Idaho Guy Part 1 with Mackenzie Joy Brennan

White people are obsessed with OJ. What was the point of bringing him up twice? Why is it so hard for you to accept the defense poked holes in the prosecution’s case and proved the LAPD tampered with evidence in the case?

The day after my 18th birthday, Sandy Hook happened. I was in government class when the news was breaking and my teacher put the news on the projector and told us we were watching history happen. A few months later the Boston Bombing happened and the teacher did the same thing.

As a teacher of toddlers, I firmly believe that the issue you touched on of weirdly supportive moms of male murderers and the dynamic that that represents is one of the most pressing cultural dangers of our time. There is an epidemic of tiptoeing around our children, especially boys, avoiding upsetting them at all costs, which, in contrast to the previous trend of "boys don't cry" where men repressed their emotions until they lash out, many boys growing up now genuinely believe that it is everyone else's responsibility to keep them from experiencing a negative feeling, and that they are not responsible for what they do when experiencing that feeling. Both are fucked up, but I think the second is more openly violent more often.

PLEASE do an episode about the Monkees, they're SO underrated and such a bunch of weirdos!

I was in the hospital having a baby when the Slenderman stabbing broke, so the two events are indelibly linked in my brain

Def plenty of doomsday cults with women leaders! Check out the first season of the Opportunist podcast about Sherry Shriner. Really good reporting and a wild story.

Mickey Dolenz was in the TV show Elephant boy. Mike Nesmith’s mother invented white out. She was a Single mom and was pushed out of her own company by the men. Also Mike Nesmith was a catalyst to what became MTV. I LOVE THE MONKEES!

At one hour in I’m still waiting for them to really talk about what happened…? You’ll wanna know the entire story before listening to this chat about it.

SO GLAD TO HEAR ABOUT MIKE NESMITH !!!!!!

Thank you for these episodes. I graduated from U of Idaho just months before this happened. I am a long time lover of this podcast. Sarah something about you makes me so hopeful in this fckd up scary world. Xo

This reminds me of my favorite load bearing tweet: I’ve never been more baffled at a boldfaced lie than the insistence that Ted Bundy was fine. No he was not. And he wasn’t Mr. Bitches either, he used to pretend to be handicap to lure unsuspecting women, stop the madness

Hmm there’s meandering, and then there’s totally impenetrable, impossible to follow conversations. This one required so much foreknowledge. 15 mins in I was still waiting for a simple topic sentence like “this is about a man who murdered four college students in Idaho.” Then they were throwing around names without even explaining who those people were. If by any chance someone is reading this before listening, I would say it’s not worth it before you’ve read a bunch about this case or watched the docuseries. Meandering is fine, but I need at least some explanation and sign posting.

I am a Mike Nesmith stan, begging you to cover The Monkees🎶

Hearing Sarah mentioning OJ in this ep just made my long-standing hopes of seeing that series completed sometime perk up once more!! 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼

Your Ted Bundy discussion reminded me of the great song “Lotta True Crime” by Penelope Scott. She has a wonderful, succinct view of him: “Ted Bundy was never that fucking bright, He was just sort of charismatic and white, alright? And he was so fucking sure he had the right.”

Mike Nesmith lol

Mackenzie dropping truly the best advice for single "don't know how to talk to women" types I've ever heard. Neil Strauss and co. Found dead in a ditch

I don’t know if it’s living overseas (where I’m operating in the American internet but not in the everyday American culture) but I had completely not heard of this, to the point I got a bit lost and had to look up a Wikipedia article. That said, I really appreciated the meandering format and think it worked to create a more thoughtful discussion. If you’re interested in exploring one of these ideas in horror novel format, the Clown in a Cornfield trilogy touches on this phenomenon of victims being harassed. In the second novel the characters who managed to survive the first novel are targeted by online hate mobs accusing them of being the “real” killers, which is the catalyst for putting them in more danger.

Thank you for not editing out Pig 🥰

One of my college friends turned 21 on 9/11 and I'm pretty sure she's still bitter about false patriotism ruining her birthday.

What was the name of the docu series?

Your anecdotal experience tracks with my mom's too - she works at a small insurance agency and always says that recent widows usually call because to get insurance for a new car while widowers will call to add a new wife to their policies.

Yes! Do a "YWA" about the Monkees... and bands that were put together by producers and not organic bands. There are so many really good examples of legit good music that came from this formula!

Hello to Sarah's gynecologist 😂👋🏼

Sarah's comments about her reaction after her father's death reminds me of how when my father died I was driving somewhere, to some family event or something, and the thought came fully formed into my head "It'll be a lot easier to come out as bisexual now." I had never had that thought at the surface before that, but it was clearly there and waiting for the change to leap out.

During late 2022/early 2023 when I was the most active on the Idaho Murders subreddit(s) I'd often cite You're Wrong About + Sarah Marshall when people would question why nobody heard screams or reacted to Idaho Guy in the house -- I'd point them to the Kitty Genovese episode and the points Sarah makes about Kitty's injuries and why people didn't really respond strongly during the first attack. So much of the narrative of the Idaho case is wrapped up in people's notions of what it *must* have been like (based on media depictions of murders) and how they *definitely* would've responded when reality is much more complicated. (People were also conflicted about feeling really, really sad about Idaho Guy and his family, so I pointed them to "The End of Evil" as a way to explore having empathy while still recognizing when someone does something as brutal and ugly and scary as murder. It's a good companion piece for all the Bundy talk this episode.)

I’m reading Murderland rn (EXCELLENT) and Ted Bundy really was getting gas all the fucking time! Caroline Fraser talks about it too!!!

Did anyone else grow up watching The Monkees on Nickelodeon? I remember my mom telling me she liked The Monkees over The Beatles. Also, I watched the Prime docuseries on this case, and I thought they did a good job of not putting so much focus on Idaho Man.

it was mike nesmith’s mom who invented white out! a ywa on the monkees would slaaaaay (and if you want someone who knows waaaay too much about them…..)

Bonus points for the detour making fun of Ted Bundy, we can never do that enough. Lindy West has an essay called "Ted Bundy Was Not Charming - Are You High?" and I've never related to anything more.

I think people need this to be a more complicated story, because this was such a horrific event. But then it's just some dumpy guy who enacted this brutality for stupid ass reasons and it's scarier and so much more disappointing than if a soap opera came to life I think this part of what animates a lot of conspiracy theories; it sucks so hard when history hinges on dumb losers

It was Mike nesniths mom

Hi all! Chiming in with a correction-- Idaho Guy was a PhD -candidate-, I can't believe I gave the twerp academic credits he didn't even earn. Apologies.

I have been a gigantic Monkees fan since 6th grade so I loved that little aside! They, and then Nesmith’s music on his own, are super under appreciated.

Not me thinking this was gonna be about some obscure man from 1967 who brought potatoes to Idaho and started the ‘Idaho Potatoes’ marketing ploy. And the ‘you’re wrong about’ was gonna be that there ARENT potatoes in Idaho.

I went to the U of I and lived in Moscow for about 6 years, and many of my friends lived there or still do. It sounds cliche, but it really is such a very small community, so obviously it was a HUGE deal in my circle when it happened. The moment we started to get details about who the victims were, I knew some absolute loser had killed those girls because he hates women and he wanted to feel important. It's embarrassing how predictable these men are.

I can't tell what's right or wrong when it comes to true crime reporting. What I can say is that you always manage to talk about these crimes in a way that doesn't get stuck in my body in a festering knot and I appreciate that a lot

voting for ‘what if you’re all dumb’ merch

Yessss I was following this case from the beginning!

Floridian here to report that we are indeed DUMB

I will forever remember the date they arrested the Golden State Killer because I texted my sister, “Happy 30th Birthday, they caught GSK.”

Ha. The Monkees were the first heartthrobs I had a poster of in my bedroom growing up. In the 80s. Ha. Nick At Night really screwed with my cultural reference. Also, Lassie was owned and trained by Rudd Weatherwax. Forever seared in my brain for no reason other than opening credits.