UNCUT - Bloodlines (TNG S7E22) | Star Trek Journey 320
Comments (94)
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Josh a vasectomy is not that big of a deal. The lead up is way worse than the procedure. I am sure the 24th century version is way easier than it even is now.
Not every guy wants to never have kids
I think this is a "C" at best. It's kinda boring, nothing really happens. We find out Picard has a "son" and then he doesn't. Those are not huge jaw-droppers to me.
Josh, think V for Vasectomy...
10:44 Now we just can beam people through kilometers of solid rock...
9:20 Yes, he was. You don't remember?
5:02 How do they repeat that mistake twice? Very easily. Kind-of.
This callback to the earlier episode is just lame. *yawn*
This had the potential to be a really good story, but it just didn’t achieve that. I think this wound up being a contract filler for everyone to get to the end. C
Alexander was recast
Yeah, Jon Steur played Alexander in “Reunion” and then Brian Bonsall has played him since “New Ground”.
There was that one episode where Picard, Guinan, Ro, and Keiko were recast as children
Re: male birth control pill: they figured it out. Test subjects overwhelmingly rejected it due to minor side effects. Much more minor than female hormonal birth control. Alas,
On the plus side. Vasectomies even less invasive these days, quick and easy. Can't believe still a latent stigma floating around
The good thing they added the detail that his mother really wanted to help war orphans because it makes no sense to leave Earth that has free food, Free housing, free energy and zero crime to go to a backwater planet.
the first time alexander showed up. he was played by another kid. without sloyen, alexander was played in TNG by 2 kid actors.
Picard: Beverly, I need some parental advise Beverly: I think Worf is available. Worf: Send him Earth 2-3 years and forget
The original Bok may have not been available to reprise his role here. Also one of the reasons actors who have worn prosthetics return as other characters who wear prosthetics is because the makeup department already has their head cast so they don’t have to go through the process of doing it all over again. A money and time saving measure common in television.
would also add it is a skill to act, and act well, through large amounts of prosthetics, which is why they often get recurring actors, knowing they'll get a good performance in a few takes, rather than them having to take a few to get into the right frame of mind. Babylon 5 did it a lot too.
If Nick Sagan had written more for TNG, we would have had a much more satisfying Picard/Beverly arc. He really leans into their relationship. Love that part.
I can tell that he has a flair for that sort of thing given what I've read of his other fiction.
Well you TA guys like this one more than me. It just doesn't interest me much. D
plus Jason was a vanilla as they come
Guys, rewatch The Wounded some time. The Cardassian War is the entire premise of the episode. Remember Maxwell? Who's family was killed by the Cardassians? O'Brian dropped a rather famous line that episode, about his experiences in that war. He and Maxwell sang a cool song. Great episode. It's the introduction of the Cardassians as well as O'Brian's whole backstory. As mentioned on DS9, its also the entire reason for the existence of the Demilitarized Zone, and the Maquis. The Cardassian War is a pivotal event in this universe, and is central to what's happening.
Alex did go back and rewatch it after watching this. I will in preparation for my best of TNG list
I've never really liked this one. It is fine, but the Ferrengi plot is just too ridiculous even for Star Trek. I do like the Picard backstory stuff, and the Ferrengi acting was pretty good.
I guess part of the problem with season 7 is that the writers can't close off major plot points due to having to keep options open for the imminent movies. Instead they are calling back to minor references in season 1 (e.g. Crusher and Worf's relatives), or entire S1 stories ('The Battle').
This episode is Boring if you already know Jason is not Picard's son. Normally there are some scenes that keep my interest on a rewatch, but here? There's nothing, just endless conversations about Jason's ultimately pointless backstory.
Don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but this marks the 1/3 point of Star Trek. Congrats!
Doesn't that adjust automatically as more ST is produced though? It's like the length of an elastic band.
Saavik was played by Kirstie Allie in Wrath of Khan, and was recast with Robin Curtis in Search for Spock and Voyage Home
53:17
I haven't seen this episode in a VERY long time. I remember not caring for it that much back in the day. It hits different now for me, being unable to have kids of my own and in my early 50's.
The worst part about the recast of Bok was that the first actor played it a lot better. This new guy was just a mafia type bully. No style.
They have just created a male birth control pill
You talking about YCT-529? The vitamin A blocker? Still a ways to go on that one.... The cool part is that it's non-hormonal...which has been the problem for decades with these things...
you know what would have been good in the last Scene? Jason saying: "Good bye Jean-Luc" before he beams, because of the Problem brought up, that he dosn't know how to Adress Picard.
Baldness is inherited from your mother. Your father being bald tells you nothing.
Not necessarily. While your mother's side is the primary factor... your father's side can also influnce male pattern baldness
The didn't just make up the Cardassian war, Chief O'brien often mentioned fighting in it, and it is referenced back in Season 4, "The wounded", in fact it's almost the whole point of the episode that the rogue captain thinks they are still at war.
Yeah.... did Josh and Alex pay attention to that episode? They seemed to like it, and they love the Chief.
Yeah I thought it was ok, B- is what I was putting it at before you said it. Bok was a weird throw-back, they didn't really need to bring him back, the plot was done with him. So he's double-done now I guess. Actually I think if the plot resulted in Bok giving Picard no choice but to kill him would have been a ballsy move
This story was terrible. Unfortunately this won't be the Last time they'll do it
From here on out theres only two good episodes left
I forgot how they give Bok this super technology BS. He can not only re-sequence human DNA almost well enough to fool Dr. Crusher's test, but apparently he can.... *checks notes* teleport to/from another ship LIGHTYEARS away, even if their shields are up??
They showed teleport to technology that can go through Shields on TNG before but it gives the user turbo cancer maybe he didn't care cuz revenge is more important
I don't like this episode at all C-
So per Memory Alpha Stewart when asked what loose end he wanted tied up said Daimon Bok from season 1? lmfao. Just more evidence that Stewart and the fans are very misaligned on what fans want from Trek JFC.
All the evidence you need of that is Star Trek:P
Deleted ending scene: Picard beams onto Bok's ship and immediately phasers the other Ferengi. There's sparks flying everywhere as bits of the bridge explode and Picard is diving all over the place. A beam falls and crushes the last remaining Ferengi henchman. Bok grabs Jason and puts a knife to his throat, Picard drops the phaser and takes out the Klingon knife Worf gave him before beaming over. "Stop messing around and let the boy go, it's me you want. Put that knife in me, look me in the eye, see what's going on in there when you turn it" Bok lunges at Picard and an intense knife fight ensues for several minutes, ending with Picard sticking Bok with a mortal gut wound. "That's why you never mess with family Bok, you piece of shit!" Picard and Jason beam back to the bridge. Picard and Jason look at each other, and give a silent nod. Picard then says "get that ship off my viewscreen", the camera pans to Worf's console as he arms all torpedoes and cranks the phaser power to maximum. The view then switches to Bok, laying on the floor bleeding out, looking up at the viewscreen showing the Enterprise unload a barrage of phaser shots and about 50 torpedoes. Bok screams "Screw you PicaAAAAARR-" The screen then fills up with flames and an exterior shot shows the ship getting blown to pieces, from multiple angles. Jason says to Picard "maybe... maybe I can be your son." End credits
yes they often play it too safe on TNG, this is exactly what we need
I’m almost certain that the chair Jason sits in on the Ferengi ship appears again in four years on an episode of Babylon 5! (It was a very distinctive chair!)
it doesnt come to mind but maybe not say anything if spoilers. i'll give it some thought
They mentioned the Cardassian wars as far back as Unification. Spock disagreed with Sarek publicly about the conflict and Perrin got mad at him, so they didn’t make it up that recently. 😁
Yeah no idea where they are getting the idea that the past Cardassian War is somehow just made up. It was mentiined at the same time as the species was introduced in The Wounded
I would have been so mad if Temu Jim Carrey did turn out to be a Picard.
This wasn't the first recast. Alexander was played by a different actor in "Reunion".
C- for me. My late grandmother's daily soap operas did this plot better...and regularly. Dude: "Doc said you're my long lost son. I boinked your mom nine months before you were born." Son: "Yah? And? I don't know you. See ya. I'm going cave diving and then rob a bank." Villain: "Dude, I will kill your son as you killed mine sixteen years ago!" Doc: "Dude, I was wrong. He's not your son. His mom must have been the local ho on the base and screwed some other dude right before or right after you." Villain: "Damnit!" Like sands through the hour glass......
Alexander ("Dorf") is also a recast. The very first time we met him with K'Ehleyr, he was played by a different actor.
I never realized it until that original kid died him and Brian Bonsall look so much alike.
I’m laughing 🤣 like who would trust a man to be like “It’s ok I’m on the pill 💊 I can totes raw dog you.” I think they have developed a male pill, but I forget why it’s not on the market? It’s funny fans being like “Why he no mention brother onscreen?” Like characters just blurt out factoids and leave no wiggle room for new stories and character arcs. At the very least Bones seemed to know about David and Carol.
It might have been more effective to go after Wesley or Riker his surrogate sons. People he actually knows and already cares for. Sometimes in tv and movies they act like blood ties are enough like honestly Luke and Darth didn’t know each other from Adam. It’s be easy to kill your evil genocidal father 🤷♂️
I can't make myself care about this story. Yeah, it's fun to see upstanding moral icon Picard have to deal with his horny screwup son, and it has a surprising amount of good talks about parenting and family. But who cares? Like you said, we're almost at the end of the series. You know this plotline will never resurface. If they'd had this episode somewhere in season 4, and then brought Jason Vigo back at this point, it would have hit so much harder. By which I mean it would have hit with any amount of power whatsoever. HOWEVER, still totally worth the rewatch to finally realize, after 30+ years, who Jason reminds me of. Though going by his record, he's significantly more outrageous than Okona.
I was aiming somewhere in the D range going in, but it's not as bad as I remember. There are some genuinely good scenes between Picard/Beverly/Jason. That said, the pointlessness of the episode is hard to get around. Troi found out she'd had an older sister, Data finds his "mom", we meet Geordi's parents(well one of them), Worf's foster showed. We have all these family reunions, and Pucard hangs out with a kid who's not his kid for an episode. If Jason had actually been his son, well OK, Picard has a son out there. That's something. I wouldn't so much care about nothingburger Bok coming back. Then at the end they're all like "well, keep in touch", and you just know both are thinking "real talk I'm never gonna see this guy again". So because absolutely nothing was accomplished, I can't go higher than C- on this one.
Maybe Bok should have died he pulled his gun and his first officer killed him. What if he just menaces Picard again in 30 years. 😉 😉
Better resolution: Jason really WAS Picard's son, but Picard lied to get Jason back alive and let him live his life without feeling obligated to fill the role of his son. The DNA resequencing only gave him the disease, but didn't hide the fact Jason was Jean Luc's son. The ending plays out as written.
Cool, but sounds more like Sisko. 😆
According to the TNG Companion, it was Patrick Stewart who suggested bringing Bok back, after the producers asked him if there were any loose threads from previous seasons he wanted to tie up.
Bring back Ardra!
Finally got to watch the reaction. it was bound to happen where I strongly disagree with Alex and Josh. lol. I hated this episode. However after watching it for the first time since the original binge, I DID like the Beverly/Picard scenes more than I remember. The episode didn't BOTHER me upon rewatch but it just doesn't do anything for me. I still maintain that the Bok stuff was so forgettable originally that...why does this episode exist again? lol. I still wanna call it a D. But I will get rid of the D-
I think the stargazer and its Lore is more memorable than bok and his mind control pogoball ™️ 😂
C -. Bored now.
The actor playing Jason Vigo reminds me of Dennis Quaid when he smiles.
I gor Jim Carry vibes. I dunno why
This episode is a waste of space. Bok did not deserve a second episode. For reference; Bok is from the season 1 episode 'The Battle' although the character has been recast in this appearance which likely didn't help your recognition.
Picard: I need advice from a parent. (even though I have more experience being a parent than you)
“Me going to Starfleet medical for some reason for a season was pivotal.” Wasn’t she the head of medical? Maybe she was fired? Pulaski got that job.
You asked how Bok resequenced Jason's DNA. Ferengi CRISPR, duh.
It’s the future I’m not worried about that tech DNA tests are maybe way less absolute then.
David Marcus, TNG style??? I dunno. This episode is a mixed bag. I give it a C+.
Picard is indeed 65 here. Born in 2305 and this current year in Trek is 2370.
Tapestry I think they mistakenly make him Sir Pats actual age? They keep saying like “30 years ago” when he was 21 in the past.
Wow, ending with "now onto E22 of DS9" makes this episode looks even worse
It's understandable how you guys watch all these things once and don't look back, but it kills some of us decades-long fans a little bit inside to see you not remember simple things about ST2. :)
We were already killed a little bit by them not liking ST II and VI.
I think at the very least, they pulled a little trick here, where you think it's possible they give Picard a son in the final season with almost no episodes to go. You wouldn't believe it for a second if it was Season 2 or 3.
Ah, Saavik
Disrespect for Saavik. I kid. But it was a major role.
I am B- on this as well. But something that has happened with my rewatch with A&J, is how I see things I didn't catch the first time. I think of this as a Picard-centric episode, but like Melora over on DS9, how great Gates is as Beverly in this episode. I know the show was ending and they were prepping for the movie, so these final episodes felt a bit "get it done." but they're seeds of positioning characters for the movie and future trek after TNG.
This episodes feels so half hearted it doesn’t even bring back the original Bok. It’s definitely a “what’s the point?” Episode
This tops Interface as the worst episode of Season 7 for me. It was pointless, out of place, boring, and I never cared for the Bok plot that was strung along the series. There's very little good I can say about this episode. I would easily take the batshit Move Along Homes, and Sub Rosas over this dumpster fire any day of the week.
I never cared for this episode and the whole Bok subplot or whatever it was that I guess SOMEONE thought was a good idea that ran through the series was utter horseshit even as back as season 1. Did they really think that fans EVER cared about Bok's petty revenge? Did this "loose-end" ever need tying up? It's garbage. I could think of about 15 loose-ends that could have and should have been tied up. This was NOT one of them. I know I said that the only episode I truly hated in season 7 was Interface. But honestly that was because I actually forgot this episode even existed. For real. D- (and that's only because Picard had a decent moment or two and I only give out E's to the truly repulsive or reprehensiblely offensive. God this episode comes so close to that. No Sub Rosa so-bad-its good subjective A's here. It's just BAD and a D- is me being forgiving. It's a boring slog.) Edit: And Picard thinks he's a father. He's not. Big deal. *rolls eyes*
It was apparently Patric Stewart who suggested revisiting the Bok/Stargazer revenge plot. Allegedly he was asked by the producers if there was any story he thought needed a follow up and this is what he suggested. And you're right: If this is true, apparently he's the ONLY person who ever thought we needed to hear more about this.