Buffy 7x19 Empty Places

This episode makes me very uncomfortable*. It would maybe be more palatable if Faith wasn’t the default other leader (I mean, wasn’t Dawn also ostensibly there for everything Faith did to Buffy? And Dawn would go along with replacing Buffy with Faith after that? I’m not buying it. Also, not entirely buying that Dawn didn’t realize Buffy was quiet/introverted/short because of what happened to Xander - she has been so perceptive other times, such as in Entropy) and if Anya didn’t sorely piss me off (I ignore Rona and Kennedy here - they don’t really know the history, and the others I get even though I don’t like the dogpile feeling this scene gives me). This episode gets skipped on non-reactor watching because it’s so darn frustrating. I can’t write elegantly on this because my mind goes so many places - I need to watch the next episode stat for a brain clear! * Full disclosure: Buffy is my favorite character and I don’t like this after all she’s done for seven years so that colors my opinion a lot.

Now that I'm finished the reaction, I'll make one other point. Even Dawn's reaction in this episode makes sense. Twice, Buffy shut her down. The second time, she was trying to explain why they were fighting, that the cops got rough with them and they were trying to help Faith. Buffy shut her down and snapped at her to leave instead of listening to her. For Dawn, it must seem like she's always being dismissed, and usually, there isn't much she can do. So when everyone wanted Buffy gone, Dawn was like, hey, I'm gonna finally push back. Just to be clear, though, your reaction makes sense, Jules. You reacted to this exactly the way you were supposed to. I love this episode, but I also love how protective you are of Buffy.

Everyone else here made good points as to why the reactions of the group make sense in this episode, but I would also like to add: When one of the young potentials, Cloe, killed herself because the First got in her head, Buffy's response was, "Cloe was an idiot." *Angry voice* Uh, if you want the respect of those over whom you are a leader, you do not watch a young, nearly helpless girl, hanging from a light fixture, having just committed suicide as a result of the most powerful villain in your entire world brainwashing her into it, then respond by telling the other girls in her position that she is stupid or weak. Okay, I'm using a bit of hyperbole here to make a point. I know, Buffy is not simply waving off a suicide because she's a bitch. I get it--the situation was so hopeless, and the potentials didn't seem to be doing anything but getting killed. Her reaction is understandable when taken in context. But I also think the potentials, and by association, Robin, Giles, and Faith, have a right to be mad at her. Her reaction to Cloe alone is enough to show us how distant she's become, and it's enough to justify them saying she shouldn't lead anymore. Add to that, she led them into a trap in which several of the girls were killed or hurt, and Xander lost his eye. Buffy's doing that makes sense. Caleb might have been holding one of the girls hostage. But after what happened, they're looking for someone to blame. That someone is going to be Buffy because she is their leader. And since Buffy didn't willingly step down, I can see how the solution would be to make her leave. The ending is unfortunate, and hard to watch, but it does make sense. For me, part of what makes it so heartbreaking is exactly that. It works.

This episode is so frustrating. I agree that it was just done so late in the season that it makes it feel like its now either gonna end with people not having made up properly, or kinda rushing to make up by the end. Especially the buffy and Giles relationship 😞 Argh I hate it! And Anya and Dawn's arguments just make me mad. I get what some comments are saying about these issues brewing for a while, and thats true, but its sad that this bust up happens near the end of the show, and also some of the things that are said seem just..strange..like buffy supposedly not deserving to be the slayer, when for 7 years its been clear she's worthy, or dawn kicking buffy out of the house when buffy literally died for her in s5. Some angst is fine but it seemed very extreme

A lot of people seem to blame everyone's reaction against Buffy, and claim it is unmotivated. I really think if you examine the characters this really makes more sense, and you can see the groundwork for everyone's attitude laid down over the whole season. Firstly Buffy has always made decisions like this, but up till now it most;y involved her friends. So it is hardly surprising that the Potentials, who are not as close, react badly. But why do her friends also turn against her? Robin Wood: clearly has a reason. His life long search for his mother's killer was abruptly curtailed by Buffy, and he was told if he carried on she would let Spike kill him. However much he is still with the group, this must rankle. Anya: Buffy's attempt to kill her, which ultimately led to the death of Halfrek is still very much a bitter pill to Anya. She feels very much left outside the group, especially when she sees a murderer like Spike kept in Buffy's good graces. She even refers to this in an earlier episode when she says he could murder any number of Frat boys and get away with it. Willow: Sees the first injury to Xander, her closest friend. And Buffy acting as if she doesn't care. Given more time Willow might come around, it's just too fresh. Giles: Surprisingly obvious.He has always been a father figure to Buffy, and now she sets off on her own and leaves him behind. This was strongly foreshadowed in season 5 finale when he shouts angrily at her over her refusal to kill Dawn. Xander: can perhaps be forgiven, only a few hours out of the hospital having lost the sight of one eye. Dawn: This is for most the deal breaker....Dawn would never do that everyone cries. I think we miss just how deeply the events of Potential affected her. Yes Xander made a lovely speech and she accepted the situation. Is it not logical that she feels forced into a role she does not like. So again, logically, she feels very bitter at Buffy's refusal to accept the group's decision. Allied to her feelings over Xander's injury, her attitude makes good sense to me. Once we add in Buffy's admitted colder distance as she struggles with the loneliness of leadership, I believe this episode is very well prepared for over the course of a season. Where it is difficult is that none of the characters speak out about these sub textual motivations. We have no speeches to make it obvious why they are acting as they do. As in real life, we have to do some detective work to see the truth.

The simple solution is starting all this Caleb drama wayyy earlier, maybe even during the Sleeper Spike arc. Introducing Caleb and injuring Xander in 7x18 left no room for emotions to fester before they exploded into the fight in this episode and it just feels awkward and rushed. If Xander were hurt earlier, Anya, Dawn, and Willow could’ve seen Buffy’s outward ‘failure to care’ longer and had actual, semi-valid reasons to oust her

The scene at the end could actually have been an interesting conflict, because Buffy went a bit too far in my opinion, basically demanding everybody to put their lives at risk again when they were clearly still under shock, but then of course the writers went over the top again and decided everybody should gang up on Buffy at once and say the most horrible things, much like in 3x02 (Dead Man's Party), which I consider the worst episode of the show. The most infuriating thing about this episode for me are the things that Anya said, "you didn't work for it", "you're just luckier than us", to paraphrase. We've seen Buffy suffer for the entire show and now Anya basically tells us Buffy is privileged and lucky? What the hell were the writers smoking??? And Dawn kicking Buffy out of her own house, seriously? Who is paying the bills again??? 🤔 Let's see Dawn working some shifts at Doublemeat Palace and earn her place in the house. Wait, I forgot, Dawn can't work, she's usually too busy skipping classes and stealing things ... (P.S.: I've been ranting against Dawn a lot in several comment sections, but especially now I'm really glad that I always made clear it was the character that I hated, not the actress. Dawn has always been by far my least favourite Buffy main character, but Michelle Trachtenberg's performance was really good, in my opinion. My issues with Dawn have always been with the writing, not the acting.)

Yes, the outcasting of Buffy is kind of infuriating. WTF!! But it gets more understandable on re-watch (I think...:-)) Just 3 more episodes to go Jules!!

yeah this one is maddening. what is your plan for after buffyt and angel end?

I've watched this a few times now. Concerning the rebellion I felt exactly as you did. Only Faith's pushback on being the new fave struck me as convincing. This time I noticed a few things I didn't before and see how it could have worked in the writer's room. So if I can play devil's advocate, or rather Drew Z. Greenberg's advocate: Xander no-eye: the heart of the group, Willow, Anya and Dawn specifically are swayed some against Buffy. Xander's probably not a big fan of those choices either. They probably think Buffy's too close to the problem to see it clearly. Giles: his first complaint is fairly innocent enough, as is Willow's, until Buffy provokes them both into saying the quiet bit out loud. They're all under a lot of stress. Giles has always tried to compensate for his bearing and as it gets worse he doesn't cope so well. e.g. Glory Faith: she and Buffy are both right. These girls are dead. I don't think the Scoobies choose Faith? Maybe it does come back to favourite aunt stuff. The First: all this mad fear-based talk is totally its M.O. This episode or coming ones don't link the rebellion to The First which seems a misstep because they're entirely ripe to have fears played upon. Principal Wood and The Potentials: They're new here. They don't get it. The whole Spike thing? And one of them is lactose intolerant. Andrew: When you screamed 'he's dead' I laughed my ass off. Spike: Nah, looks legit. He's pretty much followed Giles lead and got results. That's the only test we have as to if Giles is on the right course but as a test its too flimsy to measure with. Maybe some other repeat-watchers could build on this? I think the elements have been built in to this happening in story terms but too much is lacking in execution for it to flow properly.

I think this episode is the sole reason why people don’t like season 7 better 🤣. I won’t say anything because at this point the slightest thing could be spoilery but I hope I remember to come back here to say what I wanted lol. I’ll just say while I hate them for ganging up on Buffy like that, I don’t hate it in the grand scheme of things.

This is the worst episode of the season, in my opinion. I just cannot stand everyone ganging up on Buffy like that. It's like Dead Man's Party on steroids. Kicking her out of her own house to boot? Who do these entitled brats think they are? If they don't want to follow Buffy then they can be the ones to leave. Dawn's "This is my house too" is BS because she's underage and hasn't been paying the bills. You just know they sent Spike away so nobody could come to her defense because Spike would not be having any of this. Sorry, this episode gets me very riled up! If anyone has seen SofieReacts reaction to this episode and the next one, she says exactly how I feel about this scenario.

When you reach Angel's last season, try avoiding the opening credits during the first episode.

Marathoning is awesome!👍 Still--- you stand forewarned: as you can already see, the final episodes of "Buffy" will drag your emotions all over the map (even to some places--- you'd probably rather they not go), whereas most of the rest of "Angel" is just more pure, unbridled nuttiness (which does balance things out pretty nicely)! [I say "most"--- because, hey, it's still the Buffyverse, which means the last episodes of "Angel" manage to bring some real emotional shocks too... And be prepared for a condition that only be described as--- *APOCALYPSE* overdose...😁] Edit on your intro: we shouldn't need to start a petition--- word is the reboot is still coming! (Of course, it's tinged with sadness too and--- no need to say again why...)