UNCUT - Descent (TNG S6E26) | Star Trek Journey 277

Genuinely curious, perhaps someone can enlighten me, I might have missed something in a previous discussion. If they are worried about subtitles giving away spoilers, why do they watch with subtitles? Neither seem hard of hearing, so why have them on? Having subtitles on will always make the experience worse, unless you actually need them.

Season 7 has good episodes. But a lot of those episodes use the six years of character development as a crutch. And unfortunately that crutch isn't enough to carry a great many of them. However, there are still amazing stories left to be told, and you will find them in this next season. The only season they could have been told in.

Good premise, but this finale has always lacked a real sense of danger or suspense. As usual, I blame the music. It’s… ok. However I do like that the writers took advantage of Data and Geordi’s friendship. Also Capt. Crusher is a win.

Josh, Alex, No spoilers here. But as you guys start watching season 7 in a few weeks or a month or so keep in mind that as they were shooting season 7 episodes they also were also, at the same time, shooting the motion picture, Star Trek: Generations....that would come out just a few months after season 7 ended so keep that piece of trivia in mind! There were busy that year.

They've brought this up before but Data can actually be really terrifying

The best part of this episode is the scene with Admiral Nechayev. That scene was REAL!

Ugh I hate this episode, just as much as you two hate "Time's Arrow"

45:45 Troi's line "I think I found something" which is obviously a building is a definite something. "I think" is terrible dialogue!!

Continuity error: Data claims that he has experienced his first emotion, but Q let him experience laughter.

I have never before noticed that the title is shown pre-opening titles in this episode!

This shit is FAR WORSE than "Time's Arrow"! 😮

I'm happy you liked this one. It was exciting in the 90's. Waiting all summer to see how the crew gets out of this one brought me back to Best of Both Worlds.

I thought something was broken with Josh’s speech circuitry, he kept randomly saying the letter “W”…..had to pause the episode and google it….

Why is this only part 1? Don't you guys usually watch both parts in one video or am I just misremembering that? Either way, this one isn't always held in the highest regard but I like it a lot. I also really enjoy almost all of season 7 and am eager to revisit those episodes with you fellas.

Season 7 feels a little experimental in my opinion. It does some things that feel a little weird. Most people say it's the season where "they ran out of ideas." I always liked most of it, but I can see why it's polarizing. I even like a notorious episode in it that most fans really hate. I guess a lot of episodes in season 7 are a love it or hate it kind of thing. Also, the finale is my favorite episode of all TNG.

I remember being a kid and having Star Trek The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, the X-Men cartoon and Batman the animated series, all out at the same time. The 90s was a magical age.

Season 4, and 6 are the best. Season 7 is good.

Crazy Horse was a Lakota tribe leader who defeated U.S. military at Battle of Little Bighorn in 1876. Strip club, huh? Lol. Just wanted to tell you. "Don't you guys read books? It's Mark Twain!" 🤣

Alex & Josh have given me new appreciation for Season 6. WAS in group that saw as "It's fine." But now I agree: as a season, it's the best (so far, maybe? No spoilers...) I guess my personal favorite eps are in Seasons 3 & 5 (Offspring, Yesterday's Enterprise, Sins of Father, Inner Light, I Borg) but as a whole, 6 is more solid. And remember... it all started with Time's Arrow!

I don’t think season 7 is weak it’s gots some up’s and down’s but series finale is FANTASTIC

How did Lore gain control of the Power Rangers' Command Center? They never addressed that in the episode.

This two-parter is probably my least favorite in the series, and I don't have a good reason why. Just doesn't hit for me as a whole, despite there being some good stuff in this first part.

I have never thought to myself, "oh this is the season I love the most." When it comes to Star Trek I only ever recollect the episodes and not the season they belong to. Then as for maybe there not being hype for season 6 even though there are so many episodes in it that are really great, might have to do with the release of DS9. I know season 1 of DS9 is not profound in any way really, but you guys have no clue what is ahead for that show. So that might be a possible reason for there not being hype for a season that is objectively really good. DS9 is just a different kind of Star Trek that hits so damn well, that the excitement for that may override the expectations for the last two seasons of TNG.

Subtitles are done for basically minimum wage by transcription mills. They do recommend you choose stuff you like, but always a good chance it’s going to be someone who doesn’t know the subtleties

Patrick Stewart vs Brent Spiner? I think the greatest peaks of acting go to Patrick, but Brent has the greatest range among the cast. Both truly God tier professionals at their craft. An absolute delight to witness them perform. Data angry is the stuff of nightmare fuel.

Poor Franklin. Yellow-Shirts = Guaranteed Death. Actually he was double-cursed....having the name Franklin isn't too safe either...just ask the dude from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. :P

Hey gents -- ship / science nerd here. It's definitely not a requirement for enjoying Star Trek (and is often more of a frustration), but there are times where an appreciation for ship specifications and Trek science can help in terms of following the plot or even little moments in the script. When they traveled 65 light years in 30 seconds, you commented that the distance felt like a lot. It was!! Using the TNG warp scale, it'd take the Enterprise nearly 12 days at maximum warp to travel 65 light years ... and they can't run at maximum warp constantly. At their standard cruising speed, 65 light years would take around two months. So a journey of 65 light years in a matter of seconds was incredible. Star Trek regularly disregards its own time and space rules for plot convenience, but in this case, 65 light years in less than a minute was really, really fucking fast.

Watching this episode with you guys was the first time I enjoyed it. Thank you for bringing new life into episodes I hadn't previously appreciated!

i was 13 when this episode aired... i rememeber it really well. waiting for season 7 was brutal.

"She would've been right at home in Star Trek VI." Coincidentally, Admiral Nechayev mentioned being in command of the U.S.S. Gorkon, which is named after the Klingon Chancellor who was killed in ST6.

I'm happy you enjoyed the episode. Depending on how y'all react to TNG S7 will probably give us an idea of how you'll feel about Voyager~

Also, if no one has said it, when BOBW aired many people thought Patrick Stewart may be quitting and Picard would die. It was not inevitable the Enterprise's super weapon would fail.

Admiral Nechayev was also in Chain of Command Pt 1

There are still some great episodes to come, and some terrible stinkers

I remember posting 3 or 4 times that season 6 is the top TNG one, IMO. I don’t ever want to “rave” about a season or episode though, as that can lead to disappointment. Better for you to decide for yourselves. Also, without going through the episode list, it’s definitely easy to forget which episodes are in which season, as we didn’t always get to watch them in order originally.

I love that Stephen Hawking is the only person to have ever played themselves on Star Trek.

Season 7 also has an odd visual look. I don't know if the cast salaries were eating into the show's budget, but there is a bland competence to many of the episodes in terms of lighting. This results in (for one example) the female cast members wigs being so obvious that is appears as if they were just thrown on their heads without any real care. The show also feels 'soft' dramatically. It's an unfortunately deflating feeling overall of a show that went one season too far.

I don't know why some say that Beverly shouldn't be in command. She holds the rank of Commander (the same as Riker), she took the bridge officer's exam, and is fully qualified to command. Plus she was given the order to retreat at the first sign of trouble, go back through the trans warp conduit and get reinforcements.

This S6 cliff-hanger indicated that the show had peaked and it was a preview of the general writing standard for S7. Some people consider that S7 is where they ran out of ideas for scripts. There are several variations of two basic story concepts. It's not the focus of the scripts that is the problem. It's the quality of the ideas and writing.

I had Season 6 taped on VHS in the 90s and I rewatched nearly all episods many many times, except for this one. Once you know the story, it gets really boring. Years later I still don't get invested in the story. And for the first time during a rewatch with your reaction, I had my phone multiple times in my hand... I can't remember if I liked or disliked it when it first aired, but after having read the superb "Star Trek Destiny" there will never be an interesting borg story for me. So for the both of you: don't read Star Trek novels before you finished the tv-brodacast shows ;)

I don’t think S7 is bad per se and you may like it more than the OG fans. My take is not whether it’s good but if it’s a proper send off. I never saw the movies and I have not seen the new shows, S7 is where I last saw these characters, so that sets the bar.

It's all downhill from here boy, well not really but while there's some good eps in S7, it was definitely IMO showing signs of being a tired show and I've felt it was the right time to end it

I've always thought this finale was underrated, so glad you guys dug it. As for the subtitles spoiling off screen character reveals: hard of hearing subtitles with identifiers have some rather strict rules, though an aware quality control viewer could recommend a non-spoilery one in this situation such as "[MAN]", but then you would have people wondering why it says that instead of "[DATA]". And of course they can't use "[DATA]" because that's inaccurate.

Since season 4 there is a tendency for number 47 to appear in the episodes more than any other random number. One of the writers was in the club called The 47 Society, which claim that the number 47 occurs with greater frequency in nature than other numbers. So he started to add 47 to scripts as an inside joke and the other writers continued on with it (and not just in TNG). This episode has one of the more subtle references to 47 at the beginning of the episode when Stephen Hawking beats Einstein with 4 sevens. In regards to Hawking being the guest star on the show, when taken on the tour of the set, he said "I'm working on it" pointing to the warp core. Also Brent Spiner said that appearing together on screen with Hawking was perhaps his favorite moment of his entire experience of doing Star Trek.

To answer the question you only halfway asked yes the impulse engines are what they use at sublight speeds. It is the big red light on the neck below the saucer. The saucer also has its own impulse engines sort of near there. so it isn't just sitting there after saucer separation. If you notice the blue squares near there those are the lights from the arboretum windows

Over the years I saw that full impulse in some resources is half the speed of light, but more often is 1/4 the speed of light. The limit is due to relativistic effect. Also when sometimes they say impulse is down we're on thrusters only, that is equivalent to an average rocket propulsion.

Looking back, Season 6 is the best season. I totally agree. Can't wait for the season recap. In my opinion though, Season 7 has the best episode of the series, but also the worst episode of the entire series that is not a clip-show. Maybe the Boys will like it but, I seriously, seriously doubt it. I can't say more than that.

Personally I am appalled that this season wasn’t more hyped by this audience. Season 6 is neck and neck with season 4 and a couple of seasons of deep space nine for best season of Star Trek.

Wow, I never realized so many people did not like season 7 and so many people are giving it so much hate. I always really enjoyed most of season 7 and I thought there are some really good episodes still coming, is it better then season 6 - no, but it is still good with some great episodes but I don't want to say more than that right now but I am still really excited about quite a few more episodes in TNG

In the intro: Brent Spinet as Lt, Commander Data and Lore Alex and Josh: “GODDAMMIT!!”

Perhaps you should turn off subtitles. Watch the show, don't read the show.

Season 6 is much better than I remembered, and my guess is that I had misremembered various episodes belonging to seasons 4 or 5 that are actually here in 6, and maybe also because while there are tons of good episodes, perhaps only a few would be my absolute favorites of the series.

Its great you liked this episode I saw these as a kid, its great

Admiral Nechayev was also in “Chain of Command Pt. 1”. She was the admiral who relieved Picard of command of the Enterprise at the beginning of the episode.

Admiral Bitchayev was right!!!

Season 7 certainly isn't bad or anything but yeah, TNG peaks with season 6 IMO.

Brent Star Trek = Spiner GOAT ?

Season 6 is my favorite of TNG, then 5, then 4, though they are tied, then three and two

Lore's felt armor suit seals this as the best season so far.

I do think S6 was slept on for a long time by a lot of people, including myself. But back in 2017/18 when I last rewatched TNG, I realized it was the most consistently high quality season. A lot of my favourite episodes are still in other seasons, but overall, S6 is very impressive. I'd even go so far as to say season 6 is the best season of Trek ever produced. Season 6 of DS9 that is, but TNG s6 isn't too far off. I don't want to comment too much on this particular episode till we get to part 2, but it is a pretty competent finale. Lots of cool scenes, great music, unexpected changes with the borg, and Data turning kinda psycho pretty quick. All that is good. I do have to agree with the criticism of leaving a skeleton crew in charge was pretty dumb. Even if it didn't make her look great in the role, Troi being in command in Disaster at least made sense in those circumstances. Uhura taking command in Lorelei Signal made sense. This scenario just doesn't. I mean sure, they used the shuttles, good, and if you need to do a massive ground level search, yeah you're gonna need a lot of boots on the ground. But you start from the bottom of the command structure and work up, not the other way around. Crusher or some random astrophysics ensign or engineering lieutenant can walk and operate a tricorder just as well as Picard or Riker or Worf, but they can't command a ship as well. You could perhaps justify Riker or Troi going down since they manage crew assignments and know the people on board better than anyone. Worf would probably go down to coordinate the search, but not all 3. Geordi being Data's friend and the most familiar with his systems makes some sense. Picard had no business going. He should have stayed in command, with Riker at helm or tactical, and bring Barclay back for ops or tactical. You need experienced people on the ship because if it gets destroyed, there will be no rescue. They could instead have had the borg ship ambush them over the planet, take out their shields and start transporting the crew to the surface so they can take the ship without losses. By the time the remaining crew manages to block the borg transporters most of the crew has been beamed off the ship and Crusher is left with a skeleton crew and has to retreat to plan a rescue. Same result, makes way more sense. At any rate, see you in S7

The strange looking building exterior on the planet is the Brandeis-Bardin Institute in Simi Valley, Calif (just north of LA) and has been used in a lot of movies and shows, INCLUDING Star Trek 6 - your favorite Trek movie lol

Welp paid another 5 dollars for early access. Yeah I'm surprised by how many people didn't like this episode.

What the heck are you guys doing watching this with subtitles on anyway?!

Regarding the shuttle name: "Farouk El-Baz is an Egyptian American space scientist and geologist, who worked with NASA in the scientific exploration of the Moon and the planning of the Apollo program." It's really neat when the show writes in real-world notable names from science as heroes of the future. A progressive, science-forward society will look back to these names and give them special places.

The symbol you saw in the big meeting hall is the Borg symbol. It’s very hard to see but it appears in both of the Borg episodes on board their ship. It’s just on a big flag here.

""Tapestry" is the end of his arc." Will be interesting to revisit this, especially if they eventually get to "Picard"

TNG is my favorite although I LOVE most others Start trek shows. I honestly forgot how AMAZING Season 6 was!! I used to put it behind season 3,4,5. Rewatching all the episodes with you two, I LOVE SEASON 61

wait, the message of Darmok wasnt that they should have blown each other up. Picard and the captain were able to come to an undertanding. What?

On the other hand, how many times has Data saved the ship, and literally the entire federation in Best od Both Worlds?

I''l say again season 7 isnt weak.. It's what got me into Star Trek It could be the comparison to season 6, or just fatigue after six seasons, but I really don't get what people are talking about. Aside from one episode that is bad in a "The Game" amusably bad way, it's pretty solid. I think there is more "twilight trek" which if people don't like is fine. Also DS9 is ascending and people were excited for Voyager which was super hyped. But I really don't get the detractors. In fact, looking back at season 5, which had highlights but a strecth of mediocre episodes, I'd say season 7 is more consistent and better over all then season 5.

Kik had crews out looking for the missing crew members in Galileo 7 and even (making him look bad) proceeding at impulse delaying the plauge relief supplies to give them more time to find the Galileo crew, something Picard would never do

I think it's realistic- it's not just looking for Data, it's clear Picard not only recognized the threat but is troubled by his decision in I Borg and wondering if it will cone around to bite him and the Federation in the ass. The threat if a Borg Collective that is interested in destruction of the Federation is significant enough that Picard would realize The Enterprise is expendable vs figuring out and possibly preventing what is going on, and finding Data and whats up with this planet may be the key to that.

There was a little bit of a clue in the sense that the Borg ship could have destroyed the Enterprise but didn't and instead sent Borg aboard and dissapeared. Lore's plan was obviously to get Data and presumably any Borg that remained alive had the same instructions. Though what if they had killed all the Borg? I guess the Borg would have tried again.

Just to remind you guys, there were rumors spread before the Best of Both Worlds that Picard wasn't coming back which made it much more of a cliffhanger.

Ha, I was wondering how the hell you guys knew that yellow-shirt was named Franklin before they said it, until you mentioned that it was in the subtitles.

Yep, as a Star Trek-obsessed kid, this was a LONG summer waiting for part 2.

Ok rewatching I forgot how much I love the stuff with Necheyev chewing Picard out over Hugh, snd the scenes with Riker after and the scene with Troi and Data is so good. As an episode on its own id rate this as A tier just for how much fun I have

There is a story that says they gave Stephen Hawking a tour of the sets after he filmed his part. In main engineering when they brought him next to the warp core. He pointed at it and said I'm working on that. I found the colors saturation on the planet surface to be interesting. The sun having an overly yellow tinge to it. I rember seeing something similar to on the original Batllestar Galactica. That one was a bit over done as I remeber.

This is a great part 1, a great season finale, and a great episode. Don’t understand the hate. LORE!!

DARTH VADER IS LUKE’S FATHER?!?!?!

First script draft, the “one” was Samuel Clemens.

@Josh, the dude who played Einstein IS the same guy from Nth Degree 😃

I think my take on this was it was the most fun since Data and Troi got possessed by evil. I also loved the admiral basically told Picard he was an imbecile for doing what he did with Hugh, and he turns right around and emptys the entire ship putting a doctor in command while the Borg are around.

I do love the twists and turns and the mystery of Data's "emotional journey," and let's be real, it's always great to see Lore, so I love that ending. But the story overall just doesn't do it for me. Even though the boys have seen pt 2, I will save the reasons why for that video because I feel like pt 2 majorly drags this one down with it.

Also interesting that in closed captioning on Netflix, Lore was “Man” when offscreen so it wouldn’t have been spoiled

After Locutus and Hugh, who in Starfleet would allow Picard to stay in command of so much as a frickin laundry ship? Sisko had the right idea towards him.

A great part 1. I remember reading the novel, over 30 years ago now. Really expanded on the episode, especially part 2. You see the original Borg attack on Oniaka 3 and a few other ships IIRC

Guys, guys, guys.... The Borg assimilate entire species.... in totality. Species after species. Billions and billions. Possibly trillions. Massive genocide. Over and over again. Destroying the entirety of the Borg through Hugh is a far better alternative. I don't subscribe to the notion that the Borg itself is a species. It is a population assembled by other species. And even if it IS a species unto itself.... if it is the aggressor trying to destroy even 1 species.... It is therefore exempt from the moral considerations you and Picard have extend to it. : P

I place Descent part 1 as my 2nd favorite end-of-season part 1 after BOBW, and my 3rd favorite part 1 overall, Chain of Command part 1 being my overall number 2.

Generally viewed as season 3 being where the show got its footing, and was seen as supplanting TOS. Certainly Final Frontier which aired in the summer of 89 didn't help TOS cause. And with only one film every other or third year, a sticker really hurt. And in comparison Season 3 started showing real improvement. This is based off of close to real time observations and ratings done on usenet groups, and than later the SOS ratings board. A very not scientific sample. But really the only one based on fans during the 90's. And again close to real time, so not influenced heavily by hindsight, Season 4,5 and 6 are generally considered TNG finest seasons. Season 6 during tis time and for a couple years after was considered TNG best reviewed season. There were some complaints about early season 6 (like Times Arrow II, Man of the People, Realm of Fear, True Q, and Rascals being hurt by the production team for the first time having to split focus on the preproduction and story development of the early stages of DS9, concept work was done, but the building of sets, the casting, the the development of weekly scripts was in force). But the generally feeling outside of those episodes Aquiel and Suspicions, was that the rest of the season was generally good to awesome. And yes there was an episode that generated nearly as much buzz immediately after airing as Inner Light (though not to that degree) and that was Tapestry. Nor for that matter was Chain of Command II far behind in that quality, both very heavy character pieces. All three being 5 star rated episodes. Average Rating on a 1-10 scale for seasons 3-6 3 - 7.04 4 - 7.25 5 - 7.26 6 - 7.33 The SOS is kind of an interesting snap shot of a very unscientific sample, of basic nerds who accessed the early web, and who were very (read deeply psychotic) in their passion of Trek. And it was close to real time (for that era anyway) with not the passage of time, in judging things with years of hindsight changing ratings much at all. Now the one trend that does exist is that we start to see the ratings (ie Nielsen ratings) slide start that continues throughout the run of Trek on broadcast TV. With the ratings overall peaking in the early sections and declining by the season to below the like for like from the previous season. And just to compare your favorite Josh Lessons, it was judged just a 3 out of 5 stars (for me it's 4 out of 5). Fairly middle of the road for the season. I always liked seeing where my opinion diverged so dramatically version the collective. For myself the biggest what the hell are people thinking was season 3's the Bonding. One of my favorite season 3 episodes, and it's ranked the worst episode of season 3 with 1 star, and being the 4th worst episode of TNG. Just boggles the mind.....

Remember seeing this when it first aired. The tension and cliff-hanger was absolutely jaw-dropping. It had been such a long time since a "Big Bad Borg" episode, Hugh not withstanding. So to see how it unfolds was just brilliant. Also, small footnote: I did not have "Data's been gooning" in my bingo cards...

Edit: they’ve already watched Part II so nothing here is a spoiler. This was such an underwhelming finale. We basically figured out how Data was being manipulated upon Lore’s reveal since we knew he had Data’s emotion chip. This didn’t have the “how are they going to get out of this” feel that BOBW had or the “wtf?!” feel that Redemption had. After watching this again I do think Part 1 of Descent is a good episode (even though I have objections to Picard getting stupid and basically leaving the ship empty with a Borg ship out there). There just wasn’t any questions to ponder at the fade out. I wish Part 2 even remotely held up but it’s so dreadful.

Not as bad as I remember it being.

A Locutus clone might have worked, but it would not have been nearly as satisfying as Lore. But your suggestion of Harry Mudd ... excellent! Instead of androids, he manages to make it to the 24th century and take control of some Borg - THAT is entertainment!

You know when the video is over 1 hour, 18 minutes, there's going to be a lot of discussion - and it's going to be GOOOOOOD!

This is also my favorite Part 1 after BOBW. I think the reason for the early titles is because they wanted to put Hawking's name before the main credits, since he's such a prominent person and is only in the first scene.

as I understand it, full impulse is quarter the speed of light (speed of light is Warp 1)

I love season 6, for the show to be still taking risks this late on is great. It’s probably my fave season of the show. Descent is a fun ride. Not perfect but it has an energy about it I love.

In my opinion Season 6 is kind of up and down and I do think it is a step down for the series. I am also someone who doesn't care about action and I want to dive into characters I just think it doesn't do it that well. Man of the People is fucking awful and TOS level misogynist, Rascals is ubnoxious and unfunny, Fistful of Datas shouodve been fun but is more boring, Quality of Life is underwhelming, Aquiel is bad but for me Man of the People and Rascals are worse, The Chase feels like nothing, Birthright really fumbled it's message, Lessons feels like a generic one episode romance story that has no weight to it, Suspicions is a waste of time and this episode Descent is also kind of bad. But there are also episodes I really love. Tapestry and Chain of Command are Top 10 of the series and all of the other episodes I didn't mention they're either good or really really good so it is a season where they experimented more and its really up and down.