MP Watch Party: "The Goop Lab"
For this month's bonus episode, we assigned each other some homework. As years-long Gwyneth obsessives, we've always been curious about the content of her Netflix show, "The Goop Lab." It's advertised as a kind of Consumer Reports for woo-woo health treatments, a quasi-reality show where Goop staffers try to figure out whether energy healing, juice cleanses and vampire facials work as well as their boosters (and, in many cases, Goop's own website) say they do.
So we decided to watch a few episodes and report back! Here's the conversation we had afterwards.
You can play the episode directly through Patreon or use our RSS feed to add it to your podcast app. Here are the instructions from Patreon. And as ever, if you've got future bonus episodes you'd like to see, drop those in the comments here.
See you next month!
M&A
Comments (192)
Thank you for always calling out the ableism! Started listening for my ED recovery, stayed because this has become such a safe space after becoming disabled and chronically ill.
Thank you for another amazing episode! I’m super curious your guys thoughts on The Telepathy Tapes if you ever listen to/watch it
Again listening to this way late but I am FURIOUS with Michael for sandbagging Aubrey’s excellent Hannibal joke
I'm watching the medium episode and I cannot get over how much the researcher looks like kate mckinnon doing a character
I am in the beauty/wellness industry, and it is shocking at how many nonsensical magic treatments and cures are out there. Please know that there are many legitimate treatments and products, but they aren't necessarily sexy of make someone feel like they have the inside track. The MLM huns shill a hundred nonsense cures in the form of oils, powders, pills and shakes, and people just eat it up. There was a recent episode of AHS Stories "facelift" that opens with the amazing Judith Light dabbing her face with her fresh urine that she had collected in a jar. I immediately thought that legit 45% if my clients would be trying that!
WTF, her own urine?!?!?
I loved the Pete Evans Part 1, can't wait for Part 2. I had a rheumatologist put me on the Paleo diet, claiming that 80% of her patients were helped by it. I stayed on for 3 months (that's how long she said it would take for all the toxins to leave my body). I felt awful the entire time. I did lose weight. As one of my friends said, "You lose weight on the Paleo diet because after a week you lose the will to eat." BTW, I never went back to that doctor.
Wow. It’s upsetting to learn that a rheumatologist told you you needed “toxins” to leave your body. That’s about as medically sound as saying “you’ll need to stay on it for 3 months for all the evil spirits to get out of your soul” (although if evil spirits were real, I’m sure a paleo diet would very effectively make them decide they’re not interested in hanging out in a body anymore).
I was scrolling IG the other day and the algorithm thought I needed to see a Goop-adjacent post about how the Flexner Report is ruining us all ... The caption seemed like a mish-mash of both real and imagined ills stemming from that report but it was the first time I'd heard of it and there does seem to have been some truly wild shit in there ... #futuredeepdive?
When I am sad, I think of the line "get as many concessions out of Gwyneth as you can," and it makes me happy again
My grandmother was a “psychic” in a traveling carnival after running away as a child. She couldn’t read beyond 2nd grade level but new how to read people. Sometimes she would even pick pocket people & then use the information she gained from whatever trinkets they had to impress them.
Just wanted to contribute that needling has some dermatological legitimacy. It is used to stimulate collagen formation. Not advocating it ... never encountered the sewing though
Aubrey's giggles are so infectious! I love it so much when she laughs, makes me chuckle.
Psychics and Mediums have always seemed like just another type of grifter to me. I mean, if you like your psychic, you can keep your psychic, but most of them just seem predatory to me.
Has the May ep dropped yet?
I just rememberd this weird thing from the '90s and it would be great if you can at some point do an episode on Susan Powter and "stop the insanity"
Omg my mum had all the Susan Powter stuff. I second this!
Could you please, please, please do an episode on Bright Line Eating and Dr. Susan Peirce Thompson? PLEASE! She is a neuroscientist who has written a book "Bright Line Eating" where she argues that in order to be "happy, thin, and free" you have to weigh all your food, only eat three times a day in exact quantities, and cannot have anything with any flour or sugar EVER. I think it would be an amazing bunny hole. She is very adamant that food addiction is real and she used to teach college courses at a local college near Rochester NY. She still lives there and now runs what she calls Bright Line Eating bootcamps.
Would love a diet book spectacular about “French Women Don’t Get Fat ®” (yes, the author has registered a trademark for the title lol/sob). Thanks for all your hard work on the show! ❤️
For some reason I always thought this was written by the same author as French Kids Eat Everything, which was part of my deep dive into mom-shaming and food guilt culture as a new parent. It's not, but probably could be. Ugh.
Would love to hear a whole episode about the cabbage soup diet! Apparently my father-in-law did it back in the day, my husband was truly gobsmacked to hear it referenced in a previous episode (we're Canadian for those mapping the cabbage soup distribution).
The calorie ep made me think about how one thing I’ve seen that is supposed to be why Americans (no idea if this applies elsewhere) have gained weight more than previous generations is that our body temps tend to be lower than they used to be so are burning less calories. Is this even true? I came across this info once we were taking temps more for covid and tried to determine “fever”.
I would love an episode about the dark side of weight loss surgery. It's lauded as such a great thing, but I also know that there is another side - addiction, malnutrition, weight regain, even death, that isn't talked about much. I almost had gastric sleeve surgery, but I found out that I was pregnant right after I scheduled a consult appointment. Since then I have discovered the world of fat liberation (through the gateway of "body positivity") and am so thankful I didn't go through with it. But I still sometimes wish I were smaller...
I had gastric sleeve four years ago and, let me tell you, I have some THOUGHTS and FEELINGS. Mostly rage. The fact that the medical establishment is A-OK with removing all or parts of very vital organs to make people possibly thinner when they know the risks of it... The sheer hatred of fat people is just breathtaking.
I'd love to hear an episode about the various TLC shows related to weight AND ALSO ESPECIALLY "I Am Jazz" and the focus and reactions to her body/weight. Or (RuPaul's) Drag Race and the difference in how larger bodies are judged. The intersection of fat and queerness isn't talked about enough despite the queer community's massive fatphobia.
I've seen a few early episodes of I Am Jazz, but didn't keep up with it. I'm curious, are you suggesting the show because it is critical of her body or does it address fatphobia?
You guys should do an episode on wegovy and other weight loss injections 💉 my mom just started on them and I'm so concerned 😥
Can you do an episode on sketchers shape-ups or the fit flop ?
The vampire facial description had me steaming. If you want to get one fine whatever. But I’m curious how many people who get vampire facials also donate plasma? I have a neurological disorder that requires me to get a plasma infusions every 1 to 3 weeks. The plasma keeps me up and walking but I don’t think it’s making me look any younger. Verdict is still out though. Lol Btw, if anyone reading this is able please DONATE YOUR PLASMA. The US government recently changed laws and are no longer allowing people to cross the border to donate. This has caused a plasma shortage and is making some people with chronic illness very nervous. We could use your help! Thank you!
Where do I donate
Episodes I'd like to see someday, in no particular order! - A full episode on Noom - An objective, unbiased episode on the things that *are* effective for weight loss and what you think of them (bariatric surgery and GLP inhibitors like semaglutide). I wouldn't want it to be like "EW YOU SEW YOUR STOMACH SMALLER," but more like "here is the non-bullshit about weight loss, vs all the bullshit we talk about and debunk." It would also be nice to know if any of the positive statistics we see about medical interventions like these are wrong or particularly spot-on reliable. - PCOS, Prader-Willi syndrome, and other diseases that make people fat and are basically immune to lots of medical intervention - The truth about pharmaceuticals causing weight gain and whether pollution does as well. There's lots of bullshit research out there, and I'd like to know the answer to "doctors say antidepressants don't cause weight gain but anecdata says they do" and such. - Where 10,000 steps a day came from (I think it was some Japanese thing?) and what level of motion per day is healthy vs neurotic/overkill - Lots of weight loss advice boils down to "walk slightly more by making your life inconvenient," like only taking stairs or parking super far from stores. Does that actually have any grounding in reality, or do body mechanisms adjust and make it pointless? Is modern "driving culture" actually making us fat? - Is "set point theory" valid? - The shady side of bodybuilding and the awful consequences of getting to single digit percent body fat - The "heroin chic" models of the 90's and how we got to where we are with the absurd skinniness standards for clothing models - Why are we getting fatter as a society, in America? What is the actual reason? There are a grillion arguments, between stuff like pollution, driving, portion sizes, hyperpalatable foods, whatever. What's the actual truth?
Yes, what a great list! I, too, would love a deep dive into the correlation between Rx drugs and weight gain (birth control, antidepressants, et al) and the absolutely awful "heroin chic" period. I feel lucky that I was young enough to have missed most of that, but I still associate that era with that godawful Kate Moss quote: "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels"
Episode topic requests: YES PLEASE on fluoridated water & MH's hatred of Elon Musk 😁
Hi Mike and Aubrey, love the show. I am curious about y’all’s take on groups like overeaters anonymous? Is there a legitimate circumstance in which someone’s eating behaviors deserve an addiction approach or is this also just anti fat bias etc? I have mixed feelings and Id love your thoughts.
I don’t know if anyone has asked for this, but I am verrryy interested in an episode of Whole30. I will be the first to say that it changed my life and my relationship with food for the better, they’ve softened their hard-line stance on the “rules” in the past few years, and they’re very clear that it can be triggering for people with a history of eating disorders. Also the founder (Melissa) is a very progressive person, and overall the community and program is pretty positive. But being a person who gets really anxious about food especially “good vs. bad” food, I’d love to hear someone break down the effect of orthorexia and food anxiety that can come about from such a strict protocol, even if it is mainly geared toward health and wellness and ultimately a healthy relationship with food, and not about weight loss. Though let’s be honest, people use Whole30 for weight loss all the time.
Seconded! I had a roommate on whole 30 and it was so self-contradictory - "eat like your grandparents" but also riced cauliflower and bullet proof coffee....yeah no my grandparents ate whatever they could scrape together in the depression and WW2 then processed food, meat, and alcohol the 50s on.
Love these takedown episodes. Could you do another one on Goop and it’s inception? I love the master cleanse, celery juice, and moon juice episodes. I also was quite shocked at how extensively people think these products work. I’m clearly not on the internet and keeping up enough.
“They call that one a Hannibal” 😂😂😂
Would you ever be willing to release your entire unedited conversations? Id love to hear all the little details and side stories!
I hope you do another on all the episodes from it! That’d be very fun!
Love the episode--maybe somebody has already said this, but the "thread in face" thing reminded me of norther native cultures in North America? I'm not very familiar with the practice, but I'm certain I read somewhere that threading the face with a needle is how Inuit women gain their face tattoos. I'd love to hear an episode with a Native guest to hear more about Goop and others borrowing(stealing) from indigenous cultures or otherwise using natives as a shorthand for "mystical" etc.
What is it going to take to get you guys up to a weekly production schedule and where can I send the check?
I’m only 15 minutes into the new episode but I can’t wait to hear how a person can control what another adult eats without them knowing. Can’t he just get more food when he’s still hungry?
You would think, right? Apparently her husband didn't know his way around the kitchen. Literally. Mike asks, "Was this 1937?" and I'm here to testify that the 80s were still a stew of toxic gender roles. Women in heterosexual relationships commonly did all the meal planning, marketing, food prep, and cleanup (and of course were judged for their choices). Sure, Suzy Kalter's MO is disturbing, but she's just a symptom of deeper ills.
Can we please get a mini-episode that's just Michael and Aubrey laughing?! I seriously rewind sometimes just so I can hear the epic laughter over and over. You two have different laughs for every type of reaction: horrified, shocked, hilarious, mystified, ridiculous... So awesome
All the skinniness in the world, and the grim reaper still calls...
I kinda feel bad about my reaction to today's MP episode. Suzy Kalter just wants her husband/captive to live to 65, and then she goes and dies at 64.
I looked that up, too. : ( Apparently, they stayed together until his death at age 61.
Can we get a diet book deep dive of Dr. Phil's diet book?
Whaaaat
Aren’t we due for an episode this week? I’ve been listening to Rachel Wiley poetry reels on Facebook… thought I might find some like-minded folks in the comments, but was incredibly disappointed. Now I’m so triggered! I need some Aubrey and Michael banter to help me simmer down!
They both had covid!
This is a message for Aubrey! I read your book. I’m a fat person (small fat getting progressively bigger). I got so angry reading your in public that I genuinely had to sit down. I want to know how you channel the anger on the daily!
"there's no I.... In team" AUBREY 🤣😂🤣
Mike - I can’t message you on Twitter because I’m private. But PLEASE can we have a bonus ep exploring how unhinged British journalism is?? I’m in the UK and your tweets are the only thing that make any sense x
I would love to hear what both of you think about people using other cultures or other times to say that fat people are/were respected in that context, seems like often as an excuse for why thin people don’t need to take action here and now. People often make comments about the Renaissance which I find weird, or about non-white cultures. It’s often posed as an empowering statement but I would love to hear especially Aubrey’s thoughts on what lies underneath these statements as they just feel weird to me. And thank you both for the wonderful work you do!
Amy, I'm curious.... What class did you need to write a paper on Gary Young? My mom still worships him 🙄
This is a great episode - why is this not on the “main” podcast? Oprah is regularly roasted and Goop is equally as detrimental to public health
Re: people who do or don't believe in psychics not changing their minds: my experience is different because I was ready to change my mind. John Edward(s?) was my gateway out of formal religion. I was becoming disillusioned with Christianity and was looking for something deeper, and fell for exactly the kind of cold reading you described. (Moved on to full agnostic/atheist now FWIW.)
“It’s just sort of a mirror you just get to see your beliefs reflected back at you” Aubrey said it best for those in the comments arguing at each other. No amount of evidence or proof is going to change anyones minds!!!! One way or the other. 🥺
Aubrey "There are 39 year olds with terrible liver function" Me "Holy shit, Aubrey Gordon just gave a shoutout to my disabled ass 😎"
Ugh just saw this trending today… https://t.co/1iB7BqGmjX
I humbly request a part 2 because I need your reactions to the bee sting nonsense.
Everything inside my pelvis wanted to abandon my body when you talked about sewing faces. 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢love u anyway.
Yoooo
I literally walked into a doorframe when I panicked after you described the thread facial. That’s gonna haunt me for weeks. Young hot 23 year old white women will literally get their faces sewed to stave off aging rather than go to therapy
I’ve seen something like the thread facial, but it was at a kink party, so I don’t think it had the same purpose. 🤣
Just saw the update on Insta that Mike and Aubrey are both sick. Bummer! However.... I thought they both lived in the Pacific North West? 😆
I took from this that each episode discussed had goop staffers involved in each “case study”, and clearly there is a benefit to these staffers promoting their company and these ideas. It would only be to their benefit so there would never be a negative critique or skepticism given to these concepts. Blahhhh
The comment made about these wellness companies selling virtue really struck me. My mother has really been sucked in by every snake oil salesmen ever (it feels like it anyway). The biggest grifter in my opinion was D. Gary Young of young living oils. She always told me that they were only about helping people, therefore we can trust everything they claim. Which is such BS because they were a business!!! Their job is to make money!! Also we really need an episode on D. Gary Young or essential oils generally.
Agree that these grifters who sell virtue along with an "all about helping people" message are magnetic for some. I've got a cousin who's been sucked deep into the carnivore world via the "Peak Human" podcast. She keeps telling me how the host is doing so much to help humanity, but he actually owns a company that sells meat and meat products, which means that his podcast is essentially an infomercial!
It makes me so fucking happy that I hate watched this show a while back and I cannot remember a single fucking thing you all are talking about. My brain just poured the whole thing out like so much sour milk. Golden.
Mikes comment about knee pain after 30 really helped to talk myself out of my self diagnosed arthritis. 🥰
goop is just such a strange name
PLEASE do an episode on the “performative French fry eating” in Gilmore girls!! Two thin white women eating take out/diner food/pop tarts every day and no one ever worrying about their health… but then having the fantastic fat character of Sookie! Bonus if you can get the Gilmore Guys podcast guys on!
Me too!! Keen bean!! ♥️
Looking forward to an episode about NOOM. 😘
I would love to see how Mike's "biological age" increased after watching this episode of goop
This is funny to listen to because I just binge watched Life After Death with Tyler Henry who is a Medium. I am always curious with shows like this about editing: because Tyler uses scribbling as a sort of fidget/dowsing tool, you can tell by the sudden non-continuity of what’s on the page that there were quite a few things he said or did that didn’t make it into the final cut, which means there was probably a lot of “no….. that doesn’t have context for me” I love that Michael called out the selective editing of which participants’ works or experiences made it into the show That said, I do believe Mediumship can be real and folks like Tyler Henry are tuning into something (ghosts, ancestors, guides, micro expressions, the Jungian superconsciousness, the Tao). As with everything, look for over-exaggerated claims of success* and people demanding money to solve problems they told you that you have. *Honestly this happens everywhere. I remember when a local skateboarding club signed up to be the half-time show for Rose City Rollers roller derby and OMG they were Not Skilled. I think the rush from nailing a move erases all the times you aren’t making it and then inflates your sense of ability….. until you flip it and can only see your failures. 🙃😂
I am tempted to delete this comment because I don’t want to be harassed by Rebecca Stropoli. The amount of derisive language about other people’s lived experience and black/white thinking about this is a little too intense. And yet instead of deleting it, I’m going to say that I think mediumship is a real part of the human experience and also humans “have their quota” [Hannah Gadsby, Douglas] of scammers and people who inflate their abilities. I believe there is “life” after death and mediumship is real because after my husband died in November 2021, I had a dream unlike any other dream, where I knew it was a lucid dream when none of mine are lucid, where I knew it was his spirit and not my mind’s schema/simulacrum of him, and he gave me information in a way that was not directly applicable but it basically “rhymed” with the correct piece of information: the cadence and phrasing for which password of 10 was the correct password to someone else’s account on his computer (she was there giving consent to try them); it happened that I was using a new keyboard and had typed it in incorrectly and so would have skipped it and moved on not knowing but the “rhyme” made me try again with more care and it was the one that then allowed me to sequentially unlock 5 more of his devices… and thereby access the photos he took and a record of his artistic gaze and his important memories, his business correspondence with contracts that I need evidence of, and eventually access to his password manager. I have a model for what I think experience outside of Life is, and I don’t think anything he did or said or emanated would have confirmed or denied my model other than prior to this dream I wouldn’t have even expected his Him-ness to persist and then it turns out it did, and I don’t think that was the point of his visit. I, as a bereaved person struggling with his estate and learning how to live without him, do not give even one shit about whether the Christian God or the Hindu reincarnation is the real deal and whatever Rebecca has been insisting is the thing the dead “should” be telling the living. I care very deeply that his love for me is real and that he knows I love him still, that he is safe and without pain, and that he was able to help me with a problem he caused. And the impression I got from him is that once you’re dead, you truly don’t give a fuck about philosophy and arguments over religion. Once you fully cross over into being dead, you can let go of suffering and conflict and pain, and the arguments and conflicts of the human condition are a sort of “haha isn’t it silly how worked up we got over all that? *chuckle*” This did not involve a medium - it was my own unanticipated un-requested experience. It gave me a lot of hope and reassurance for both my life moving forward and that his death did not create a continued experience of pain or suffering for him. Nothing anyone says about fraud or psychosis can erase this experience and what it meant for me, and I am already a well trained mental health provider who has also done a lot of counseling about the conflict zone between, as I call them, the Capital-S Skeptics and the Militantly Woo people. I really appreciate that Michael and Aubrey speak about editing and shitty portrayal of statistics and misleading reputation markers like which journals are publishing work, and aren’t belittling the Why of someone seeking this service out or the benefit they might receive. As well as how people can truly believe they are helping even when they might be harming (Longo and his lab, EG, who is full up in the Science & Evidence environment). That’s what I like about the show.
There's only one sure way to stop aging...
When I listened to the Goop episode of Maintenance Phase I looked up Goop just to see what it was like. Now I get ads for it and I'm like, "Oh for f*** sake, I don't want a $45 sex stone" hahaha.
What’s the deal with Gwenyth’s vagina? Her photo looks like she is standing in front of a huge one.
You asked for a sketch on a psychic getting everything wrong, the Muppets deliver: https://youtu.be/Xg3XU6CMUJc
The idea of them testing "treatments" that they have already promoted is hilarious!
Oh gosh, the description of the vampire facial squicked me out so bad. Your blood is supposed to be *inside* you! And the tattoo gun thing just sounds like an invitation for infection. D: Big yikes all around.
To be fair, they are trying to stab it back in!
Although I don’t want to subject either of you to the torture of watching more goop episodes, there are even crazier ones I’m dying to hear you talk about. I couldn’t stop watching, it was like a car wreck.
I would be interested in a bonus episode about this wild show on Hulu called Dietland. It was recommended to me because I watched Shrill but it’s pretty out there.
I’ll believe psychics when they speak to James Randi. :)
I don't know if you can do this legally, but I always wanted a tote that says "Maintenance Phase is my Goop"
I don’t think this was the intended takeaway from this episode but I got the urge to take out my tarot cards after listening
Ha ha ha ha I'm still laughing about Shrek
Thank you guys for getting this second episode out this month :) your work is, as always, awesome.
I was honestly hoping one of you would review the orgasm episode. I'm a person who doesn't think that all psychics are just blanket scammers. I have been to psychics who have been spot on without me saying anything. But I also acknowledge that they don't pass the scientific method. I also acknowledge that there are people who claim to be psychic and pray on vulnerable people. Me going to a $20 random reading is very different to people being scammed for hundreds of thousands of dollars for psychics to 'cure' curses and other such nonsense. Those victims are emotionally vulnerable and need to be protected.
So much good with you two. But, Michael. Can we please talk about your use of the word “crescendo?” Crescendo means getting louder, as in present continuous. You keep using it to mean the apex or climax of a situation. Yes, it’s the tiniest thing ever, but in case you care.
See #2: cre·scen·do noun 1. the loudest point reached in a gradually increasing sound. "the port engine's sound rose to a crescendo" 2. the highest point reached in a progressive increase of intensity. "the hysteria reached a crescendo around the spring festival"
And now I feel compelled to watch The Goop Lab just to gawk at it!
Do it -- you won't be disappointed! SO bad it's good, with ONE actual good episode (the one on orgasms with the badass legendary late Betty Dodson).
I already explained to you how it works, and you didn't acknowledge it. This is just an example of why what you said was incorrect. OF COURSE there's deeper and more meaningful conversation. In context the point of that was to communicate she was happy on the other side with her friend Candy who had also passed away. That she was at peace. Mediums aren't omniscient, often times spirits just give them images and basic phrases to get their point across. It's not the same as having a conversation with a person. They can't explain the answer to the universe in a series of pictures and clues nor do I think they're allowed to. But my friend isn't dangerous, she's not a fraud, she's not scamming anyone, and there's nothing wrong with what she's doing. Is it literally so hard for you to respect another person's beliefs?? You must be a lonely miserable person. I'm not doing this anymore. Go hate somewhere else. I'm not interested. At least Mike and Aubry were kind enough not to put anyone else down or be condescending. Go make some friends or something.
Ok I’ve had PRP facials and have LOVED them. Really improved texture of skin. But I know it is weird..
"Solid gold rattle" should be a new Patreon tier.
I have been meaning to drop the Valter Longo Prolon suggestion for some time. (I essentially wanted to kill myself and everyone around me by the 4th day, for sure... I have GI issues I hoped would magically reset I guess?? Instead I got real gd angry and a full body rash.) Thrilled to hear it’s on your radar. Thanks Goop!
Most grief therapists, I would hope, have degrees and a good amount of training before taking on patients. If they do not, then, yes, they are probably harmful. Again, the idea of a "spirit world" -- this is just not something for which there is any proof. We don't even understand what consciousness is or how the brain works, so anyone claiming they have a secret ear to the "spirit world" is claiming to have utterly mind-boggling powers that have significant implications for pretty much everything we as humans know and understand. NONE of us know what happens after death -- that is the plight of humanity. So if any mere human claims to have this information, or be able to "bridge the gap" between this world and another one for which there is no proof, I am going to have my major doubts, yes. Again, if it helps give some people comfort to believe things like this, fine. But I have seen some of these mediums at work, and I see the people they are talking to, and, good Lord, yes, I believe they would benefit MUCH more from a trained psychotherapist (a good one -- yes, there are bad therapists, too, of course) than from talking to these people who have no real psych training and are treading some pretty dangerous waters.
That's the thing, is real mediums don't claim to know more than the average person. They can just communicate with spirits. Like you said we don't understand everything, so afterlife is open to interpretation. But ngl your arguments give me the same vibe as Christians who go out of their way to convince me I'm going to hell for burning sage (when I'm literally an indigenous woman.) You don't have to believe what I believe. If you find comfort in believing only in things for which there's concrete proof, that's fine, but a lot of people feel otherwise. We should be allowed to have that without being shamed for it. I hope you have a good day.
Rebecca, "they all work with hot and cold strategy," no. Legit ones don't do that. My family friend who is a medium who had never met my boyfriend, asked me about his mom's obsessions with Elvis, some kind of clock, and candy. I didn't have any idea what she was talking about until I asked my boyfriend later and he said his mom (who has passed recently) WAS obsessed with Elvis, and had an Elvis clock given to her by her best friend Candy. This is what I'm talking about. She had no connection to my boyfriend, he wasn't in the room (this was over sykpe, just for fun) or part of the conversation, no one was charged anything, and I didn't even know his mom well enough to know any of that let a lone the family friend. Now you can come back at me and accuse me of lying or whatever, but this is why you're claim that all psychics are fake because they do this one thing is frustrating to me.
This is just the kind of thing that helps make these stories LESS believable, honestly. Again, I'm glad you didn't pay for that session, and maybe that medium is one who just means well. But the idea that talking to the spirit world, being in touch with the DEAD (again, one of the key mysteries of life is death and what happens afterwards) yields THIS kind of communication? Elvis clocks and other totally unimportant nonsense? Instead of something profound and interesting, given that they are communicating with DEAD PEOPLE who could relay anything and instead choose to communicate these absolutely tedious, banal, utterly meaningless "messages?" Why are these conversations always so incredibly unenlightening? These are entities that supposedly know WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE, could provide all the answers that humans have been seeking since the beginning of humanity, and instead they communicate pictures of Elvis clocks to random mediums? If this is all true, then it's incredibly depressing, honestly! Elvis is a popular figure -- probably used a lot in "fishing" readings like this. I don't know. All I can say is, what is even the point of these absolutely dumb conversations mediums always engage in with people "on the other side?" Why is THIS the kind of stuff the dead choose to communicate from beyond the grave? It just doesn't really make any sense. And again, if it's true, dead people are -- well, they are deadly boring. Anyhow, again, if you aren't spending money on this and it gives you some pleasure, fine. But I just have never seen, heard or read anything that sounded very convincing, and this kind of thing has been debunked time and time again. As noted, Harry Houdini, as a magician, knew ALL the tricks of mediums and worked to debunk them a century ago. They are still using the same tricks and methods that they were in his time. As M noted in the podcast, it would take someone relaying some pretty important and very specific information to convince me, and that just -- never happens.
Have you listened to the podcast Oh No with Ross and Carrie? They have fantastic episodes on people who claim to have powers- they have covered self proclaimed psychics and done debunkings that are great to listen to
Sounds worth a listen!
I was just talking to my gf the other day about how I used to believe in and practice new age spirituality stuff like this- crystal healing, energy healing, tarot and divination. It's all bullshit. At best, it is people like me who really genuinely believed, wanted to believe, and at worst scams. While it can be useful to some people, I believe that people who claim to be psychics do actively harm people whether they are aware of it or not. When they make up stuff about your dead relatives, loved ones, it stunts your grieving process, manipulates your grief and profits from it. Whether they intend to or not.
I believe most of them fully intend to. They all work the same strategy of "hot" and "cold" readings, etc., so they have to be fully cognizant of the fact that they do not actually possess these "gifts."
"i found it unsatisfying in a way that was extraordinarily predictable"
Mykaela, we don't have to go into how "They only relay information they are given" is the easy way out for mediums never having to prove that they are actually doing what they claim to be doing. Again, as I said, if you are not paying anyone for this and it helps you, etc., then great. But the fact is, there are people out there who prey on the grieving and vulnerable and take their money while actively TRICKING them, and this is why I think the whole thing is not as innocuous as M&A are making it out to be. I just think this is an abhorrent practice. And every "famous" medium I know of has been exactly this kind of bullshit artist, with their bread and butter involving taking advantage of grief-stricken people. Just -- not OK.
Like I said, you can find ways to pick it apart like anything, but plenty of people who aren't grief stricken will pay for medium services too. By your logic, are trauma therapists exploiting the grief stricken? Because they charge for their services? I genuinely believe it's possible to communicate with the spirit world so I don't have an issue with people charging for a service unless they're legitimately pretending for the sake of miney. If you don't like mediums, don't go see one. Don't pay for one, but don't pretend to be outraged on behalf of grief stricken people if you would only lecturing them for seeking closure from a world they believe in. Also, of course famous mediums are full of shit. They wouldn't have gotten there otherwise. They often have to exaggerate their abilities because real mediumship isn't TV worthy.
Please, enlighten me. This is the example given us by the most well-known mediums in the world. So would love to hear your take and how you found out the answers to the mysteries of life and death from the mediums you know. Shouldn't they share?? This would change the direction of humanity. If there are people who can truly talk to the dead, this is earth shattering, mind bending, future changing information.
Because it doesn't work like that. Mediums only relay information they're given. There are mysteries to life, paths, questions, that were not supposed to know. There are things we're supposed to learn ourselves. Mediums can give closure to people, help them figure out what path they want to be on, connect them with the spirit world in other ways, but if we all knew everything it's likely we wouldn't embark on the journeys we're supposed to. Every one of us has a purpose, and we're on this earth to live and grow and love. This is what I and many many people believe. I'm sure you could pick it apart if you wanted to, but I don't understand why me and so many other people having this core belief system is "dangerous" or envokes so much judgment or hate.
WHAT A FUN EPISODE.
Haha, yes, hilarious. That's one of my biggest beefs with all these famous mediums. You claim you have access to the dead -- and THESE are the conversations you are entertaining???? You aren't trying to find the answers to all of life's great mysteries??? Good lord, but the dead are boring conversationalists, and all of the most famous mediums seem like extremely surface-y people. You have this incredible gift -- and yet all you do is the same old hot/cold reading nonsense? Also, let's not even get into how they can never get real answers to anything that matters. Say, a murder victim. "Who killed you?" Uh, nope! Just, "I see a B! Did you ever have an old relative on your dad's side who died? Did his name start with an R?" Sorry, but this is the least convincing stuff ever. And it's heinous that these people make the money they do.
This comment tells me you don't have any actual experience with that world if that's what your perception of it is...
Again, I am just a proponent of evidence rather than "beliefs." If you aren't paying these mediums and they do something for your psyche, then OK. But there is zero evidence to back up the claims of psychics and mediums -- and people have tried! It doesn't work. Ever. Mediums all use the same methods -- the hot and cold readings fully debunked a century ago. Also, as noted on the podcast, if people could actually talk to the dead, this would be a mind blowing and shape shifting change to the reality of humanity. In other words, it would be a MUCH BIGGER DEAL! It would mean the biggest mysteries of life, death, religion and everything humanity has wrestled with since we had the ability to do so could be SOLVED. This would be utterly earth shattering. Instead we get storefront dimestore actors and super cheesy Hollywoodized TV shows on TLC and Netflix. We get "mediums" getting the most banal messages from the dead that tell us nothing of note. Just generalizations and things that don't matter. No answers to the greatest mysteries of death, life, religion, meaning, etc. Just like, "I'm getting a C! I'm seeing a bracelet! Your father loves you!" That alone should tell everyone this is utter nonsense.
Agreed - ever see the South Park episode about John Edward? It’s a masterpiece. That ends with an award ceremony for biggest douche in the universe
As someone who spent years in laboratory research and performed analysis to confirm results were statistically significant to prove a thesis, I have so many questions about the “research” publications Mike described. If they were only two pages long did they even outline their statistical analysis plan? Did they provide any additional details or tables listings and figures to support the analysis or outcomes? Did they perform analysis to confirm their claims regarding the difference between 35% and 51% were statistically significant based on the number of participants in each arm (medium vs non-medium)? Did they even describe the manner in which they quantified their results, what types of controls were in place so on and so forth? Based on Mike’s description it sounds unlikely any of this was the case. Without those elements you can’t really say that your research proved a thesis. I’m guessing the journals that published these papers (the ones she didn’t personally run of course) are of dubious legitimacy because a reputable peer reviewed journal would not accept or publish the research as described.
I think you already know the answers to all of your questions!
“They call that one the Hannibal” lol
It's always hard to choose a best joke but this one wins for sure
WOW i’ve been waiting for this fasting mimicking diet to come up. would love to hear more of what you guys think about prolon. maybe a full episode about it and Dr Longo?!
Great episode! But you are far too easy on psychics and mediums, IMO. These people knowingly engage in BS cold/hot readings and take people's money to do so -- in the case of mediums, we're talking about grieving and very vulnerable people's money! Then you feed them a bunch of nonsense that could actually be harmful. Mediums have been debunked since the time of Harry Houdini (that was one of his missions), they still use exactly the same scammy methods and they should be called out for taking advantage of people.
Absolutely not. There are frauds, but there are also mediums and psychics that exist. There are things we don't understand about the universe, and this kind of spirituality is really important for a lot of people, and helps people heal through trauma. You may not think it's real but that doesn't mean you get to disrespect people's spiritual beliefs. You wouldn't do so if it was an organized religion...
I would suggest watching survivor death on Netflix, I think the last 2 episodes they follow a researcher from a university of virgina who track children remembering past lives. https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/our-research/children-who-report-memories-of-previous-lives/fifty-years-of-research/
More nonsense, but ok.
Ugh, saying psychics are harmless is not the best take. Being noncommittal against practices that harm many people multiple ways everyday is supporting it. It's also insulting to be told that because I'm a skeptic nothing will ever convince me- that is a believers idea.
This isn't true. This kind of spirituality is really important to a lot of people who believe in it.
I love you guys so much, and this was an awesome episode! The beginning of the episode you mentioned Bombas socks. In case you were wondering if they actually follow through on their promise. Yes they do. I volunteer at a homeless shelter for women and we received several huge boxes of socks from them. Bombas literally kept our ladies in warm dry socks all winter long.
That's good to know! I have several pairs that I love (because one of my friends loves to gift them 💗) but I hadn't really looked into them too much.
Ugh, like 9 years ago, I had a holy roller minister call me out in a work retreat (it was a Christian company...which is a whole other thing) in front of everyone. He was given a list of employees and said he prayed over all of us and when he hit my name he saw me spinning lots of plates and trying not to break any and he knew I had many big projects all demanding my time. Such a generic image for office workers (and hey I've got a super generic name, coincidence?). But I'm the opposite. I like to work one project at a time, to the point that I don't even leave my email open when I'm focused. I channeled Dwight Schrute and replied, "Wrong!" to the horror of most of management and the delight of a few fellow rank and file folks. The guy looked truly shocked but kept going down the list and then later tried to talk to me in the buffet line. I shut down that convo so fast. No fishing allowed buddy.
Aubrey- The sketch idea about a psychic who is always wrong reminded me of one of my favourite sketch characters: Raymond Day by the Scottish comedian Limmy- similar thing and a strong recommend! All on YT
I listened to this while holding a fetish and thanking it for its energy. lol Great stuff though. Scamming psychics are awful! I know of a "psychic" who will tell people that God doesn't love them, but if they fork over $1,000, she can help them, or something like that. Horrible.
I’d like to see something about the ‘diets don’t work, this isn’t a diet’ trend lately. Diet companies have obviously co-opted the language but are still running the same scams. Noom, that two day a week reset, lots of others that advertise aggressively on social media.
It's a lifestyle! :shudder:
The "knees hurt on stairs" comment on the anti-aging discussion made me laugh. I'm turning 35 soon and my knees have been unhappy with me since I was 20. Knees (and ankles, for that matter) get fucked up easily. Turns out a lot of stuff about our bodies is at the "Well, this functions good enough that it hasn't changed via evolution because there's not enough pressure for it to change" stage.
Yeah, I work in healthcare (specifically around orthopedic medicine) and human joints are just...SO easy to fuck up.
Thoughts on Tyler Henry?
I could listen to a 24 hour long episode of this
Could you do an episode on DNP (2,4-dinitrophenol) and how some have used it for weight loss even though it was NOT created for that purpose? It looks pretty bad
So much of religion is just therapy with a larger cast of characters. Praying? Mindfulness. Counting your blessings? Gratitude journaling. Etc. etc.
Dear Mike and Aubrey, I love your show deep in my soul. Here's something I think about a lot as the parent of a kid who plays a shitton of video games - What about a show related to moral panic at the intersection of video games, health, weight etc? I feel like there's a lot of suspect popular reporting (and maybe science?) on the supposed negative impacts of video games for kids and their ostensible ties to other health outcomes.
I personally strongly dislike psychics and mediums. Imo they take advantage of people in desperate situations and make them pay tons of money for nothing. Its like televangelists for me. If you wanna believe in astrology thats fine, but don’t make other people pay you for something you just cannot provide. Really loved the podcast though. Definitely enjoy watch parties with you two.
This is assuming all psychics and mediums are fake, which I don't believe they are.
I'm laughing so hard listening to this. I, like at least one other commenter, am a believer in psychics and I subscribe to the idea that everyone has intuition. However I totally think there's a lot of scammers out there. The reason I'm laughing so much is that the last time I went to see a medium, they totally had no clue what they were doing. "I see a man, maybe a name starting with an F that was mean or abusive in your childhood". I suppose there's a 50/50 chance that I woman my age has a bad relationship with their father or another male relative, but they guessed wrong. Nope, there's no F names and I actually had a good relationship with my dad lol 😂 The medium did a little more fishing and then I gave them some clues. Ultimately they told me that I'm a good mom and that my father is proud of me, which is what I wanted to hear, so GOOD JOB at reading the room 🤣
Same! A friend took me to see a "medium" on Salem mass once, and it was the fakest nonsense ever. Exactly like what Michael and Aubry are saying, but I also have a close friend that's a medium and I know she's legit, so I'm also a believer. It's really disheartening to see so many people shitting on others spiritual beliefs in this comment section though
I love this format
Your mention of good BBC documentaries reminded me: Please do Honey We’re Killing The Kids. Which is the most incredibly gross and abusive series about fat kids, in which eg parents are made to look at photos of their kids as if in the future. If the future kids are thin: smiles and suits and ties! If the future kids are fat: dirty stained T-shirts and misery! It’s just so manipulative and horrific. Made by the BBC :-(
There was an American version too
(Like if they’d said “I’m getting the play the Barbershop Chronicles or the actor Cyril Nri” and that hit as something granddad loved or connected with, I might be somewhat impressed. “Shrek or a donkey” is a very wide net.)
I actually think mentioning “a donkey or Shrek” is some really clever fishing. Shrek’s a big movie franchise, there’s a few movies in there and LOTS of different elements that a person might pick up on when reminded of the movie. Like they had someone in their family who thought they were unattractive, someone in their family who looked for love for a long time, a cat that begged for food with big eyes, or just anyone who they remember enjoying that movie! It’s also helpfully a movie from a fairly long time ago, a family movie that anyone might have seen and that parents/grandparents would have watched with kids. It’s quite a brilliant reference really, when you’re scratching around for something.
This is such a great point! The soundtracks to the Shrek movies are also stacked with iconic songs that can easily carry memories and associations, for example my grandma loved Leonard Cohen, but my first exposure to his music was the Hallelujah cover in Shrek ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So as someone whose spiritual beliefs include psychics and mediums can anyone tell me how ugly this ep gets with them? I’m not saying grifters are good, but psychic work and mediumship are legitimate spiritual practices for other people and I’d rather not listen if it’s just going to trash my religion for an hour lmao. I’ll catch the next one.
It’s very much “everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and should take from them what they want” but also Michael and Aubrey make it clear they’re not believers and say it would take a lot to convince them. Hope that helps.
Haven't listened yet, but I'm excited to. Just wanted to ask why Gwyneth appears to be standing in a vagina. Seems like a strange place to be hanging out.
Please do employer organized weight loss challenges
The whole employer incentivised "wellness" bs, and how it effectively just penalizes disabled people, fat people, older people, poorer people, etc
I hired a tarot reader for my friend’s bridal shower because I thought it would be lighthearted and fun. She ate a bad cheesesteak before and kept complaining about indigestion and burping loudly. I hosted the shower at my house with lots of family pictures and she kept asking if I had a family member who had passed who would have been called a “plain Jane.” It’s like actually madam no it does not sound familiar but thank you for the insulting inference.
Could not stop reading this as “members of parliament” watch party, realized I was so excited for new episode I haven’t had coffee yet. Thank youuuuu
Psychics are not just harmless fun! They are exploitative, economically and emotionally. They speak for the dead, which seems obviously unethical and creepy. But worse, they can and do psychologically and emotionally influence their clients. At worst, they are deeply harming vulnerable people by practicing what is effectively bullshit, unlicensed psychotherapy. I doubt ya'll would be as chill about people practicing harmful fake physical health services. These scam artists are not providing a harmless good time. They are emotional vampires with clients who give them hundreds or thousands or dollars to possibly wreck emotional havok on the clients.
That’s only some of them. Scammers can use any medium to get money from people and hurt them but not all people who are psychic or mediums are scammers.
Did you see how former Goop staffer and podcast host Elise has come out against much of what goop preaches recently?
Which podcast?
Love, love, love your show. Had to comment on the “Vampire Facial”; as a person who was diagnosed last year with a rare platelet disease (Immune Thrombocytopenia, an aftermath of long Covid), the idea of wasting those precious platelets by putting them on your face is beyond gross. What the actual F is your epidermis going to do with a bunch of plasma and platelets? Your face is not a poke cake!
“Your face is not a poke cake!” Has me in stitches omg
"i wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy...unless of course we are talking about my worst enemy, gwyneth paltrow" - new maintenance phase tagline?
g
I’m so excited to listen to the episode! Would you consider looking into Corinne Crabtree? She has the “No BS Weight Loss” program that I think she invented herself based on her 100 pound weight loss. Thanks for all you do!
Looks like the typical "I figured out this ONE WEIRD TRICK that will fix everything wrong with dieting (and also with you), you just need to pay me money and then I'll let you in on my secret!"
SO EXCITED!!! I've been waiting for goop!!
I haven’t even listened yet and my day is already made.
Love the episode! The biological age stuff makes me ‘oof.’ I’m 24 with kidney disease (cause unknown.) to suggest that that means I’m somehow ‘old’, and in turn that that’s a really bad thing, is so loaded with ableism and ageism. 🤢 me and my old lady kidneys are doing our best and going to stay the hell away from Goop
Also, as an aside, I’d love an episode on male birth control (or lack thereof). I feel like I see outrage posts about it all the time on social media (how the lack of male birth control is a result of sexism, the failed trials, etc.) I’d be really interested to hear a funny, well researched take from you both!
I embarrassingly watched the whole series when it came out a couple years ago, and I’d love if y’all watched the one on orgasms and shared your thoughts on that one too. All the others were pretty much as you describe here but that one actually moved me and had some truly interesting moments! Also, the cold water swimming ep is great because it’s just SO specific and the dude is A Character. But definitely watch the orgasm one!
the orgasm ep is SOOOOOOO important please please please watch
I’m so excited to listen to this my jade egg just shot out!
Now that I know I have this to listen to - today just got much more exciting! 🧡
Keen to listen, my question is how to talk to friends about a personal eating disorder without being triggering especially to fat friends (my best friend is fat and i really want to open up to her about it)/ how to protect yourself from bs about weight and people talking to you about their body when it is like random straingers (I had a kid I tutor who kept opening up to me about 'skinny shaming' and would not stop even after me saying I am not the right person and please talk to a parent or counsellor etc.)
Have you asked your fat friend if they’re up for talking/listening about your ED? Thats where I would start.
why i hate psychics: they're grifters stringing along hurt people and stealing all their money.
That’s only people using a psychic grift to steal from people. For others it’s a legitimate spiritual practice
Would love to hear your take on weight loss surgery
YESSSSSSSS and also its effectiveness and riskiness, maybe even plastic surgery (like lypo) or just plastic surgery and ethicacy and also risks (BBLs I have been told are an issue!!!!)
Would love to see an episode on Dr Michael Mosely & Co
Yes! I was literally thinking this in the car this morning re-listening to the zombie facts episode.
Oh my god!!! Oh my god!!! Oh my god!!! …. And I just googled “Goop Jade Egg”… doesn’t ship to the UK… I’m like damn it!!! … then I see in bright red at the bottom ITEM IS NON-RETURNABLE - I’m dying 🤣🤣🤣🤣… who would be like… this jade egg really isn’t doing it for my lady cave so I’m GOING TO RETURN TO SENDER - Oh my god I just can’t!!! My sides hurt!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Is it Friday? No it just feels like it cause M&A dropped the Goopisode.
Hahaha Omg I looked at the post and misread it, thought it said the episode was only 7 minutes long (it was actually posted 7 mins ago) and I was like “nnnnnooooooooooo!!!” I need more Mike and Aubrey!!!! But then re checked and saw it’s like an hour and now I’m happy again! Love you guys!!!!