UNCUT - Power Play (TNG S5E15) | Star Trek Journey 222
Comments (82)
Picard’s lionfish (in his ready room) is named Livingston after this episode’s director and TNG producer.
Brannon Braga does stay around for a while. He's kind of iconic. Eventually you'll be able to tell if it's a Braga episode. He usually writes weirder episodes, and/or episodes where at least some of the crew is taken over by something (like this episode and The Game). He can write great things, as well as laughably awful bombs (like The Game). He's done great things for Trek, as well as terrible things for Trek, but at least he's memorable.
This episode was a lot more fun than I remembered, but it was Marina & Brent & Colm's acting that stole the show here... even though the ending is a bit cliché. I like that they're not just some ghosts, but after they go into the ending exposition it loses steam and the fact that it's a misdirect & the 3 incorporeal beings are sent back to the "Phantom Zone" is too perfectly wrapped up for me personally... "SHOOT 'EM!!!"
Phantom zone is all I was thinking. Specifically, Smallville’s phantom zone.
I think your assessment is fair guys. I would have went toward an A, but the action brought it from a B to an A. The tension was pretty good. I didn’t think the episode dragged at all
I think Picard describes his view pretty clearly in Who Watches the Watchers. He knows that when people conclude that something is supernatural it's specifically because they don't understand it. The Mintakans labelled Picard a god because they couldn't grasp the abilities of him and the Enterprise crew. Picard has enough self awareness to realize that his understanding of Q is just as limited, so drawing any conclusions would be equally ignorant.
So, you've heard some people say this season isn't as great as they remembered? Well, we don't associate with their kind.;
Flattered and honored that you quoted my drivel. Funny, I've never thought of this episode as feeling "slow." I still feel that each minute of this installment is spent in trying to confront the situation, with every member of the cast contributing in their own way. Eliminating *most* of the mystery from the start allows the writing to confront the core of a suspenseful hostage situation. Later episodes of Trek that involve hostage/rescue plots (Enterprise, I'm loooooooking at you) tend to drag on super hard. That being said, the bits from this episode I vividly remember the *best* are the same parts you both love about it the most: the dramatic action moments at the very beginning. I'm quite pleased to have re-experienced this along with you two. As for Season Five as a whole, there are still some really really good episodes to be had, but... in large part to the re-examination provided by Target Audience... I have to agree that Season Four feels better overall.
It’s like Brent Spiner is constantly re-rolling his D&D character sheet and superbly acting whatever comes out
1:02:30 I can't help but laugh at the idea of David Livingston saying "Yeah, I only wanna direct a couple episodes" since he ended up directing so many
This has likely been shared already, but once you’re done with TNG you should check out the Shatner produced and hosted documentary called “Chaos on the Bridge”. You could probably watch it now, as it only covers the first 3 seasons of TNG, but best to play it safe and wait until you’re done with the show. Lot’s of great behind the scenes interviews with cast, crew and writers
The final TNG clip included in "Chaos on the Bridge" is from the final episode of S7 so, yeah... They should wait absolutely wait until post TNG. But they should absolutely watch it.
To contribute to your commentary on 'why not believe in ghosts, since the Enterprise encounters so many strange things', ghosts are a pseudoscience -- that is, it is an aspect of unsupported presumption to the nature of life and a lack of grasping, or willing to grapple with, the notion of impermanence. Picard is a man of science, therefore he understands BELIEF in primitive pseudoscience has no place in his negotiations with the 'spirit like' entities. As a good scientist he did in fact allow the possibility that his three crewmembers were possessed by spirits, demonstrated with his interrogation of the Troi entity in Ten Forward, though ultimately he determined there was not sufficient evidence to determine with certainty he was dealing with ghosts. The facts that Picard did have at hand was that these entities were not behaving in the manner of Starfleet officers and their motives were unknown. Therefore, with all of the facts Picard had available pointing to the contrary, it would not be correct for his actions as captain to entertain the idea that the entities were ghosts.
Yes, by definition ghosts don't make sense. Let's say that disembodied consciousness could affect the world after the death of their body. If that was so, there would be physical reasons governing why it happened. There would be reasons it happened in some cases but not others. There would be predictable mechanisms by which they operated. Saying something is "supernatural" means that it does not operate according to the laws of nature. If "ghosts" existed, they wouldn't be supernatural, they would be a natural phenomenon governed by perhaps unknown laws. Picard has no problem with the idea physical principles resulted in separations of consciousness from bodies that can now posses people (by physical laws) What he can't accept is "ghosts" which by definition don't operate by natural laws. Thus there is no sense or reason for their existence or behavior. THAT is what Picard means, and I've made this argument to people who claim to believe in supernatural phenomenon. "Supernatural" is an incoherent concept. Picard believes there are entities he ahsnt ecountered that could operate by some yet understood laws. But to believe in magic, or something that has no laws and happens for no reason Picard, as a student of philosphy, humanism, metaphyscis, understand these things are fundamental confusions.
Brent Spiner is just the best, as Data or any variation of Data. Also we can never have enough Ro
If you wanna get technical about it, since apart from programming they are virtually identical, we already saw the Data and Worf fight. Back in Season 1, when Lore kicked his ass halfway up one side of the turbolift shaft and down the other.
Alex every single Molly scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deVlcKhNLLk
This isn't an episode I particularly care for. Everything seemed very contrived and silly, sometimes disturbing... ● a ship lost 200 years ago that had never been found despite a distress beacon blaring; ● The notion that ONLY Cargo Bay 4 could do a "blowout"; ● O'Brien selfishly risking his life to beam down, could have just beamed down the pattern enhancers; ● Troi the ironic leader of the aliens; ● Data being taken over by an alien, which despite being an electrical alien, is hardly likely compatible with his systems; ● Data antagonizing Worf and Worf backing down; ● The storm effects moving towards the Away team that looked like nothing to me; ● O'Brien baddy's obsession with his poor wife and child; ● Picard calling their bluff and the aliens just taking it and going back to the moon without incident; ● The aliens being beamed into the cargo bay and just staying there. Two or three of these wouldn't break the episode for me, but all of these together shatter any suspension of disbelief I might have and lament the "loose" writing this one had. I don't care if it was written by one person or thirty, it's shit. The solid acting is its only truly redeeming quality.
good point about just beaming down the pattern enchancers. That could have been fixed by something like saying the storm had gusting winds and seeing the away team have to hold on to things to not get blown away. Then it would make some sense as the enhacers would have been blown away before they were retrieved by the team. I guess even with that you could say "well, we could just add a heavy base weight" but say there wasn't time. I missed that one. I have less problem with Data being possessed as the details of how it works are never explained, and assuming something like the pattern is somehow superimposing itself over the projected "holonym" of conscousness, as long as Data is "actually conscious" it wouldn't matter the hardware that was used to produce that because they are merging with it at a higher level. They wouldn't need to understand how it works, just that they could do it, so they would be able to do so with any conscious entity whatever their physical biology, We don't know what there actual bodies looked like, so this species could be non-humanoid. I agree the ending was underwhelming, but it does make sense. They didn't want rest, they wanted to escape, and Picard offered them the option between returning and certain death (maybe Data could have survived for awhile but not long)
One of my favorites, honestly. Great acting job from all three, but Brent Spiner stands out, because he wanted this character to be distinct from Lore.
Note: I never paid attention to the opening credits, writers, directors, until (re)watching with the crew, so the reactions to those are super neat.
I think their reactions are a bit ridiculous. To me it's akin to just playing sports on paper... sports teams play actual games because that's the only way to actually find out who beats whom.
The more you continue your Star Trek journey the more of you'll see of Brannon Braga, not just as a writer but as a producer as well. Even executive producer.
and his general reputation is not the best
I think I voted this an A going off memory, but with a few of the flaws like the weaker ending in mind, I think B is fair. The strength of this episode was in giving Sirtis, Meaney and Spiner a chance to flex their acting muscles playing the bad guys. Spiner especially I felt did a good job distinguishing this character from his performance as Lore. There are some parallels, but the 2 performance are distinct enough IMO. It's still a solid episode though. The fights on the bridge and in 10 forward were fun and intense, and O'Brien, Keiko and Ro got some time in the spotlight. Pretty good use of the cast all around. As for comparisons to TOS, Return to Tomorrow definitely comes to mind.
The federation having already discovered Dr Korby's robots, Mudd's robots, Soongs robots, Sargons robots, all with the demonstrated ability to have human consciousness inside of them. Picard: Sorry there is nothing we can do.
I believe in aliens, but not ghosts. I just never believed that was the way the afterlife worked. I think it's only relatetively recently that writing/directing became the norm than the exception. For a LONG time writers had to contend with their work only being interpreted. This is why a writer'll take their names off of works they don't like. In fact I believe the writers of Trek in the 90s were discouraged from visiting the set. There is a future episode whose entire tone change from a comedic to serious one during production, and they edited out the more blatant comedic bits to make a good episode. Plus the "wall of writers" those are these writer's resumés. Or at least their references. They write an ep they like, it goes on their CV and the credit is their proof of work. It's not just a pride thing. Especially pre-internet when you have to find a copy. It's also why guest actors names are dumped at the front, so that employers don't have to sit through a whole episode to see if someone is telling the truth. (And no, they probably don't watch the whole episode and just go on word of mouth from people who did, or just watched their scenes in isolation) all that stuff is job things, not PR clout.
Solid A, though there isn't much I disagree with in your thoughts. I think the ending is a bit convenient "bad guy explains their plan and is immediately foiled" tropey, but a subpar ending doesn't weigh it down as much for me as it does for you guys.
Dr. Crusher loves ghosts
ROTFL!!!
I could be wrong, but I think the reason Picard, and Starfleet in general, shy away from gods and ghosts and those sorts of things is because of Gene. If I recall correctly, he was a humanist atheist and as such would not have believed in such things, and I think his thinking was the humans in the future were going to be humanist atheists and share a similar point of view on such things. In other words, anything that is 'god-like' is really 'just an alien' or whatever. Personally, I think that works some of the time, but not all of the time. The Q are as close to gods as you can get, as far as I can tell, for one example. And while they scoff at ghosts and souls, we literally see consciousness existing outside of the body just like a spirit or ghost, but that's okay as long as we call it the 'technobabble word-of-the-week'.
I love when the boys are like "keep the comments a few sentences, cause if they're too long, we won't read them" and then Josh proceeds to read an entire epic fanfiction novel of a patron take.
It’s one of those graphs with the line at a 45 degree angle where the x axis is length of the take and y axis is how good the take must be
The vast, vast majority of film and TV over the last 100 years has had different writers and directors. It's not weird at all to direct someone else's words, it's the default expectation.
Data has superhuman strength. He could rip worf's arms off. It's not a remotely fair fight.
Yeah, he is not only vastly stronger, he is also able to take more punishment without even a notice than what a Klingon could deliver.
There was that season 3 episode of TOS where the entities asked to use their bodies and were given permission but decided they didn't want to leave
Return to Tomorrow. They may have mentally blocked it so as not to compliment Dana Mouldar. But that's also the "Risk is our business!" episode, and the one with Leonard Nimoy's epic door lean.
I also feel like in cases where the director didn't write the screenplay the director gets too much credit- yes they are responsible for the execution but the writer is still responsible for the qualty of the underlying story
well you guys know this but generally screen writers write in a specific way with language that describes the scenes both visually and with dialogues and the director chooses how he wants to present that and make some changes for their vision of it.
Too Many Cooks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8
"troi" in her reveal explains that this moon was chosen because it separated the prisoners consciousness from their physical bodies, the storms carried their conscious patterns, so yes they originally had bodies. The idea I think was to make escape impossible given the conditions of the moon, so this was a prison for extreme recidivist violent offenders.
Alex fuckin killed me with his line at 44:43
He's right, too.
Nothing irks like enjoying a beer at a tap room and then a family walks in and brings their screaming brats. Wtf Keiko?!
my wife has run a home daycare for the last 12 years. we've had about 30 kids come in and out of here over that time between the ages of 6 months to 11 year olds. and it's not a coincidence that every kid that's been a problem for us has had complete asshats for parents. it always starts at home.
Yuk. Well.. not the worse. I'm betting a C from them? Na. Maybe less. Watching now. Just enjoy their conversations, if anything.
So... you like it when they don't drag the mystery out, but you didn't like how they spelled it all out at the beginning? I think having them NOT be the Essex crew did keep some mystery, anyway.
What he specifically dislikes is when the audience is ahead of what the crew knows. Doesn't care for the trope of watching the crew trying to figure out something the audience is aware of. He seemed to be saying he would have preferred if we didnt have the scene showing the lights coming into them, so we the audience would have been surprised with the heel turn.
Other people have probably already mentioned this, but Ronald Moore did not direct any Star Trek episodes. I'm not sure there are any Trek writers who have also directed.
Damn, for whatever reason I thought he directed and wrote a few eps but no, you are correct. Interesting!
“Story by” can mean minor elements. Someone might pitch a story, and the producers like an aspect of it even if they go in a different direction. That person might get part of the “story by” credit. I believe Trek, at this point, had a writers room so many writers might be involved in the breakdown, and one or two get assigned the screenplay. And Ron Moore did not, to my knowledge, direct. Did I misunderstand what you said?
I didn't understand that sequence as them just pausing to explain. I understood it more as there are like four different things that different people need to do very quickly in an exact sequence, and coordinating all that takes a moment. I do agree it could've been done better, but I don't think it was just "let's pause to say what we're doing".
Exactly right. Geordi had to override the forcefield, Beverly had to activate the containment field, and Ro had to fire the thing. If it hadn’t had to charge up…
The part where O'Brien beams down with the enhanced rods...and takes a 50/50 chance of dying. Couldn't he have just beamed down the enhanceres with some instructions (on one of the trek iPads or even written out). I'm sure data could have figured it out. Lol
But then Colm wouldn't get to play the bad guy. Also I think O'Brien is an adrenaline junkie. There was this and the time he tried to beam through like a 2 millisecond gap in the Phoenix's shields, and his whole kayaking thing. Bro gets off on laughing in death's face
Even when credits list 1 or 4 writers, nearly all writing in TV or film is done by committee. Writer's Guild only allows credit to be given to "x" number of people, but invariably multiple cooks have input into making the soup.
Yeah and it’s not automatically a bad thing.
I don't think Picard had a problem in believing in 'ghosts'. I think Picard didn't believe (former) Starfleet officers would behave like that. Especially a Captain.
Well Troi said that he would never believe in ghosts.
Is Riker the only character besides Keiko to call the chief “Miles?”
I can only guess Captain Ben Maxwell from the previous season did
Really enjoy this episode, especially the score actually. It's cool to see three of our main crew acting so completely out of character, but I also really enjoy the rest of our bridge crew working together and trying to resolve the situation. Also, I really like that Troi drives virtually the entire plot (both before and after being possessed). Great to see her in the heart of the action.
Are you really complaining about the writing credits on this episode?? Why is that important to care about??
It’s not a bad sign post the quality of a script if you see a wall of writers that had to rewrite it in TV of the time. That said, you have cases like Yesterday’s Enterprise that prove that it’s not a rule. Star Trek had a pretty solid writing team, so I err on the side of it’s not a red flag as much as in other shows.
Just call a ghost a "gravimetric field distortion" and I'm sure Picard will buy it
“Ah yes, very well.”
I thought the episode slowing down after Ten Forward was building tension so that the moment where they all start walking down to the Cargo Bay was the climax. I really felt that uncomfortable tension bubbling throughout. My only real issue is that after the climax, it was a little underwhelming how Picard and the crew actually managed to "defeat" the criminals. I was really hoping for a "Aha! Gotcha!" moment
Agreed. The solution seemed a little too easy and anti-climatic given everything that came before, which I all liked. And I don't know it was so certain that these prisoners would have chosen their previous existence over death. But I suppose criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot despite what alien race they come from.
No change in the Woppin the Worm counter. BUT some extras. I want to give Keiko a -1 . I say anyone bringing a screaming baby to a restaurant/bar deserves to be taken hostage. Next. I am not sure Ro-Ker didn't slide into the Captain's Ready room for a quickie but it would not count since the score has already been counted. Even though Chief has a score with Keiko, I am guessing future sex is off the table. I have heard wives with-hold sex because the husband didn't take out the trash. It seems taking the wife hostage and threatening her may but a dampener on the mood for a while at least.
The baby wouldn't have been screaming if Keiko hadn't been held there with her against Keiko's will. I mean, O'Brien did say Molly would be upset at being fed late... and Molly was upset.
The conclusion of this one is too swift and convenient.
Agreed. I love everything else, but it was just kind of disappointing how they kept going back and forth and their plans keep getting thwarted, but then the end is just kind of "Uhh, trap em in a forcefield"
Seriously the reaction to the "wall of writers" is like my favorite thing ever
Oh wow. Never noticed. One of Worf's security goons was Lyta Alexander from Babylon 5.
It was? I've got to check that.
Molly's gonna be pissed!!
Somehow this is the first time I’m seeing this episode? I have no memory if it.
Same
Lt. Commander Data: Your restraint was most remarkable. Lieutenant Worf: You have no idea. Fun episode for me. And points to Colm Meaney for flexing the acting chops.
Congratulations to Colm Meaney for earning the Irish Academy's Lifetime Achievement Award this year (to be awarded Feb. 14)! Very well deserved. Hope you get your proposed statue in Killarney.
Could be David...😂😂😂