September Bonus Room

I know I’m really late to this party, but Sarah, if you see this, check out the A+ public school model. You’d like it a lot. I only know it exists because my kids go to an A+ school and we really love it. It means Arts + and the focus is on multiple intelligences, so kids are encouraged to learn the different ways to be smart. It fits excellently with what you were speaking about.

Red blooded American men drink oat milk https://images.app.goo.gl/eLkoDNRKuK5NjdNE9

lol Mike is a kinsey six. the range is zero (entirely heterosexual) to six (entirely homosexual)

Love the show, however, what really bothers me is the lack of good information on psychopathy. I would suggest talking to a psychopathy researcher, someone who truly understands the syndrome and its relationship with ASPD. I would be happy to send some peer reviewed papers.

If you ever do that episode on participation trophies and "self esteem parenting" I strongly recommend The Myth of the Spoiled Child by Alfie Kohn. All of his writing is great, but that book very much feels like a Youre Wrong About episode in that he debunks a lot of lazy popular media outrage stories that rely on anecdotal evidence and common assumptions.

Gifted kids were just really good at fitting into the mold of what the educational system wanted kids to be: easy to teach, well behaved and (ideally) from the suburbs. Gifted kids meant more funding for the school but in my GATE (gifted and talented education, smh) classes as a kid we weren't challenged or encouraged to explore or learn new subjects. If the goal was to give us extra attention to help us develop into functional adults then why did I have to diagnose my own ADHD at 25 ? I really hope y'all do an ep about this

I grew up in Seattle and was also in the "Horizon" (later renamed "Spectrum," I think?) program. I vaguely remember being tested in kindergarten, and I moved schools for first grade to be in the program. I hadn't thought about it really just being a program for kids who are good at taking tests, but that's basically what it is. I want to hear all about your experience, Mike!

Hi I really enjoyed this episode, I’m someone who was considered “gifted” in school and just a few months ago got a diagnosis for adhd and autism so I agree with Sarah… you should do a you’re wrong about gifted children!

Es⁰⁰0

I so empathize with Sarah’s early math learning experience. It was incredibly frustrating because I LOVED all other subjects, but the attention required to be good at math was, for me, almost impossible. Also diagnosed with ADD (I don’t think the “h” had arrived yet in my childhood) but never medicated. Our gifted and talented program was GATE (Gifted and Talented Education) and I remember attending for a few weeks and, like, doing puzzles. Due to aforementioned diagnosis, I found it untenable. Love y’all ❤️🧲❤️

I think I spoke my entire PhD to my friends to try and get it honed down. Most helpful thing ever.

Having similar research music tastes as Michael, can I recommend an Australian artist you may not know? Flume is a fun electronica dude :) https://open.spotify.com/album/2Vx9FC6Um8i6kEtY7HNswB?si=x-NJZGdQTSOsKBBFSZdzNw

I would love a Sarah and Michael research playlist ✨🙏🏻😎

I pod surfed from I weigh to Maintenance phase to You’re wrong about and I’m so happy that I did! I’ve been listening to you guys every day to and from work! Even though you have serious subjects, listening to you makes me happy. I love your dynamic 😍. Yesterday I listened to the last episode and realize I had no episodes left to listen to. The despair was eminent. Then I remembered that I’m a Patreon since a couple of months and realized I do have episodes to listens to! Boy was I a happy camper! And to now find out that Sarah is a fellow Disney hits lover, I’m quite beside myself 😅😂. Ps. I’m from Sweden and it’s funny how often you talk about our little country 😁.

Good episode and I'm so glad Sarah named that NYT Mag story on blood spatter analysis as a favorite long-read. That story is outstanding - I read it when it first came out and was blown away. I just went back and re-read it. Heart-wrenching story great reporting.

Omg! Yes! I believe all children are gifted, too!

When Agnes told me she lived in a delated child's swimmin' pool, my heart nearly broke in two. And I decided to build her a new house, shaped like a Chick'Fil'A.

I was a gifted child, and for me it ended up being a weird kind of 'special needs' situation. Like, obviously it isn't a *disability*, as such, but I still needed individual attention and tailored programs, I got singled out a lot and bullied a little bit for being different, and I was battered around by internalising other people's prejudices of who I was and how I was supposed to act (and hold out absolutely no hope that media representation will ever get better on that front. If you are intelligent, you are either selfish and abrasive, or socially incompetent, because emotional and cognitive intelligence are a dichotomy, apparently). It also gave me a weird relationship to privilege, because like clearly I have it, but you can still be 'outed' and get to enjoy the unpleasant sensation of people's conception of you changing. It sounds like Sarah's experience with it was probably easier than mine.

RE: You’re Wrong About Gifted Children - I loved listening to Nice White Parents this year, a podcast about equity in New York schools. I hadn’t considered before how white parents desire to grab up resources for their children (gifted programs, mentorships, etc) is stealing resources from other students. Definitely a huge issue that I’d love to see an episode on!

I can't express how much I love y'all. The more I listen, the more I love you!! ❤️❤️❤️

So Richard Dreyfuss as Matt Hooper in Jaws was kinda sexy, right?

The Berenstein/“Berenstain” Bears

I am only commenting because I just noticed there is another Fallon in the YWA community. So I'd just like to say, hello fellow Fallon!

RE: you're wrong about gifted children, Stuff You Should Know did an episode on child prodigies that was really excellent. Basically kids who get propped up as prodigies in childhood don't tend to adjust super well or thrive later later in life.

Some ideas I’d probably enjoy an episode on: Liz Taylor’s connection amfAR and being more than a actress, Tayler Swift/Katy Perry feud, keshas/jojos legal issues, San Francisco’s housing crisis, Ferguson, Rebecca Black, dating apps success rate, big tech marketing/privacy issues, the flavor blue raspberry, award shows, the film rating system (Hayes code), or any music or video game rating system, mortal combat, standardized tests, ET video game, Latter Day Saints, Cinco de Mayo, WWI.

When you look at desegregation in schools, please investigate Shaker Heights in the Cleveland area, which touts itself on a neighbor-led bussing initiative but then saw massive flight to the elite private schools. When I was in high school in the aughts, there was approx. 51% Black students, 48% white, but the school offered 24 APs, and classes were heavily stratified. AP classes offered a 1.0 GPA bump (a B in an AP was a 4.0) but you only got the bump if you took the AP test, and students were responsible for paying out of pocket. A full AP courseload would cost ~$600 in May. Shaker is a suburb of Cleveland, which is routinely the poorest or second-poorest city in the nation.

OK guys it's time we get serious... What dating apps do you prefer and why?

Hey just joined your patreon! So excited to be a part of the community. I mentioned this to Sarah on twitter, but plugging it here as well. I'd love to hear your take on the branch davidians. I feel like everyone only really knows them from Waco but just a quick once-over of their wiki makes me think there are probably a ton of really interesting themes to dig into if you look at the Davidian's overall history (including waco) rather than simply the event itself.I think the topic has a lot of themes that fit with the tone of the show: religion's treatment of women; power struggles in small sub-cultures; what constitutes a cult vs a religion; what the media may have gotten wrong about Waco / the branch davidians in general; the role and failings of law enforcement to name a few.

Michaels Joke about Ronald Reagan's slogan being "Everything Floats Down Here" made me laugh for a solid 10 minutes. It was so custom made for me! I would love to hear your thoughts about generational differences between Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z. Maybe it's because I was born in 1978 so I don't really have a generation I fall easily into (I've seen data saying I'm both an X and a Millennial) so I'm just curious about your thoughts about this.

Listened to killer clowns episode and thought I'd mention there is a fun horror movie called The Tripper where the killer wears a Ronald Reagan mask. Highly recommended for amusement.

Amanda Knox is an obvious choice

Ooh I feel like Alcoholics Anonymous would be a good topic!

I would LOVE episodes on: Jimmy Savile, organic food, Waco, FreeBritney, HH Holmes, YouTube algorithms and Elsagate, and SIDS.

I just want to point Sarah to season 1 of the podcast Faded Out, on Johnny Gosch, in discussing and debunking Satanic Panic. The host talks a lot to Johnny’s dad and others involved in the case to change the narrative Noreen came out of, which spawned so much of the Stranger Danger narrative.

I would LOVE an episode on Sigmund Freud! I think it would be such a good addition to your content on Michelle Remembers.

Bibliographies?

I’m curious how often you guys are physically together (pre COVID obviously)? Ie is the live ep the only one that wasn’t recorded via Skype?

Maybe you should do about the FDA. Maybe people think it has been around forever, but it was only created in 1938 in response to an untested Massengill formulation that killed 107 people. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/01/the-accidental-poison-that-founded-the-modern-fda/550574/

Loved hearing about the killer clowns. Surprised you didn’t cover this incident from 2016. I heard about it because he used to be partners with the clown that visits the pediatric hospital I work at. For a while we had his picture at our security desk. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/clown-menaced-teen-knife-victim-paranoia-article-1.2830575%3foutputType=amp

Mike, are you a millennial who owns a printer? And if not, how do you organize your research notes?

As true crime evolves as a genre, do you think that there is more interest to include non-murdery crimes/close calls and systemic crimes of the state told by survivors? I used to hate true crime because it didn’t find women’s lives noteworthy until they were dead. I began to enjoy “true crime” this year when I read “The Third Rainbow Girl” by Emma Copley Eisenberg and the “Unspeakable Acts” anthology that Sarah contributed to. (Which is so good and everyone should read!)

*apologies if that's an inappropriate term. It's what comes out of the depths of my head... but also I'm listening from Ireland where "redneck" is not a local term... though we have plenty of other similar short hand stereotypes similarly lacking nuance.

Instead I found someone articulate, compassionate & interesting who displayed bravery beyond what I think I am personally capable of... and who manages to write beautifully too. I don't think I've ever read something that's made me feel more "You're Wrong About". I would love to hear you guys review it.

So I recently read Unfollow by Megan Phelps-Roper. And found my wrongness shameful, as I had unconsciously assumed - without any critical analysis - that (a) people in cults were dumb rednecks* and (b) If I was in that situation I would just leave.

Probably not enough for a whole episode but I would like to hear a You're Wrong About Satanism. I'm aware that it is a real religion and that it's nothing like the media presents.

Voter Fraud can you do an episode? It seems very prescient now!

If You're Wrong About wanted to shift gears and do an episode about Ancient Sparta (or the movie 300), Bret Devereaux's collection of "This isn't Sparta" posts would be a great starting point

Hello,

The fat free food boom. I am still upset that my mom got rid of Oreos and started buying Snack Wells.

Kind of a silly one, but personally I'd enjoy a and episode or a minisode on "you're wrong about OCD" (and probably a host of other MH diagnoses... it's just that OCD is my one!) X

The “Grit” psychology grift in K-12 education and the wealthy donors who (surprise!) LOVE to fund programs to be “tough” on vulnerable children for “their own good.”

We are wrong about TESTOSTERONE. We are wrong about THE FEMALE BRAIN. These myths are ripe and ready for take-down. Scientist at your service, call me

I mentioned it in a message I sent y'all, but I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about the Radium Girls

Random stream-of-conscience hopes & dreams of topics: The US vs. The Metric System, Hilary+ Benghazi, Flat-earthers, climate change deniers(history of deniers in politics and/ or business... is this another nugget from Reagan?), The Shroud of Turin, Organs (and/or other strange things) on the Black Market. PS - I am a relatively new listener and if you have already done of of these and I haven't heard it yet, Sorry!!!!! Thank you so much for sharing your minds with the world. Love the show & your writings!

okay here's a good one: the assassination of yitzhak rabin. dude was assassinated, but a surprisingly large amount of people think it was a conspiracy. like, a very large amount of people. and there's a ton of theories as to what actually happened, like a staged actor firing a blank and causing rabin to have a heart attack and die in the car. or that there was no assassin at all and rabin just shot himself. real weird stuff

I would love something along the lines of International v domestic adoptions in the US; what fuels the decision for people, how racism factors in, etc!

I would LOVE an episode about red dye 40! 😂

I would like an episode about conspiracy theories

I would love an episode about homeschooling, an episode about Natural Family Planning, and/or an episode about the Quiverfull movement. They often seem to all go hand-in-hand.

I really enjoy your episodes about topics I thought I knew a lot about and learning so much more, and loved your episode about Stonewall for that reason. I'd really love an episode laying out what really happened for feminist events in history, e.g. the famous bra burning or Valerie Solanas and the SCUM Manifesto.

Can we be wrong about adoption?

I would really like to see you do an episode on the opioid crisis. The narrative pushed by the media (prescription opioids as the culprit) has been extremely misleading and there’s data to support this. You could do several episodes on the war on drugs really. Keep up the good work!!!!

I think Andrea Yates would be a really good episode. Most people don't know that her husband knew about all her issues and had been warned to get her help like two years before she killed her kids. He was also involved in fundamentalist christianity which.. isn't a great place for struggling mothers.

My suggestion for a big topic is the opioid epidemic. My suggestion for a smaller topic is the emergence (if that is even true) of food allergies,

Cute animal episode suggestion for Michael: hoaxes, cons, and urban legends involving animals. Micropigs, jackalopes, giant bumblebees on leashes, SINA. AMA question: what do you think are the differences, if any, between conspiracy theories and theories about conspiracies?

I've just finished the Jessica Simpson open book and I thought you should know that Danny Pellegrino celebrates #JessicaThursday every week on his instagram account and it has always been awesome, but now you've made me love her it's even more so.

I'd really love to hear you discuss what we are wrong about Darwinism! I imagine there's a lot to say about how the theory of natural selection has been misappropriated as a justification / explanation through history - plus the theory's place within the religion v science conversation. I'd LOVE to hear you guys take it on!

I was tested for my school district’s “gifted program” four different times between 1st-7th grades. The only thing I remember about these tests were that they were very puzzle heavy, which I hated and were no doubt the reason why I never scored high enough to get in. I was really sore about it as a kid, because I had so many friends in the program who were my equals in our regular class work. Now as adult, I can see that the kids in the gifted program ended up faring no better or worse than those who weren’t in it. Maybe there was a slightly higher admission rate to our state’s top public university, but not much else. Now I see the gifted program as a way to make a certain kind of parent feel better about their kid and the public school they attend. On a different note, I would love to hear Sarah’s thoughts on Romantic Comedies. She’s given me an awful lot to think about in the way we handled tabloid scandals and maligned women of the 90s. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that formulaic rom-coms had their heyday during the same decade.

As an Australian, I would love to hear a "You're Wrong About Australia" from the point of view of what American's usually thing...

I've just realised that I would love an episode on the Occupy movement, partly prompted by the very sad death of David Graeber, but also because I've forgotten all about it.

Wow the gifted children discussion was like a therapy session I didn’t know I needed.

I just became a subscriber and the $2 a month is already worth just the discussion of sociopaths/psychopaths in this episode. I am a therapist and I have been SCREAMING about this to anyone that will listen for YEARS. I would love a whole episode on this. You could go into how psychopathy “tests” are used to justify mass incarceration, how neuro-atypical folks are stigmatized by the “lack of empathy” explanation for violence, and how the diagnosis of Antisocial PD is problematic in the first place, the way PDs are stigmatized even by mental health professionals, SO MANY THINGS!

Next AMA - would love to know your recommended seminal readings on feminism, sexism, misogyny and just generally good and accessible social science books. Also, if you’d like to tie it into recent podcasts, could do an episode on victims rights in the American court system; specifically sex assault victims’ rights and whether they usurp (or don’t) the rights of criminal defendants. See Epstein and federal prosecutors circa 2008 and the Crime Victims Rights Act. Paul Cassell, Meg Garvin, and Doug Beloof serve as leaders in this field.

Might I suggest you two look into rehabilitation centers in America? The model, the legal loopholes, the effectiveness, the free labor, the tax exemptions. I have so many friends that struggle with addiction and some have cycled through rehab over 10 times. Still no sustained sobriety. Yet a lot of exploitative practices. Between the role of pharmaceutical companies, churches, the legal system, poor regulation... Could we all be wrong about the willingness of rehabs to actually help people? Or maybe they do help people, but they suck in a lot of ways. Or maybe I'm wrong and just conditioned to think everything in America is designed to keep poor people poor, sick people sick, and powerless people powerless.

I’ve gotten a lot of flack over the years from friends and family regarding the fact that I simply do not listen to the lyrics in songs, and I was DELIGHTED to hear Mike say the same! Thanks Mike! I know a lot of people have mentioned the “gifted” thing here, and I’d be interested in that as well—specifically if you can dig up anything about it may correlate to self esteem issues. My 10 year old stepdaughter is “high ability,” but she has this constant anxiety about the possibility of losing that designation that’s very heartbreaking to witness. I worry about what it’s doing to her. She seems to feel like that’s such an important part of her identity. We’re working on helping her with this issue, but I’m sure she’s not the only kid to struggle with this. I’m curious what the long term effects may be. Thanks for everything, Mike and Sarah!

I have a suggestion for a topic - would you consider an episode on the Lockerbie bombing? I was a little kid in the UK when it happened, and a Pan Am jumbo being blown up over Scotland was scary enough! As I grew up, I encountered about half the UK newspapers saying that the official version of events was rubbish and that the main suspect was being used as a scapegoat - the other half of the press disagreeing. Then when Blair reached some sort of deal with Libya, the sceptical half suddenly all seemed to dring the Kool-Aid and swing behind the "Yes, he did it, extradite him!" narrative.

FYI the file names for the bonus episodes have the "#" character in them which breaks them on my phone and I have to manually search for them and rename them

Thank you for dredging up the long-buried trauma of the President's Physical Fitness Test, jesus christ. Michael, I look forward to your article ripping it to shreds.

Not a question but a suggested topic: have you ever thought about covering the Canadian seal hunt? Most Canadians have a much different take than Peta et al. I highly recommend the 2016 documentary Angry Inuk by Alethea Arnaquq-Baril. Also, here's an article from the National Post that covers the basics: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada-is-never-ever-going-to-stop-killing-seals-your-tell-all-guide-to-the-seal-hunt. Thank you. Love the show!

And what histroical figure would you go on a date with?

What's the Johnny Carson wrong about?

Hello, I think I remember Mike saying he lived in London for a while, I’d love to hear him talk about his perception of the media over here in the UK and how he thinks that compares to the States, within the context of the themes of the show. :)

In regards to the gifted vs dumb label I have a weird convoluted relationship with that. Before kindergarten or 1st grade I had testing done and because I was too shy to interact with the test giver I scored really low. So through out elementary school I was sequestered in a class with children who had behavioral problems and mentally handicapped. I didn’t understand why I was with these people because I knew I was smart. Then my parents moved me from public school to private and suddenly I was a smart kid that just needed a little help with math. When choosing a college I choose the one that was known for being hard because I wanted to prove to everyone that stupid Kristen will prove you all wrong. In hindsight that was a silly reason to choose a college. I’d love to go back and re-do my high school and college years. All through Elementary school I wished my mom would homeschool me. It was the 90s and wasn’t as popular plus even now my mom personally doesn’t agree with homeschooling. Actually the homeschooling craze would be an interesting story. I’d love to know why Christians have monopolized it. How is that affecting the knowledge and abilities of these generations? What the absence of these children is doing for Public schools? How the homeschooling lobby refuses to allow states to regulate it? The potential for child abuse to go unreported because the kids aren’t around other adults. Potential of more unvaccinated children and therefore the resurgence of diseases. I heard that there is Russian interference in some popular homeschooling websites. Wow, this seems more like a series of episodes content rather than one hour long episode.

I like to think that this podcast is changing this narrative: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/nyregion/sophia-farrar-dead.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Obituaries

Welcome to your your wrong about... The show which is like a big warm blanket even though the presenters talk about dead babies, celebrity murder trials and human trafficking

I found some more creepy psychiatric drug ads from the 70s. This is a world of horrified joy for me now https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/28/weird-psychiatric-ads-of-the-seventies/

Have y’all ever listened to American Hysteria? There’s a lot of thematic overlap with your show!!

I SO think you need to make an episode about the "gifted/talented" label (maybe other education labels, too...special ed, etc). As a person who had the GT label in school and is now confronted with these concepts as both a parent and a primary teacher, I have major issues with the social and personal implications and long-term impacts of these labels.

i read an article on the Hechinger Report about how nearly all of New Orlean’s elementary schools converted to charters in the wake of Hurricane Katrina and the percentage of black teachers dropped dramatically in the process then I had a dream where I told Mike about the article. so maybe that?

Love the discussion about brands spending resources to quash their own popularity with 'undesirable' demographics. I seem to recall Tommy Hilfiger doing this in the '90s, and if I recall correctly, it actually got them a lot of bad publicity and led to a marketing U-turn.

This was so fun and great to listen to! I would listen to Sarah read her favorite old Playboy articles voraciously. I solicit sponsorships for the non-profit I work for and heard that ad Sarah read for this episode as not really for the readers as much as for the possible advertisers who are trying to decide if they will buy a full-page ad to sell their expensive fancy products. But yeah, I also read Seventeen magazine exclusively from the ages of 11-13 and realized that's who it was really for when I was 14.

I feel I need to know what’s Sarah’s take on Portlandia!

Was doing some image googling for work stuff and came across this image just now, immediately thought of Sarah's 8th grade teacher (do links work here?) https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lestoil-zeerust_5334.jpeg I would love further discussions in the vein of the Stepford Wives ep on the projected societal role of women in the future etc.

Also Sarah, as you’re a wee bit obsessed with dead baby news, did you ever see the film Mother? if so what did you think? I didn’t love it but I wanna know your opinion!

idk if this would be “you’re wrong about” enough but with the recent bella thorne scandal i thought an episode about OnlyFans and the wave of cam/cumstom internet video porn over the last 5/10 years. When I was doing SW people constantly bombarded with with questions about how much girls can make but the truth of the matter is these companies take such a big percentage and censor content so much it’s making the internet more like being back out with a handler than the free kind of platform it promised to be for performers

I will add a question: So focused these days on the extraordinary time in history where literally our democracy is being fought for in the streets of Portland etc what I would like to know is : What people or events today would become "You're wrong about" episodes 20-30 years from now?

Sarah in particular, I am SO curious about how you feel about accessibility as the show gets more popular and you have increased renown. Do you feel weird about all these people who feel like they know you through the show? Especially since you've been open about making friends online in various spaces, do you feel like you have to gate yourself off at some point?

Who are some of your favorite fiction writers?

Morbidly curious, maybe as a bonus room bit rather than a full episode-- "you're wrong about periods" has been well explored elsewhere, but I'd never heard of the Courtney Love "she had her period at him" bit before your episode, and what other bizarre myths have people (recently) sincerely believed?

- Seconding gifted students/tracking/ segregation. These narratives affected my schooling in ways I'm still unpacking.

Oh hey, I have ADHD too! Didn't get diagnosed until 26. Often wonder what meds could have done for me at school. There's a whole thing about girls being massively underdiagnosed because it displays a little differently, and because we're socialised to be quieter and more compliant. Lovely episode x

Really loved this!

Please do YWA influencer culture, maybe guest host Taylor Lorenz??

The Playboy stuff makes me want to know what are some of the vintage ads you've come across (in research or otherwise) that you've really enjoyed or that really horrified you.

I’ve loved your coverage of music phenomena and figures—Courtney Love, disco demolition night, Jessica Simpson, etc.—and, of course, your whole maligned women slate. Curious if we’ve been wrong about groupies?

I went to college at a super evangelical school and, for a few years in the early 2000s, INVISIBLE CHILDREN was a HUGE thing on campuses. Haven’t heard anyone talking about it in awhile... Listening to the sex trafficking episodes has me wondering how that primed Christianity for this... I also remember the founder had a psychological break?

Hello! New Patreon member here. Love your work. My friends and I are in lockdown in Melbourne Australia currently but want to do a You're Wrong About drinking game when we can - drink every time Mike says "oh fuck" or "holy shit" and when Sarah shows empathy (usually signalled with "aww"). Anywayy... As an Australian I still don't know the full story about Lindy Chamberlain (the dingo took my baby woman) who became known worldwide when her daughter disappeared.

Hi YWA! Thank you for these bonus episodes, I'm really enjoying them. I have a kind of meta-question. When you set up your Patreon originally, you talked about how you didn't want to be "the kind of show" where subscribers got more stuff than regular listeners. What made you eventually decide to do bonus subscriber episodes?

Topic Idea: Netscape navigator. Did Microsoft kill it? Love your content about institutions -- e.g Enron / CPSC.

Based on the comments of this post alone, I think you guys should do some kind of poll to determine what percent of your listenership were either designated themselves as gifted, or their kids were. It's almost like all the white people with access to books are gifted! I was homeschooled (West Coast Style) so we were naturally all gifted

Really appreciating hearing Sarah talk about the issues with terms like psychopath and sociopath. As someone who feels similarly, but who is unfortunately into true crime, it's exhausting constantly hearing people armchair diagnose people as "psychopaths." It definitely happens with some legitimate diagnoses as well—I can't count how many times I've heard abusers described as having borderline or narcissistic personality disorder without really considering what that means. Of course, saying that lets you pretty easily write people off as irredeemably evil, without thinking about the specific circumstances or cultural factors that may lead to abuse. And, of course, it reinforces the stigma for those of us who do have socially unacceptable forms of neurodivergence. Anyway, thank you for spending some time with this topic! Always appreciate hearing your takes on things.

There was a scientist; young German up and coming guy, Jan Hendrik Schön who was found out to have been faking a whole heap of data around 2002, and publishing (hold on to your hat!) a Science or Nature article every week. From memory, there was a woman who dedicated months to investigating, with little support because he was such a messiah, and found that the background noise in some data sets apparently taken on different days was identical. I wonder what happened to them both, at the time and in the aftermath.

Not exactly related, but I'd love bonus room content in the form of Mike making a disco playlist.

The whole part about children being gifted, and linguistically inclined children being forced to continually struggle through math hit a little too close to home, and made me start crying. I just want to go back in time and hug little me so tightly...

I loved the lightning round questions - thank you for doing these!

Counterpoint to the giftedness conversation from the parent of an academically gifted child: children who are genuinely on the far end of the bell curve of intellectual ability can be a straight-up nightmare for the average teacher and classroom. There are other traits associated with intellectual giftedness that requires special training to deal with effectively. Specifically things like asynchronous development. So you can have a fourth grader who is reading at the college level but is emotionally immature and doesn’t understand how to collaborate with peers. My kid getting shuttled into the specialized highly capable class was the best thing to ever happen to us. Before that we got daily phone calls from his teacher who was at wits end about what to do with him. At any rate, there is a way to approach “giftedness” similar to special education that can keep these kids from devolving into the classroom menace.

Y'all are so fun to listen to. <3

Oh man, I just found this in a BBC article on feral children about a child raised by dogs, “ Her parents were alcoholics and one night, they had left her outside. Looking for warmth, the three-year-old crawled into the farm kennel and curled up with the mongrel dogs, an act that probably saved her life. She ran on all fours, panted with her tongue out, bared her teeth and barked.” This reminds me of the “Leopard Boys” in Africa in Michelle Remembers - didn’t Sarah say something about how humans won’t do things like this because it just doesn’t work for us to walk on all fours? I feel like there would be some good debunking down this rabbit hole!

I remembered the story of “Genie” the feral child recently. Since it was something I learned about in an early 2000s high school psychology class, I am prone to thinking something was conveyed incorrectly there haha. Maybe an episode on “feral children” in general (that’s the term we used for them, I guess). Also “addictive personalities.” I feel like that is made up? Don’t we all have addictive personalities to some degree, especially if you try the right drugs or are in the right (or wrong) social circumstances. I don’t want to discount the seriousness of addiction, but is being prone to that really a personality trait? Really anything wellness related. I know “The Dream” podcast did a whole series about the wellness industry but a deep dive into any of these topics would be great. What about cleanses or water drinking? Or multivitamins?

This podcast viewership has grown so much and I've noticed an explosion of new patrons. I'd love for you two to talk about how you are thinking of your new, essentially, small business. It seems the YWA approach is intentionally different (no ads, etc). Specifically, are you paying yourself? How did you decide how much or how much to spend on growing the business? Do you pay guests? Have you been approached by some of the major podcast production companies? It seems like you might be in the "figuring it out" stage and THAT is hella intriguing to me as it feels SO exciting!

YWA ‘gifted’ kids is a great idea. I’ve been a teacher for 28 years and it’s such a lame concept. Most kids identified in elementary school are emotionally mature and compliant. That makes them good at school, but is that gifted? And gifted teachers and programs that segregate those kids reinforce a lot of negative behaviors as well as anxiety. My daughter was also identified as gifted early, but my son was not. They are similarly academically talented, but my daughter is more outgoing, my son is quieter. Also it made my daughter feel like her achievements are the most important part of her value causing all kids of anxiety. I could go on all day, but I agree with you both.

Oh my gosh. A big yes please to the topics of gifted children, ADHD and (maybe?) the legacy of the education ideas of the '90s. (Anecdatum: it wasn't good.)

Related to gifted children and segregation in schools, the podcast Nice White Parents is a great relatively short listen, goes in depth into that.

I hope you guys do more celebrity books. I was always dismissive of Jessica Simpson, but these episodes were weirdly compelling. Made me rethink my own experience in the early 2000s aka the dark ages of fashion.

Loving this so much - first of all, I feel extremely seen regarding the thinking and talking. It finally makes sense to me, and I would honestly suspect that many of the people who love the show have similar styles. Also, as a health policy wonk, 100% agree about cutting Medicaid for thousands feels like real “sociopathy” vs someone not showing emotions or empathy in a way you approve of.

Ughghgh the gifted kids conversation was sooo relatable. I was in a similar situation all through grade school; gifted classes, with a major focus on academics. Meanwhile, I was super sensitive and wanted to be a writer or artist (or both), but because I was deemed "smart" i.e. "gifted" letter grades were the big deal in my house. That's not to say I didn't have a super supportive dad who definitely encouraged my creativity, but grades always came first. The funny thing is, I ended up getting my degree in design, so none of that mattered. And to think I skipped years of art classes all so I could excel in algebra when I was 12. The splitting up of classes that Mike mentioned happened in my school too; they divvied us up into Class A, Class B, and Class C. How awful that is when I think of it now. I was in Class A but because they used "letter grades" to label these groupings, it was basically Class Smart, Class Average, Class Dummy. Just horrible. Ah, the 90s.

I was a "gifted" child and hated my program. I was so confused as to why I had to do extra work and miss extracurriculars because I was "smart." Also, I remember Will Smith spoke about the decision making behind casting his love interest in Hitch. The filmmakers felt that a white woman would be too taboo, and a Black woman would alienate white audiences. They decided a Latina actress (Eva Mendes) would be a happy compromise.

I’m not sure how you would structure an episode like this but i would love a deep dive into the history/efficacy of safe injection sites! I live a few blocks from where one was supposed to open in Philadelphia (first in the US) and went to a hearing about it and was surprised by what I saw which was many people feeling bad about people struggling with addiction and “needing social services” but not actually wanting a safe injection site. Overall addiction treatment is really fascinating and there was a great reveal series about rehab scams!

I so second the idea to do a full ep on the Gifted Children Industrial Complex.

This is not my own research area so take with a grain of salt, but I do work with people who study what we would call "sociopathic traits" in brain and behavioural sciences. Disclaimer is that, in practice, I totally agree with Sarah on her criticisms of the term, especially as a one-dimensional label. My understanding is that we are all on the sociopathic spectrum, just like we are all on the autism spectrum, the gender performance spectrum (or spectra), and many other conceptual continua that can be useful at times and damaging at others. I think that delicately and sensitively operationalising something like a perceived lack of empathic response can lead to therapeutic intervention, or act as a warning sign that something dangerous might be going on in a child's life. For example, my collaborator has found that boys considered at a higher risk for sociopathic behaviour have a reduced response to contagious laughter. This of course doesn't mean boys or children should be punished or ostracised because they don't seem able or willing to join in laughing with a group, but it might flag someone who needs extra help with connecting socially, or feeling safe in belonging with others.

Co-dependency! As it relates to narcissism.

For the next AMA -- I am so interested to hear about how Sarah got into sled dog handling (assuming it wasn't as simple as "I was friends with Blair and she had dogs").

I don't know if this warrants an episode, but it's related to what you were saying about luxury brands advertising in Vogue. This book outlines how those brands make their profit, less from clothing sales (which only the very wealthy can afford) and more from the sales of accessories like handbags, belts, cosmetics, perfume and diffusion line, which middle class people are likely to save up to purchase for the sake of "buying into" a lifestyle. What's more, a lot of brands cut corners, maintaining the "exclusivity" for the high end products, but making the rest as cheaply as possible to make more in the markup, so that they can have a handbag sewn in china or bangladesh, but have the leather handles applied in Italy to justify the "made in italy" label. (i would also LOVE to recommend guests if you wanted to do a luxury fashion episode) https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222328.Deluxe

FYI - there is a term in the fashion industry “aspirational fashion”. It’s exactly what you were talking about with Playboy, Esquire & Vogue. 😪

Can I also say that the last time that I did jury service (they keep picking me) one of the defending barristers did get into a car accident. So we had a slight delay. Sorry, of course I mean THE STATE GROUND TO A HALT!!!

i would love to hear about: the cold war and the lavender scare kent state the university of texas tower shooting ted bundy waco the unabomber oklahoma city bombing i don’t know if i’m wrong about her but i want an episode about dolly parton lol profilers!!!

I'd like to hear your take on Cold War nuclear propaganda. The UK had "Protect and Survive", I think in the USA you had Duck and Cover. To me it was a strange mix of extremely frightening and silly but nuclear holocaust seemed always present.

I'm old (45) and from Massachusetts and my experience was gifted education was totally different. And was also very not white...now I want a show.

Topic idea: Thoughts on public librarians? Asking as a public librarian who adores this show!

Topic idea... early gay TV? Like, Ellen is infamously assimilationist now, but is it true there was a bomb threat at the studio the night she came out on her sitcom? And I look back at Will and Grace as pretty meh, but I also remember that knowing my grandma liked it is what made me feel okay coming out to her. How radical was goofy pandering gay content if Hollywood has always been pretty gay? What are the lines of discourse re content designed to make us safe for Peoria vs content for us? Is truly queer content only a thing now because of the internet?

Topic ideas...Princess Diana, Dr. Kevorkian and American physician assisted suicide laws compared to the Dutch system, Timothy McVeigh and/or homegrown "American terrorists"

For your next AMA -- Pumpkin Spice Lattes, yay or nay?

Also! This podcast has covered many stories involving abusive relationships, but I don't think I've ever heard reference to The Gift of Fear or Why Does He Do That?, two texts that often get brought up when discussing abusive interpersonal dynamics in, like, advice column settings. Would be interested to hear your takes on these texts and/or the general cultural narratives that exist about intimate partner abuse and the best ways to teach young people to recognize the warning signs and protect themselves. (This topic is obviously heavy as hell, so I won't be offended if you're like "perhaps... not... this one" when selecting discussion items!)

I would like to hear Sarah tell more dog stories. (And if Mike has dog stories he is welcome to jump in with his!) My dog has become an essential component of my social/emotional life during quarantine and I'm constantly astounded by the degree to which humans can communicate verbally and nonverbally with this alien species that we've domesticated.

Fully inspired by Richard Dreyfuss but: My mum, a teacher, absolutely hates movies about teachers. I, a press secretary, love movies/tv shows which involve press secretaries. What are your view on tv/movie depictions of journalists? any particular favourites or least favourites?

Honestly holding out for Debunkmates merch 💙

posted right as i’m about to cook, y’all are great