Bonus Room: Twitch Drama, J.K. Rowling and the Democratization of Fame
Dear Debunkmates,
Happy almost-summer! Here at YWA HQ (phew that was a lot of letters) we're toasting marshmallows and cracking open our Stephen King paperbacks, and this episode seems in keeping with that pastime.
We like the episodes we release on our regular feed to know where they're going and take us to a destination, but this bonus episode, which started off about a particular story on the internet and expanded into a rambling discussion of the cultural world we apparently live in now, is more like a long talk about the fire.
Come roll out your sleeping bags and warm your pruney fingers by the crackling blaze. The Newsies singalong starts at 8.
With summer love,
Mike and Sarah
P.S. We get into some some self-harm descriptions so please proceed carefully!
Comments (147)
Sarah making a Regular Sized Rudy joke still gets me when I revisit this one. ❤
I really thought from the title/headline that "Twitch drama" was going to be about the Twitches Tia and Tamera Mowry 😅 But in rereading the Harry Potter books most recently, as is a tradition of mine, I was able to see some themes and characters through a lens that that this show has shaped for me, particularly by Sarah and her capacity for empathy. I'd always particularly loved Draco's character and his journey through the books as the mean, privileged child who grew up with the values passed to him by his parents and having his own family so deeply implicated with a movement akin to the far-right with upholding racial purity and superiority. We see the dramatic changes he undergoes through books 6 and 7 where it's like he is excited to be a part of this project as something bigger than himself which is part of his family's legacy and tradition where it seems that he can't wait to grow up and take on responsibility in an organization that has so much power...but when he's faced with the reality of what comes with these radical ideals, he hesitates and doesn't actually carry out the cardinal sins of what the HP universe considers to be evil. In the end, he and his family are more interested in self-preservation which, while to some degree could be considered selfish, is also motivated by familial love and might be a demonstration of how difficult it can be to extricate one's self once so deeply intrenched in a radicalized community. While the morals of good and evil or right and wrong are mostly binary throughout the HP universe and characters, the Malfoy family are some of the (very) few characters that are shown to be more complicated than the binary categorization normally implies. They aren't necessarily good or bad people--they've done good and bad things, maybe to a more severe degree than most, but they're human... and that's really something that we can see today in that a lot of us have loved ones who have been caught up in ideology that isn't so... ideal. It doesn't mean that they're bad people. Because as we've learned, particularly from this show, people are more complicated than that. ❤️
The whiplash I got from the choice of the name Kael for the first story 😭
You make me think of a theory my wife and I have that we call the "whedon affect" named after the very man ya'll point out as starting this whole dumpster fire. Basically it's when an artist in their prime is praised for being progressive because of their art, they will settle for whatever level of standards they are being praised for in that moment and then become scandalized when they are no longer viewed as progressive. Progressive is a verb, eventually you will fall behind.
I’m doing a deep dive of your back catelogue and am having a blast! I really like “Kale”, “Byron” and his girlfriend in Bulgarian- come for the super interesting and informative topics and be absolutely delighted by the empathy, insight, geek culture references and wit! Thank you so much for your time, effort and sharing your enthusiasm!
I have so many friends on twitch who should hear this ! Release the Kraken!!!
Please refer me to the episode where you talk about Fully Raw Kristina - also my problematic fave!
I really really want an episode about the Britney Spears Conservatorship. It’s the last infinity stone in the YWA Maligned Women of the 90s and Early 2000s gauntlet
https://youtu.be/WNWxtr3is6k Please do a Marlon Brando debunking. He was very outspoken on human rights and called on people to do and be better. I was blown away by this video and how this has been completely whitewashed from his legacy.
Also my name is actually Kale and the first half of this ep hit too close to home
I woke my cat up I HA'd so loud when I saw Kale
Love this ep overall, but have to disagree about the characterization of Rowling digging a hole for herself. To my mind, that implies a level of lack of awareness, like she’s trying to explain herself and accidentally makes it worse. She is a virulent transphobe. A lot of trans people have known this about her for years. It’s been on her Twitter presence for years. This is not a new thing that just happened accidentally.
Thanks for this episode. I read and loved HP as a young adult and then re-read it many many times. I read the entire series to each of my children. I was on the very last book with my younger child, a huge HP fan, when the JKR crap hit the fan. My younger child is trans. He is ten now and still doesn’t know about JKR being a TERF. I didn’t want to ruin his experience of the books at such a young age. But they used to be my comfort read, and I don’t think they ever will be again.
However some episodes I can’t listen to cuz I don’t even know who Tanya Harding is hahahah so some episodes I hav to skip cuz I just don’t understand. But man I do love u both and I have listened to some episodes many many times
Sometimes it takes me days to listen to an episode I fall down so many rabbit holes
I’m so grateful for this podcast man thanks for doing it. Literally saves my days sometimes
Hi guys! I’m a recent listener and just wanted to say thank you for all of your content 😍Would you ever think about podcasting about the Sophie Toscan du Plantier case in West Cork, Ireland? There was a recent Netflix doc made about it. I’m from Cork so have a more keen interest because of that!
I was thinking about this actually, they’d be great at dissecting it! Plus the element of Ian Bailey loving the fame and constantly doing interviews would be great (family from Cork, I’m from Dublin so also mad interest)!
Jerry Lee Lewis is still alive!
I just came here to say that the reason Filch doesn’t do magic is because he’s a Squib. Very different from Hagrid. I have other problems, but, we’ll leave it at that.
This was a super interesting episode, and I share your feelings about Harry Potter and how to engage with media with problematic creators. I loved the twitch drama section too - I worked for Twitch Prime (the amazon side of twitch) for a while and it's fascinating to think about from a psychological standpoint. I think the point about the democratization of fame is apt, but one thing I think is worth centering is less the fame aspect and more of the sort of democratization of intimacy that happens with streaming. There's also a large, mostly unwritten about connection between twitch streamers and sex workers that I think is fascinating. Not only do some sex workers have twitch streams, but they keep a strong divide between their sex cam work and their gaming cam work, and instruct fans not to blow their cover, so to speak. The dynamics of supporting creators and the way they structure their content is also similar, and it feels less like they're engaging with an audience for fame purposes, and more for meeting the emotional intimacy needs of the audience.
I still love Harry Potter Books and I adore the work that JK has done. And yes, while her views are controversial, I don't think it was right at all for people to send her death and rape threats. It's not like she's a Neo Nazi who liked to torture puppies.
Thank you Sarah and Michael for making Lockdown fun. Marlon Brando bought the island from "Mutiny on the Bounty" and turned it into an eco island, hotel and research centre, for the support of local south sea indigenous folk. Which was nice. xxx
a “leave brittney alone” cry—-what a reference! that just brought me back
I really enjoyed this episode! I read the HP books as an adult and I always had issues with Dumbledore pretty much from book 2 onward. I also really related to the whole "1/4 of the student body is evil" thing that went through the whole series, and how even at the end of the series, that doesn't change. It felt like there was no point to the entire war because nothing changed. That's pretty sad in a children's series.
This may not be the right place for this, and I’m sure Mike and Sarah are up to thier noses in show ideas….. but I was just listening to the Gary hart episode and you mentioned George bush (sr) and the “weenie factor” and I have heard about an issue of Newsweek long ago with the headline “wimp president”? Referring to bush #1 Anyways I’d love an episode about the wimp Pres :)
i really disagree with sarah about the kardashians! i think keeping up with the kardashians really ushered in this faux accessibility/authenticity expectation in a lot of ways
Your conversation about grappling with still being a fan of Harry Potter while simultaneously acknowledging Rowling's hateful views as well as the in text instances of problematic morality really remind me of the podcast "Witch, Please!" which is a delightful romp into critical thinking about problematic themes hosted by two able Canadian English professors.
Are you guys over doing these or something!? We only get one a month now it seems. :(
I think bonus eps have always been once a month?
Wah I miss regular your wrong abouts :(
Would love to hear an episode on Betty Broderick- seems like she’d fight the “maligned women of the 90s” category nicely
+1 definitely, Dirty John season about it was great, but I could use YWA take on it !
Ellen's phrasing here is fine, she is talking in the context of the media scrutiny toward females. Thanks, Ellen, for the suggestion.
This one would be a minefield of a bummer, but since y'all are interested in how the public eye treats women and girls, maybe Courtney Stodden? Even as a bonus episode. (I know they identify as nonbinary now, but since they were presenting as female when they had all the media scrutiny, I hope I chose the correct phrasing)
Hey! When referring to trans and gnc people, always use their current pronouns and name, even when referring to them pre-transition
I’m new to the Patreon but have been listening to the podcast for over a year now. Y’all got me through the pandemic! Loved this episode and your most recent on Cancel Culture. I really appreciate both of your approaches to the moral panic topics overall. Very eye opening and a refreshing perspective. Thank you both!! I look forward to future episodes.
Just listened to Cancel Culture! You might want to consider inviting Cancel Me, Baby! podcast creator Taylor Ferber to one of your future shows! Check out her latest op ed here https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5185634001
I just read the article and I thought it was illuminating, but maybe not in the way she intended. (Sorry for the novel, I'm procrastinating and I study intergroup dynamics - I just wanted to get my thoughts out after listening to the episode. You def don't have to read it or respond, because your beliefs are your beliefs and this subject is heated, I just wanted to discuss the article because I think it's kind of a great example of things). As someone who has seen the whole Chrissy thing from start to finish (as well as the morph of call outs/cancellation coming from Black twitter and become the cancel culture we know and love today) while on Black twitter, this article is ahistorical. This story actually echoes the episode, but in a way the author probably wouldn't like. A through-line in the episode was that the concept of "cancel culture" has been furthered by news outlets who deem what's newsworthy, and usually that comes down to stories of racism palatable for White audiences (aka with gray areas). Another mention was of people that get hurt from backlash and then cast their backlash as something epidemic. This writer was hurt by backlash, clearly, but also takes this same lens by completely ignoring the intergroup dynamics at play here. Chrissy Teigen was called out many, many times by black people for over a decade, and yet this round suddenly stuck once she alienated a lot of her main base (aka White women) by going after Trump. The writer consistently seems to omit facts for her benefit, including mischaracterizing things as black-and-white whilst she tries her best to appear impartial (that Planned Parenthood dig? What?). The story of Chrissy Teigen isn't some "weaponizing cancel culture" ish, it's that her core fans are mostly White wine moms and stuck around after she alienated everyone that wasn't. The writer's premise presupposes that everyone was content to ignore Chrissy's content, which they weren't - but because of the bias of the writer, because she needs it to fit her narrative, she fails to acknowledge the marginalized voices that have been screaming about her bullying for nearly a decade. And yet, it has to become "now you're listening! hmph!" when it's clear the reason people are listening is that her demographic (reading between the lines, given her comments about politics) finally cares, but doesn't acknowledge that her demographic is entirely similar to the demographics of the papers that gave her positive press. And yet, it's like the writer is stuck in a framework wherein she doesn't see the bigger picture because she's been so focused on the people who look like her who came after her. This is a story of everyone catching up to what people have been saying the whole time, but were ignored and brushed off when it happened because at the end of the day her fanbase didn't care. That article is pretty ahistorical, ignores the actual backlash Teigen got and it seems as if the writer is just centering herself like a lot of people who are "obsessed" with the idea of cancel culture. Like when I got to "In the end, this only hurts the causes they try to stand for. For instance, I interviewed an A-list actress who said we shouldn’t ostracize men from the #MeToo movement, but rather we should let them in so they understand. My editor turned down that angle because how dare we prop men up" my grift antenna went up. Like, are you really trying to tell me the editor did that because they hate men, or thinks everyone hates men to that extent? That comment was a pretty usual thing, and is prototypical of many social movements, including Me Too. Like how weird is it to imagine backlash in your head to the point that you completely miss the nuance (aka the argument is an age-old one about courting the "other side" and the real meat of it is about who is centered in the conversation)? Me Too has deliberately tried to include male victims of sexual harassment - why are you imagining furor about a blase statement aimed at a movement that has already tried to include men? (There's also a pattern of this happening with any "new" social movement, even MLK wrote about it). And yet it's twisted in a pretzel to be seen as an example of outrage when said outrage is purely theoretical, and largely invented to further the writer's own outrage and anxieties. And the weird comments about "we need to start a dialogue" when the dialogue has already been happening, she just wasn't present? If what she really wants is for non-victims to be part of the face of the movement, that's a totally different question than the one she's asking. It really seems to me like there's a lot of hurt from experiencing backlash that fuels a lot of the "stop cancel culture!" pundits. But instead of really working through that hurt, they instead advocate to insist that they're a part of some new concept, instead of just subject to more vocal people in many more ways. I could be wrong - I went in hoping that she was more...grounded in reality - but IDK, having seen so many reminders of what she's done go viral on Black twitter countless times over a significant part of the last decade - she seems firmly in the "op-ed writer hurt that she was hurt and now thinks the nation has an epidemic" column from the episode.
This episode is really great. I just wanted to add a comment that the joke about Twitch being "the straightest website on the Internet" isn't true at all.
I was thinking the same thing lol
It would be awesome if you had Natalie Wynn (contrapoints) on the podcast!
I keep seeing this in my feed and thinking “oh no, did JK Simmons do something bad?”
Me too! And my heart actually sunk
i am literally begging y’all to do a bonus episode on the cultural relevance and reaction to olivia rodrigo’s new album and how teenage girls are awesome PLEASE !!!! PLEASE
but if you can’t that’s fine
So it's hard with on line discourse. Popular Internet People don't have the benefit of a team of moderators to deal with things, and people are quick to assume. I'm glad Byron had a decent community following him and I hope the other guy is OK.
I am a moderator on a really active pop culture/ politics channel and the Twitch drama really spoke to me. The moderation team has had to deal with a lot of similar issues. We've had to ban users for weird stalking or trolling , etc. It can be hard when people in the community ask what happened - they have a right to ask and know, it's a community - but the people involved have a right to some privacy, too. Our channel has some pretty involved rules / policies and a system of warnings. And like 12 moderators. But projecting oneself into any on line THING to the degree that it's the most important thing on one's life can get really bad. Often the more active users who make (ugh, fine... for lack of a better word) "problematic" comments push away BIPOC or LGBTQ community members.
This is the discourse 2021 needs
Oh I’m pretty sure they meant raw beauty kristi lol
Lmao “raw vegan Kristina” I’m DYING
I thought they were going to say raw beauty Kristi I almost cried!
Plugging the best destiel video essay just for the mention this episode: https://youtu.be/oHbum2TBhqg
Yes!! Definitely
Love the Bobs Burger and The Office Reference
I grew up a gay person when it wasn't ok to be gay. Harry Potter literally saved my life (wanted to read the last book before I killed myself). I found acceptance in the books that I didn't have in my life. I am trans. Rowling has hurt me beyond belief with her terf nonsense. And her doubling down and digging deeper just continues to break my heart. Also I never liked Dumbledore I always found him controlling and manipulative to the point that I trusted Voldemort more and Dumbledore is a real piece of shit.
I feel that. My son has become interested in HP and he's 6. He has special needs and I am a teacher, so there's a lot of teacher parent stuff going on with me that basically boils down to "well, he's reading! he's interested!" My compromise is to allow him to enjoy the books and movies and not purchase anything that will give JKR any more money or amplfy her terrible views. I see things in the books now I haven't seen before, but I have a personal connection to the books I can't shake. I'm going to let myself be OK with that. Also, I love Dumbledore, but he is the perfect example of that trope about "IF you had just EXPLAINED this shit in the beginning...." I hope you are able to continue to enjoy HP the way you want.
Amazing episode thank you! <3
Harry Potter is bad, but it also led to the creation of Brad Neely's Wizard People, which shaped a significant amount of my personality in college
I just saw F. Lee Bailey died and needed to mourn here before anywhere else!
My 7-year-old son’s name is Cale!
I joked Hogwarts is the most well-funded, worst run school... ever. Also... Not in THAT feminist of set of books. Herminione was the smartest, hardest working character with no respect.
Also RE: Fame and familiarity. When I told my very good friend and editor to listen to your Stepford Wives episode I seriously said: "And you will love Sarah Marshall, she'd totally be our millennial girlfriend to brunch with". LOL
The Contrapoints mention made me so happy, I was yelling inside my head, "do they know about the JK Rowling and Cancelling videos? Do they??" until you mentioned her channel, haha. Also I watch a lot of Twitch and umm it's not the straightest place on the Internet, not by a long shot! The queer gamers and drag queens are thriving on Twitch. I really liked hearing the Byron/Kale story even though it made me a bit sad. Streaming didn't exist when I was young enough to potentially get emotionally tangled up with someone I don't really know, like Kale did, but I find it really relatable anyway.
Yayayayayayauauauauuayayayay- been waiting for my dose of YWA !! ❤️❤️❤️❤️🤗🤗🤗 made my day thanks guys
One thing I thought of when Mike, I think it was?, mentioned the difference between having an opinion, even a harmful bad one, and what Sarah said about celebrities is how Twitter broadcasts likes.., like Rowling really went off it in 2020 but she's been faving transphobic tweets and following outspoken transphobes for a while. And I know this because Twitter started showing you the tweets your followers faved and the people your followers followed. So even though she wasn't tweeting or RTing them, her faving them was putting them on blast. I hadn't been following her, but heard about it from some trans friends who grew up reading her books and were really hurt. And I saw some people trying to argue with her/convince her that this was hurtful and these were harmful people even back in 2018? whenever they started doing that "you're seeing this because X liked it" thing. Anyway, it's another weird way that having opinions, even if one doesn't say them aloud for years, can get broadcast thanks to the design of social media tools (and yes yes yes, it's not discrimination, it's just the appropriate response to a person trying to use their platform to make the world less safe for more vulnerable people).
Omg I love it when Mike talks about how J.K. Rowling isn’t being discriminated against for her statements but rather facing consequences for her statements. That can be applied to SOOOO MANY things! And I will being using that statement in the future!
Loved this episode! Re: Twitch streamers, influencers, and the sometimes creepy relationships that their audiences form with them, the horror movie CAM explores all of these themes from the perspective of a sex worker who does live webcam shows. It is excellent, although major content warnings apply for general scary themes and for some graphic depictions of self harm. The film’s writer, Isa Mazzei, was a cam girl for a while herself, and her memoir about those years covers what it’s like to have streaming your nude body be your job (along with personal reflections about her own life) — I couldn’t put it down.
Currently listening to this episode and pausing it to comment. The "authenticity" thing is also part of the big appeal of country music stars. (And yes, nobody plows a field wearing a rhinestone suit, but the fans generally think the country star came from a place they the fans understand and are familiar with.
Such a great listen—just what I needed today.
I love when you post bonus episodes because this patreon page is a place where i never have to tell myself "do not click on the comments. do not click on the comments." i feel like it's such a pure group of people.
I really appreciate the Contrapoints shoutout! Her videos use a lot of the same nuance that YWA has 🥰
I also did a covid reread (relisten to the audiobooks) of harry potter because i just wanted something that felt known and comforting. I knew jk was trash from the slightly more subtle transphobic shit she's said over the last few years, but i started them before everything in june, so i didn't have full context. But hoo boy, i did not need full context to realize that somehow as a child i totally missed that Rita Skeeter is literally just the biggest transphobic caricature of a trans woman. Like it's just right out there.
This covered so many niches of culture. I loved it! I'm going to immediately read academic papers about the Buffy universe now bc I just started consuming that content as a 30 year old, so thank you for that too.
Appreciate the discussion, super niche internet drama is one of my favorite topics haha. Most of the time I do see the emphasis being put on someone's response to whatever controversy they are a part of but I'm not sure I agree that this is a good thing or should be encouraged. I think we have to take into account that we do not respond equally to all people when they mess up. There is a certain privilege to being able to carefully construct a well written apology immediately after people point out your wrongdoing. I can't fault someone who is now on the receiving end of a barrage of racist or sexist messages for reacting defensively and not immediately apologizing, even if I think what they had originally done was wrong (obviously context is really important here. As you've discussed these types of incidents and the people they involve vary greatly)
So nice to have you both back. Been listening to WAD & MP too. You guys/gals are always enthusiastically 🔥
Drinking a glass of whine at the end of a long day and settling in with this episode made my ENTIRE week. The level of comfort is unmatched. I love you both so much. Thanks for the beautifully timed episode drop.
Omg! Sarah! Please guest on the Gayly Prophet podcast! Or at the very least I'd highly recommend a listen. They're a very good companion to figuring out what to do with the love of HP that you had when you were younger now that we all know that JKR is total trash. They would love to have you! (Mike too I'm sure! Just Sarah seems to have more of an HP connection)
You guys need to read a bunch of YA fiction and talk about it tropes. I found the discussion about Harry Potter is be really fun and would like a break down of series like the Hunger Games or Divergent.
Sarah Z just released this video today, and it feels relevant to this patreon episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y-t1PI-erM She goes into podcasting, parasocial relationships, and performativity.
I MISSED YOU SO MUCH
Missed you! Thanks for the great episode. My feelings on JK Rowling are so complicated because I LOVE Harry Potter and have read the entire series about twenty times. Which isn't to say I'm unaware of its flaws -- I could write a book about those flaws. I just don't care. And then JK Rowling herself starts saying all this anti-trans stuff and I've been trying to look away because I don't want to know. I also happen to be an author myself. (Fantasy fiction, mostly -- Harry Potter gets a name drop on the first page of my urban fantasy series. Did I mention I love it?) The last time I reread the HP series, though, I couldn't help but notice how much emphasis the book puts on dividing boys and girls into gender roles. So all this talk is getting into my head. Still, I agree with Dan Radcliffe. I'm entitled to love the art, regardless of my feelings about the artist. People who read my books (love or hate) rarely see in them exactly what I thought I put in there, and that's how it's supposed to be. It's not about me; it's about the reader and what they bring to the experience.
Aww, thanks! You can check them out on my website. https://christineamsden.com (I recommend starting with Cassie Scot: ParaNormal Detective, the first book in a series about a woman born into a magical family but with no magic of her own.)
Please note that all rational vegans can't stand Kristina!
This made my day. Thank you for posting. 🥰
Parasocial relationships. Big yikes 😬
Mmm listening to my bffs Mike and Sarah discuss the illusion of mutual friendship created by certain kinds of "authentic" media and getting a little red in the face 😅
I need Sarah to do a deep dive into FullyRawKristina
Maintenance Phase episode on raw veganism
I’m so happy you two took some well-deserved time off from the main show, but, damn, I squealed with glee when I got an email saying there was a bonus episode today. 😍
Props for the Bob’s Burgers Regular-Sized Rudy reference lol
Listening right now, and Sarah touched on a subject one of my other patreon subs wrote a song about, "Dumbledore is a dick"
My heart is so happy now!! My best friends are back!!! Yes someone can be your best friend without them knowing it!
at some point in the middle, Sarah or Mike quickly referenced a YouTube essay about fame, I think? I heard it and was like, gonna google that when I get home! but now can't remember anything about it. Does anyone else remember?
Not sure if this is what you're talking about, but here is the ContraPoints yt essay on JK Rowling: https://youtu.be/7gDKbT_l2us
Been missing you guys!! Love your skews on everything! Just got my stepmom into you guys too!! ❤️❤️❤️
I could listen to you guys talk about basically anything and it would be a delight.
My little sister has been saying “her job is twitch now” to me for months. Thank you so much for clearing up for me what that means.
So happy to see a new episode, and I am here for Twitch drama because it's such a complicated microcosm
My husband's name is Michael, but he goes by Chael (take the Mi from Michael, and that's what you get). It's pronounced like Cale, which I think is how it's most often spelled as a name. It's not a common name, so it was weird to hear Sarah come up with it as a fake name off the top of her head.
Bringing up Filch and Hagrid opened my eyes to the fact that in the Hogwarts world, not being magic-capable automatically relegates you to a menial career of physical labor.
I’m SO glad there’s a new episode!!!! I was feeling incredibly lonely without you guys!
My kids and a lot of their lgbtq friends are big Harry Potter fans, and they were all so disappointed and sad when they heard about Rowling's views. I think HP has been important to a lot of lgbtq kids and other kids who feel different or left out, so it feels like backstabbing to them. 🙁
This is an episode about the new buzzword parasocial relationships without ever using the buzzword parasocial relationships 😂
I really want them to do a deep dive into parasocial relationships and how long they've been around and the psychology behind them and why internet celebrities are not your friends, they are trying to sell you things!
hearing dean winchester mentioned by sarah stirred some indescribable emotion in me. might be similar to that time mike talked of “discourse”. i think i just discorporated. (loved the episode <3 would probably love supernatural talk but it would also kill me it’s a toss up really)
i was about to vocally disagree on the "straighest website on the internet" part but then i realized i never leave the LGBTQIA+ or drag tags so i think Mike had the right assessment here
HA I've only heard of Twitch because of transgender gamers in my life, so I had the same reaction XD
The most baffling element of Harry Potter to me is how she seemed to deliberately introduce all these power imbalances and abuses of other people (people who aren't magic, house elves, any sentient creature that's not a wizard etc) and then just... not do anything about it? Harry is extremely neutral towards all of these inequalities unless they start to affect him directly and stops caring about them as soon as the problem stops. It's a very odd status quo to uphold
Ironic how much that seems to mirror Joanne‘s behaviour 🙈
My point at which I started questioning HP (pre JK trashfire) was SPEW. She puts so much effort into making this comparison of house elves to slaves (which is already problematic in itself), and Hermione is upset about it and starts some activism projects, and everyone just ridicules her and is like nonono they *like* being enslaved! And then this sub-plot just... goes nowhere. Like what was the point of creating that storyline if it wasn't going to go anywhere, if the final takeaway message was just going to be "let them be enslaved, they like it"? Like wtf.
I don’t disagree with your point but just wanted to chime in to say I always thought it was intended as more of an allegory for women’s domestic drudgery than for slavery. SPEW seemed like an homage to the WSPU. Maybe it’s both!
i love you guys so much i’m such a fan girl literally SHRIEKED when i saw this in my inbox god bless u all
Living for the regular sized Rudy reference that was slipped in.
OMG Yessss me too 😂
If you guys ever want to do a deep dive into all the ways that Dumbledore is a villain, I am good to go. My Ted talk is ready
The Harry Potter thing that struck me most on adult re-reads is his obvious abuse/neglect at the hands of the Dursleys. Obviously his mistreatment was clear always clear to me, but the depth and the lasting emotional consequences it would have on Harry kind of missed me when I was young. At the time, I understood it as a mechanism to make boarding school easier. Terrible home life = no homesickness = independence and antics at school. Reading it as an adult, I was horrified by the way the Durlseys treated Harry and could not wrap my head around leaving him in that environment. I’d also like to contribute to the “Dumbledore is a villain” discourse for that point alone, ignoring everything else.
I have to ask-Sarah, were you making a Bob’s Burgers reference when you said “why do they call you regular size Byron, just look at me.” I’m a big fan of yours and a big fan of Bob’s burgers and it would make me very happy if this was an intersection of two of my favs.
that was my favorite part of the whole episode 😁
So much goodness here! If you want a fun feminist critical podcast on Harry Potter, check out Witch Please 😊 SO GREAT. I've listened to the first run from 2015/16 multiple times.
Came here to second the Witch Please recommendation. It's so good. https://play.acast.com/s/oh-witch-please Honestly, it is doing more than school ever did to teach me various theories, from feminism and queer studies to trauma and prison industrial complex. The class episode had the best explanation of Marxist theory that I have heard.
Oh boy. Y’all mentioning FullyRawKristina activated my fight or flight... That woman’s content was a huge factor in my developing an eating disorder, but she sure is hard to dislike. She’s so... sunshine-y.
I want a deep dive from Sarah on FullyRawKristina. There's soooo much going on around her. I've always disliked her, but I can see why people would like her.
Sarah and Mike, can we all please meet at a zoo somewhere, sometime?! 😆
I miss you so much! When is the next YWA episode???
I MISSED YOU IM GLAD YOU'RE BACK
Any Kalle Mattson fans out there 😳
My husband does graphic design for one of our local news stations and he said that over time, appearance and morality clauses have crept into everyone's contracts because of stuff like this. And talent sometimes has a hard time adjusting to the constant scrutiny of public life in the land of social media with fans that never, ever go away. They don't even have to do anything egregious. Sometimes a new haircut or weight gain sets people off. And this is not a big city like New York or Chicago. It's scary.
Loved this episode, and agree with Mike's take on the Gina Carano drama. I do think it's interesting to consider the expectations we place on people whose job it is to get TBIs for our entertainment - see also live interviews with obviously concussed MMA fighters.
YAY!!
Reminded me of Fame is ABUSE video w Broey Deschanel ! Highly recommend
I gotta say, this feeling of ownership about celebrities is not new. Just being in high society would have you constantly covered in the tabloids and Variety, because everyone wants to know that you're hanging out with other rich famous people. One misstep or scandal would destroy you in any era. The method and subjects have changed a lot, but I assure you there were plenty of gossip columns about every little thing Brando said or did, complete with outlandish speculation.
I think the important difference when talking about influencers and independent content creators is the lack of resources. These people generally don't have PR teams, they might have a manager but that's a big might. Smaller creators don't have the financial stability or network of a high society/Hollywood celebrity. So while the problem might look similar from the outside, the burden is 100 times heavier on someone who just makes stuff on the internet from their bedroom. SarahZ/marysuewriter did a great twitter thread on this a few weeks ago.
Yeah the Harry Potter reread as an adult tends to lead to wondering about a lot of the decisions of the adults lol. Dumbledore especially
And how Snape is kind of an incel... ughh 😓
So excited! Hope you’re enjoying your summer!!!
Now that’s how you fix a 10 hour road trip. Thanks!
Thank you for content warning 💜⚠️
"theres a chat room you know like AOL" lots of love from a zoomer 😂❤
Perfect timing!
Hi guys, the new bonus ep isn't showing up in my podcast app feed -- usually they do. Possibly Patreon has quietly deep-sixed the mechanism for apps other than their own one to download podcast eps. Possibly I am merely being incompetent. Or possibly there's an easy quick fix at your end? Yours, willing to install the Evil Patreon App if I have to.
The same thing is happening to me! I use Pocket Casts. David—any chance you’re also using the same app?
Saw this pop up in my notifications and I’ve never been more here for it haha. I love niche ass drama.
Yay so glad to see you back.
YES!
Waiting for the YWA camp out 🔥
YAAAAAAAAAAY