Limiting & clipping for loud and punchy mixes/masters [video]
I mix and master music for my living, and obviously getting songs loud enough (or filthy loud) is an important part for it.
These days in mixes and premasters that I get (and also some released songs for sure), I hear a slightly too distorted tone sometimes, and at the same time, I see a lot of ppl share the public advice of "you must clip this and that" which I simply cannot often agree with.
Been meaning for a good while to talk about my philosophy of getting things loud while keeping it punchy – that is how I handle things as an engineer. I’ve always had one simple philosophy I’ve been sticking to and I want to share it.
In this video, I show and tell about the most important techniques but also the philosophy that goes into getting things loud yet dynamic.
I want to help all producers to have their things bang while keeping it clean and punchy.
Maybe it came out a bit long, but this is not a topic I can make a 2-minute quickie about (well I could but we'd skip a ton of important talk).
Comments (20)
question: I can get my music super loud but what about dynamic range? I have seen some of the punchiest tracks land somewhere right above or slightly below 3db of dynamic range. do you ever look at that or you are just going for loudness?
I mix the song first and make sure it punches well. Only after that I take care of master loudness. A song with very wimpy dynamics can get loud for sure but punch and dynamics have to be there in the mix.
have you tried Airwindows AD clip8? All his plugins are free and there is now one vst which hists them all. Some great things in there I haven't really scratched the surface yet but doing a home limiter shootout and it's certainly up there, add a bit of grit in a good way. Worth a day exploring that bundle. Thinking about Kraftur on Black Friday 50% sale. Hmmm... https://github.com/baconpaul/airwin2rack/releases/tag/DAWPlugin
Thank you - I think I’m kinda done with clippers but could check it out!
Using Ozone Maximizer in Ableton, it creates a 1 beat delay for me (kick hits when the snare is supposed to). Is this true for others? Maybe I need to play with my buffer settings? I never really noticed it before becuase I usually put two Maximizers on my mastering project after bouncing out my mix.
Oh weird - in realtime or export? I guess you’re using it on a track, based on your kick/snare description? Plugin delay compensation may be failing somehow. It’s mostly meant as a master tool - that’s why I’ve never tried it on a track!
For those of us without soothe, am I right in thinking that you could get a similar result with a dynamic eq sidechained to the kick?
Yes sir, and a compressor can do it too (with a comp it’s the whole signal though if we’re being precise)
Great video, thanks again Fanu!
I wanted to ask about something, because I've been listening to a lot of Sofa Sound stuff recently. I like how saturated and upfront the drums and bass are, and their creative use of distortion/white/pink noise in sound design. My question is how much of that upfront loudness comes from EQing/having the right amount of high end/using the right distortion, and how much of it is "shit's just really loud" 😄? I ask because I'm muddling my way through, "how close can I get to this sound, knowing what I know?" Which I hope is a worthwhile exercise. I'm definitely using the two limiters, and seem to have a good balance so far.
I need that Droppin' Science t-shirt NOW haha
Was some bootleg off eBay years ago…I need a new one!
Thank you for this video Fanu. On the subject of clipping- just wondered if you use/have used Sonnox Inflator for mixing? I ask because apparently it increases the perceived loudness of whatever goes through it without squashing dynamics. But I don’t fully understand the science so I could be completely wrong about that! I tend to use it on busses because it seems to be a quick fix for loudness (not that I’m an advocate of loud music) but from what you’re saying if I understand correctly, as long as the mix is balanced well and dynamically even, then the loudness gets added in the mastering- in this case with your method into 2 limiters…?
I only have and use Oxford Enveloper which I THINK prob uses the same algorithm for pushing the loudness/sustain and it can be a great tool on drums or drum bus sometimes. To me, master limiters ONLY aim to raise the level and not change the tone or anything else (with few exceptions such as Elevate Limiter transient emphasis sometimes).
Quality video. I find it interesting that the two limiters appear to be identical (apart from one having TP mode switched on). Going to try this! Was not expecting you to hit both of them this hard either. Thought you might have one doing 3 dB and the other adding about 1 dB extra , but here it looks like they are collectively doing about 6. Intriguing
Cheers! Yeah only the last one has to handle TP; no need to have the first one handle it. I'm not *too* worried about how things look *if* it sounds good :-) I also think the Ozone Limiter can take a proper f*cking beating, and that's why it can be great for pushing things loud, lol. Even all the loud EDM I've handled: always two of those badboys!
What are your thoughts on the Ash Ultra clipper?
No idea - haven’t tried! Honestly Kraftur leaves me craving for nothing in terms of getting the signal loud as hell via clipping.
When do you decide if you're going to use the soft clip saturator in ozone maximizer? The soothe and kraftur tips are excellent when you need to go there. Also can you do a video about your initial thoughts on Make Believe cgii? The loudness knob seems to be doing something different from limiting and clipping. Maybe it's closer to Kraftur.
It's never use soft clipping on Ozone by default – so easy to overdo. But I've used it a few times when I've felt slight clipping might help; prob never hitting more than 5-10%; watch the limiting curve and see some of the roughest peaks get tamed but try and listen and not create audible distortion...things can get roasted quick. Haven't had my eyes on the plugin market for a while; first time hearing about Make Believe cgii … should prob check it out, thanks!