Saving Chloe: Paths and Agency

Tlaero, you have managed to weave together an intricate plot and erotic art in a way that I have not previously seen. Please keep up the great work.

I discovered the Elsa-verse quite by accident and I have to say that I am really impressed by the thoughtful and divergent story lines you created. I have dabbled in some fantasy and sci-fi writing and I am quite impressed with the storyline. Having downloaded and played/read the backstory presented in the prequels, I am hooked.

I think that your solution (that is a little RfJ style) is the one I liked most in your game. One main path that allows the storyteller to tell the story she wants and other "little" secondary path that explore different sides of the story. But the main news (at least for me) is the explicit declaration that there will be others Elsaverse games !!!!

I'd just like to point out that I really liked how in Finding Miranda, you were actually your own character with your own struggles and background story and actual characterization, which we didn't have (at all I would say) in the other two. I thought this made the game much better and a more involved experience as the story wasn't relying just on the girl to give it character and depth. Keep up the amazing work.

Given that you are telling stories in the guise of a game, i think the idea of the canon path is a good one. Agency in your games is not an issue for me: there is plenty of agency in games like BEW and i don't think you need to be or would be comfortable in creating games in somebody else's style. Just a few dead-ends that are not immediately obvious would make the games more challenging without you having to stray too far from how you want to make games.. That way the creative process finds a balance between what floats your boat and makes you want to keep going and bowing to pressure to make games the way somebody else thinks they should be made.

I've played all three games, and for gameplay, I think FM is the best of them. What I liked about the game, was the fact that we need to select his background and that has some effects in the gameplay. I think it's okay to have a few paths, but not too many. For me, agency I don't really need it, the only thing I love is that I can select a choice that will be near what I want to tell the girl in that situation.

Personally, I'm OK with this multiple paths thing but agency (or lack of) in Tlaero's games was never an issue for me. I understand this games are story-based so the important thing is not getting laid (well, the not so important thing) but discovering how the story ends. So for me the gaming experience is more related to the puntuation system that allows you to progress throughout the story than to the branching or subplots included (which of course I appreciate, as they mean a lot of work for the creators). In other words, I would like to know if SC will be a "pick the right line" game (as DwE or FM) or a "express yourself and see what happens" game (as RfJ). Also, would the player be able to decide what girl he wants to pursue or is he going to just "find out" who's interested depending on his choices (as in the lewd path in RfJ)?

That's a very important topic Tlaero, I'm glad you made a post about it. For what it's worth, that's what I think: 1) Don't focus on x multiple endings (I personally don't care), what people mostly want is more variety during the playthrough, and variety comes from a minimal amount of meaningful choices that open up little different branches that soon reconnect with the main one (think about one or two maximum main braches, it depends if you want a single main path for your game or not) 2) When you open up those little branches, 90% of the time you will have to consider what they change in the scenes that have to come, so you'll have to code for them: for example different dialogues, or different introspection of the MC, or even different scenes 3) Avoid too many game overs. That's my advice, also look for a game called "good girl gone bad", that creator really mastered the management of different paths\branches. Let me know what you think ;)

Thanks for the insight into your thought processes developing these stories. One piece of advice. Don't let the criticism of a few impact your skill at story telling - - you can never please everybody everytime! And there are always those you can never please. It is good to be challenged by new ideas, but ultimately the stories are yours to tell as you see them. I am glad you have kept canon version of the story because that is the true story of the Elsa-verse, your creation. The other routes are fun, but they are just explorations of possibilities. It is also good to her that there will be future tales of the Elsaverse after we resolve Chloe's predicament.

I'm a "tell your story" fan. I don't like ranting and complaining. But in your case those complaints (no matter how stupid they sound) pushed you to make your games even better. My favourite story is always DwE but FM gameplay is way better. I mean i enjoyed how "in FM you didn't advance by saying nice things to the female. You advanced by saying the things someone with the background you picked would say." You`'ve been reacting to those "ramblings and complaints" amaizingly. Making your games better and in the same time keeping your originality and your story and your way of telling it intact. I agree with you that "agency" goes against storytelling, but it looks like you have found out a clever solution even for that, So i'm looking forward to see who your stories will cope with "the agency" thing. Let me say that again. In your case i disagree with "anti-complainings" people. Some of those complaints are pushing you to demand more from yourself and you`'re doing a great job.

I absolutely love the stories you have had in all your games. I felt all of the paths were organic in their own way, and its a major part of why I love those games so much. If you don't write the story the way you want to, then it will never matter what anyone else thinks of it. Take it from someone who is never happy unless there is something to complain about, you're stories are amazing and they keep getting better.

There a Portuguese saying: "não se pode agradar a gregos e a troianos" the translantion is something like, you cant please all the people all the time. The artists must first and foremost be true to their art, there will always exist the pleased ones and the displeased ones, tough luck. I can tell you that what i like most about the stories is that they are part of a bigger story, and I love being able to learn what´s happening next, dont care if its the easy or the hard path, its the pleasure of the discovery, and of course the beautiful imagens created that complement the plot, I´m 100% pleased. I know it takes a lot of work to get a game finished, the wait sometimes can be hard, but for me it´s well worth it. the proof that I like your games is that I became a Patron and will remain one, keep up the good work ;) Oh and everyone is a critic but not everyone can create what you do. Another Portuguese saying "vozes de burro não chegam ao céu" so let them talk.

I came across your games when Chaotic posted them on his web site. I played them, loved them, and signed up for monthly donations in the hopes that you would be encouraged to create more. Also, on Chaotic's site (I am also a member there as well), there are a number of people who like to complain. To them, I say nothing. They don't deserve it. To you, I say, "Thank you for the many hours of enjoyable game play." Please keep up the GREAT work.

It has been my experience that people like to complain. I think that if they had nothing to complain about they would complain about that.

As has already been mentioned I always felt that your stories were one of the stand out features of your games. I understand where your coming from with trying to accommodate some of the criticisms. But I personally felt that some of the criticisms about agency were misguided. Its a trend I've noted in main stream gaming that games with an actual story to tell seem to be rarer, open world "make your own story" seems the order of the day. I'm reassured that you've made one plot line you consider to be the "cannon" ending. I've seen several potentially great games become mediocre from the creator trying to cater to everyone. As you say games aren't created by committee and it seldom goes well when a creators try's that approach. The characters and world you and Mortze have created in the elsaverse are interesting enough that I'm confident I'll like what you come up with. My fear is though that the people who complained about player agency will never truly be happy until they have a game which has multiple paths, each one fully fleshed out. As JFR mentioned that would just increase the workload on you and Mortze, and those same people would probably complain about it taking to long. Very much looking forward to SC, I'm assuming that all the girls so far (Elsa, Jessica, Miranda, Xara and ofc Chloe) will be in it. Can't wait to see that.

I love your stories. Keep up the great work!

I appreciate your efforts to accommodate the comments of various players but would encourage you to stay true to your own story telling. Your stories are what make your work unique and, frankly, so good. It sounds almost like you are moving almost in a BEW direction with SC - multiple story lines that lead to multiple endings. That is cool. It will certainly increase replayability (is that a word?) Players like me will want to find all of the various scenes so we will play over and over, in slightly different ways. I would just caution that such a format can really increase the complexity and extend the workload to a point that it may not be so much fun for you. I think you know where I am coming from on that. I enjoy your interactive stories more than anything available in the genre. In my view they are what others should be striving toward. I look forward very much to SC and seeing where your creativity will take you - and us - in that and future projects. Just don't lose that which makes your games yours. :-)

I've always believed that you,the writer or game-maker, should make the story you want to tell or else you're... not cheapening... but... I don't know, not telling the story you wanted to tell. It's a pretty reflexive thought but an important one. I hope that even if SC doesn't turn out how everyone wants it to be (and let's face it, that's an impossible goal) it at least lives up to what you wanted it to be. I'm looking forward to what you come up with.