892 - Talking Points Memo feat. Jael Holzman (12/10/24)

I would love to hear this exact episode and questions asked - but to a Marxist/socialist trans person instead of this person. I think the answers would have been far more useful and meaningful to the cause, rather than Jael’s condescending and highly lib-coded approach.

Why is Will such a soft lib when it comes to trans issues? Can’t believe during that review of Ballers he had the audacity to say “Transwomen invading women’s sports isn’t happening.”

but I was confidently assured that Trump wouldn’t do anything too transphobic for fear of upsetting Caitlyn Jenner

Caelan Conrad would be a nice guest for the show. I don't know how they identify other than not straight.

is it just me, or did she NOT answer the question at 22:00?

Damn this is bleak. I live in New Zealand, we've had a recent influx of American trans people into my community and they're very welcome and loved here, I know this probably isn't helpful to most people and it's definitely not what I would want from this situation but if you are trans and you do need to escape there are parts of NZ (NZers on the whole are very accepting of trans people) where you can come and we will help you get work, get sponsored and get a permanent residency so you can get the care you need thru the NZ govt and healthcare system. If you would like more information then msg me on here (if that's even possible) and I will do everything I can to help. Much love, K.

Jael's asking why aren't people protesting McBride being effectively banned from using the bathroom, well, it's because 1. it's an obscure thing in Congress only really making the rounds on twitter, 2. McBride is a bloodless pro-genocide ghoul who pulls for "Israel" almost as hard as Torres does, so no one actually likes her.

I love trans folks, but I hate journalists

CTH fans when the guest is trans: 💀

Thank you for having this conversation and having Jael on 💗💗💗💗💗

This is all good stuff but at what time does Felix start speaking?

This all smells like “pick me,” 🙄

MISHIMA

Here’s something heterosexuals don’t understand: your sexual freedom is linked to the queerest among you. We are headed back to the 50’s where you could only get blowjobs at truck stops. Between surveillance and all this? Ur not gonna be able to have your Feeld profiles anymore.

Please don’t attack me, I’m asking from a place of curiosity and wanting to understand, but I don’t know what they mean when they say trans people are going to die if they don’t have access to this healthcare. Is there some intervention that keeps trans people alive? Or are they just insinuating that trans people will commit suicide if they don’t have access to this healthcare? Genuine question because I’m a dumb man who needs things spelled out for me. Thanks.

What the song at the end

As someone who has been watching my trans gf of 10 years have slow mental breakdown post election, I found Jael infuriating. They were right to say that cutting off trans care will devastate the trans community but to follow up all the stakes building with "it's not my job" disgusts me. There is something so classically liberal about Jael's whole thing here, they will raise awareness but God forbid you ask for any concrete actions that might be taken to actually address the problem.

BUt JAel, I don't want to work a 3rd job to talk to people about what bathroom other people use. That's weird, remember? And I have bills.

The “Trans Issue,” has been raised by the War Mongers to distract everyone from their war profiteering. That’s what the fuck this is: and the public gets emboldened by the propaganda and bullshit bathroom dramas and the gutting of what medical care we did have; but it boils down to, Trans people being an easy target. Look at you all in the comments. I think what’s not being said overall about Trans medical and social policy in America is that Trans people are simply a classic scapegoat. A minority that the masses can be convinced to be afraid of. Approaching from that angle opens up the conversation more plainly for people not versed in the issues at hand: do you want to pile on to a minority you know little about as if your opinion about their lives matters? Or do you want to simply stand for healthcare as a basic human right regardless of gender? And the government not making medical decisions for us?

There are a lot of episodes that I I think "if my friends or family heard this it would change their mind about x issue". This was not that episode.

If you raise any question whatsoever or have even the most mild criticism of anything related to this issue then you're met with shrieking accusations of transphobia. It's because something so subjective that boils down to just feelings doesn't hold up well to scrutiny and therefore can't be debated. I do believe that virtually everyone in this comment section believes in the right of trans people to exist, myself included. The question of what kind of gender affirming care is appropriate for children is something that should be discussed. Which cosmetic surgeries should and should not be provided by a theoretical universal healthcare system should also be discussed. If there is a good argument for this stuff, then it shouldn't be so difficult to make that argument and you shouldn't be afraid of being put in a situation where you need to make that argument.

comment section 10x more entertaining than the interview

The trump administration is announcing a significant reorganization of the economy that will result in major, severe spending cuts across the board and risk the lives of more than just trans people. And democrats won’t oppose any of it. They will let it happen and probably join in many instances because they agree with the austerity measures. I don’t want trans healthcare to no longer be covered. And I don’t want the broad annihilation of the remaining welfare state in any capacity. It’s not fair that people in disadvantaged groups during moments of crisis have the burden of articulating and highlighting the specific harm that may come to them, but that is the way it is. And most of the comments on this thread are saying “hey, this guest didn’t do that.” Assuming transphobia in that sentiment is why people are just going to roll their eyes and worry about their own existential and material crisis.

Jael keeps appealing to the same people currently doing a genocide and expecting them to treat her group differently. Like why? Why does she and all mainstream journalist talk and write like the Democrats have any right to exist? If you can't even internalise the basic necessity that the Democrats (including the podjons) shouldn't even exist as an institution anymore then I'm not interested in what you have to say. My vitriol towards people like Jael and Natalie Wynn is because they are: 1. Libs 2. American That they are trans doesn't even crack the top 1000 reasons for why I think they should be despised by communists. You wouldn't treat a trans Nazi better just because they happen to be trans, which is my impression of the arguments that come from trans libs when they start advocating for themselves. I'm sorry but I will never give a shit what happens to Sarah McBride because she's 1. A Lib 2. An American 3. A Zionist 4. A member of the American state Her transnes doesn't factor into it one way or the other and that for Jael and people like her it does is an indictment of their politics and frankly their character.

Since Jael had no concrete shit to say when asked, I have an idea: Mr Chapo should stop taking 5 bucks from all the transphobic assholes in these comments jesus h christ

trans people dont have to justify their existence to center right podcast subscribers. unconditional/critical support. universal healthcare.

meh the trains talk gets tiresome. upper middle class white folk issues.

Modern HRT for trans people is older than antibiotics. And the first known HRT was Scythians in 9th century BC (there are like 10 stupid guys asking what trans people did before 🙄

If anything this comment section shows that you do not have enough trans people on your show regularly.

Was lukewarm on our conclusion here—call your senators and march in the streets? They don’t care—they will send you down the river. Police budgets expanded in 2020, oversight boards were gutted, and people are still flooded in jails. I think what it will take is actual organizing, not pleading to the people doing the killing—they don’t like us, they are not interested in saving us. People aren’t willing to face the fact that dems do not care and haven’t ever cared about our issues. Are trans rights a winning issue at this point? Even as a trans woman I don’t think I can admit that it is. We’re a fraction of the population, deeply poor, and have little to no access to resources that would sway democrats other than begging. I think it’s time for dolls to get a lot tougher and get ready for a bumpy ride. It’s not gonna be pretty—there will be a lot of dead trans kids, and they just won’t care. I wager that most people won’t care, they haven’t yet. Until we make unions and our local organizations understand that trans rights are a red line (which is going to take a LOT of effort on our part) things are gonna get a hell of a lot worse. I believe in the chapo fans and think the hearts there. An alliance between the cis and trans working class is absolutely possible, it’s just that very few people are willing to do it. I have myriad positive examples of this in my own organizing work—you gotta be patient but it’s possible. It’s frightening now because there is no infrastructure or existing base that has made serious efforts to accomplish this unity. To my dolls: we gotta be tough, tougher than we already have to be, there’s no two ways about it. There’s a way forward and if you’re wanting it, you gotta fight for it. Live in spite of the world, live to spite it, but for god’s sake live. There are so many more worse people who deserve to die than you do. Don’t give them the satisfaction.

It gets interesting around min 43-44; It is clear most Americans don’t even give a shit about cis women. So being the queer trans person that I am I discounted the idea of them caring about me about 27 years ago. However I really lost hope in 2017 when yet another (not the first not the last) of my friends killed herself. I had known her since I was a teenager and she had survived being trans before the Internet and had kicked heroin and made it all the way through fucking grad school with a PhD in public health only to realize that there just weren’t enough trans woman medical doctors so she fucking went and got herself on her way to being able to provide direct medical care to trans people… then she went off the rails and died. She died of transphobia and that’s when I gave up hope of seeing peace or even lack of violence and lack of hate for trans people in my lifetime. We don’t give a shit if you like us. You’re fucking boring anyway. You need us though, because we have way more personal conviction and backbone than any of you jabronies. Cis people are boring as hell and jealous as hell that trans people are actually doing what we want with our lives. All of that to say that I was extremely annoyed by the questions around min 40 where you ask her to give advice about how to help or console people or whatever as if that’s possible. Many trans people continue to live out of spite; and I think that’s a reasonable strategy. And to ask what can be done is patronizing, you’re smart: and even the listeners here are smart enough to know. You know what can be done. You just don’t want to do it. We will do it for ourselves, and for you like we always have.

oof. that "not my job" shit was very uncomfortable. good on Will for throwing it back to her in a respectful but firm way

Good coverage of the issue overall but Jael's overall takeaway is somehow just as disheartening as the subject itself. "I spent a month humiliating myself for these sneering establishment dems only for them to successfully bully me out of larger politics but I guess I'm stronger now because I know things?" Sometimes all you can really do with stuff like this is just talk aimlessly about your experience but I would have liked for something more definitive from someone doing media rounds as a spokesperson for this issue.

Some one any one do something! Weird sad tense episode. Wonder what jael looked like when see snipped at will about pod johns and wills responding face. Fast apology there. When it comes to doing something. It's just hard to get people on the same and clearly from the toxic back and forth in the comments it's probably too late to rectify differences. To much purity on the left to get cohesion. It's a very easy "movement" to fracture

Cush was right, the hogs really can't handle any tension or conflict on the show. Jael is fine; the post-left hate-subs need to touch grass.

Great work, Jael!

But the democratic party told me this show was transphobic!/s

we're reaching into uncharted territory of Slacktivism, people are downvoting the mcdonalds where the shooter was apprehended in altoona (it wasn't even an employee lol). just bravely innovating new ways of doing jack shit

I'm hearing a lot of complaints from those "sick of hearing" about trans people. Well, so fucking what? I'm sure there are people who are "sick of hearing" about Palestine or climate change or class struggle. That doesn't mean you abandon it.

What happened to NEW RULES WITH MATT CHRISTMAN?

I’m not sure why the Democratic Party McKinsey consultant class obsession with identity forward politics keeps getting trotted out. A good universalist position is that the government shouldn’t limit any medically useful procedure at all. And mentioning how it complicates people’s lives just brings it home. Starting with “they’re trying to kill trans people” is just exhausting to deal with. Also linking trans activism in opposition to old school left values like environmentalism is making the “they/them, not you” argument for them.

It's wild that that those Democrats said they won't do anything unless there's a wave of mass suicides. "We won't advocate for a group's rights unless there's even less of them to advocate for" may as well be what they said. Better yet they should've just admitted right then and there that they just side with the Conservatives. Do not humor the appeal to the notion that trans people are "just" 2% of the population. 2% of the US population is still 6 million people. That said, while I believe if you're a Leftist, we are obligated to learn and be aware of the particular political fronts out there in order to design policies around them (which would require an actionable Leftist movement that we don't have), as far as agitating and persuading the uninitiated, our rhetoric should be universal. People consistently show themselves to be more favorable of social safety nets if they're not pitched as primarily benefitting any one group of people regardless if that's just true; this can even happen in communities of said people. Let the Right care about people's genitals while we advocate for everyone's rights and wellbeing. The Left in the past years have had a real problem with engaging with the culture war entirely on the Right's terms. They're not even good at the culture war per se, they're just masters of using scapegoats to sell the stripping of rights to the general public and getting them to say "thank you" with a smile and ask for more. Most pharmaceuticals might be pushed because it's a steady source of profits but for some people, pharmaceuticals are the needed medical care. An alternate angle regarding sports and fitness is there is zero difference between transitioning and bodybuilding. They're both body-sculpting, and many gym rats exercise because they have some form of body dysmorphia. We should be ruthlessly fedjacketing the Right. Tucker Carlson is the son of a CIA member. Christopher Rufo, the guy that started the push of a lot of these social panics, is a Conservative think tank critter, all of which he was involved in were founded by business moguls and alphabet soup feds. The "dissident Right" only hates the government because they have to suffer sharing it with Liberals. They won't fight a civil war unless they can fight it like the Salvadoran Civil War. Many Far-Right leaders fantasize being hitmen killing Communists for the CIA. Regarding Mangione's politics, he ultimately doesn't matter. The message of his actions and the consequences of it should be co-opted by the Left no matter what

Why are they so patronizing

Here's a talking point for you that's a matter of self-interest for non trans people: HRT and other forms of gender affirming care aren't just for trans people, cis people use them all the time. If you're a cis woman, your access to hormonal contraceptives, HRT around menopause, and treatment options for stuff like period issues is deeply tied to trans people having access to these things as well. Restrictions placed on trans healthcare will make it harder for cis people to access those treatments as well.

The left needs to take a cue from the NRA: don't give an inch ever. The branding, as gross as it is that we needed, is that insurance companies and federal programs won't stop at trans rights. They can decide to withhold mental or hormonal care, what's to stop them from? Not supporting a mentally ill young person or hormone care for an elderly woman who's suffering from extreme menopausal symptoms?

I mean this sincerely: what did trans people do before medical science made any of this possible?

I’m disappointed in this community that Luigi was a Lex Friedman head and not a Kushvlog binger.

Old Sleepy was right when he said transgender discrimination is the civil rights issue of our time, too bad both he and his party are both incapable and unwilling to do anything about it. Love to see this energy around covering trans issues. Personally, would prefer the show has a guest covering trans rights that seems less annoyed to have be here and address this audience she is clearly very dismissive of though.

Man i swear people are retarded. Idrgaf but how are leftists,who should be materialist, asking for messaging on social issue. The way you stop transphobia is fucking universal programs not amessaging response to alt right brainrot that is inchorent. Blame the trans people all you want it wont fix anything, youll just be very sad and hopefully will kill yourself so your family wont have to deal with your miserable ass. Xoxo

Thank you Chapo boys for being willing to stand up for trans peoples rights. My ex is a trans woman and I worry for her ability to access the healthcare she needs in a country hostile to her plight. I’ve lost a lot of faith in lots of so called allies who are willing to concede before even attempting a fight. It means a lot. ❤️

I first want to say that I have no prior knowlege of who this guest is. I also don't want to lump all blame on their shoulders. But I gather from thw Favreau shout out that they're BNMW self-owner? Someone who votes against their own interests because they think it's professional and grown up instead of what it is: moronic and sad. I don't mean to be a dick but this was a really frustrating interview mainly because it yet again treats the Democratic party as a "confused friend" and not what it is: an enemy of all minorities. I don't know who the guest is and I get it's scary to do interviews but I just don't get what the deal was. It was like listening to someone do everything in their power get people to actively root against them. Either that, or they believe the people they were addressing were too dumb to be of any help. The Democrats aren't dumb, they know what they're doing and they know what to do to stay in power. They sacrifice minorities and they're in turn rewarded by "good caring people" with electoral votes. That cowardly bullshit needs to fucking stop. This whole narrative needs to come to an end because it's frankly disgusting to see people cowarding out and supporting these obviously smart saboteurs. It's perfectly obvious that people are just going to do a Memento-style relapse in memory but regardless: vote third party every single chance you get in every election from now on. You also need to start telling people to do this yourself instead of hiding. Hiding just resulted in failure, again, and now trans people are in trouble because people voted for the Democrats who don't want to fight for them. Start voting Green. I don't gaf about who the leader is, you need to start filling another bucket and that's going to need people to start dropping something in the vessel.

I think America already had their Mishima, his name is Kanye West

Boys I take back what I said earlier about this ep being bullshit because I wanted more spicy Luigi memes. I am sorry and I will no longer be a tax dodging grey wolf but a real grey wolf. Thank you for dedicating an episode to the struggles of the dolls and our tboy brothers.

I've noticed an upswell of anti-trans sentiment on "the left" as of lately. And while I also resentment the domination of political idpol, we should not single out trans people as "the problem" that's completely reactionary thinking.

Did they somehow trick Jael into being the guest? Jael seemed pretty dismissive to the Chapo audience and oddly scattershot when trying to answer Will’s fairly straightforward questions. Jael’s post about this interview even seems passive aggressive: “went on chapo and did the whole ‘don’t look up’ thing where they try to crack jokes and I keep saying ‘no do something please or i and my friends will die.’ it was fun” Were they “trying to crack jokes”? They seemed pretty serious once the interview started and Felix started playing Ace Combat off mic

I made it through just over half of this ep. I didn't listen to the entire ep last time Jael was on. This is a real problem, but it is such a small subset of society that I feel gets for starters way to much negative coverage - which needs to be fought, countered and ridiculed. But on the other hand, the Dems have offered them what they've offered everyone else - empty rhetoric and zero real material action. It is exhausting, but I don't know what the solution is. I also lament how much time is spent talking about such a minuscule group - both the positive and negative. I find these discussions kind of alienating in a sense. Because I want better health and mental healthcare for Trans people but we want that for everyone. Their's will be a constant struggle.

I think bringing up the whole McBride saga and not bringing up that she is a centrist Zionist who instantly capitulated to her rights getting taken away was malpractice! A lot of trans people were justifiably pissed off that she wasn’t even willing to fight for herself and framed anti-trans discrimination as a “distraction from real important issues.” To act like McBride herself isn’t part of the problem on Dem messaging on trans issues is not telling the whole story!!

fuck sarah mcbride. she is a zionist pig for those who must know. i.e. anyone that even pretends to care about Palestenian rights. There's nothing progressive about throwing Palestenians under the bus to bootstrap your political career, if not an actually deeply held personal conviction. she shouldn't be attacked for being trans, but she can fuck herself as far im concerned. https://jewishinsider.com/2023/08/delaware-state-sen-sarah-mcbride-congressional-candidate-israel-transgender/ https://www.autostraddle.com/sarah-mcbride-is-a-zionist/ https://x.com/SarahEMcBride/status/1779347023415718360

My friend Devon has posts about how to get hormones from India, it’s actually fine and not illegal. @drdevonprice on Instagram (he’s a psych PhD not a snake oil dr lol)

In like 2018 I digitized a bunch of videotapes of stuff I recorded in the 90s off Mtv, Comedy Central, and the like (lots of 120 Minutes and Stern); and was taken aback by how much humor boiled down to “she’s a man, baby!”

400 comments underneath an episode on trans rights...I look forward to reading all the normal takes from all the normal guys.

The guest was asked three different times throughout the episode if they could offer and expand on ways in which messaging, argument, counter argument, talking points, etc could be employed to their benefit by those who don’t exactly have this stuff in their back pocket. Or those who might not be the most informed but still wish to engage and be engaged because they believe in universal rights. The closest thing to an answer provided was a thank you to Jon Favreau. Brutal. Moreover, after thanking the pod Jon, they immediately stated how what would really help is if the media would treat trans people fairly and give them the mic to speak for themselves. Ostensibly, that’s what this very interview was intended to do… Not great.

Chapo is getting brigaded, just like Hasan. The reactionaries want to prevent any left podcasts from having cultural reach.

Ngl extremely disappointed that y'all don't get it. Stfu. They don't have him. They have the wrong guy!!!!!!

So tired of hearing about this tiny segment of the population when we have so many fucking things to worry about.

Anybody else want a “do something” or “I don’t know, it’s not my job to say” picket sign if I make extras? Stirring call to arms, that.

Beltway train likens treatment of trains to Palestinians.

Listening to Chapo for years and listening to this episode just really crystallizes the resentment that's been growing in me for a while about how I and everyone I love has been so thoroughly politically disenfranchised by the Democrats managing to suck up all political air on the left side of the US's Overton Window while actually having negative worth to leftist politics due to being functionally worse than controlled opposition. It's infuriating how they manage to simultaneously be so incompetent that they can't, and also refuse to do anything meaningful to improve people's lives.

Here's every Felix timestamp: 0:33 2:10 24:35 29:41 51:35

Somehow the Nelk Boys episode with Caitlyn Jenner seemed like a more insightful discourse on trans issues and allyship than this was…

They’ve been having too many women on lately. This is bullshit.

My partner started transitioning the week before the election and has been a justifiably anxious wreck since. Thanks for keeping trans people in the forefront. Fighting is the only option we have now.

Will is correct. There is a standard template for Democrats dealing with vulnerable groups. It is to torch them and use them as kindling so they can implement the exact same privatization schemes as Republicans. Trans people are finding out Democrats do not care about them. You can't trade the liberation of others for your own. Either everyone gets out or none of us do. If you ally yourself with people you know are already abandoning you after you just saw them put another group on a sacrificial altar, then you're foolish. Libs constantly ask "Why do conservatives vote against their own interests???" When literally every single Democrat voter is doing exactly that. Oh the party of betrayl for political power won't betray ME for political power. The UHC dude was doing direct action and it was more meaningful than whatever anyone here is going to learn or post about.

Shitheads: ERM. UGH. If you think that preventing trans people from having access to healthcare would result in massive deaths then you're a totally unserious person. The same shitheads behind closed doors: LOL 40% AM I RIGHT???

The trans era was thought provoking and I'm sure many lasting bonds were made. But the veil has been lifted on that.

Luigi may not have listened to chapo, but one of his college friends claims he listens to cumtown

I was nice of Will to ask Jael to give simple rebuttals to "balls in stalls" and the transwomen in sports arguments. Too bad she didn't and just ignored the clear question.

The impetus for radical action is sensitivity. It isn't being smart or tough. You will get people making bulldozer tanks and destroying their town and dudes organizing rural peasantry for guerilla war and others that light themselves on fire. The action can form before the rationale of the action. Some people just can't take it anymore even before they can reason why, or what to do. Frequently there is almost nothing any ONE can actually do. So the result is typically at minimum self destructive. These people are necessary.

Awful coverage. There are fake trans people and trenders and nonbinary people that destroyed the credibility of trans people

Really excellent discussion of the convergence of "natural law" environmentalism and right wing politics. DGR is Derrick Jensen 's organization, and it has been really interesting/horrifying to watch End Civ anarchism end up in the Purity of Essence camp

Lotta people in here grasping at straws so they can justify shitting on a trans person. Sadly, not surprising!

SOME THOUGHTS FROM ME, A TRANS PERSON: No disrespect but I think Jael is pretty feckless in this interview but I wasn’t expecting much from a former politico writer lol. I see a lot of people in this thread who clearly want to be better comrades to the trans people around them so here’s my two cents: I think one part of the larger issue is that we (the T in the alphabet mafia) as a community have not been able to form a coherent line of thought around our political and economic situation. There’s a lot of reasons for this but I do think it’s resulted in a) trans politics being arbitrarily absorbed by the HR PMC class and b) subsequent association of any kind of trans-friendly messaging with being scolded (and I think this is the seed of tying economic grievances to trans ppl in particular). I think this is an issue that we need to struggle with internally as a “community” but I think it’s important for cis people to know that we are just as varied in our beliefs, desires, and dreams as you. Most of us have the same economic frustrations as those who are pitted against us. Most of us have been fucked by the health insurance industry in some way. Most of us are far more concerned with our immediate material needs than the people around us having perfect etiquette or whatever. We have way way more in common with regular cis people than not. People have lived in contradiction with the cultural and physical expectations of their assigned sex at birth for as long as those expectations have existed in the first place. Gender variance is as natural as freckles or being left handed. If reactionaries in this country want to snuff that out, good fucking luck! If people want a good place to start for further reading, Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue by Leslie Feinberg is fantastic.

The fight for medical care is the broad issue that will cover both Trans people and Italians with back pain. Reactionary dupes will strain to formulate a progressivism that excludes trans people by using Republican talking points that only exist to ideologically sheath the policy of gutting health care and public schools as a whole even more than it already is. The trump anti trans ad only held any attention in the context of an immaterial democratic party. Going high when they go low only works when you have a material basis to lift you above the drooling culture war. The Dems cannot save anyone they are low inhuman vessels for capital. Also fuck John favreau, i piss on the pod johns, Sarah McBride can eat shit too, I support woke drug smuggling 🇮🇹🤌

Dismissing the UHC shooter as some dipshit then force feeding us more trans issues that 1) Haven’t happened yet, 2) only pertain to 2% of us, and 3) isn’t a matter of life or death. This is why you’re losing elections, and people like me are checking out from trans issues. Maybe platform someone who will discuss steps to improve the healthcare that affects EVERYONE. The trans stuff can wait 5 minutes.

In light of new info coming out regarding Mangione's political views, Anarchists got out-propaganda of the deed'd by a weird centrist. The Left is on damage control. The Right is smugly reaffirmed that Leftists are still as ineffective as they think. Mangione's too hot for women and gay guys to overlook his politics and will read Ted K unironically. Incels will be vindicated yet again Edit: After finally getting to listen to the whole ep, Jael seems just fine. Assuming a lot of people here aren't trolling, I really don't get what people are bitching over. A bunch of points people are throwing around are things Jael accounts for one or two sentences later. Hell, she even mentions in the ep that the reason why the they/them campaign ad worked has mostly to do with the way trans people, like any minority group* scapegoated in these kulturkampf panics, are presented as being an economic burden on the majority of people, which is by far the most dangerous angle of anti-trans rhetoric. *Even if trans people really only make up 2% of the US population as people are saying the comments, that's still 6 million people. What's especially bloodcurdling about the Democrats saying they won't budge unless there mass suicides is that, by definition, they are implying that they won't take action until there's practically nobody to advocate for it, which is about as good as saying they're siding with Conservatives

It’s depressing to see how many comments refuse to recognize a basic, bedrock position of the left- healthcare is a human right and trans people, as human beings, should enjoy equal access to healthcare. This shouldn’t be controversial, especially on the left, but here we are. A great informative interview- I’m happy to see the show take a stand for the rights of trans people. A left that leaves trans people to die from lack of healthcare access is no left.

Trans people : find a source of DIY HRT sooner rather than later just in case! Estrogen is readily available on the clear web, testosterone is harder to get but it’s doable. Get some bitcoin and read up a little. Or befriend an autist. Stay safe out there.

I found the answer to Will's messaging question bewildering. First you point out how it is a live or death question, and then you say well messaging is not my job. Reporters should ask question though? Like wtf is it life or death or not?

Why go on a political commentary show to discuss a politically relevant topic….only to then say it’s not your job to engage with the politics of said topic? If expressing frustration with that approach makes me a reactionary then so be it, because this guest was bullshit.

I think jael is way too kind to the democrats. They wrote doma. Obama and the Clintons had to be dragged to the point of supporting gay rights. With the collapse of the Obama rainbow coalition the democrats are cynically throwing trans people under the bus to remind the voters and the rest of the coalition what the consequences are of not supporting new liberal decay.

Going to bat for Sarah McBride, a frothing Zionist, is fucking WILD dude.

It’s totally uncontroversial that people WILL die as a result of these policies, despite many in the comments claiming otherwise. And it will be murder when it happens. The same social murder the United Health CEO was recently found guilty and sentenced for. My issue with this guest’s analysis is this: 1. we CANNOT fight this from home. Solidarity must be embodied by people standing shoulder to shoulder, IRL, and that involves bravely getting off our couches and meeting some new people. 2. We cannot expect to push electeds with the ease of a right wing parent education council. Their goals align with those of capital, provide it with an out and a scapegoat. Our goals do not. We inevitably face more friction and cannot reasonably expect a small group could influence government in the same way.

Actual action items since Jael didn't give much: -DSA has a national trans rights & bodily autonomy campaign, check it out -Tell your elected officials to protect trans healthcare and that anti-trans rhetoric will affect how you vote -Defend trans people when they get brought up (best strategy imo is the Felix method of "damn, you think about genitals and middle school girls volleyball a lot huh" -Research some of the more common talking points, focusing on trans people instead of cis perspectives. For example Parker Molloy has a great article called "fine, let's talk about trans athletes" -follow your state legislatures and find orgs in your area fighting anti-trans legislation -Help trans people in your area stockpile medication (idk much about this but it'll likely be necessary) like is done with abortion meds in red states

Who do I need to murder jael

I think we need a Stonewall 2: Drone The Police

Dems presented a problem - discrimination of minorities - and, being Democrats, did nothing to materially impact the problem in any way. Their solution has been purely rhetorical, and average people can only hear the same loop of empty talking points about societal issues for so long until they throw up their hands and say fuck it, I just want to stop talking about this! Dems refusing to actually do anything and only use trans support as a thing to say instead of enacting M4A has led Americans to view trans people as an empty void devoid of action instead of human beings who deserve good jobs and healthcare.

Got a lot of abolitionist circa 2021 energy from the guest: whenever an abolitionist is asked directly about violent criminals who currently exist, they don't really have an answer. A lot of Americans are uneasy about transitioning children; there is evidence that environmental contamination does affect the sexual presentation of some species; on the other hand, trans M/F advantages in sports can be easily overblown and to my knowledge the advantage disappears as treatment progresses. Would be great if we got some clear messaging

Lots of people in the chat like "why don't trans people tell me what to do", that's not what being a comrade is

godspeed all of my trans brothers and sisters who are about to navigate this potential nightmare. you are not alone! my hope is that in the coming weeks and months an actionable plan becomes clear and i and many others can organize around it. fuck trump, fuck republicans, fuck democrats, death to america

Jael seemed wholly unprepared to talk about the very thing they came on to talk about. Basically, "It's not for me to tell people how to talk about this, but 2% of the population will kill itself if nothing is done." Ok?? I also find it very ironic that she said it's important that journalists ask politicians directly about this issue...yet she quit her job as a successful DC journalist with a ton of access who could've asked politicians these questions directly.

Genuinely not trying to be a jerk here but by what kind of logic is political messaging on trans rights Will’s responsibility but not Jael’s? Don’t they both operate in the news media, broadly construed? That part (around 39:30) kind of threw me - am I missing something?

So, anyone else seen that Nancy Mace lesbian kiss video?

Love Chapo, but their aloofness around Luigi is weird. Dude did more to raise the class consciousness in 5 seconds than this podcast has in 8 years. Yes, there's some incoherence you can divine from what is bubbling to the surface as people scour his internet presence - seemingly liking Elon while writing intelligently about the excesses of corporate power seems contradictory and it is to an extent. But this kid is also an American in his mid 20's who's been forged in the crucible of American Capital Hegemony. We all tend to go through a "we can fix capitalism" phase before enough evidence stacks up and you realize it's not really a redeemable system. Shit, I used to admire Elon too. Perhaps he was somewhere along the same journey, but he held a particular ire for the health insurance industry. I don't know. No one truly knows at this point. But nothing so far about this guy strikes me as indicating he was just a complete nutcase who finally snapped. He looks to be quite intelligent and well read. Has travelled the world a bit. Seems to have real friends. The guys just laughing him off because he listens to Huberman and Rogan in spite of the bipartisan groundswell of working class sympathy and admiration he's been getting is bizarre. Not trying to suck this guy off or anything, but when there is more Marxist sentiment getting generated in Ben Shapiro's YouTube comments than Chapo is driving... wtf guys?

"The only way this bill is getting blocked is... a wave of suicides" - This rhetoric is so damaging and irresponsible. Please, cousins - don't commit suicide. There are lots of people in the world with extremely serious disabilities, and other extremely difficult problems, who don't choose suicide to escape their unhappiness or make a point.

It's clear by these comments and pretty much any comment section of any leftist podcast episode about trans rights that the left is not unified on this issue.

Wtf is this shit I came here to tell people to quit gooning and cum, not read about a bunch of losers complain about how the mssaging of trans issues made them transphobes. Quit gooning and go listen to Pod Save America instead. Trans rights are human rights, if you dont stand for that then you can be convinced to not stand for your neighbour.

Uh oh, a trans episode. Gonna be a normal one in the comments.

Bad analysis to tie anti-trans sentiment to broad skepticism about big pharma, since big pharma is bad and lies constantly and does stuff like the opioid epidemic.

I mean, if public suicides are needed to get Congress to protect my trans siblings, I'm ready to do my part

Damn with this and the whole “holding scapes” interview it’s a bad week for woke

“1-2% of Americans are trans” I want MFA but this is an unserious person

Sounds like they wanted to be on Pod Save America but Chapo is the only place to give space and a mic. L guest

thanks for covering trans rights, it's good to remember all the people the democrats fuck over and leave to the wolves for their benefit.

Disconnecting tax dollars from government spending in people’s minds would basically take away all republican arguments. That’s how they make every issue everyone’s business. Unfortunately, the household budget heuristic is so throughly entrenched no politician in congress can come close to messaging it effectively

What are these laws actually saying. That an adult cannot take hormones? Or that insurance or the gov can’t cover it in the case of federal employees?

i really appreciate that you guys have stayed so outspoken and willing to talk abt trans rights, it’s so refreshing to hear in a period of such intense reaction 🩷 thank you from a longtime trans grey wolf

I think the only path to getting niche healthcare is getting healthcare for everybody

This guy being a chronic pain guy makes 100% complete sense to me, it's so hard to get help for seemingly every chronic illness/chronic pain issue that it feels like a conspiracy. That usually drives people insane in a bad way, but this guy seems to have correctly identified the actual people at fault

Anyone have a problem if we follow the Scandinavian countries model on this?

"do something, talk to people, you matter" as the action item for trans people and those who care about them is insanely bad. When Roe was overturned the boys were talking about how we all might find the courage to help women get banned meds they need. Where's any remotely similar advocacy here? Just talking to support groups isn't everything and even more bleak than the nightmare coming for us is the idea that the only thing we can be offered is a security blanket to cry into during the torture

I don't know ac single trans person. Yet we can't stop talking about em 🤷

I take issue with the constant framing of this issue as life and death. It's overly hyperbolic and implies it's impossible for people to live out their preferred identity without hormone treatments. That's really not true as trans people have been around forever and these treatments are a modern development. A better framing is one of privacy, dignity, and personal freedom. These are things anyone can understand and identify with and have the benefit of being immediately recognizable as American values.

To be honest the only possible silver lining to the Trump win might be the full stop of child gender hormones and/or surgery.

“Trans issues, saying that was the whole election.” Democrats will really do anything to avoid talking about economic issues.

know it's kind of been a crazy week, but we couldn't get 30 seconds at the top of the episode on either the coup attempt in korea or the revolution in syria?

wow bad guest. how do you go on a podcast to advocate for something, get asked how people should advocate for it, and then just say "idk dude not my job"

i wonder if she could be even more condescending and self important

"There's a devil's advocate thing where the way to win the culture wars is to not play"? Felix, that has been *your position* for four years, and it's been broadly right! The whole theory that if you just let the Republicans freak out and point at them and say "wow, look at the weirdos and their obsession with genitals and bathrooms, huh" works, when tried!

Such a great discussion. Thanks also for making it free - shared this with my college age sibling and his friends who have been feeling a lot of the same frustration and fear, but don’t know what to do with it. Thank you again Jael and Chris and co.!

🫡 I'm loving this take like 'Extra judicial killings? Can't really speak on it, but smiling?!?! Ordering Starbucks and SMILING?!🫡

Nobody recognized the shooter. That's what they're saying to keep their actual methods of finding people classified.

Nice to feature a journalist knowledgeable about trans issues in the country come on a week after Amber talked out of her ass saying the median voter is probably cool with trans people so they’re probably safe.

Thanks for this interview 🥰

Oh so suddenly the top 1% is good?

Coherent beliefs? What are we, Communists?

Is “post that square on your grid” an IG reference?

Appreciate y’all having Jael back on & continuing to talk about this [esp as a trans chapohead] ⚧️❤️

Thanks for this important ep, love you guys

thanks for always standing up for us trans people guys ❤️ it really means a lot

I’m a little pissed Jael didn’t have a political message.

Now that Assad is gone I was hoping Felix would finally tell us the Truth About Syria

Liberal driller mentiond!

Thank you for talking about this. The abandonment of transgender and queer rights will be a black mark on this generation of legislators forever if they don't do their jobs and protect people.

i believe he wanted to get caught and has more stuff planned. a yt with his name and a photo of him with a happy meal posted a video saying that he was arrested, and that more info was coming on 10/11. account has since been nuked but i have screenshots of the vid and account

Saw Ekko Astral open for Ted Leo and it was excruciating. Just the set that would not end. I'm sorry you guys missed Revolution Summer or whatever

Fellas, go back and retry that cold open woof

christ if i never heard the word folks again itd be too soon

Love the Luigi's Mansion sting.

My snout descends

Will’s point about how someone even recognizes the guy is what really gets me. I feel like some people have the opposite of face blindness. I have a buddy who met another (very non-de script) friend of mine for all of 5 minutes in NYC, then a few months later ran into him in a dark venue in SF and immediately recognized him even though everyone in SF looks like him.

Trans rights are human rights

Thanks for doing this boys, you’ve got a lot of trans fans and we love you

I'm sorry but I will tolerate no irony, slander, poking fun at or Italian discrimination against Luigi Mangione. The man is a goddamn hero end of story.

Felix better never find himself in Altoona or he’s going to get stabbed at the Sheetz mansion by a guy who likes Altoona style pizza and has an Asmongold esque man cave filled with Mallo Cup wrappers.

He was applying for a McDonald’s credit card.

Poontenth

Hello

Ooh my swill is here 🐷 🐷 🐷

FILTH! I MEAN FIFTH!!!

first!!! go team chapo !!

Cool

First

Felix begins speaking at 33 seconds