Thoughts on the "Hero"

Just my 2 cents here, but I had an interesting moment in Finding Miranda when they were talking about Jessika and "the scribe". It actually changed my perspective of the character to hear how other characters described him, making it clear that he was essential, equal, not just a love interest for the uniquely gifted Jessika. Lucas's essential contribution to the team is only hinted at when Xara asks him to teach her how to lead, but that is never developed in Finding Miranda. It could also be that Elsa, Jessika and Miranda each have extrordinary, even superhuman, gifts, while the male character in each story does not. So, as I said, I can see those men as essential, but still not quite on the level of the female members of Project Phoenix. Even so, I don't think you should change that. I loved all of the stories!

Crane, if you click on the three dot icon under a comment you get a pencil icon to edit the comment and a trashcan icon to delete it.

Or..for a change you could do a game where WE decide every time (every choice) if the main character (male or female) is going to reach his goal behaving like a hero or the opposite. That's where you should evolve you games, in my opinion.

"..that is Mortze's not your...

...got a winner. :p

Since the next Pandora hero is a muscular brave guy, who seems very selfconfident isn't that problem resolved? Of course, that is not Mortze's not your game, but the audience is just the same isn't it? just make a scene Farik beating the sh... out of Nate and you

Tlaero, a lot of this feedback you're talking about comes down to your subversion of existing media tropes, such as Men Act, Women Are (basically, male characters are defined by their actions, women are defined by their appearance/personality). There's more to that, and other dichotomies that come into play, but to explore that, I recommend you go here: <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MenActWomenAre" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MenActWomenAre</a> Be careful though, that site can be a timesink. I think it's not so much that your men don't act (I can think of quite a bit of that), but that the women act as well, upsetting the binary dichotomy. Note that action movies either flip the roles entirely when a woman takes action (Ripley from Alien) or make the woman "one of the boys" (Michelle Rodgriguez in... anything). Without the dichotomy that they're used to, some people feel unsettled.

I personally don´t have a problem with your characters. I prefer games where I can project myself in character and where PC solves problems using his brain and mouth rather than fists. Most easily I projected into Kean, since he reminds of myself. While I understand why some might view your male characters as weak, the truth is that we didn´t had a chance to see them in some situation that would require them to fight. I agree with your decision to create a character that would combine physical strength with empathy and understanding. I also believe such character would sooner or later became neccesary, since it´s obvious there is a trouble coming. And although I have no doubt that Xara´s girls will be able to hold their own, same might not apply for their boyfriends. So someone capable to break some bones and perhaps lead the boys would be a nice thing to have.

Who says that your male characters can´t fight???? I think that they fought enough to get the woman they desired! It would be much easier to give up for Jason and say "that she is not my league" or Marc where the difference to Jessica are even larger. A normal guy wouldn´t have tried it! Whatever you decide keep up the good work and please don´t turn your next male character into somekind of Rambo! :)

Well considering your games have the best writing on the genre all I can say is whatever path you choose just keep up the fantastic work!

Mortze -- my opinion on the subject: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY</a>

Exploring the Hero is something that stories have been doing for years on end. There are how many comic book lines that do this every month. We are also getting to explore a new universe, the Elsa-verse. This most likely means the rules are different. It is possible that the ladies in this universe are more aggressive then the men or in our universe. I could be over thinking this or just playing devils advocate. But as a writer I know that there are certain ideals I believe should be in the world or would be nice to see in the world that I try to include in my writing. We could be seeing the same thing here. The hollow seeming lead characters that we get to play hasn't bothered me so much. I have tended to fill in those blanks with pieces of myself which I rather enjoy. And is a nice writing tool/trick to draw in the readers. There are times that I, too, haven't agreed with certain options or dialogues that have been provided. Without bad choices there is no tension or anything to drive the plot. The more information we get about the character we are playing the more there is for us to potentially not like or agree with. As far as infusing the male character with more of our universes stereotypical male bravado/characteristics I wouldn't be opposed to that but at the same time I don't feel it is necessary. If there were to be a fight scene it would be nice as the male lead to be able to at least stand side by side with your lady fare. I like what you are writing, Tlaero, keep it up. I have been intrigued by the Elsa-verse and am interested in continuing to discover/read/play(with) more about it.

I don't really have any complaints, in fact, the dynamic between the male and female main characters is one of the reasons why I like these games so much. I kind of see them both as heroes enabling each other to grow and overcome the obstacles in their paths.

I agree with what you've said and I would just like to say that I think the main protagonist in Finding Miranda (forget his name) was a much better "hero" or just main character than from the other Elsaverse games. Hope that helps in some regard.

I am going to go a bit against the grain here. My main gripe with the protagonists isn't that they should all be 90's movies action heroes. It is that most of them don't really seem to have any personality of their own. In general I agree with ExLibris thoughts on Marc, explained in his review of RfJ: <a href="http://overanalysingaif.blogspot.nl/2016/02/review-redemption-for-jessika-by-tlaero.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://overanalysingaif.blogspot.nl/2016/02/review-redemption-for-jessika-by-tlaero.html</a>

I love your open insight and self awareness to character building. However, I find myself eye rolling at the comments from a lot of players. Basically I see them airing frustration at playing a character who doesn't fit the Alpha male archetype that they expect. Boo-freaking-whoo. I will admit though that I wish I could deviate with the singular acceptable personality with some of your main characters. I feel like once I get how you want the character to think, the game is just a click through novel. That could be improved with character development and growth. Like, what a character might say or think in the beginning differs drastically from the end, because he's not the same person in the end. You've done this really well in some of your other games (One comes to mind, not sure the name but I remember picking up a tough girl in a bar), I just haven't seen it in Pandora yet. Still a great game, just a thing I would like to see in the future. And definitely something to keep in mind with other characters and games.

The Elsa verse has evolved over the course of three games. We now have a known villain with a frightening deadly hench-crow. I think you are on the right track with you next male character. What I'd like to see is a story where the male and female leads act as a team to overcome the villain (or at least the villain's latest scheme). Then get to the hot sex.

Someone touched on this above, and I agree, it's about identifying with the character. As much as I enjoy the games, I find I identify with the male protaganists very little. For me they're too passive, too emotional, and for lack of a better word, too wimpy. They strike me as the type of guys that in a "fight or flight" type scenario, would go with flight over fight. Now there's no need for a stereotypical 80's action hero type guy, but someone with a little more steel in their spine, a little more stubbornness, a little headstrong would be good I think. Maybe you could make the next guy a veteran, then he would automatically have a certain level of machismo about him. Someone that everyone knows could stand and fight if he needed to, but can still be a supportive guy, cause he's been through some stuff, and knows what it's like. Veterans tend to have that rough exterior and yet can still be quite caring on the inside. That might work to make all sides happy, a tougher guy but still a supportive guy. Anyways, that's just my two pennies worth.

Stick with what you are doing. it is very good. Real heroes (at least those that aren't wearing capes) all have vulnerabilities anyway. Come t think of it, even the cape bearing heroes have vulnerabilities, vis-a-vis kryptonite. real heros also don't emerge fully formed form the head of Zeus, but grow within their storyline into the hero to be. Your characters are real people, living in a real world - granted one that borders on the realm of magical realism. It is that later fact that makes them even more fun to follow.

I truly enjoy every game, from the early Phreaky collabs to to the current Mortze collabs with his awesome artistry, and it's these games that inspired me to create my own. But for a hero? Ask 10 people what a hero is, and you'll get 12 different answers. 3 lies, and a cupcake. At the end of the day though, I think the aspect of a hero is the change that occurs to the hero, and what the hero learns about himself that allows him to finally overcome the struggle and prevail. Look at every great story from Luke Skywalker learning to trust in himself and grow into a Jedi, or Ariel in the Little Mermaid learning that not everything is dependent upon a kiss -- Yes, I went there, don't judge me. :) So I guess the real question for me might be, what is it that the hero learns that enables them to overcome their ordeal and earn the reward? I think that without that aspect, there is no hero.

What I've noticed thru your games is the guy is kinda Blah, example Jess rock star > scribe, elsa store owner the guy delivery driver, etc etc. The women always come off like Miranda they can do anything and everything better than u but for some weird reason she decides she likes you when u have never talked before. And the definition of hero is someone that saves the day, not alfred for be the support system to batman. And u treat the girls for the most part as sexual objects, with Jess they tell u not to be a perv but get rewarded for being nice by the girl flashing u, then she turns around and says thanks for not treating me like a pair of tits, why shouldnt i she just did. And Nick i Agree with the guys have so many flaws but its all about her you are really unimportant, the girls are all the sexual aggressors in the game and if u so much as look at their tits points off. And it would work if it was one game but like i have said about Mortze's I like a bush comments ok i get it but most women do not have them now there should be variety not same personality and appearence in every game.

Let me use Pandora for an example. (I enjoyed it, btw, but it illustrates my point) Kean never does ANYTHING heroic (except maybe in the end pointing out the source of the navigation error). He doesn't have a skill that proves to be essential to ANYONE. He doesn't overcome any of his flaws (and in fact you punish players who try to have him do so). You force the player to choose options that make him LESS heroic to advance the game. He MUST stay cripplingly shy. He MUST perv out on his crew mates. I will grant you that his actions with Rita break that mold, the player is rewarded (slightly) for being helpful to Rita. But for the most part, you frustrate the player by making them choose to be a lesser person to advance the game.

A Whedonism I like is "Everyone is the hero of their own story." If I have a minor complaint, it's that your male characters don't seem to believe that they are heroes. They KNOW they are the support characters. To go back to Whedon, in "Buffy" she has the powers and strength, etc. But every person, even powerless Xander, BELIEVES that they are the hero of their small section of Buffy's story. Heck, even her foils (like the school principle) BELIEVE they are heroes. Let ALL your characters take the big risk at some point. Heck, have them make the inspiring sacrifice for the team. Then your readers will feel that they are heroic.

In classic action films / storys the main actor / hero is a strong male who saves the woman who supports the hero and saves the day. Sometimes the role of the woman is only to scream for help like Indiana Jones and the temple of doom. I like the movie but I really hated the female character...... Your heros are Elsa, Jessica and Miranda but you don´t tell their story you tell the story of the male character who supports them and "made" them into heros! OK exepct Miranda :) She was altready a hero :) Elsa´s heroic act is that she saves "the book of morpheus" Jessica saves hundreds of lives before a bomb explosion. the story you tell is how they became these heros. They only become heros because their supporter male provided them with something they really neede - Feelings, support, self confident...... So the heros of the games are the supporter the male character and that is very different then in action films :) I can understand that some some guy think that this is annoying but I like it. I like the story of the "silent" heros (supporters) who nobody really sees, but without them the story would have a totally different ending. And of cause I like it when the average guy gets the hot lady :))) So keep on with your very good work and please don´t change anything just because some guys are hurt in their male pride!

Hummm tough one. It might not be due to your view of your male protagonist, but they do truly appear to be in awe of the strong female counterpart and that may, in turn, create the impression that they're seen as "weak" compared to them. Methink you are in the wrong thinking it's all a matter of beating up bad guys/getting the girl idea though. In the setting you're offering, a 'Mad Max' like character will too be able to help the heroine getting through the story, get sex as required (or not), and still have internal/valid reason not to stick with the heroine at the end of the story. It's more about strong female character is best with strong male character. Story wise it might work, or not, and in the end said character might 'Find a girl, settle down If you want, you can marry Look at me, I am old But I'm happy' if that the end of the story you're aiming at. Some persons are wired for monogamy, others are not that lucky.

For the player to feel engaged, she or he needs to be able to identify with the protagonist. This is not neccessarily about fulfillment fantasies, but we need to understand who we play, why we act like we do, and that our actions have positive consequences. That is the reason why Redemption feels so gratifying. The protagonist is not incredibly attractive, he does not have a glamorous job but he gets the (super-hot rock-star) girl because he helps her when she desperately needs someone. In Finding Miranda the player plays this super-handsome, programmer-genius that gets hit on by girls left and right. In the game however, he offers only moral support to a Mirands, who most probably would have resolved everything by herself. In the beginning Miranda tells us shes mainly interested in intelligence, but in the game she only gushes how handsome he is and how good in bed and how pretty his eyes are. It would have been more gratifying to prove that intelligence by solving Mirandas problems through sheer smarts. That said, i immensely enjoyed FM and have no problem whatsoever with her being larger than life.

I guess I'll pile on. +2.

I honestly have found little wrong with the guys. They're men who will do anything for their women but they have vulnerabilities, insecurities, emotions just like real people. I actually like how you write guys because I can definitely imagine them as real people. They have steel when they need to, perhaps you maybe don't show that as often as people like? Your first two heroines were like that too, I thought Miranda fell more into the Mary Sue category. I read VNs because I like cutesy romance with plot and a little spice. However, I think that it's more a problem with your errr, to be blunt, audience. Many of the guys who play games like this are projecting and looking for studly manly man to kick ass, take names, and get the girl. Thus, they can project onto those sort of guys. Men with those silly emotions or who sometimes defer to others show "weakness" because they hit too close to home. It's the difference between those looking for projection porn vs. a story. Just my two cents here.