DF feedback
Hi folks!
It's been 2 weeks since I'm back from a great experience, and I've since been very busy catching up with the work, namely making the pictures for Gates the Opening, for the 3rd episode of CtGwC, and a couple of new weeklies.
Darkness Falls has been released to patrons, and for the general public too. I think the majority of you received the first episode with good criticism, for which we're very glad. We've been expecting better (in terms of volume) feedback from the public though. Our usual place of inquiry has been surprisingly quiet about the release of DF and we're not sure if that's because of the game (it's story, art, being too short, etc) or because the forum has less activity since some months ago. That's a bit disappointing because we like to hear from as much people possible (if it's constructive criticism of course).
Despite that, there were a couple of comments (in another place) that pointed the obvious clichés of the characters in DF, going from the "Max Payne" tired old detective, the young pretty new partner, the fat grumpy Captain and the weird pathologist. Well, this made me smile because the comments criticized it as something bad and disappointing where we wanted that exact result ourselves.
See, and now speaking for myself (but I'm in the belief that Tlaero shares the same feelings), this DF idea, and its characters design, was born from pure nostalgia. I've grown up watching the 90's TV shows and when it wasn't about teenagers in high school it was about police detectives fighting crime. Many of these TV shows I watched were actually 80's TV shows that was broadcasted subbed in the country I was living. Others were 90's shows. Then came the X-files in mid 90's and the game Max Payne at the turn of the century. Also, being a fan of DC's Batman, and a lover for darker themes in literature, cinema and TV, it's only natural to have all that condensed in what inspires me in the art and ideas for DF. We used the cliché because that's what nostalgia demands. Otherwise we wouldn't being living what caught our eyes when we watched those TV shows.
I also smiled at the irony of claiming DF is full of clichés when it's perhaps one of the few only games (to my knowledge) that doesn't use the thematics "guy meets girl-they date-they fuck" or "guy lives with his relative/friend's daughter- they build up taboo romantic relationship-they fuck", but that's just a side note.
You don't get to build up relationships to fuck the girl in DF. You get to solve cases and open up the Elsaverse mysteries. The sex (if and when there is sex) is just something extra to lighten up Detective Blake's dark daily life.
It must be a grimy job being a Vice (or) Narcotics (or) Homicide detective in real life. You don't get to see the best in humanity in that line of work. You see its worst. Added to that the challenges defense lawyers, bureaucracy, chain of custody demands, and politicians' interests sometimes come to oppose your work and you'll get a mindset much like Blake. Yeah, he's cliché. He's supposed to be. He's just a cliché day-to-day Homicide detective. He's written that way.
Cheers!
Mortze
Comments (18)
You can put me down as one of those anxious to see more of this series, the art work is, as usual amazing Mortze, the work you put in giving your models emotion is better than anyone else in this genre, even the emotionless, burnt out Detective Blake is overflowing with personality. The story and the character development is still in its infancy but I can see the budding relationship building between the two detectives. I'm on the fence with Jannike though, I can see where you are trying to go with her but that first meeting with her was jarring, it improved as the scene progressed but I'll wait to see more of her before I say if I like her or not.
I am amazed by Blake's confident and disembodied expression. Superb rendering.
I like the way it looks! I'm just delighted with this!))
I really enjoyed the first episode, loved the story and characters. Was surprised by the Max Payne style but I loved that game. Keep up the great work.
Well, I myself enjoyed all those 'clichés' some people gives you grief over. I have grown up on similar stuff you mentioned and for me, DF so far really hit a spot! Expansion to Elsa-verse with this type of story from you guys? Sign me up!
If you ever need to reply to these kind of critics, you can always quote Jessica Rabbit's famous sentence " I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way"
I thought the first episode was brilliant. I'm very excited to see if we the player are going to have piece the puzzle together ourselves, and how you guys would be able to manage that. Beyond that, I thought the characters are interesting, and I'm sure they'll gain more dimensionality the more episodes are released. I continue to be impressed with the work you guys do. Keep it up!
I just wanna add, I think it would be really interesting if we could play an episode from Michelle's perspective
I believe it was said a while back about another topic and in at least one popular song that comes to mind, "It's all been done." There are reasons it's all been done, familiarity, emotional response, tells and twists. These are just some examples. While cliches are something you want to avoid they can be used nicely for twists and such. Being a shorter story or only part of a story (indeed part of a larger story, ie: Elsaverse)some of the feedback might be a bit premature. Do viewers have certain expectations when opening a new game/story from a site that posts adult content/erotica, yes. Do viewers have certain expectations when running a Tora Productions story, of course. But you two are changing things up and this is going to confuse some. If Yoda was long-winded he might connect confusion to the dark side. From what you stated above it sounds like mission accomplished. Perhaps, the lack of feedback was simply viewers holding back to see more of the story in the future. Personally, I am enjoying your work. I find myself spending as much time looking at the images as I am re-reading the story. I suspect there is a bit of an age difference between us. But I think it's great that living in different parts of the world more then one generation got to grow up on the same shows and stories as I did. That pleases me. With that being said, queue the Rockford Files opening theme. Cue the Magnum PI theme. Queue the Simon and Simon theme. Cue the Remington Steele theme. Queue the Moonlighting theme. Cue the Charlie's Angels theme. Queue the... wait, wait, wait. Ahhh! too many guitars, horns and answering machines!
I've played the episode and was please to see our favorite cop girl in the office :) I liked the link done between the elsaverse story arc and this game. Waiting patiently for the second episode :)
DF is never going to appeal to M&F/taboo players, which is a good thing. I don't think it is cliché: i agree with LB876 that archetypal is better. Probably because i am approaching the grumpy old git phase of life, the idea of being a veteran cop lumbered with a feisty, attractive, intelligent young woman as a partner appeals to me. If i get to shag her it's a bonus, but it's about the journey as much as the destination.
I grew up on same shows and movies (dubbed where I come from) so I understand what you mean. But perhaps there is something more to it than nostalgia. We are used to see these clichés (archetypes, tropes, whatever) so we tend to notice them a lot. And while some of us critizice them or become too tired of some of them ('weird pathologist' for me) we need them. Because reality is boring, scary and sometimes really depressing - no one wants to watch how detective XY goes through all his/her paperwork. Or how some nameless cop writes a parking ticket. We don’t want to see starving people fleeing some horrible war or disaster. We want to see Horatio Caine put on his sunglasses and say some lame pun. We want grumpy Captain that smokes a lot, drinks liters of coffee and yells because his detectives just blew up half of the city. We want dynamic and explosive duo like Gibson/Glover in Lethal Weapon. We want Batman to pull out some cool gadget and take down bad guys. We want Luke Skywalker to destroy Death Star. We want to see good guys win. Probably because it helps us to forget it doesn’t always work like this in reality. So while these archetypes might be tiring sometimes, we probably wouldn’t enjoy it without them as much.
Following what you say I happen to have known 2 pathologists technicians in my life and they were relatively normal persons. If Jannike was a normal person she'd be bland, with no interest beside her looks (who depend on the player's tastes). So, unless the player likes dead bodies like Jannike she won't be a boring character. Either you like her or not, she stands out and in my book that's a winning character. In the case of DF I think that Tlaero managed to imprint in her an interesting weirdness that is she's more emphatic and caring with cadavers than with living people. I don't recall seeing that sort of "weirdness" in cliché pathologists. -- Mortze
Personally, I prefer "archetype" over "cliche" - it sounds fancier. I think the episodic format is going to lend itself to more criticism just because there's less content available and so everyone is obsessing over a smaller sample size. I found chapter 1 of BOTH stories to be well up to your usual (stellar) standards and I expect more of the same as you continue.
Thanks for the explanation even though I don’t think you need to give us one. If history has shown us anything it’s that you two have a strong clear vision for the stories you want to tell and that it all makes beautiful perfect sense in the end. Keep up the great work and welcome back!
Nice write-up Mortze and welcome back. I loved DF and look forward to more. Cliches are in the eye of the beholder in my opinion!
Really loved it!!! Already one of my favorites. Like how the characters comes to life and you give them life. Cliche! Hell yes, but the way you do it is amazing and you have the possibility to affect the storyline with your decisions. Nice one there!!!
Anxious to see more.