UNCUT - Preemptive Strike (TNG S7E24) | Star Trek Journey 324
Comments (121)
When Alex said, "they brought Denise Crosby back...". Now I can't wait to watch the already posted All Good Things reaction.
Forbes well if you would have stuck to a certain sci-fi show then u probably know what’s she’s up too.
Still think Stewart in Sarek was his best performance
William Shatner is a great actor ...when he wants to be.
Based on what we learned about their characters up to this point, Ro's story involves the death of her father in addition to being in the Cardassian camps, whereas with Kira I think it was just her in the camp's. The death of a parent in that way would have shaped their personalities and characters differently, so I can see how they are 2 different people and agree Kira probably would not have betrayed Sisko/Federation.
Shatner always turned in a good performance supported by his charisma. When he started out acting was not about being super realistic, even in tv and film, and all we have to do is look at the public interest in Shatner all these years to see how even if we think Frakes, Stewart, Mulgrew, Brooks or Spiner had more talent it doesn't matter. I do believe if you ask all the people who did impressions of him from Jason Alexander to Seth McFarlane, they'll all say they love Shatner. With regard to screen presence, I'm not even sure how anyone would even go about doing an impression of anyone from any of the shows that came after. Other than Nimoy, he's the best.
1:01:55 The nice thing about the TNG finale is the ship's mission doesn't end. Things carry on forward. It's just our window into the life of the characters that comes to an end.
spoiler
I really like Laren's voice cracking as she's talking to Riker, making her final goodbyes. I wonder if she was secretly hoping for one last pork from him before she left. LOL
People pointing out Shatner's "bad acting" annoys me in the same way people point out the "laughing scene" from Final Fantasy X.
I was the one who made the comment. And I actually said I think he is better than people give him credit for. But in TOS he definitely made acting choices that weren't great. And you can't brush all those off as "his character was in some way compromised" or whatever. He made very big gestures that is common for stage acting were people are far away. That comes off as too much for TV or film acting. He also used "pauses" for emphasis too much. That's something comedic impressions have keyed in on. But they key in on it because it's something he did Some of that is the fault of the show, how his character was written, and everything else. Still...there were acting choices he made that I'll say weren't the very best and most people agree.
17:35 I think Worf/Data's threat was the place would be shut down if they find out that the Bajoran woman was there and nobody came forward.
14:50. Whelp! There you go. You predicted it, Josh!
8:50 PLOT HOLE! Picard called them "Federation citizens" but how would that be if Bajor is not a Federation planet? Edit: I guess the Bajoran colonies are on Federation planets?
While Ro is a great character, she always felt like a square peg trying to fit in a round hole in starfleet. I think this ending fits her character quite well. Yes, on the one hand it's sad since she's throwing away everything she worked for and the life she's known, but as Cal Hudson would say, she's also beginning a new one. For her it's a principled decision. She believes in the Maquis' fight, and starfleet turning a blind eye to what the Cardassians are doing was never going to sit right with her. I will give credit where it's due, Nachayev has grown a lot as a character. While she's still going to do her job, at least she can see the bullshit in the whole situation and call it out. I'm also going to agree with some other comments that Riker didn't need to call back to The Next Phase. I don't think there was some grand revelation to be had there. We all remember back in Ensign Ro how Riker treated her like dirt. I doubt it would have anything to do with them sleeping together in Conundrum. "Ensign Ro may have been a terrible starfleet officer, but she really rocked my world that one time we lost our memories". Ro was probably just expecting an unflattering eulogy from Riker. No, with everything she's done since, it's clear Ro has earned Riker's respect. Sure the words in their farewell are pretty generic, but there's a warmth and understanding there that speaks to how much his opinion of her has changed. He may not agree with her decision, but he can respect that she's doing what she thinks is right. He also knows it may well get her killed. They parted as friends, and I think that says enough. I doubt Ro directly brought up her friendship with Macias, but she no doubt gave a detailed report when she got back to the Enterprise. After her defection, I'm sure Picard could read between the lines. Given how much Picard had invested in her, and how much trust he'd placed in her, it had to sting that she essentially chose this other father figure type over him. With how much they went out of their way to draw a comparison between Macias and Ro's father, it's not surprising though. Clearly though, it wasn't an easy decision for her. Picard still did more for her than just about anyone. I'd give it an A+ overall. Decent lore building of the Cardassian/Maquis conflict, Macias makes the Maquis cause even more compelling, and Stewart and Forbes knock it out of the park in the acting department.
Now go react to the movie KALIFORNIA it came out shortly after this episode aired so you would be perfectly around release order for everything you're currently watching :)
Legos just released their first Star Trek set. It is the Enterprise D with a little shuttle including Ro Laren.
It is pretty hilarious that Riker wrote his whole report and came to give it to Picard while still disguised and dressed as a Bajoran.
now that you mention it lol
I had totally forgotten about Ro having a Lt. Cmdr. who trained her that resigned and joined the Maquis. 🤔
Hmmmn
Bad ending, don't like it
Anyone else miss the phasers that horrifically vaporize people?
Michelle Forbes had a decent career, and I think she was nominated for an Emmy for her work on "The Killing"--a show woefully underreacted to. It's a pity you didn't get to S2 of BSG because she just comes on and makes her mark in a big way, dominating episodes. She wound up becoming a regular on a few series and has done some film work. Other than Whoopi Goldberg being herself and Patrick Stewart and his marvel success, she has probably had the best career of anyone on the show, so in hindsight I think we have to say she made the right choice and didn't become like so many unlucky Trek actors, trapped in Trek. I have to stand by my opinion Ro was the best character on the show.
she also did homocide after this
As someone who is pro maquis I highly approve of Ro's decision 😂
some french ancestry perhaps?
When is the Finale scheduled to post?
I believe they said Sunday for the advance tiers and Monday for the rest of us
Alex joking about Forbes not choosing the be on DS9 or Ensign Gates being a minor role, when it's totally plausible that they both just view these roles as a job, and weren't looking to make it big and kinda just wanted smaller, background-ish roles with less fame tied to it.
I can never understand those who DONT wanna make it big. I mean I get it's hard work and long hours but it's SO worth it imo. I could never turn down fame, money, etc
Rikers line about now I know what they mean by advanced tactical training 🙄🙄seriously she didn’t do anything regular officers do every day. Especially on the enterprise…even more so in Kirk’s era
I think it was a more wry line about her basically rocking up, knocking the door, saying "shhh," then ripping off a bunch of supplies without giving a reason.
An easy S for me. I blame the whole not knowing what Riker wanted to tell her on The Next Phase. I don't count it against this episode.
definitely one of the best of the season
Alex and Josh: Soo... which Character will get a Goodbye in this Season? Episode 24: "Guess that's a Bingo!"
Boston Legal, folks. Shatner's best work.
It really is SO good...
A final note on Michelle Forbes. In a later interview she said she immediately upon arrival felt something was off on the set. An air of sadness. The actress, until informed had no idea this was essentially the last episode of the series .
Walter White is a bad guy, pretending to be a good guy. Jessie Pinkman is a good guy pretending to be a bad guy. Ro Laren was always a Maquis pretending to be a Starfleet Officer. She just didn't realize it until this episode.
"Ro, we need to cook"
This is a solid A episode. Doesn't hit the S...because I think it needs more cooking, more fleshing out. Should have been a two-parter. Not only sending off the excellent Forbes, but further building out the DMZ and the Maquis. There just wasn't time in 40 minutes to develop this thing as it deserved.
I like Ro and Michelle Forbes, but I'm definitely glad that Deep Space Nine ended up with Kira / Nana Visitor. Although if I could peek at that alternate universe of DS9 and see what they did with Ro, that would certainly be interesting.
I agree. Kira could have easily been Temu Ro, like in the DS9 pilot, but she turned into something special. I think Forbes shines with her hard edges, and Kira shines with her humanity, so to speak. You get the sense that Ro really is just a serious, sort of hardcore person....whereas Kira is harsh because she needs to be, but is fundamentally a far warmer character. Both are damaged by their experiences, but it comes through differently. Both well drawn characters, but Kira lends herself to a better growth arc, imo.
So I'm not spoiling anything since y'all have watched the finale, but Josh's comment on shows ending and the desire to realize there are more adventures we just are not seeing makes me very excited to watch the finale next week.
After that rant about the guest actors getting into the opening credits my popcorn is ready for Monday.
I can only pray that they decided not to read them! 😬🫠
I just saw that Lego is making the TNG Enterprise with the crew and, a shuttle craft with Ensign Roe minifig!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Poor Alex having a small existential panic over finishing the show.
I've never cared for the Cardassians as a species, the Bajorans and their whole religion, the wormhole aliens as that religion's deities, and the Maquis stuff. Hated it all. I much preferred Voyager once TNG ended. Sometimes tells me you'll prefer DS9 though. Because, I mean, I can say what I want but DS9 has excellent characters and writing.
Voyager has a few problems....
Hi! Now that TNG is over, do you plan to react to series-related material such as bloopers or the Honest Trailers episode? Cheers!!!
Don’t worry about not getting the Cardassian war thing, they sprang it on us in season 4 to give Miles a strong backstory and had to refine it since. Apparently Cardassia was trying to expand their territory and used Bajoran slave labor.
They didn’t have to do a farewell Ro epsiode - she could have been one of those Trek crew members who just disappear like Janice Rand or Kevin Riley. Even though this episode seems a bit rushed I think they did a good job with Ro’s motivations based on the past history of the character.
I like this episode. I'm not necessarily advocating for a two-parter here, but it really felt like there were multiple story beats that just needed a little more time. Ro's bond with the old guy, Will's goodbye to Ro. Picard's ending scene. Ro getting picked up by the Maquis. Maybe like a 50-60 minute episode would be the perfect length
hi alex, if you do a rerun in the future of TNG, then you will notice ensign gates when she is not on the bridge.
Am I alone in thinking unrealistic expectations were placed on Ro? Could no one see this was a bad idea from the start? Guaranteed to trigger her PTSD. And then threatening her with inquiries and court martial? Harsh.
Yeah, my issue isn't so much that Ro joined the Maquis. It's how predictable the result of this mission was. Undercover missions require so much prep and training. And they put her in a situation that is so close to her own experiences. I still like the episode, but it just feels like the mission was kind of hair-brained from the beginning
Spot is the best recurring character. He/she defeated Riker in single combat. Ode to Spot is amazing poetry, and they are a good cat and a pretty cat.
Uh spot went to live on a farm upstate. That's spot 2 bro
I would love to see Alex face if Ensign Gates turned out to be an undercover Romulan spy in the finale😂😂😂
Yet another really great Ro episode. Every episode Michelle Forbes appears gets S or A from me, this is my highest A of the Season.
Fantastic charismatic actress
Sokath, his eyes uncovered
So gents, I'm curious as to your plan when you finish TNG? I know you take a break between season's, are you breaking right after TNG or will you be finishing up DS9 season 2 before you break? And how long do you expect to be off, are you going to take longer than a typical season ending break to come down off of post TNG depression? lol
We will finish ds9 season 2 and then we will be doing other Star Trek content until beginning ds9 season 3 in January
We need an Ensign Gates edit now. Alex, get on it!
poor Ensign Rager always gets forgotton about
Not a personal favorite, but a great episode. Solid A.
Alex mentions the TNG Boxset - the extra features on some of those sets spoils some things for DS9. Just in case - you might not want to dig into those!
Thanks for pointing that out to them. I do wonder when they will be able to dig deeper into the behind the scenes on TNG, without any spoilers for this era of ST.
It's bizarre that of all the episodes, this is the only one I've not seen since it first aired in the UK. I forgot how good is it. Great send-off for Ro. Great direction from Patrick Stewart too - that interrogation scene cutting between Ro and the old guy almost staring directly into the camera really immerses you. Really enjoyable. Still, all good things.... :D
Wonder if Josh got spoiled by the dvd menu and if not how he stops himself by being spoiled by it? Is thee a picture beside each episode or?
No, there’s a play all option so I just hit that.
There are so many reaction moments that remind me why I want to stick around long-term
If I could make it to the end of Ds9 id be satified but at 62 with health issues i doubt i'm gonna make it
It’s kinda like now that her friend who she liked is dead does Ro really give a shit about any of the other Maqui? Like “I’m staying for black dude, and bitch face.”
I wonder about Ro as Kira would she have left Starfleet and taken a promotion to Major? Or been like a lieutenant commander or something? About Shatners acting I think some of his best moments are Where no man has gone before and Star Trek 5. “Above all a god needs compassion.” “ I need my pain.”
To be honest I don't think it is necessary for the show to give us what Riker wanted to say to Ro. We could pretty much guess, but also I like that it was left to be interpreted by the audience. I don't need the show to give me absolutely everything. It's good that sometimes things are left open for imagination.
Personally, I like to think he wanted to tell her that despite them butting heads, he was sorry he never told her how good of an officer she was, something like that.
The two main problems with this episode: 1) that bar set was WAY too small, and 2) Ro's acceptance into the Maquis cell was a little too easy.
Dude the old guy totally knows she is starfleet he just thinks he can flip her!
Closure for Ro is better than we deserved in the 90s. For that alone I give this S tier.
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Have you watched the YouTube channel that archives his old TV show
The "Khan" scene is the most famous example of Shatner "overacting" but people forget in that scene Kirk thw character was "acting"- he was supposed to be tricking Khan into thinking he had won. The other things people usually make fun of is based on the (actual) fact that Shatner's performance was sometimes influenced by pauses early in tbhe show where he had trouble remembering the lines and Shatner put those pauses in permanently as part of kirk's cadence, then Later Shatner parodied his own performance and that is what people remember. It's like how the standard parody of Jerry Seinfeld is from the episode where Jerry is annoyed by a comic that it imitating his style (a real thing that was happening then based on the success of Seinfeld) so he does an intentionally "bad" exagerrated version of his own performance. "What's the deal with airplane food?" And the parodies are based on him parodying himself
On what he's talking about, thats why I like Star Trek Continues that DOES, resolve the TOS story line and sets up the main characters for where they'll be at the start of the movies with logical reasons for them to change. I guess I really disagree in that I like a story to have a sort of ending that isn't just "well they kept on doing the same stuff." To me., thats kind of an unsatisfying ending because it feels like the story isn't really finished, it just stopped. Sort of like a show that goes on too long in a way...for things to feel "real" and have impact, a story has to start and end and the characters have to be in a different situation then the one they have been in. Thats why as far as like trek books, I'm much less interested in ones that just take place during the show like an episode we never saw and prefer ones that, for example, show the Enterprise B under Sulu's command, or deal with stuff on the Stargazer. Life doesn't stay static for that long and it if does, it feels like it's stagnated, like you're not progressing. It's kind of like how (while I still enjoy the Simpsons and think its overstated how much it's declined) how the Poochie episode describes it. There are only so many stories you can do with the same characters in the same setup. I prefer the modern Simpsons that change up the format or have the Simpsons in a clearly modern context vs episode whatever that could have been set any time which feels stale. Or how South Park has changed what kind of show it is over time to stay fresh. I feel like you're spot on with the trek at this point needing to be a show that deals with bigger over arching stories, because there's only so much you can do with an episodic format. I do think the feelings about the character were echoed by a lot of people. But, as people have poibted out, with no disrespect to Forbes. it's a happy accident she turned down DS9 because I just can't see that show working the way it does with Ro instead of Kira. In a way I think the mistake here is Picard's in having too much confidence in Ro's loyalty. The line about her realizing even her father couldn't make al the monsters go away is chilling. This is really a story about the competition of two father figures, and as you said the Maquis guy isn't wrong when he said "In your heart you're one of us"
I love the character of Ro Laren. I love the performance of Michelle Forbes. And I love this episode. Precisely because it's NOT the "Star Trek" thing to do. It's not TNG thing to do. It's the Ro thing to do.
Two stupid germans walking into a bat: We are looking for a woman and she kind of look like her, two stupid English men walk into a bar: we are looking for a bajorn woman and she looks like her. Brent and Michael were doing that on this scene shoot and Patrick was have a hard time making the day it was a long day. It is funny listening to them tell the story.
I think at this point you should make an Ensign Gates theme shirt
I will continue to tolerate no ST6 slander
It’s an okay film. Whatcha gonna do about it? 🤣
Can you imagine if they got rid of that stupid train episode and made this a two parter?
I think the train episode paid for this one lol, all that cgi is pricey. "Hey the last two episodes are 3 million dollars!" "Well there is a train set on the backlot, some old costumes and knight armor."
I don't think you are wrong to think the federation was stronger than the Cardassians. But it's like the US vs Vietnam...you can be stronger but still take damage.
In the wounded it is implied that the federation is not in a position to go back to war post wolf 359. The borg really set them back in terms of fleet size.
Michelle Forbes showing up wasn't a surprise. There was a week of commercials leading up to it, no ad-free viewing back then
Thank God they finish strong, with this and All Good Things.
Lately Cpt. Picard is not really lucky with sending out female Bajorans on missions.
Nachayev "I need someone for a dangerous undercover assignment. Someone Bajoran" Picard "Commander Sisko, I was wondering if..." Sisko "You already lost 2, you can't have mine"
I like this one, I think there were some great scenes between Ro Laren and Picard.
For me at the end I am happy for Ro. She chose her own path in life and followed her morals instead of working for a cause she doesnt believe in just because she doesnt want to let down someone who matters to her. I think she did the right thing in the end.
Agree. It was the right thing for her to do and Maqui is a respectable profession in my estimation 😅
This a short but hilarious clip from a Star Trek convention where Michael Dorn and Brent Spiner talk about their antics filming and making Patrick's job harder. There are no spoilers, but it's a good laugh!
Sorry, forgot the link https://youtu.be/-I8RsDktIlU?si=TpO3ruAcVuvEUenx
I remember how this episode ended from waaaaaay back when it first aired. Everybody in my college dorm who watched it went "Oooooooo..." when the camera swings around and you see Picard's stone face.
Unrelated to the episode, I was trying to figure out why Josh decided to add two bright lights to the background. Then I realized it was sunlight coming in through a window. haha
Yeah we recorded in the morning and didn’t account for the sun 💀
Michelle Forbes was one of Treks best guest actors and such a memorable character, I’m glad she got a great send off. Her decision makes perfect sense for her character.
Michelle Forbes was in Escape fom LA and an episode of Lost. That's all i can remember for now.
Battlestar Galactica, one of the Hunger Games movies
One of my favorite episodes. Loved the nice send off between Riker and Ro scene, I mean they had to find someway to conclude what awkward happened to them in S5 E14 - Conundrum.
Feel real bad for Picard. And Josh both having tears in your eyes. Ro followed her heart I just cant fault her for that. What a rough life she's had. Maybe this was the path she was always destined to be on
Ro is fine, but definitely not on the same level as Kira and I couldn't imagine a version of DS9 that had Ro instead.
Kira works best as a former terrorist / religious zealot. Ro is too starfleet for DS9. Kira also seems more comfortable is command / leadership, whereas Ro is more inexperienced and not good with people.
Would like to learn more about this Lt Cmdr dude who left his instructor job at Tactical school to go be a rebel. If Starfleet has evolved past the need for money, with shiny holodecks and Risa on tap, the Maquis must have one hell of a benefits package to beat that... 💰
It's not about the money. It's about sending a message.
I'm sure someone has beat me to this comment already, but they original wanted Ro in Kira's spot on DS9. That was the whole reason they created her character to begin with. She decided she didn't want to commit to a full time role and so, welcome Nana Visitor!
I read that in Ensign Ro the race oppressing the Bajorans was originally going to be the Romulans but they remembered the Cardassians.. so Marc Alaimos neck saved the species!
I'm staying up well past my bedtime to watch this - it will be 5am by the time I'm done. I just can't help myself though.
I’m looking forward to seeing this particular reaction. Ensign Ro is my favorite add-on character from the original cast although it’s really close runner up with Juianan I give this one an S as well typically