Top 10 Episodes - DS9 Season 2

my personal favorite by a landslide is the final "jem'hadar" i mean its also the 2nd highest rated episode in all of ds9 after duet to this point xD

As much as I love "Whispers". The episode doesn't even crack my top 10 of DS9 Episodes.

Regarding Voyager: It wasn’t created because Paramount didn’t have faith in DS9, but rather was part of a reaction to the American government repealing the Financial Interest and Syndication Rule in 1993. That rule basically prevented the big 3 TV networks from owning their prime time programming, forcing them to buy prime time shows from 3rd party companies like Paramount or Warner Bros. Paramount was afraid NBC, ABC & CBS would start creating their own shows and crowd Paramount of their schedules. In response, Paramount created the United Paramount Network in order to make sure there would always be a market for their TV shows. They demanded that Berman create a new Star Trek show in order attract TV affiliates to their Network, especially since Warner Brothers was was also trying to recruit affiliates for their own new network.

It Wasn't a "clone crew"! The USS Iowa (BB-61), USS New Jersey (BB-62), USS Missouri (BB-63) and USS Wisconsin were all IOWA class battleships, were they clones? No, they had their own missions, crews and experiences. All of them had the same strengths and capabilities. Tell the USS New Jersey crew they were just a clone of the USS Iowa and crew, see what they'd say! It wasn't about, "if that had been the Enterprise..." It was about this new threat being fanatical enough to do what they needed to do to destroy an enemy capitol ship, to make our heroes go, what the hell are we facing here?

Once again, the final list for reference Alex Josh Audience 1 - Whispers 1 - Necessary Evil 1 - Necessary Evil 2 - Necessary Evil 2 - The Homecoming 2 - The Wire 3 - Crossover 3 - Whispers 3 - Whispers 4 - The Wire 4 - Crossover 4 - The Homecoming/trilogy 5 - The Maquis Pt. 1 5 - The Siege 5 - Crossover 6 - Tribunal 6 - Maquis(mostly pt 1) 6 - The Maquis 7 - Profit and Loss 7 - The Circle 7 - The Jem'Hadar 8 - Playing God 8 - The Wire 8 - The Siege 9 - Melora 9 - Armageddon Game 9 - Blood Oath 10 - The Circle Trilogy 10 - Melora 10 - Tribunal Honorable mentions Armageddon Game Playing God The Circle Tribunal Armageddon Game Blood Oath Melora

I think a marked improvement from S1 to S2 is the technobabble. S1 was absolutely submerged in dry technobabble. S2 still has it, but there's far less of it, the episodes don't rely on it as a crutch as often, and generally the delivery of it is a lot better. PS. Rick Berman did NOT like the idea of the show being on a station and not a ship. In general, Berman was against a lot of DS9's best ideas. He was too producer-brained and was kind of correct. Since DS9 was the black sheep of the franchise for a long time and Voyager was way more popular when they were both airing.

Well, there will be boring episodes in season 3 and there will be great episodes. There will be some, that the fans don't care but you both will praise (and the other way around) And that's the beauty of Star Trek: To explore strange new episodes, to seek out which one I like and which one other like and to expand my horizon WHY others may have other opinions. That beeing said: I love slow burn, low stake, storys that escaletes into bigger issues. Potter 5, Hobbits, the jem'hadar ;)

I know they said they weren’t going to have any Patreon full episodes till 2026 but I’m hoping for a big Christmas Day gift of Season 3’s DS9’s first two episodes dropped on Christmas day. Something to consider??

I'm glad Alex had time to reflect on his response to the S2 finale. I'm more glad I was RIGHT about his reasons! 🤪

Once again. Much that the audience can only whisper and give each other shifty looks about. Your Star Trek journey still looks strong for a long while yet. The best is yet to come.

Remember Mordock? The blue alien from S2 TNG with the weird breathing thing on his chest? He has a 'disability' that requires accommodation. Wesley asks about it, Mordock explains it, and he is treated normal for the rest of the episode. His unique atmospheric requirements aren't used to save the day, and he isn't even a hero. Mordock is how you do a disabled character. And Gerodi is how to do a disabled episode. Remember 'The Enemy'?? The Romulan and Geordi jab at one another about half a dozen different things and Geordi's defective eyes is only one part. In the end "I will be your eyes" is a perfect line, without it being the ham-fisted focus of the episode. 'Melora' is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum and is a text book mary sue. I hate it. It is awful. It is erased from my canon, and it deserves to begone from yours as well. It's ok to hate a disabled character and a disabled rights episode when it's bad.

I have to disagree with Josh in his final analysis of Kira's actions in "Necessary Evil.”  This is *the* episode that proves she is not a murderer and shows how brutally unclean real resistance work can be. In the occupation timeline, Kira isn’t a free civilian who happens to kill someone during a bad day at the office. She’s a war-time resistance fighter in the Bajoran Underground, on an active covert mission on Terok Nor. Her job in that moment is sabotage. She’s in enemy territory, behind enemy lines, under an occupying power that uses torture and the horror of mass retaliation as standard policy.  In the context of this episode, Vaatrik is a bad dude. He's aligned with the machinery that’s imprisoning, and killing Bajorans.  When he walks in on her during her covert mission in his chemist's shop (off screen), the operation now becomes a threat to expose her. Letting him live doesn’t just endanger Kira being captured by Gul Dukat and his minions. It endangers her entire cell, her contacts and anyone the Cardassians could drag in, torture, and break for information. This is where I think a James Bond comparison fits. Bond’s “license to kill” is really a license to make lethal decisions in the field, and as M says in "Spectre", it also means knowing when not to kill. Kira operates under the same brutal logic during the occupation: she’s effectively got a resistance “license to kill or be killed.” As we've seen in the first two seasons of DS9, Kira shows that same "when not to kill" restraint: she’s not a bloodthirsty executioner. She spares people, forgives people, and carries guilt. In “Necessary Evil,” she kills because, in that moment, there can be no witness. It’s an ugly choice made by a secret operative under genocidal occupation, not a cold-blooded peacetime murder.

I think Voyager gets a bad rap for two reasons: a) DS9 was so good when Voyager was in its earliest seasons one can hardly avoid the comparison between the two, b) Voyager falls short of its possibilities given its premise, characters and situation- it was an "OK show" when it COULD have been just as good as DS9 and the writers just blew it Its like watching a minor league baseball player with 5 skills come up to the MLB and bat .250 and make fielding errors- its the wasted potential that hurts

Thank you both for explaining so well (in your updated Why We Love Star Trek video) what your preferences are for ST episodes. I now understand why Alex was less than satisfied with the S2 finale. I misunderstood his initial reaction. While I appreciate what you are hoping for in episodes, DS9 also has to pay the bills. That means sometimes doing things that are intended to generate buzz and retain/attract viewers.

rewatching this with you guys, There's definitely less Nog and Jake than I remembered. But I do like that they're always used well. To compare with TNG; Wesley was so poorly served as a character.

Interesting choices. I’m in total agreement with some and complete disagreement with some others. I find it interesting that you heap so much praise on Terry Farrell but then can’t bring yourselves to include Blood Oath. And I know you loved it but the inclusion of Melora is still a head-scratcher! And since you went on a bit of a TNG tangent I’ll also never understand your love of Gates McFadden’s acting ability. I always thought she was the weakest member of the cast.

The way Crossover threaded the needle between respecting what came before and having the guts to take it in a different direction feels like a good metaphor for everything DS9 is trying to do as a series. When that episode came out, we didn't have the Marvelverse and 5000 different iterations of the same universe, so I just assumed the universe we were seeing was the same one we saw in TOS. I remember feeling gratified and respected that they covered what we knew about Kirk and Spock and how Spock's actions got us here.

I think they intentionally placed Chekhov there with the Khan reveal because its the best character for that scene and they knew that he wasnt in that season but thought id be an interesting addition to that lore to expand that he was an Ensign in Season 1. It is a type of retcon that improves the original show for me.

No with DS9 unless you watched every episode 8 times you have to watch the first two seasons, because even before they ‘figured it out’ there are a billion seeds ESPECIALLY in season 2, you have to watch it all then you see when they did really fail and really succeed. Unlike TNG, which you guys were excited to watch but didn’t love really till season 4 and then barely in season 5. And Voyager is good TNG was a buffet which Voyager is, DS9 is a story. I am also completely annoyed with the lack of Jake and Nog, I am glad you like them. While is season two Nog the character was equivalent to 17 the actor was 8 years older, Jake was created to give Sisko a family the writers may have been annoyed that he grew up. Sadly after years of watching writers from the 80’s and 90’s still refuse to read my mind now and by time mind reading do what I want. I do wish Voyager hadn’t started for another season

Regarding the data discussion, he did age if u go back to season one and side by side with season 7 and regarding his cat changing sex my mind canon is that he accidentally kills the cat and and he just names the next one spot… it’s dark but I find it funny

Whenever I rewatch Voyager I always skip to Season 8, because that's when it really takes off...

Josh- so you would love to see Ronald Moore involved with DS9.... If he were what do you think he would do with the characters?

I don't know, from what you were saying, you guys might want to get your "things we don't want to see in Trek" bingo card ready for Voyager. Then again, there's a lot of good stuff in Voyager too.

The reason Crossover was followed up on DS9 1) Post Naked Now through Sarek the TNG writers had to get special permission to reference TOS directly because they were trying to establish TNG as it's own thing. 2) Berman and Braga reportedly aren't big TOS fans

Ohh God everyone shut up about Babylon 5

I always assumed the "joke" for Mirror Sisko is that Smile (pronounced oddly) is just Miles with the S moved to the front.

The Circle was a real accomplishment for the show I feel. It was baby steps, dipping a toe in serialized storytelling that would come into fashion just a short time later with shows like LOST and The Wire There had been multi part episodes of series before, but this was something new for Trek.

The idea for this star trek show to be on a station near a worm hole came from another show called Babylon 5. the producers of star trek took offence to another sci fi show being successful... and they created DS9 (a big budget star trek brand version of Babylon 5) to put babylon 5 out of business. they failed because Babylon 5 turned out to be really good in its own right.

They envisioned Jadzia as Yoda mixed with Audrey Hepburn, and that was just not in Terry Farrell's wheelhouse. And writers like Robert Hewitt Wolfe have said they flat out didn’t enjoy writing that version of the character. The irreverent, life-of-the-party Dax suits Farrell a lot more and complements the other characters better, IMO.

I think you’ll find Voyager to be more meaty than “diet” trek. But be open minded to some similar ideas with a new twist or opinion.

Ronald D. Moore has said the TNG writers did start to get a little jealous because DS9 was doing "cooler things". On the other hand, VOY was an appealing prospect to many of the TNG staff. It wasn't a syndicated show like TNG and DS9. It was going to be the flagship show on a new network (UPN). Guess you will find out soon if Ron joined either show. I will make my prediction now. You guys will end up liking Voyager. It is hit and miss the first 2 seasons like all Berman Era shows. TOS got so good so fast, they made it look easy.

Okay, disclaimer... I love DS9. I really do. I'm glad it exists. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. DS9 as a concept was still stolen from Babylon 5 creator JMS. But, thankfully, the show is ALMOST as good as Babylon 5. Especially once it finds its legs. Took B5 eight episodes, took DS9 two seasons, but... we still get five really good seasons, one decent season and one bad season. From B5 we get four good seasons (first seven of Season one, and first 15 of Season 5 are kinda... meh.) and that's all. And those seasons are 22 episodes, not 26 episodes. The finale of Babylon 5 is... unbelievably good. Season 3 of Babylon 5 is the finest season of television ever. Season 4 is nearly as good. Season 2 is almost as good as Season 4. But later seasons of DS9 also make the top 10 list. Because the show is REALLY F***ING GOOD. If you're gonna steal someone's idea, at least do a good job of executing it. And they do accomplish that much. Oh, also, DS9 has Gul Dukat. There's no real comparable character on Babylon 5. So that's something that DS9 actually did better than B5.

A word of advice on Voyager: Skip the first two seasons. Season 3 is where the show REALLY starts.

I can’t wait until Januarrrrryyyy

Harv Bennett did watch the entire TOS run before making Wrath of Khan. Walter Koenig knew they had made an error, but it was such a good part that wasn’t going to speak up and correct them.

Every time I rewatch DS9 I don't SKIP the first two seasons, but I really only hit the highlights of Season 1 (not that many highlights) and it depends on my mood with Season 2, but I watch less than half of them. There are still some skips in Season 3-7, but far fewer than in Season 1 and 2. (Really, in Season 1 I watch the pilot, "Duet" and "In The Hands of the Prophets." There are some good episodes that I skip in both Seasons 1 and 2, but not that many. The first season, the show was really trying to be "The Next Generation 2.0." Nothing wrong with trying that, but they fail catastrophically. In Season 2 they start to get away from that a little bit, but many of the bad episodes come when they forget about it. There's more than a few episodes that I suspect were written for TNG and then hastily repurposed to DS9. Without TNG in the way, the show becomes its own thing in Season 3. Yes, TNG is great. I think DS9 is better. You may disagree. But we can all agree Voyager is not as good as either. (No spoilers, just... general feeling, and I recently rewatched Voyager... the edited highlights.)

To Alex, I'm convinced with the advent of quantum computing and AGI, we're on the precipice of biological immortality. Not in a magical sense. Not in the way that aging is halted. That avenue is almost impossible because there are so many mechanisms in the body that relate to each other, changing one aspect can cause unpredictable wonkiness in 10 others. But developing treatments for the byproducts of our body's processes that cause aging? There are 8 known aging pathways: Glycation Oxidation Inflammation Epigenetics Senescence Mitochondria Telomeres Mutation (can lead to cancer). That's in the order of easiest to fix (again only talking about repairing the damage or buildup so treatments would persist but if they do, you effectively wouldn't age). And the true key, as we begin to develop treatments for one, or two, etc... it extends our lifespan and overall health beyond the natural passage of time. Live a year? Expect to have over another year of extra lifespan left. This is called Lifespan escape velocity. So... biological immortality, where even Star Trek dared not delve for humanity, the fountain of youth. Right around the corner. Enjoy those TNG reruns guilt-free.

Dax is my favorite character of the main cast, but season 1 Dax is too reserved and dull. She really shows up in season 2. I think Jake and Nog are likeable because they are just normal kids and were absolutely rejections of the 80's "super kid" trend that Wesley was a part of.

Before the angry mob of people come in -- It's Jem - Hadar. Great takes!

I'm happy you reconized the acting talents of Terry and Siddig. After season one you were a litle disapointed if i remember right 🖖 Spolier, you're in for a ride 🤪

Well this was unexpected, but I’ll put it on 😅

Diet TOS or Diet TNG… haha! I like that. You should patent that.