The Dosh™ Overhaul

Two things, more as a direction idea than concrete implementation: 1. I find most interesting mechanics/stages where there's no single optimal/intended solution, and you end up with mix of suboptimal ones instead - something Seablock in midgame does decently well (especially if you disable catalyst sorting), and your endgame Seablock base hit with I believe resin: bio being much easier to set up, but pain to scale. Keep an eye if challenges aren't just solutions in search of a problem, and it could be fine. 2. Aquilo was a disappointment in Space Age - I sort of expected it to be a combination of all challenges with its unique mechanics on top as endgame test of skill (restricted building area, recycling/mixed output, spoilage, plus heat mechanics and robot penalty all at once), while it was new cool looks, new cool mechanic and... that's it. My endgame Aquilo base literally fit within sad 80x80 block somehow, including rocket silos and power/heat production. This felt so wrong. On smaller things: quality just scales too hard with levels, make it logarithmic instead and it becomes minor upgrade option at exponential cost without overriding the challenge of building, I believe engine allows adjusting default multipliers. Same for beacons - we can now adjust beacon overlap effects, SpaceEx beacon overload led to fun design choices, could have beacon effect adjusted so you just want 1-2 beacons per building tops.

+1 to the idea of exploration à la freight forwarding. I want a reason to explore planets more thoroughly than I do today. Right now there’s no mystery to what else is out there, just larger, more varied patches of the same stuff. That’s something I liked about Warptorio: each place felt genuinely new. Maybe it’s as simple as resources that only exist way out there, far from the start area. That said, I also like the idea of physical features that make traversal harder. I want more sense of mystery and adventure. Right now sometimes the planets just feel really... small. For example, I’m sure I could get some joy out of dropping back down to Gleba and reorganizing everything, but in a standard playthrough you basically don’t need to. Wire up something basic, and it’s enough to get you through.

I don't have any suggestions and I might not fit the target audience at all. While I like watching others deal with stressful challenges and strict timing restraints I don't play that stuff myself, I like building logistic networks, solve things slowly and step by step etc, so I'm not particularly fond of huge setups that have to be built all at once like Gleba or bigger spaceships. I particularly hate the combination of spoilage, burner anything (unless it's a short phase that can be quickly researched out of) and circular factories, so I'm looking forward to what you come up with, hoping it won't be a killer criterium for the whole thing for me (or there will be a toggle somewhere to make it bearable in the options). I really want to see trains return to being a vital part of bases in SA though and possibly more interconnected space logistics. Anyway, good luck with that project, looking forward to see how it develops and I'm sure we will get a bunch of interesting videos out of it in any case.

Idea 1: Aquilo as an icy moon. I read the overhaul scratchsheet document and one idea I had would be to make Aquilo an icy moon of the unnamed gas giant (Essentially Jupiter and Europa). This way, Aquilo could be split into a surface landing phase, and subglacial ocean phase to fit the "two-phase" theme of each planet (Vanilla resource vents exist on the surface with new resources under the ice in the ammonia ocean). Additionally, Aquilo being a moon of the gas giant could create some relation to each planet's technologies, where you could have something along the lines of Aquilo's cryogenics facility being useful in liquifying and distilling the gas giant's air for noble gases. Idea 2: Bulk material handling. This may be less feasible in the context of game design, but an interesting area of overhaul could be the addition of bulk material handling. These would function somewhere between items and fluids, where things such as ore or raw gleba fruits would need specialized conveyors and/or hopper train cars to be transported. One of the main aspects of this would be bulk conveyors, which would be capable of transporting bulk items at high throughputs. Additionally, you could have bulk loaders that place bulk items directly into machines. To differentiate bulk conveyors from vanilla conveyors, maybe have them placeable similarly to train tracks where they can curve or be elevated. The second part of bulk logistics would be hopper train cars, as these would help satisfy the overhaul's goal of placing more emphasis towards rail networks, where the player would have specialized bulk unloading stations that empty the hopper cars and possibly connect to bulk item storage buffers (ore piles or grain silos for example), or bulk conveyors that feed directly into machines. Ultimately bulk logistical items would interact with one another similarly to how space platform hubs, cargo bays and landing pad unloading bays interact with each other. In game, bulk logistic situations could work something like this: 1. Train unloader -> Bulk ore pile -> Bulk conveyor -> Bulk loader -> Smelter 2. Mining drill -> Bulk conveyor -> Bulk ore pile -> Train loader -> Factory Random ideas: - Go full Renai Transportation and let the player make giant mass drivers that shoot trains into orbit or to other planets at a massive energy cost - Move the asteroids to an asteroid belt in the solar system, so they aren't much of a threat towards space ships most of the time, but could provide some gameplay advantage towards asteroid mining.

A little late to the party but I had an idea. In your document you said you wanted to remove Nauvis and you wanted to have a bomb that would create the shattered planet. What if you still started on nauvis and later turned it into the shattered planet. It’s poetic to blow up your starting home. The problem I for see is anything you build on the surface is temporary. The solution is for there to be no craftable science packs on nauvis. You relatively quickly unlock space travel and start exploring the different planets. By the time you need to blow up the nauvis you have bases on other planets crafting better versions of buildings. You could have research needed to get off the planet done by trigger techs or done by other means.

Hi Dosh, I'm super stoked to hear you are developing your own mod, and I am very very interested into be directuon you are taking with mod. It seems like many of the other patrons have offered some great ideas. I have a few of my own which will be more focused on the planets ecology, since you mentioned wanting to change some things there. VULCANUS: I really like the idea of the worms being a much more permanent and long term obstacle than they are in vanilla. Weirdly this is something I have thought about myself. My proposition for VULCANUS is this; instead of having the entirety of vulcanus save the start be worm territory, worms and their territories could perhaps only cover ~ 30% of the the available map. Make their ranges much bigger so they are significant logistical challenges, but allow the player to access the resources across the map without having to go through the territory. The landing zone after all is worm free, so why can't other parts of the planet? This allows the player to build up on vulcanus without having to confront the immensely stronger worms. You could have the ore patches be richer in worm territory if you wanted to incentivize the player to reach the end game, but I don't think it would be necessary. I also think this solution would be moderately acheivable to code into the mod, and it shouldn't introduce a ups heavy workaround. GLEBA; I always found it strange how pollution doesnt exist on gleba? Yea sure the native buildings there make spores but you also have regular machinery that pollutes on nauvis, and by definition should also pollute gleba. The spores are interesting, but perhaps they can have a different effect on the local flora and fauna? Perhaps increased spore presence on a chunk increases the likelihood of the bacterial rocks to spawn in watery areas which in turn can create an alternative for growing copper and iron? Perhaps spore saturation on a tile can slow growth and production, requiring a biological workaround (introducing some thing to eat or consume the spores). I think pollution, like it is on nauvis should then the primary pull for aggression from the natives rather than spores. They are a natural phenomenon on the planet so in and of itself it shouldnt be the pull for aggression, unless it's given a specific reason for why. Fulgora is a dead planet and should stay dead. Same with aquilo. That being said I think items on aquilo should not spoil. This may even be a good incentive to use it more for science rather than bringing everything to nauvis. Anyways I know you are swamped with ideas already so I'll keep this short. Looking forward to seeing what comes of this project!

My friend and I were very happy to see the design doc include a bunch of ideas that we were theorizing about in regards to some fun additions to Spage! We're super excited to see how this project progresses. We've got some ideas we think would be cool too, which I've written below. It's more of a list of things that we personally thought would be awesome in a Spage mod, no idea if any of these jive with you, but maybe you think some of these are sorta cool. Also, no idea if any of these are original or have been said before by others. I do apologise for the wall of text, which flagrantly goes against your succinctness requirement, but we did have quite a few ideas and I wasn't too sure how to reduce the word count without loss of meaning. Sorry for the long read! - With the 2.1 update adding the ability to transfer items between space platforms, a compelling gameplay feature would be to have some kind of manufacturing that can only be done in space, on a stationary space platform or "space station" orbiting around a planet. Such a station wouldn't need any thrust but would still have to be defended against incoming asteroids (you could even make some planets be a lot more treacherous to build orbital space stations around, either with higher asteroid density or bigger/tougher asteroids). An incredibly exciting idea would be having to do astroponics in the orbit of Gleba for an Astrobiological Science Pack or something like that, basically Agri Science 2. Vanilla Space Age lacks meaningful ground-to-space or space-to-ground logistical challenges save for the Promethium science pack requiring speedy delivery of biter eggs to ensure they don't spoil before you arrive at the Shattered Planet (and I guess Agri Science too). Also, the thought of having to build space stations around planets makes my brain zap in a good way. - Vulcanus needs a reason for setting up defences. It's kind of hilarious how in vanilla Spage you unlock artillery turrets on Vulcanus but never have to place a single one on there. The changed to demolishers outlined in your doc sound fantastic, but the idea of larval demolishers that pose an active threat to your base that you sort of touched on in your Spage Retrospective video would be great too. Maybe adult demolishers would leave your base alone so long as you don't build in their patrol routes but larval demolishers could seek to munch on your tasty machines and they could only be killed by uranium ammo (making ammo imports from Nauvis a priority, and if you lowered the stack size of uranium ammo that would require massive hauler ships) or artillery turrets. Thus you'd need to play both a passive defensive role against the adult demolishers and an active defensive role against larvae. Perhaps the larvae could be nesting in the deep lava pools you mentioned in the design doc, which, upon disturbing, will start spawning larvae across all of Vulcanus, creating an entirely new threat to your base? - Fulgora definitely needs enemies, and the Fulgoran robots in the design doc sound perfect. We were thinking the bots could drop some item required in an EM Science Pack 2 of sorts, but looks like you had that idea for the enemies on the new planet Nacht instead! It'd be a very cool mechanic either way, and would challenge the player to co-exist with the enemy faction instead of wiping them out entirely. I think Fulgora should be a lot more restrictive in what the player is actually allowed to do, that is to say the player should be forced to build around the ruined Fulgoran technology instead of outright stampeding over it with cliff explosives and the deconstruction planner. Maybe the only way to collect lightning in the early game would be to hook power poles up to the existing Fulgoran lightning rods that are already present on the planet. Maybe there could be some ruined Fulgoran manufactories that need to be first fixed with repair packs then powered using the lightning rods in order to do research. Lightning needs to be a whole lot more of a threat on Fulgora too, because it's basically innocuous once you've covered your base in lightning collectors. What if whenever lightning strikes a player-made lightning collector, it explodes if the accumulators in the same electric network are already full? This would make it a hard requirement to build as many accumulators as you can to ensure you never fill them up with charge, and there'd have to be some way to strategically discharge them whenever they get too full. Having Fulgora be a delicate balancing act between running out of power and being overcharged would be a pretty welcome challenge for a planet otherwise lacking in threats. - After hearing in a dev blogpost that Gleba was initially intended to have 12 farmable fruits instead of the 2 that we got in the release of Spage, I immediately knew there will eventually be a mod that added those other 10 back in, complete with meaningful crafting chains for all of them, so I'm glad to see that idea get a mention in the design doc. I absolutely loved the bacteria farming mechanic on Gleba and I'd love to see more of that, perhaps in the form of bioengineering bacteria into new forms that produce other types of minerals/materials, like synthesizing plastic from a genetically engineered strain of the copper bacteria, or injecting bacterial DNA into the pentapod eggs plus a couple electronic circuits to form a subspecies of cyborg pentapod that will attack other pentapods for you. Hell, why not go so far as to make the Spidertron be a biomechanical machine that you need to grow in a biochamber? There's no limit to the biotech horrors you could get up to on Gleba. Also some mods add items that explode when they spoil, and that's the kind of CBT I think would be perfect for a Dosh overhaul. - Since Aquilo is so close to the Shattered Planet, it would be awesome if you had to defend it against asteroids that enter its atmosphere and could potentially hit your base. Maybe the defences could be on the ground, or even in space. A large enough defensive space station could prevent asteroids from ever reaching your factory on the ground. And of course, we can't wait to see the brain jellyfish floating around! - The three new planets sound awesome. Nacht would work especially well as a place where you get to put your new ultra-powerful turrets to good use. Railguns being completely useless on the ground and rocket turrets being *almost* useless on the ground in vanilla Spage was really disappointing in my opinion. Having a new super-tanky enemy emerge from the fissures of Nacht that can only be dealt with by using railgun turrets would be fun. Railgun ammo is also really cheap to make in vanilla Spage, so perhaps making it require Fulgora or Aquilo products would (once again) force the player to have a massive transit of ammunition from one end of the solar system to the other. The new Nachtian enemies could be immune to lasers but weak to explosives to encourage building rocket turret defensive perimeters around the bulwark base. Phantasma currently kinda sounds like Fulgora but harder, so maybe instead of being its own planet, it could be a moon of Fulgora that the Fulgoran natives conquered then defended extremely well with an energy field around the whole planet. The gas giant planet sounds like it'd be an Aquilo-level or post-Aquilo challenge, so you could definitely have it so that bases in its orbit require outside imports just like Aquilo. A crazy idea would be to make the space platform sink into the planet if it doesn't have enough power to withstand its gravity! (I guess this could be implemented as a script that deletes the platform if it's in a power deficit for N amount of ticks, with a custom alert that starts blaring when there's not enough power) The 2.1 update to space platforms is once again really useful here because you could have space-faring ships come and go from space stations around the gas giant to deliver supplies / take away science and advanced products. - Honestly, while making space platforms be entirely self-sufficient and able to both fuel and defend themselves just using the raw materials gathered from asteroids is cool at first, it gets a bit boring after the third time setting up a new platform design to go to Aquilo. There should be an easier way to make ships refuel and restock on defences using supplies made on the ground, which are then sent up to the ships. For power, a new type of super-accumulator could store energy for laser turrets, bypassing the need for gun turrets and the requisite ammo, and compressed fuel and oxidizer canisters would make transferring fuel from a refuelling station to a spaceship a breeze. Or you could just make fuel and oxidizer be craftable on the surface of a planet and able to be stored in barrels, which are then sent up by rocket. You could even add new types of thruster that require more complex fuels that can only be made on certain planets. Ion fuel (made from radioactive products) from Nauvis and lithium oxidizer from Aquilo, or something like that. - I've got pretty much nothing on the Shattered Planet that wasn't in the doc already. Your idea to build a planet-shattering bomb to crack it open is fabulous. I can't wait to see Trupen exact his revenge on Gleba by simply vaporising it. What if the win condition for the modpack wasn't to escape the solar system, but instead to blow up Nauvis? Or blow up the sun to turn it into a black hole? (I don't know whether it's canonically called Calidus or if that's just a Space Exploration thing) Spitballing silly ideas here, but the idea to make the Shattered Planet something you can land on is definitely a good one. - The planets in Spage are completely stationary and the distances between them never changes. My friend had the idea to fix that by making planets actually orbit around the sun, and as a result the distance between planets changes over time. No idea if that's possible in the engine, but it would make for some difficult gameplay involving planning when best to send space platforms on a trip so they don't run out of fuel or take too long (especially when it comes to spoilable materials from Gleba). I think that's all we've got. Again, it's just a list of things we brainstormed on our own so we've got no idea if any of this fits in with your vision for the Dosherhaul, but it was nonetheless fun to think about. Can't wait to see where the project goes!

Probably someone else mentioned it but the Factory Must Grow mechanic of overheating in space could be used as the balancing factor between fast ships and large haulers Slow but large ships generate low but consistent heat across the whole ship Small fast ships have localized hotspots that require a lot of cooling Also maybe make it so that every route you can go either through the asteroids or avoiding them Avoiding path would be bit longer (because you are constantly turning to dodge) and still have asteroid or two. Also this is something i don't know if its possible but the avoidance path can only be taked by a ship with enough speed/mass, kicking you back to the asteroid path if you fall below (because you can no longer dodge) so small ships can dodge and weave while big ships plow through

Whatever you do, please excise all the cancer from the furfag that infests and detracts from Spage.

You could also have one of the sciences just be a fluid with all of the consequences that entails regarding transport and manufacturing.

I have two thoughts on features that you might want to consider which I find to be in line with your aspirations for this mod. The first is to have the beacons research instead make building with modules give adjacency bonuses. This means that the research does give an instant improvement on the effect of modules while "optimal" design would require some very compact builds. This would have to be tuned regarding things like maximum number of stacks, percentage that becomes the adjacency bonus and if the bonus only applies when the building itself is working (to avoid empty buildings being used as old beacons). The second thought is on the combat planet where I think it would be interesting to have enemies scale only on distance from the map center and then having the natural resourced also start spawning based on distance. This would give the player the trade off between going there early and making highly complex and optimized builds that can push out far from spawn or if you wait until later in the game when you have researched more military science to have it easier. The "second tier" resources would then simply be further from spawn making it very hard (thought not impossible) to access them when you first arrive.

agricultural tower variant to collect enemy gunk sounds cool, but additionally later game could have "harvester bots" or more simply allow one of the bots to collect from the floor automatically. could be used in other ways too. I really like the idea of starting off in space and picking which planet to begin with, maybe Nauvis could be changed to have something more unique to it, like leaning into uranium more

a consideration for vulcanus - maybe machines could also have muffler modules that reduce noise (noise pollution?) that have an obvious opportunity cost but also allow them to be placed closer to worm patrol paths... and maybe sound barriers that are like walls that are a later game research? maybe that interferes with the whole kill worms late game idea also i think potentially interesting is that if aluminum is going to be included its industrial production requires electrolysis, so maybe its one of those fulgoran techs thats useful on vulcanus? the idea of coming back to a planet like fulgora scares me but for sure it might be interesting if especially there there was some level of underground extraction - maybe the old civilization fled underground before dying out and the scrap underground is harder to reach but richer? inspired by wetware: maybe advanced research tech could use gleban + fulgoran biochips or something of the sort? based on real life experience the solution to spoilage and rot in molecular biology and whatnot is -80 C freezers so maybe early fridge tech decreases spoil rate and late freezers either halt it or slow it down even more? (but you need defrosting recipes, or specific ways to handle frozen stuff like incubating it) also in terms of the real life applications of biotechnology, there's something to be said about biomimicry for material science. maybe the pentapods' grabby claws inspire research? also if you're going into fluids, agriculture is a major source of some important chemicals (ethanol) and you could stretch it to be a source of other products harder to get via petrochem also echoing another comment, overheating might not be your issue on nacht, radiation or even pressure might be depending on how venus-y vs mars-y it is overall i will be watching closely and perhaps even salivating very cool ideas and i hope development goes smoothly

I'm not sure how practical they'd be, but I've always thought that either adding in something similar to or adjacent to modded minecraft modular multiblock structures to factorio could work out neat where instead of machine to belt to machine, you have machines that decide the end result recipe based on their configuration, like for example you make a final product by arranging "synthesis arrays" machines around the main producer and what you get out is based on how many arrays/what you feed into them. The other idea involves machines that need to be autonomously relocated like making it oscillate between two points midcraft like hot then cold then hot again, whether through advanced bots or even tile teleporting. Either way I'm excited to try the overhaul out once I finish space age, which comes after finishing expensive mode pre-spage.

I've always been bothered by the lack of consequences when flushing tanks or pipes. There is yes the Wreckage Pollution mod, which generates pollution when a storage tank is destroyed based on its contents, but otherwise liquids can simply disappear without any impact on the environment. What I have in mind is a mechanic where fluids spilled from destroyed entities or manually flushed systems spread across the ground. The size of the spill would depend on the amount of fluid stored in the tank, pipe, or machine. Different fluids would create different effects and challenges for the player. Fluid Behaviour Here some examples Water - Creates a temporary wet or muddy area. - Slightly reduces movement speed of players and creatures. - Prevents placement of heavy machinery while the ground is saturated. - Small entities such as chests remain placeable. - Larger entities such as assembling machines are not. - Gradually absorbed by the ground over time. Steam - Quickly dissipates and leaves no lasting residue. - Damages biological entities within the affected area due to high temperatures: Engineer, Biters and other creatures, Biochambers and other biological buildings Oils (Crude Oil, Heavy Oil, Light Oil, Lubricant) - Covers the ground with an oily layer. - Reduces movement speed of players, creatures, and vehicles. - Spidertrons cannot traverse heavily contaminated areas. - Not absorbed by the ground. - Slowly evaporates, generating pollution while doing so. - Severity depends on the type of oil: - - Heavier oils create stronger movement penalties and more pollution. - - Lighter oils evaporate faster. Acids - Do not significantly affect movement speed. - Continuously damage entities within the contaminated area: Players, Creatures, Vehicles, Trees, Buildings and machines - Gradually absorbed by the ground. - Evaporate relatively quickly but generate significant pollution. Lava - Causes even greater damage than acid. - Must be cleaned before construction can resume. - Is neither absorbed nor evaporated. - May solidify over time or require specialised cleanup. - Can interact with water and landfill mechanics. Fluid Properties Different fluids could be configured through a common set of properties: - Spill radius (Ideally circular rather than square.) - Damage over time - Movement penalties - Building restrictions - Path blocking - Evaporation rate - Ground absorption rate - Pollution generation - Cleanup difficulty - Terrain Interaction The same spill should behave differently depending on the terrain. - Soil > Baseline behaviour. - Desert > Faster evaporation, Higher absorption rates. - Ice or Frozen Ground > Little or no absorption, Slower evaporation, Larger spread due to low friction. - Concrete, Stone Paths and Tiles > Reduced absorption. Larger spill radius as liquids spread more easily across hard surfaces. Planet temperature could further influence evaporation and absorption rates, making the mechanic more dynamic across different environments. Integration with Pipe Pressure This mechanic could integrate very well with a future pipe pressure system. For example: - Excessive pressure could cause pipes or tanks to rupture. - Larger pressure differences could increase spill size. - Emergency pressure relief systems could become useful infrastructure. I suspect a full pressure-dependent throughput system would be difficult to implement, otherwise the Factorio developers might have chosen that approach instead of the current pipe-length limitations. Nevertheless, pressure-induced ruptures could add an interesting layer of risk management without requiring a complete fluid simulation overhaul.

Phantasma: perhaps there are intangible resources that can only be mined when the right kind of radiation is shown upon them, either a visible light lamp of the right spectrum or maybe using some radioactive material from Nacht (or maybe both and the resource form Nacht enables the second stage). If you want to complicate it if the material is lit for too long the spectrum required either shifts or it just stops working for a while. Solution is either light signal rotation on a timer or light turn on and off on a timer.

I would love to see a Nauvis specific research and production buildings, maybe all based around nuclear technologies. Something equivalent to the Foundry/EM Plant for Centrifuge and heat pipes? Maybe add heat based buildings and inserters to go with Aquilo?

The mod "Challenging Pack Logistics" gives all the planetary science packs a quirk (agricultural science spoiling is unchanged) so that each planet's science transporter needs to be designed differently. It's an interesting take on space logistics and could be extended. And I think spoiling has a ton of untapped potential as a mechanic. The idea I was able to get working for planet Crucible is a "spoilable catalyst" that's never consumed by crafting but spoils quickly; it creates a more Interesting balance between speed and productivity modules. And there are a lot of other ways spoiling can be used that's not in Vanilla, like: expensive recipes that reset freshness to inventivize letting items almost spoil, multiple spoils steps, cyclical spoil results, items that are "activated" only by spoiling very slowly so you have to predict demand in advance, etc.

Assuming you did add back in the cut Gleba plants, a bonus for planting different plants next to each other in the same agricultural tower grid could be interesting. I don't know how the bonus would be applied, maybe the plants could be given a type of neighbor bonus? New soils or a way to ignore the biome requirements might be needed as well. I'm not sure how much this helps the planet as a whole but it could add a bit to the farming itself. Good luck Dosh I hope the mod goes well.

I think the biggest problem with Quality is that no quality is enough to beat the game, quality 3 is enough to work toward and with, and quality 5 is overkill unless you're megabasing. Where I would change Quality up is making Quality 1 the only quality available at the beginning of the game, the quality module and Quality 2 are unlocked at the same time with the research, but each future Quality is actually a "Quality +1" unlock with each planetary science. It no longer locks Quality 4 behind Gleba specifically, and lets players explore whichever planets they want in which order they choose.

- More nuanced challenges around transporting spoilable items between planets. Trade offs between fast spoiling dense products and slow spoiling items that are harder to transport. - Implementation detail to that end: simulate “refrigeration” with a slow recipe that just spits its (spoilable) ingredient back out at the same spoilage level and maybe consumes some coolant or whatever [in a building that takes a lot of space or energy]. Implement only for select items to preserve challenge - If you’re going to automate killing + resource collection, think about a way to automate spawning the enemy too, and maybe put some “get really effective at killing gungebois” research down in the gunge research tree. There’s potential for a really rewarding progression wherein the first time you kill the gungebois it’s a fight for your life, but tech unlocked by those resources make the next battle easier etc. until you’re factory farming the gungebois like cattle. - A surface that can’t independently make any meaningful amount of electricity might lead to interesting play, as long as the challenge isn’t trivialized too early by fusion or whatnot - ofc you gotta make some deep production chains with a step on each planet and a lot of going back and forth. Maybe throw in some alternate recipes locked to different surfaces in the intermediates to get some variety in factory designs

add beans

Not sure if it's been said yet. But fermentation is a controlled type of spoilage. So for a part 2 to gleba, ship in cold/hot products to act as adjunct to a brew. Or different crops or yeast strains from other planets. Different timers would complicate the challenge. The science isnt usable until 30 minutes fermented but rots in 2 hours unless you ship in sanitizer agents. Lean into brewing for more gleba options. 2 ideas what brews would be for 1. Consumables, it's lame and there isnt really a need, Can't drink a beer and say my inventory is bigger now can I. 2. Quality of life research: want your thrusters tuned a little fater? Have a few, maybe redneck ingenuity kicks in. Want better protection from ghosts or radiation? Get brave with a few drinks then kick ghost butt.

Following the "some resources only in some biomes" point, I would extend it to "some buildings can only be put in certain biomes". Rocket silos need to go on higher-elevation areas, as far as a 2D world can have those. Lava-foundries need to go near the lava seas, because you can't run a long pipe of lava. Maybe even harden the pipe extension limit for some fluids, if that's possible.

I was actually feeling the same with the lack of overhauls that incorporated space age. Glad you're working on this.. I'll try and keep my own ideas short. I feel good spot for this would just be a step above space age like how Krastorio is to 1.0. For Vulcanus my idea would be like how lava pools were in Fright Forwarding having to travel around the planet and built production chains around unmovable crafting machines during stage 2. Fulgora you could change the oil ocean to some type of dirty liquid with some byproductions when refining. I would also love to see more space production beside just white science

I think one of the biggest things I dont really like about SPage (or vanilla factorio in general) is how after nuclear, power seems to be just an after thought, its so easy and free to make nuclear powercells even without kovarex researched, I feel power generation should be more of a consideration, maybe have multiple ways to generate power and having to pick which one fits your needs in each planet, for that reason I really like how fulgora handles power even if its just accumulator spam compared to how vulcanus just gives you infinite power for no cost at all

Honestly, the thing that popped to mind is to maybe have Vulc be a 3-phase planet. Phase one => basic buildings, have to stay away from lava, lest they overheat. Phase two => after unlocking the stuff that allows you to cool stuff on Nacht Phase three => the stuff with the lava lake

Honestly, the biggest gripe I have with Spage is the fact you can only have one cargo landing pad per surface. It really pushes me into a design philosophy I hate, which is reliance on bots, even with recent changes announced to them, I don't just want a massive blob of cargo bays somewhere on the map for the sake of trains. I don't feel like it'd be particularly hard to be able to configure space platforms to send to different landing pads, but maybe I'm wrong? I also feel like it could be interesting for the other planets you spoke about, to be able to pick and choose much smaller landing pad outposts rather than just one huge blob (which is usually extracted by bots)

I haven't read through everything but here's my idea: Refueling platforms for other ships. Early on self-sufficient factory ships are kinda fun, but they get samey quickly as you mentioned. What if there is a mid-game unlock that lets you offload fuel making to a different planet/asteroid/space platform and you just route your ships there to refuel, where moving ships can reasonably store 3-10 trips worth of fuel? Then you have to improve your refueling center when adding more ships, and each cargo ship can be simpler in design, like trains and fuel production for them.

First of all, I think it's great that you're starting to design your own mod based on your own ideas. Take your time—you want it to turn out well. I really like your idea for the space platforms. In the main game, they just serve as freighters traveling from planet to planet, which is kind of boring. Personally, I’d also like to build my own flying mega-factory that travels through the system while producing stuff. So far, I’ve only come across two mods that implement this idea. The idea of removing the asteroids will certainly be a bit of a challenge, since you’ll now have to haul fuel up from a planet. At this point, you could consider other types of engines that require less fuel, thereby reducing the amount of fuel needed and the necessary rocket launches. My suggestion would be ion and nuclear engines. Ion engines accelerate a small amount of ionized gas using electric fields to generate thrust. Their thrust is very limited, and they require a large amount of electricity. Nuclear engines use nuclear fission to generate a lot of heat. This heat is used, for example, to vaporize liquid hydrogen. The resulting pressure propels the ship. As for everything else, I’m open to being surprised.

I know - 2 max planets and this doesn't neatly fit in to either of them, but it's still a cool idea. A ring planet: 2 orbits: • High orbit (safe) - low to none asteroids, but can't drop or receive any items. • Low orbit (dangerous) - covered with (small, medium) asteroids coming from all directions. It's almost impossible to stay. Challenge: trying to get materials from and to that planet. A player will have to park their vessels in high orbit until: • The surface is ready (i. e. enough rockets are built), • And the ship has enough ammo. Then they will decedent into low orbit, pick/drop items and quickly return. When there is a material shortage on the planet: • Base on the planet sends a signal through radar for a ship to descend. When a ship wants to get items from that planet: • The ship asks if the planet has enough materials, if so it descends and scoops up. (OPTIONAL) • Kinda like in SE, surface defense from the falling meteors. • graphical: 2 crisscross rings, Because it's cool. • Late game: you are capable enough to park in lower orbit. • Late game: you can send nukes to the low orbit, in order to temporarily stop asteroids from coming. Not related at all to this ↑, but including a mod "Heat management" or doing something similar.

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I liked the idea of disabling beacons or making them special in some way. Forcing the player to scale up a bit more so that space is also a resource constraint that can be resolved with more complex alternative recipes using materials from the next/other planets would be cool. This would also tie into the requiriing space logistics thing.

I like a lot of your ideas! Some things I would like, mostly quality of life things: - Beacons: reduce stacking bonus to very little or 0%, make it only accept 1 module but increase its range. - Interplanetary logistics, reduce the number of items required for specific buildings. I don't mean the amount, but the variance. For example: with superconductors from Fulgora you should be able to make almost all of the Fulgora items like Tesla ammo and Electromagnetic plants on any planet. Missing a specific item on a planet and having to wait for it to arrive was a real pain. - Fulgora: You can maybe make recyclers not reduce items to void. Since you already have different types of scrap you can make a challenge around balancing what you collect and reprocess to get rid of it. - Gleba: Make raw fruits and nutrients not spoil. I would love to make a pastable design with unspoilables in and out and feel like I 'solve' a spoilage problem. Also have mutistage spoiling where you need the middle one. - Spoilable interplanetary products can be cool as long as its not science packs. - Aquilo: My favorite as well (after space itself). Not sure what to add but maybe make the planet self-sustainable?

Sounds very interesting! I especially love the ideas for dynamic system solutions - back when Space Age was revealed, I was hoping for a dynamic system for aquilo (akin to Frostpunk) but was disappointed when we got simple static heating. Your 3x3 building idea is something I was certain Wube would have to add vanilla. Near 0°K heat pipes sound brutal! Much higher cost of recovery, incentivizing a very stable heat source, Awesome! Especially interesting to me are: - Worm sensors telling a grid to be shut down (ideally including radars?) - a bit on-the-nose Dune, as the worms already are, but so cool! - Swarm detection turning off collection robots/towers If you have more of these, I would love to see them. It's a great contrast to the otherwise very stable, life of the factory Maybe a few more ideas, not necessarily planet specific and potentially trash, just off the top of my head: - A shrouding system, where dust/fog/cloud obscure vision temporarily: Building is harder because you cannot see well, lights don't help due to volumetric scattering, guns don't aim well, bots fly much slower/can't. Especially for fog/clouds, a defogging system could be a specific building, but also heat sources (raising dew point) so that there is no "single solution" to the problem. Potentially adversaries using this to their strategic advantage. - Gas cluster regions in space, requiring thruster and machine shutoff and "silent" coasting or else inflicting light damage to all parts of the ship accumulating over time, aging the ship fast (no repair robots in space, thus part replacement is the costly alternative to silent running). Potentially around unnamed gas giant. - A "sensor array" building, combining multiple sensors into one sprite/entity to avoid bloat - Less/no drag in space and a requirement to break below a threshold for unloading - god-tier resource on the shattered planet actually encouraging the insane travel there - with god-like useful powers for machines - low-grav planet/moon as a logistics knot; potentially an alternative to rockets: slingshots; with collector arms "harvesting" slingshot items. Allows for high-throughput routing of resources between ships; with orbital exchange being vanilla soon (I think if I remember right), it's probably not so useful anymore. I like the idea of no "home" planet nauvis; though I would like to still be able late game to plaster down large blueprint bricks on top of most planet's smaller obstacles like cliffs or lava channels at scale. So mid-game infrastructure to pave way for the factory on another planet should be possible. Hyped for what's to come!

I love your banter with Raiguard and CG :) Somewhat ordered stream of consciousness QUALITY: - Not random chance but precise machining/advanced materials. Think about stack inserters: you progress from burner to electric to fast to bulk inserter on Nauvis, each one is a straight upgrade to the former, power demand notwithstanding. Then on Gleba you find high quality materials (carbon fiber and exotic lubricant) to make them into stack inserters, which are more of a sidegrade. If instead tungsten carbide was added it might be strong enough to reach three tiles, holmium can make them faster, maybe solar powered. The ultimate inserter made of few different planet materials would be akin to AB adjustable insterters, with all the good stuff from SA. - In the same manner, quality assemblers could be made even faster with things like carbon fiber or holmium, putting them in low temperature environment (Aquilo) provides them with innate productivity bonus to everything etc. Higher tiers of machines should be more bulky, sort of like EM plants or cryo plants: this way upgrading a factory is not made in place (gambling for better items to cover for inefficient designs) but requires redesigning the place with the promise of superior output. SPACE LOGISTICS: - Many items are more bulky, stacking to low numbers (even 1), requiring bigger cargo space. I don't know how to bypass belt weave storage, though. - More spoiling and more restrictive timers. Things like "vulcanium" made in foundry from lava, that cools down on low temperature surfaces and turns to ordinary iron/stone. Cryo materials quickly evaporating on any non-Aquilo planet. Both can be stacked indefinitely in their native evironment, but once removed they need to be processed and moved quickly (see biter eggs). Resulting spoilage has to be useful (iron, stone, water) or just evaporate. - Bulk shipment requirement. Similar to rails in production science or copper ingots for nuclear pasta in Satisfactory: the one item (a science pack maybe?) that requires a huge amount of single type item to be delivered, like, say, EM science pack requiring 1000 calcite per single bottle. Calcite is cheap and easy to obtain but the challenge would be to achieve the throughput required for constant production at reasonable pace. 60 SPM would require 60 000 calcite per minute, not counting productivity. - On the contrary, an item requiring six or more ingredients (if possible) from every planet, similar to quantum processors, but more in demand. This would require frequent or massive shipments from multiple planets. - Longer production chains requiring more items from multiple planets: tungsten and holmium solution alloy mixed with uranium on Nauvis to provide fertilisation of something on Gleba and another thing to produce underwater base on Aquilo, etc. COMBAT: - Automatic enemy detection (Radar signals? Special sensor tower?) to control defences (ammo selection, targeting priorities). Avoiding combat as a viable solution (e.g. distracting/luring Demolishers or powering down bases to reduce aggro from particular natives). - More gradual but extreme enemies, starting from fairly passive to active swarms probing various defences (see: Rampant). Evolution tied to tech progression (see Warp Drive Machine), aggression provoked by other means than pollution (e.g. launching a rocket or tremors done by mining alone); - More enemy types with mixed resistances and vulnerabilities to encourage use of more exotic weaponry (tesla gun/turrets, uranium ammo, robots). Make use of surface conditions to affect turrets (e.g. flamers unusable on Fulgora due to not enough oxygen, but burn longer and more violently in organic rich Gleba atmosphere); - More meaningful energy/polution reduction effects (i.e. Make Efficiency Modules Great). Pollution affecting natives in a different way (some become agressive, other docile with pollution level rising), switching between risks. E.g. demolisher-level, invincible enemies can be repelled by enough pollution but that would cause smaller fauna to attack. NAUVIS: - Island paradise: small, self contained islands separated by vast oceans. Design similar to Aquilo, but islands are larger, landfill is removed from the game or replaced with later foundations or made with other resources, e.g. tungsten. That would require late game logistic to connect islands (farther islands have more resources, uranium not present on initial island), as they are at first unreachable by trains (elevated rails unlocked on Vulcanus/Fulgora). Enemies can be either amphibious (emerging from the sea, initially invincible and undetectable while in deep water) or flying (I don't know about behaviour and pathing problems). Difference from Aquilo being that no outside shipments are required but the player has to use limited resources to escape. To avoid soft-lock, a crude and inefficient recipes to trickle some basic resources from the seawater can be introduced (similar to Seablock but much simpler) as a backup measure. - Wishful feature: oceanic transportation between islands, exploration of ruins (see Space Exploration, finding late-game tech in small amounts in crashed ships), underwater bases. CHALLENGE-ORIENTED DESIGN QUESTIONS - What challenge runs would you like to do in SA? Which are boring or impossible now and why? - What obstacles the mod can throw at the player for it to feel challenging? Some ideas to design around: - Space-only base (no surface level production, only shipments); - Pacifist/eco friendly run (don't engage in combat, actively work to reduce pollution and dissuade attacks);

Ideas for Gleba: Second phase: like codegreen noted more about "spoiling" or fermenting, Gleba could be the liquids planet with creation of juices and fermenting the juice. Having fluid juice could also be the later solution for biochamber "energy". You stop needing to feed the biochamber nutrients and feed it fluid juice instead Make fruits mature maybe add the bacteria to recipes to create slurries. Have some sort of sifter/sedementation machine, useful for creating feedback loops: input fluid 100%, sift and get out product + fluid of 50 which can be used for resupplying the process or used in other recipes.

I would 100% play your overhaul. And an idea. For resources, not sure if this is possible, but maybe rarer ones that are further away, a building that scans and locates them (like a ground scanner in rimworld) so after a certain amount of time it can give you a location or co'ords in the fog. So you have a direction to travel in. Id prefer that to just going in big outward circles.

Gleba: -multiple stages of spoilage. fresh fruit (30 min) -> brown fruit (4min) -> rotten fruit brown fruits for fermentation to alkohol or something. -animals. They begin as biome dependent and through research you gain the ability to simulate their living conditions? Nauvis: -less annoying burner phase. Burner miners have their own integrated belt from which they are able to draw their fuel while passing the rest along the other burners. Also their radius is increased so that there is no moving them. electric miners draw more power and you can research power efficiency for them.

Had this thought while watching the vod on modules and logistics: Either power networks that carry the module effects, probably horrendous for UPS reasons. Or you can only make the beacon juice of a specific type on the phase 2 versions of each planet, then you'd have to haul that in big quantities around the planets to get your desired module effects onto other planets.

Just read through the doc and it already looks sick—can't wait to hopefully play it one day. Only thing that comes to mind is for Nacht: some sort of orbital defense mechanic. Perhaps a type of enemy that can burrow underneath your defenses and pop out in the middle of your base (and wreak havoc), so you need to blast it from space before it's able to do that. I just personally love the idea of orbital space lasers and/or space missiles. Maybe it steps on SE's toes too much, but surely there is still room for innovation in this!

Got a few ideas:

For the idea of flipping spoilage to be a good thing for more recipes: Require an item that is an "intermediate" spoilage product. Item A (useless, long spoil time) briefly turns into B (required for the recipe, short spoil time) but you need to consume it before it turns into product C (useless and/or dangerous). Alternatively, a spoilage loop A->B->C->A... where you need to grab it at the right time.

One of the planets can always be a moon. Weather that's. A new one. Or one of the existing ones Or a moon as an extension one of the planets.

Hey Dosh! Thanks for all the great videos man. Defiantly excited on seeing where this mod might go. I read the doc and it sounds great. I remember when you did your space exploration series you did your retrospective. Are you by chance going to pull any ideas from that? Not that you plan to copy paste that mod, but there are some things think could be taken away from that mod. Just my 2 cents, but I would love seeing some alternate recipes for common intermediates especially on different planets. Not to add bloat, but at least in my opinion it would make sense for the engineer to find alternate ways to make certain items since a planet may be either lacking or have a scarcity of a particular resource. Might make some interesting gameplay to have to change up how certain things are made. Plus I’d love a legitimate reason to actually farm wood lol. I saw as well in other comments and your doc the changes you want to make to space travel, I wholeheartedly agree with most of what I have read. I also saw you still want to keep mobile factories, so maybe having a dedicated asteroid field you have to navigate could make for an interesting premise. Having a moon on one of the planets may also be nice, maybe an intermediate as the engineer learns to operate a platform before going to another planet. Thanks for reading the ramblings of a stunningly average player, and for all the suffering you have done for the entertainment of the community. “This isn’t my mod and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it” -DoshDoshington

To emphasize more intraplanetary logistics, how about products that require manufacturing to be done across multiple planets in sequence. You make the frame on vulcanus, stuff it with mold on gleba, and finally dunk it in the fulgoran ocean to spark it to life, as an example.

Juices on Gleba. Plasma "asteroids" that need laser or bigger ones electric damage to be destroyed. Also maybe you can make trains alternatives to transport ships. Just speed them up fast enough (maybe requires rocket fuel or nuclear fuel) and build a ramp to send it to another planet lol

Dyson Sphere. Obviously it won't be something actively visible (except maybe on the system map?), but you could launch collectors to create a Dyson Swarm then later launch rockets with "supplies" to build the Dyson Sphere itself. The closer it gets to completion, the more power your planet-side hub will generate, but the less light you'll have in game and the less effective solar panels will be. Eventually, it will always be "night" but the hub will generate loads of "free" energy!

I had a simple but maybe hard to implement idea for bootstrapping vulcanus while keeping the threat of the worms alive. Stilted buildings - like a beachside home or something. Could require a shit ton of steel to get going which would require either robust delivery or a good amount of local prod. These buildings would have resistance to the worm as it passes through but not be impervious. Main question is how do you do this graphically. I have no idea.

As for ideas about Gleba maybe something to do with Conways game of life? Probably too annoying to actually do but could be interesting. And as for embracing spoilage, thats basically what fermentation is: ferment fruits into alcohol or acids to use for other processes. Maybe a military use, like a drunk/confusion grenade that makes enemies attack eachother?

For Gleba I am thinking about crossbreeding plants by placing them together to create new plants, maybe selective breeding. You extract dna from it and create bio enhancements for the engineer. Same with the enemies, you catch them, breed them and extract dna. Import biters and genetically modify them to create specialized biters that you can use as cannon fodder in base defence, turrets (worms) or in scouts, distractions, again cannon fodder while attacking. Fulgora would be the planet to add better maglev trains.

More stone byproducts please : )

not sure if you saw my comment in the video but the overflow/underflow valves in Py has flow limit

Skimmed through the doc and the current comments. Lot of good stuff. Im not nearly as creative to have good ideas to contribute but I will be following closely. If I did have to suggest something, I do like the idea of a planet preventing you from bringing in supplies from other planets until you can do so later (Cerys mod). It just seemed kinda meh to me to brute forcing solutions instead of engaging with the planet mechanic. Maybe have that as an optional thing for those that hate that mechanic.

cooled storage to reduce spoilage would make gleba playable for me. it genuinely has filtered 4 of my runs cuz i just don't want to deal with it. heck, aquilo could even be used to upgrade your fridge

replace gleba with planet "shmleba" to help reduce same-y ness.

I’m not sure if this is attainable or not, but what if the goal was to use all the technology from the previous planets to restore or “un-shatter” the shattered plant and terraform it to create an oasis? This could be a two stage planet as well. First to “un-shatter” and second to terraform. This would work as a final goal such that everything is leading up to a place where the factory no longer needs to grow, as long as your previous factories continue to provide the necessary resources to the shattered oasis, and perhaps let people have a place to restart civilization in this solar system since everything else on the other planets was lost.

YEAH MORE TRAINS

I’d be stoked for this, especially if each planet unlocks parts of each other. Ideas in that vein: Vulc: LOVE the patrolling worms. It’d be like a natural train that could run you over if afk. Gleba fruit baits worms to redirect the patrols, needing constant interplanetary supply. Fulg tech could unlock a worm harness to ride them into volcanoes/past lava. Nacht could unlock worm killing. Gleb: Nacht could unlock anti stomper defenses or let you kill the mother pentapod. Aquillo could unlock refrigeration to slow otherwise unscalably fast spoiling products. Vulc’s molten metal in a flamethrower could create platform landfill or make the bush around the glebhole passable. Aquilo: gleb fruits superfreeze into new materials. Fulg artifacts convince local brains to unlock techs. Nacht’s unlocked walls could enclose drainable areas to get at seafloor. Phantasma’s possessed mobs can dive for resources. Nacht: unlock enemy detectors for vulc. Gunge is required for gleb overgrowth soil. Overheating system is constant system damage from quakes and shrapnel - pipes are for repair nanites you unlock on fulg. Unlock lights for better weapon accuracy (aka efficiency) - different colors for different enemies. Phantasma: ghosts & demons! Unlocks fear to pacify/drive away mobs on other planets with constant resource supply. Fulg tech harnesses souls for power. Imported pentapod/biter eggs get possessed and can be given schedules like trackless trains. Can go to other planets, but spoil to violence unless fed a phantasma resource. Could we start on non-nauvis planets? I’ll stop here so it’s not MORE of a wall of text. 😅

Make the shattered planet tiny. Like 100 tiles max

I'd like to suggest different route features that have different logistical challenges Like a route that slows your ship down so you need a faster ship that consumes more fuel to really make it through Or one that passively damages ship components so you have to constantly manufacture repair packs along the way A route that has a resource that you can only get in it, like promethium but ideally with a more sensible stack size, or one that has the conditions for a particular crafting recipe, and only in the middle of the route Ideally a thing that takes advantage of 2.1 platform trading, routes requiring (or incentivizing) specialized ships, reaching the end of their route and trading away their goods for the next leg of the trip Gleba could have stable products made from spoilables that become spoilable again when processed, the player has to control when those stable products have to be processed again. Maybe also techs and containers that increase the spoil time or slow the spoil timer while not completely eliminating it Aging could also be a concept, letting things age enough until they're usable in recipes, including containers that accelerate spoilage as well, but not allowing them to become spoilage, these things could have a very narrow margin of usability, like 60 seconds before they spoil (Ideally, the original entity has a relatively long spoilage time, "spoiling" into the ripe/usable version of itself then actually becoming spoilage quickly)

You mentioned the idea of planet-wide beacons, the idea of returning to the planet later in the game and the idea of buildings being eventually universal. I think that combines perfectly. There could be a mega-building, maybe done in stages, probably different for every planet, like say a atmosphere dryer for gleba, that gave massive boosts and unlocked specific types of buildings, while locking others, letting you come back to a planet after several others and deciding on its entirety what it can do. For the player freedom thing, you could also choose to (up to a point) do all the modifications for a certain planet, and having that be exponentially expensive, forcing the player into a lot of space logístics or grinding. Itried to keep it short, don't know if I succeeded.

While most of the ideas feel like they could work, I'm worried that the mod will feel a bit all over the place. To me it reads like a modpack rather than an overhaul. Actually it would go kinda hard as a modpack.

If you really want to double down on modules affecting modules, efficiency makes modules increase power draw lower, speed is a flat percentage on effects (prod bar goes up faster etc) and prod increases the number of 'free' items.

Replayability could have optional planetary products that could make new more efficient recipes. Fun math to figure out the RoI required to make it worth it from a logistics process where those breakpoints of worth sending a ship. If multiple products on a planet that makes that math more funner for player if that is your definition of a fun night.

Something that actually makes farming fish and wood on nauvis useful.

I have three ideas that I would love to see implemented personally. Tried to be as brisk as possible. ————————— Orbital routes or better engines - Researchable orbital mechanics for better routes between planets as you gain new science packs, or different types of engines like chemical engines, ion, or even ‘impulse’ engines that use miniature nuclear bombs to propel themselves(real nasa engine look it up, very Factorio esq) ———————————— Nacth - Radiation mechanic during the day. The entire planet has been stripped by cosmic radiation(reason why enemies go under ground during day). So instead of heat pipes you have ‘radiation shielding’ either a module you have to put onto a building or something akin to walls that you have to surround your base/factories in. You can even start with walls or mounds of nacth-surface material then researching higher levels of radiation shielding. Or you can use a lesser version of spage coolant, but you would have to extend that mechanic to vulcanus. I would love to see the spaghetti mess that comes out from this and franticly trying to combat the enemies. ———————————- Signals and satellites - For communication between planets you need to create signal infrastructure. So you have to launch rockets more inline with vanilla Factorio, sending satellites/probes to get low-blank(planet name) orbit data or otherwise allowing you to ‘analyze’ the specific conditions of a planet then research the ‘landing’ technology. Later on these satellites can be upgraded for all manner of QOL things maybe extending radar ranges or so that you can send circuit data between planets or space platforms, maybe even something with mapping planets or extending roboport ranges. I am a satcom technician so this is what I would like to see implemented personally as it could add that feeling of ‘wow I’m exploring space!’.

I thought the cave idea in the Warp Drive Machine mod was a really interesting exploration tool that could be used more. For a Phase 2 Gleba, maybe adding a rare biome that is sort of like those caves but instead is a hyper dense fungal forest that is completely impenetrable in Phase 1, but you get the ability to explore it in little unlockable chunks in Phase 2. Each area requires you blasting through fungal forest walls and the moment you do there's both new resources but also a huge wave of enemies, maybe unique enemies. Then you have to drag belts into it, spaghetti your way through it to the resources, and then back to the surface, where it loads onto a train to get it all the way back to your base. In the end they may basically just function as mining outposts but they take more work to set up and are a sort of mid/late game personal equipment power check. I kind of like the idea of it providing two infinite, but production limited resources. A liquid and a material, like Biomechanical crystals and Ichor. Both are the foundation for new Phase 2 production, and you only need to open more of them as you want to expand production.

I know you said smaller ships. But I think having to deal with heat in space like the opposite of Aquilo makes sense. Heat radiates very slowly in a vacuum, so use heat pipes and exchangers to remove heat from thrusters. Vent steam into turbines for power. Or behind the ship for added thrust. I would also like to see more uses for heat. Maybe have a smeltery set up that exchanges heat into copper ( or lead or some other "low" melting point material) for molten copper To be pumped to molds for plates. Like smaller energy efficient foundery. Or ship defenses: Short range burst of heated gasses to blow new, fast, and dangerous micro meteors away from ship, or just slow them down to not be as dangerous. I want more uses for heat, a new logic puzzle.

Random little easter eggs about Factorio and it's community. I like easter eggs

I like the idea that Nacht could potentially be a lite version of your experience in Rampant Mod 2. A lot of Darkness, necessitating the use of Light to help traverse. I actually think that planet could be designed with the intent of being in a constant state of Night, similar to that of your Rampant 2 experience. It would really add to the Combat and always needing to be on your toes. Phantasma on the other hand, with the name chosen, it speaks to be as a Planet that is constantly changing or has illusionary states on some of it's assets. In Palworld, there are Materials in the endgame area that can only be accessed with specific items/passives, otherwise you phase right through them. Perhaps something like that could be implemented with its planet's resources?

Hey Dosh Would love the following in mod: -- Some existing modded planets are already incredibly thought-out and unique. More of that would be nice. -- A final challenge or objective that is something so expensive and rediculuos that obtaining it feels less like a research but more like it steals your soul from real life. The factory Built prior should look like a tutorial before that goal. -- The existing research tree has become somewhat predictable. Add research that is extremely difficult to obtain, but gives you something completely absurd for actually doing it or it turns out to be Compeletely useless. --- Powerful research that changes the planet permanently. No undo button. You should suffer for a decision that u made 40 hr earlier. -- Something that produces an insane amount of resources but consumes absurd quantities of something else. New bottleneck challenges. -- Biter and volcan worms and glebba spiders are very powerfull at start to fight. You can postpone attacks by bribing the local hive with increasingly valuable resources. At first they want stone. Then iron. Then uranium. Eventually they request something you haven't even invented yet. And now u take up to the arms and protect ur diginity that you sold earlier.

I know a part of the argument against trains was 4x stacked Green belts being way too strong - what if they used power that scaled exponentially on length?

Really like the ideas on the planets. Can we have bridges that go over the worm runs? I'd love for a late tech would be some means of using them as a very slow but high capacity cargo tech... But then I have no idea how or why that would useful unless they were the only way of conveying materials from some of your volcano islands. You wouldn't get a choice of their route, so you'd need to set up interchange to drop off/pick up things off them as they passed. On fulgora you could remove the water and require a space station/ foraging ships to blast down frozen asteroids to the planet. Though I suppose adding water to a planet without it at industrial scales would begin to change the atmosphere... On your sand planet, maybe a specialist building that dissembles buildings periodically, desands them, uses lots of lube, then places them back into the logistics network to be rebuilt. You start off manually doing this, then eventually bots handle it. Or make cliffs unkillable and very aggressively placed to force people into have tiny output dotted around that each have to resupplied by a ammo/ fuel train. Sandstorms reduce laser and solar efficiency to nothing so you need little generators at each mini outpost. Make fuel a valuable commodity or biters will abduct biters flying at night. Lots of interesting stuff that could be done. On trains being required, you could state ores have a set purity and then require further repeat and energy intensive purification/produces lots of slag as a byproduct to be dealt with. Exploration allows for better purity mines/patches at the cost of trains but someone could just brute force it as well. Small mines with high purity so lots of little outposts are needed rather than a mega one.

If you want to minimize beacons' impact on making players rebuild things, then SE's wide-area beacons with a limit of 1 beacon per building would be great. Maybe make the beacon use more power proportionally depending on how many buildings it's affecting. I like the idea of beacons only boosting the modules already in the machines, rather than containing any modules of their own. An increased focus on interplanetary logistics sounds like a great idea. Vanilla got a little taste of it at the very end with Aquilo, but it feels like there's more there to explore. Using standard ores on Vulcanus would be a bit of a drag, since getting all your resources from lava is kind of the whole fun part. I'd prefer lava processing initially, but then a more complex lava processing later on (maybe requiring resources imported from another planet) for a wider variety / larger quantity of resources out, kind of like basic/advanced oil processing in vanilla. You could use fluid temperatures to have hotter lava that makes the recipes take less time, but have both the basic/advanced recipes work with any temperature for maximum flexibility. I'd be interested in a Gleba second phase that leans harder into requiring items to spoil, similar to how the iron/copper bacteria work in vanilla but with a bit more complexity. Maybe you have an item that spoils in three phases, starting out useless, then spoiling into something useful, which itself spoils into something useless again (e.g. spoilage). If you're going to make the Shattered Planet landable and required, I'd really hope either we get stronger military or an easier route to the planet. Spaceship design is hard and expensive, and I'd personally prefer to be able to throw powerful tech at the problem instead of being forced to make a gigantic ship. As a random suggestion, maybe Phantasma could have a day/night cycle mechanic, where some buildings only work during the day and others only at night. Your whole factory would have to build up buffers during one phase to be able to work through the other without running dry. You could even have recipes or ore patches that give different outputs depending on the time of day (if such a thing is technically feasible).

I'd be happy to assist as a technical consultant, as well as offer pYPostProcessing as a general library and helper. It's perfect for overhauls, if thats not evident. Also, I can offer autotech, our in-house solution for generating tech tree dependencies and checking viability. It works perfectly for Space Age, and even with scripted mechanics it works well. If either have compatibility issues (doubtful but possible) I can look into them.

The idea of factory-in-space is amazing but vanilla SA largely presents you with the same challenge to solve throughout - make power, make fuel, make ammo, and cram all your turrets and collectors at the front. Making all that compact was a fun challenge the first time, but got old quick in my playthroughs; even promethium ships mostly boil down to those things. 2.1 platform transfers and your velocity rebalancing ideas will help diversify the ships. What I'd also love to see is a more diversified set of challenges in space. What if some space connections were safer but devoid of basic resources, and others have you navigating through an even-deadlier asteroid field? What if there were alternative ways of gathering materials or defending your ship in space, with their pros and cons? Hopefully this was succinct enough - good luck on the mod Dosh!

Hi Dosh, would love to see a modpack of your making and not something we, your subscriber, forced upon you. Here are my ideas in a nutshell: - More interactivity between planets. Aquilo lets you craft freezers that stop/slow down spoilage of Gleba science in transport. Capture eggs from Gleba, ship them to vulkanus and use the animals as live bait to lure a demolisher away. Gleba plants that needs a different environment to grow or create hybrid plants with more yield. - More use for spoilage. Currently spoilage is a bad thing. Either it reduce science gained or freshness of your crafted intermediate. Why not use it to ferment juices? Make alcohol or fertilizer out of the products. Enable some kind of revitalization? Blast a plant with some steam

Nacht explanation for overheating: Radiation. Also explains why the natives are so scary. For exploration, I love the warptorio random loot chest type stuff, where exploration rewards you. I think they should be defended by biters or whatever though, so you can't just motor around and grab them risk free.

I don't remember if anyone said anything on the live stream and I don't know if what I'm about to say is original. What if the quality mechanic wasn't luck-based but interested required a more complex recipe for what you want to craft (for example, if you want a legendary quality assembling machine 3, you would have to add some extra mid to late game item to the recipe or require a higher amount of material's) and the only way to unlock this new recipe should be to put the quality mojules on your assemblers and this way the player has to interact with this mechanic by changing his factory to meet the new demand for the recipes.

Love the idea! But please don't do the thing were early game is dragged out. IR3 was a good thing, it gave a lot of cool early game features to use.

Amazing Ideas and Exciting stuff. A lot covered. My Ideas into the pot are few and probably bad however: -Fridge. let me use ammonia as Freon to extend spoilage timers. -Fuel cost for weight rocket: no need to get rocket equation level but if I want to launch 4 tons of items to a platform I should have to insert maybe a cubed ratio equivalent of fuel to get it to space. -higher train stacks: if every slot could hold 10x the qty in a train than anywhere else it would definitely make far more encouraging to train the resource in by bulk -Space train. with platform to platform logistics why not make a space station large enough to need a train...a space train... That's all I got for now. Would love to help in any way.

Speaking of ideas and multi-phase approach, two main things I would love to see: 1. More interconnected recipes. Something produced on one planet can make another planet’s alternative recipe much more efficient. Also byproducts: player can choose to toss it away or ship to another planet to refine and make some use. 2. This makes the order of visiting planets important. Like landing on Vulcanus gives you radiators and coolant recipe, that can then be used on Fulgora for more efficient metal casting from scrap, but Fulgoras power management research can make your Vulcanus calcite situation much better.

Had an idea while reading about Gleba. With the planetary logistics in mind you could have spoilage stop entirely on cold planets and accelerated spoilage on hotter ones, perhaps with better and worse production based on temperature, shipping spoilable products into space prevents spoil but reduces effectiveness or something. Just an idea.

With a name like phantasma the first thing that comes to mind is ghosts. Maybe a reversal of vulcanus. Where ghosts with paths roam around the planet but instead of avoiding them, you build onto the paths and as the ghosts pass through buildings they power them or produce resources. With paths being wobbly this would force a very spaghetti approach to the planet.

I may be a goofy ahh cornball myself but I have a list of ideas myself which I think I could pitch to you lol

Would honestly be cool if you could encourage self-building space platforms somehow. Right now, it's just a sort-of niche thing you can do (there's plenty of iron/copper to make more platforms) but it would be cool if you could maybe require materials on the platform to make cargo pods, since launching up rockets is still expensive but launching down is currently free.

I like the new planets for sure, I think changing up the logistics for the new planets would be interesting like how with aquilo you are centered around heats pipe to keep your base from freezing over. I think introducing a low gravity planet would be interesting, forcing you into a pipe/pump based base or something similar. I also like the thought of a war world, where you are always in a constant state of attrition with the natives, kind of like the Rampant mod, maybe it can delve a bit into the remnants of the Fulgora ruins, as a sort of 'ruined planet' overrun by a constant stream of rampant AI. With regards to the 1x1 buildings, I think implementing them like the modules in space engineers would be a good solution, though some balancing would definitely need to be done for the productivity and speed aspects. EDIT: Can you also do a hotfix for the hot liquids on Aquilo still having the pipes frozen? Thanks!

Personally I'm not all that interested in making spaceship design even more compact (because that doesn't show well on camera: it's too fiddly and the end result is just a compact mess that doesn't demonstrate the design choices clearly) but the rest sounds great, especially the part about making planet progression happen in a more interconnected way instead of One Planet, One Stage. I agree about the arbitrary Space Age restrictions, as long as the overall difficulty is buffed to compensate for making it easier by taking arbitrary restrictions away. It would be cool if it were possible to automate a system to distract Vulcanus worms in a cycle so they avoid your real stuff, like in Dune.

Damn, looks like I need to rush the Krastorio Spaced Out run.

Love the ideas outlined in the document so far. Quick thought on removing quality: If that is done, and in light of your Fulgora Shattered Planet run, maybe a general, later-game-oriented "Building HP" research could be included, in order to make your things a bit more resilient?

I still kinda think streams should be hosted on a second channel to avoid saturation. Maybe a temp announcement video on the main for the duration of the stream.

We love you dosh. That is all