The ship got beat badly but it took out a Jem'hadar fighter and it survived despite the pounding (did the Dominion repait it enough for them to fo home? Thats the only unclear part)

dominion are new to the alpha quadrant and even they know Starfleet admirals suck

In the simulation, it was said there were ships looking for the others which would include Kira and Odo but there was too much going on for them to pay too much attention to that

The runabouts do have phasers, remember in the Maquis when they fought their modified ships with runabouts andthe runabouts firing in "The Jem'Hadar"

Another great all-timer TA react!

I just love Garak. He elevates every scene he is in. DEFINITELY my very favorite character of this series!

As a general rule I don’t like fake out endings and this tended to colour my perception of this one but I think I really enjoy it now. But it’s Odo’s story that I love the most.

My bad on being one of the spoilers of the Defiant I guess. The episode previous Odo mentioned it was "adrift in space" and the end of the episode the said the Defiant is in orbit and they beamed back up to it. I guess myself and clearly some of the other commenters were on a different wavelength. Muh bad. Love you guys <3

In the search part 1 the contact of Quark’s said that they deal with the Vorta as middle men for the founders and that if you don’t do what the Vorta say they send in the Jem Hadar. The scene is at 28:00.

Well, Odo Searched for the Founders, and he Found them Searching for Odo. Kind of.

The previous episode started with a recap which ended with the words "and now, the continuation..." This essentially makes "The Search" parts 1 and 2 actually the final two installments of a 3-part story that started with "The Jem'Hedar". Does knowing this change how you feel about that episode? Maybe you didn't love it because it was only the setup for a larger 3-part story.

No spoilers to note, as Alex does toward the end of the takes discussion, this allows Odo to stop only looking backward to his origins and start looking forward to who he chooses to be. ❤️

necheyev jumpscare

Auberjonois = Oh bear j Oh Noah

I was fun to listen to your reactions of part I knowing what was coming. I guess you were surprised.

I can only imagine how this episode landed for you, especially with fans flagging it as “important.” On the surface, it looks like the big shakeup: characters shuffled around, alliances forming, people getting killed off, assets moved off the station. It’s easy to read this as the show hitting the reset button. One reaction you had that I hadn’t even considered was how the introduction of Michael Eddington, paired with Part 1 ending on Odo finding his people, creates a very plausible exit ramp for Odo as a character. You could absolutely imagine Odo leaving and being replaced by a new security chief or someone like him. That’s a smart misdirect. As for Eddington himself, I know you didn’t like him here, which is understandable—but obviously this isn’t really him. For what it’s worth, I find him likable. What I really like about this episode is how much of it feels oddly flat—and I’m pretty sure that’s intentional. Jonathan Frakes knows exactly what he’s doing as a director. Big moments that should have weight—characters leaving, characters dying—are rushed through and denied the pathos they’d normally get. If these changes were truly permanent, they’d land much harder. That flatness feels like a tell. An uneasy signal that what looks like a massive status-quo shift… maybe isn’t quite what it seems.

Horror Connection: Borath's actor, Dennis Christopher, is the same guy who played adult Eddie in the 1990 Stephen King's 'IT' miniseries. A much less punchable face without all that makeup. Decent actor in 'IT' too.

Great link is a form of hive mind where they share ideas and emotions. But if you think about it it's also one big orgy.

I had forgotten how much of this episode played on our knowledge/fears of what a typical Star Trek part-two episode would be. I wonder if Ira Behr was trying to slip in some pointed commentary on that. "We're gonna go this direction to start because everyone will expect us to drop the ball this way..." I'm so glad you guys got worked and appreciated it. I did too on my first watch. I can see where some people would think the big reset-button ending was a dramatic cheat, but I love it because of the story that it's serving. The idea that the Dominion's first instinct is to do this calculated psyop where they're literally reading our characters' minds to gain an advantage? That's terrifying. It makes them a different and dangerous enemy right off the bat.

I'm sorry but.. Deanna's derp-face in the thumbnail for this video just kills me.

The sadness in Odo's voice when he says "I have lived a...solitary life" still gets me.

While I don't remember ever seeing any behind-the-scenes information regarding this, it really felt like Garak was originally written to have been real here. Makes me wonder if they decided against it later on in the process, either because it would make no sense for him to have been on board the Defiant, or because it would weaken the mystique of his character having him fall victim to the Dominion's mind probe. Honestly though, I'm glad he was there, even if it wasn't actually him. As reliant as this episode is on the ending, having Garak there to help drag us to the finish line is helpful.

There is a hint that the Admiral isn't the real admiral. She says to Sisko he could be an Admiral as well "what he always wanted". WE know that because Dax said it to him in Part 1. The real Nejeev would not know this.

Great show guys. I'm taking about your reactions not the episode.

Yes, there was the "pirateship" but you also predected that the changelings could be the bad guys, Alex! Did you forget that?

This was a good reaction! I'm genuinely amazed you weren't spoiled about the Dominion, respect to the moderators / most people keeping shut this whole time

Surprised the Patron takes didn't bring this up, but the actor who played the female changeling in this episode also played the alien in the holographic projection that gave the big speech at the end of The Chase. I've always been amused at how similar the makeup was between the two.

To be fair it took like 6 ships to beat the defiant up. At the end of season 1 we saw a galaxy class ship get blown to pieces.

They tricked you by siccing Admiral Bitchaev on you!

Yes, we have arrived at more consistently good Deep Space Nine.

This is why you have to give the whole episode a chance without checking out.

I don't think Whispers counts as an 'it was all a dream/didn't happen' episode at all. Whispers did in fact happen; we were just kept in the dark about exactly what was happening and why. They both have a twist at the end that recontextualises everything we just watched but the two episodes go about it in very different ways

The reason for not confirming Garak is dead was to fool the audience because we would probably not have bought that he was actually dead, which would have been more of a tip that something else is going on here than what we're seeing.

I wonder if there's a device that could measure the exact number of changeling in that ocean of goo? Some sort of.....Odometer?

I was nervous about this one after "The Jem'Hedar" but I am glad to see you guys loved it. We are so back!

It was very cool of the writers to tie Odo's seemingly unrelated origin story into the bigger storyline.

I'm never sure about this one. Sometimes seems a little cheap to just do the old "everything was fake" routine. But it's still done well. I think they were clever to bring back Nechayev, because we're used to her sometimes being unreasonable with our captains, so her being the face of a bad Starfleet decision makes it a little more acceptable.

So Rick Berman all throughout DS9 has forbidden writers from talking to the cast or any of the other crew so that puts the acting talent of the actors and how much they understood the character even better in perspective

Good pop, guys. I think most of us reacted the same way you did when we first watched this episode.

The Dominion chose the best possible admiral to fake.

I'm honestly surprised it never crossed your minds during the episode that you were being worked; especially when we got to Garak's death.

Love this episode. It got me good the first time I saw it. I know you guys have to steer clear of a lot of things to avoid spoilers. It is the reason I post some of the things I do. I was reading an old interview with Michael Piller and I am paraphrasing on this one. He said TNG is like Superman and DS9 is like Batman. Batman is darker and grittier. He is willing to cross lines that wouldn’t be in Superman’s nature. When I thought about this it really did make a lot of sense. Then it occurred to me, VOY is so Wonder Woman. Ugh Josh, I have the gambling gene too…

An amazing reaction guys. Your faces when the truth was revealed. I felt the same as Alex in 1994.

They got worked! One of your best DS9 reactions so far, gents. Kudos.

Ira got one over you Alex

Oh man, am I livid! So, I've been watching along with you via Netflix but Paramount have just pulled all Star Trek from there... I'm going to have to source the Boxset now to keep up and that's not cheap brand new. Hopefully I can find a second-hand copy soon! I can watch via Prime but that'll cost me £4.99 a month and I already hold a paying subscription with Prime anyway. Absolute joke! Can you tell I'm miffed?

Alex’s surprise face (lovingly dubbed by me the Kermit face) is priceless

I really hope you guys get worked. This episode plays quite differently after the first time.