A unique player for one of the ‘70s rarest music formats
Better late than never. This week I’m featuring what appears to be a ridiculously rare device - this may even be the only surviving example. That’s unlikely, but I also suspect I won’t be tripping over another one any time soon, so it’s a good job I managed to acquire this.
Anyway here you go - nearly forty minutes of an old bloke looking at a thing that’s roughly the same age he is but looks to be in better shape.
Due to the complexity of this video it’s taken me well over a week to assemble. For a few years now I’ve been putting a new video out each Saturday morning. Recently in order to accommodate everything that life throws at me I’m thinking about adopting a more flexible system. I’ll finish a video when it’s finished which might take perhaps as little as four days or as much as ten days - it depends on the subject. I’ll then post the video on Patreon and perhaps three or four days later (depending on when the Patreon views dry up) I’ll make the video public. This should take off some of the pressure but will also ensure that the videos aren’t rushed out.
Take it easy and I hope you enjoy the video.
Comments (92)
Almost certainly not worth the bother, but the wifi mode might be able to talk to the Sony HAP S1 or similar if you still have that? Or maybe it's a DNLA thingy that can beam to the telly?
You're awesome! Love this
Do you know anything about SDAT? (stationary DAT) It would be interesting for anime fans because of the prominence of Shinji’s SDAT player in Neon Genesis Evangelion. His is based off of the real world WMD-DT1 I guess DCC is more or less SDAT.
Exactly. DCC is SDAT, I’ve got an old article somewhere where they describe the difference between the two and state that Philips is working on a SDAT solution.
The insert shot at https://youtu.be/tkkx2h-rIEI?t=361 looks straight out of Thunderbirds, when they would use actual human hands to show pushing a button, instead of trying to use the puppets. FAB, Mat!
Those inserts always had the effect of taking away my suspension of disbelief while watching Thunderbirds - funny really when something real stops me believing in string puppets.
Btw what camera are you using? Your image quality is amazing. Are you using the colour page in Resolve or is everything straight out of the camera?
All the shots of the player and carts (with the exclusion of a couple of macro shots) were done with a Sony ZV-1. The talking head bits were a Sony A6400. I just use the straight out of camera clips, no grading.
That jacket gag! 😂 And I love the ingenious ways the engineers have of getting around the fact that microcontrollers have not been invented. That rotary encoder is brilliant.
Brilliant, loved the joke about the corduroy flares!!
Another superb TM video about another interesting obsolete music player.
Another banger. Thanks g.
Yet another iteration of the humble magnetic tape player. I can't think of any other medium that has been used for so many different reasons, everything from reel to reel spools, through to hi pac and 8 track players, cassette players, mini and pico cassettes and even computer game cartridges. Theist is endless. I watched a you tube news item about a small but growing band of VHS movie enthusiasts who miss the whole Blockbuster Saturday night movie night with rented film and popcorn thing. There is even a lone but thriving Blockbuster store in the states. I guess in about 10 years time you will have to start covering this format also
I take it you’ve seen the videos of the chap who built his own Blockbuster in his basement. I don’t have any nostalgia for this myself as I only rented tapes perhaps a dozen times in total and only in the mid to late 80s from a local independent store.
Just amazing what they tried to achieve with this device. But as they didn't "take off", I'm glad to have had a look at one. The HiPac tape size is funny, though, as if it was scaled down to match the size of a Datsun 510. A Fiat Nikki would probably have a Dictaphone micro cassette, if at all.
So, I might be losing it but I swear I hear some sort of static or grounding issue at 38:19 when you touch the hipac player.
You ... removed ... the jacket. Because ... it wasn't required. I so wish I could come up with a witty response that could accurately convey my external disgust and internal joy at that line ... The 70-V output gave it away for me.
The solution to publish a video when the video is ready, is a good choice in my opinion. Try to keep the things always into 7 days do not work well all the time. My little channel can't survive the algorithm with less than one video per weeks, otherwise I certainly do the same
Thanks
Really great video. I wonder if you're getting the 'bargain bin' hipac tapes and ALL the good ones have long since gone to collectors....
I’m sure the cream has been skimmed off - but then again there are so few titles out there that I had to take what I could get.
Mat, I am a professional comedy writer. I’ve been nominated for Emmys and stuff. I only bring this up to say that YOU killed me with that “No Jacket Required” joke. It made me laugh out loud. I know other professional comedy writers who could not construct such a great joke about a Phil Collins 8-Track. In addition to you being a great presenter who finds the coolest stuff, you are also VERY funny. -Jake
Thanks - I take whatever compliments I can get. There aren’t too many chances to get silly with much of this stuff, so when opportunities like that pop up - I’d be a fool to ignore them.
Brilliant episode! I really want to know how the announcement tape mechanism is supposed to stop. It seems weird like you said that they wouldn't just use the same metal foil sensor to turn off until the next time interval. If it's tone based, would the mic somehow record a tone through that other track head and not be heard over the announcement?
I understand why they wouldn’t use foil as announcements can vary in length - but beyond that I’m clueless as to the intended operation.
Did you clear out your desk? because it looks so empty in the disassembled parts. but nicely decorated in the bits to camera...
I just use the section in the middle for filming - the area in front of the monitor.
I'm just guessing here, but because of its size and the fact that it's by the fuses, that capacitor may just be part of a circuit tuned to eliminate line hum. In which case it probably takes a different wheel to change speeds. Does the existing wheel have two grooves? It's hard to tell in the video.
There’s only one possible belt position.
I love these "what the hell even IS this audio player" videos. The design has also got me pining for the most technically-overcomplicated multiple slice toaster ever. (My reaction might be influenced by the fact that my countertop toaster oven died a couple of days ago. I've gone without morning toast ever since. This aside, however, I believe that a toaster with individual horizontal drive bays for the bread, each separately instrumented, with too many knobs and indicators and cryptic acronyms, would be a very commercial product.)
I needed to buy a new toaster last week. After studying them for way too long - I ended up going with a U.K. classic - the Dualit. Made to order by hand since 50BC or something - it doesn’t even auto pop up because that’s too modern. It does do good toast though - and way quicker than anything else I could buy. The toast is ready before the kettle has boiled now.
Looooovvvveeeee!!! Congrats on this wonderful video.
Superb video, as usual. I was wondering -- you've already had a brief interaction with Sam from LMNC, and I imagine you must have to deal with storage issues for all these old components -- have you guys thought of making a small display in Sam's museum for old audio formats? Might be a good place to temporarily hold stuff like this where you don't plan on using it in the near future; just a thought. Thanks again for the video.
This might not be overly relevant given that you came up with a different solution, but someone that is proficient with modelling for a 3D Printer could probably create a template to churn out new cartridges as required without having to sacrifice old ones. Assuming that the actual magnetic tape can be sourced from a casette since you mentioned it's the same size as casette tape.
I’m never going to record anything again on one of these - that was just a one off for the video. However I suspect that as with all 3D printing solutions - it’s not as easy as it might sound otherwise I’m sure people would already be making these for the tape delay users and someone would definitely be making 8-tracks for all the new novelty album releases. Endless loop tape also tends to be carbon backed so that it slips over itself. I don’t believe anyone manufactures this type of tape any more.
Just word of caution when it comes to not releasing on a schedule. Youtube algoritm seems to be a bit autistic, in that it really doesn't like irregular postings. That won't change much for me (I just wait for the patreon mail/message), but it might hurt overal views. But I guess you did consider this already, and you should do what suits you....I just thought I would mention it.
From what I understand so far - everything counts against a video being a success and the best I can hope for is not to cause more negative damage through any decision I make. I’ve yet to discover anything that weighs more towards a positive result though - just the things that take away.
Well, Mat, you never cease to amaze and delight with the retro tech you come across and demonstrate so superbly! The only thing I noticed that you didn't address is that there appears to be provision for some sort of guard to be fitted over the record button - presumably to prevent some mischievous employee making an inappropriate announcement tape. (Not something I can believe would ever happen in Japan!). Is there any reference to a guard in the manual, I wonder? Thanks for another great video - have a good weekend.
I noticed that too - but no there’s nothing in the manual and the holes don’t appear in the illustrations. Perhaps there should be a raised plastic surround to the button that has fallen off.
Thanks for showing this device, very interesting! Also showing the inside and the clever way they built it, very nice! About the capacitor: I guess that's not regulating the speed, as the frequency does, and I would expect than a 5:6 ratio of capacity... As Jac Goudsmit said, look underneath the fan... Although, I now see the comment from Jeremy Travis also, I guess it is worth a try, well, you should replace it anyway to make it reliable at 50 Hz anyway.
Fascinating, Mat! The background music origin is given away by the 70v output on the back. This would have been to run around the premises to maybe half a dozen mono speakers, each having an individual step-down transformer to drive each speaker. 70 or 100-volt lines were often used for PA systems because higher voltages incur less losses over long cables. It must have a fairly powerful amp inside to run these. Personally, despite Jeremy above, I doubt changing that cap would change the speed, but try it anyway! You can't do any harm. :-) Brilliant video and very clever technology. I'm as impressed as you obviously are with the format used for this purpose.
Yes as soon as I saw that I knew that it was a BGM machine too - but I only got to see around the back when it arrived - potato cam man just took a single front panel picture of the device from a distance in the dark seemingly while riding a pogo stick.
Any old and possibly dead tech will do. Weird formats are the best ones you do. But still keep showing strange appliances like a Bluetooth tree with at build mug holder/heater. I watch everything through to the end and it's all gold
Don't know why, I'm never going to get any of these devices, not even as fancy living room gadget displays, I don't care for vehicle cameras or kitchen appliances, CDs, tapes and the lot can sod off as far as I'm concerned, but still your content is by far the best and most intertaning on YT. Keep it up 👍🏻
That makes me wonder though what I could show that would be right up your street - that would be a double win.
Changing the capacitor should change the speed of the motor Mat. If you remember the reel to reel recorders and the capacitors across the synchronous motors. The compactors control the speed of the motor. Sony machines had dual capacitors across the motor. They changed the speed of the motor for 50 / 60 Hz supplies on the dual voltage models. It saved changing drum, capstan or spinal diameters in the recorders, to achieve the correct speed.
Interesting - thanks. I’ve had advice both for and against so far - but this does sound plausible.
I think its fine to put videos out whenever. I feel like the only way to be sustainable with a weekly video when your videos have such a range of required input effort is to have a good sized buffer. The trouble is that is almost impossible to build up a buffer when you run solo.
I just wanted to say thank you for doing these long form, deep dive videos. I really enjoyed it. Even though I have no interest in HiPac, just seeing it working and now seeing it working as a bg machine was great. No YouTube shorts for me! 😉
"So, the only way to find out was to order it and have it shipped over here." 😁👍
Wonderful video Mat! I wish I could help you with your capacitor question but it's been 30 years since I've completed my electronics program so I'm a bit rusty.
Super interesting stuff as always!
My electronics Fu is mostly about digital electronics, so I don't know if the capacitor will make a difference or not. But I wonder if you checked whether it's possible to put the belt on a different part of the pulley behind the fan, or in a different place on the flywheel?
I haven’t looked - and I should do.
Fascinating stuff, really enjoyed this video!
My favorite aspect is when you find things you didn't expect. Case in point, the hidden speaker. Your voice speaks volumes about how much you enjoy these things. That joy is contagious. I liked your previous video about Hipac and this was an interesting follow-up - and no less enjoyable, another obscure background music system. I, for one, got a good kick out of the "No Jacket Required" joke. I have sentimental feelings for that album. How similar or dissimilar are these carts with the other obscure 3M Revere-Wollensak system? I hope the 2 years in development of this video pays off. Have a good evening/weekend and take care.
If I ever do get to feature the Revere/Wollensak system you’ll hopefully get to see that it’s pretty much different to everything else - it’s definitely one on its own.
I love how well-built that machine is. BTW I think it dates to 1976, as there appears to be a date code on the internal speaker (7617).
That would be interesting as it would indicate an extension of the Hipac story.
I'm glad to not have lived through the tape format wars. I already suffered the Beta/VHS, DVD/HD-DVD wars and the EPUB vs MOBI/Amazon formats. I'm sure I've forgotten many. Thankfully.
"I'll just take this jacket off as apparently it's not required". Outstanding!
Pretty awesome piece of equipment. It's incredible to think of the engineering that went into this, only to have it almost completely lost to time. Great job as always. Thanks for sharing.
Mat, regarding the 50/60 Hz issue, why don't you just power the machine from a pure sine-wave inverter like the kind sold for use in automobiles? You wouldn't even need your step-down transformer, as you could use a common UK-compatible 12-Vdc power supply and run a U.S. inverter off of the 12 Vdc. It wouldn't be the most efficient thing in the world, but you'd reliably get 120Vac at 60 Hz.
I’ve shown these in a few videos over the years e.g. https://youtu.be/_dgO0HdPMds - but they’re a mess to leave set up. I’d rather just use the other machine than have all those wires cluttering up the place.
"Jacket not required"...groan... :D
Yeah, Jeez Mat that was such a Dad joke.
Very good video. As always.
Another great background music system video on a rare tape-based system. Have you looked into Fidelipac or other tape-based background music systems that were available in the West? I have a Seeburg 1000 BMS-2, and two of the records I own for the machine were created not by Seeburg, but by Rowe International under the name "Customusic." It turns out Rowe made a Fidelipac-based background music system in the 60s and 70s under the name "Programaster."
Wow was aware of multi 8 track players but not multi hipac. What an interesting informative video enjoyed very much. Looking forward hearing history behind it in an pateron video maybe
The capacitor is for the 2nd winding of the motor. Replacing it with the right value will make the motor run more stable/powerful. But it won't change the speed. I believe they would use the same methode as in the other one and change one of the wheels. Some more info can be found here: https://www.electrical4u.net/electrical/why-capacitor-is-required-for-single-phase-motor/
Yes, the capacitor is for a second winding on the motor. This music player almost certainly has a synchronous motor, unlike the induction motor in your link. But the principle of how the capacitor shifts phase for the second winding is the same. The only way to change the speed is to put a different motor or different pulley in.
Regarding your own tape playing continuously, I noticed that you didn't use any foil on the splice. The foil may be elsewhere and we just didn't see it but the machine clearly had electrical contacts for this in the CM slot, so without the foil maybe it just doesn't know when to stop. Very interesting regardless and very nicely put together.
I did try the foil on the CM slot - I mention this at 36:51 - however I appreciate that many viewers will want to skip sections of the video because it’s too long
I like your videos on Background Music Machines in general and this is an interesting addition to them. All the ones I remember you showing were based on vinyl records on giant monolithic tapes. It was cool to see one based on a tape changer. Also I was also amazed that this was the first to have a method to insert commercial messages. But given how the others work, it would have been hard to do have message unless you had a second player of some sort. As for the tone idea for the commercials, that makes perfect sense. You have shown things for the blind that used tones, the evidence recorder that used tones, so why not this? With tones you could have multiple messages on a single tape for variety instead of the same message every 3 minutes.
Japan loves to abbreviate words. Especially borrowed words such as Convenience Store (Conbini) or Air Conditioner (Eakon.) CM is common abbreviation for "commercial" in Japanese. For example if you wanted to search YouTube for Sega commercials you would put "セガ CM" as the search term.
Aside from the 8-Track style self-destructing sponges, those HIPAC cartridges look quite well designed, and that machine is truly ingenious! The carts are so small, even compared with compact cassette, that it kind of makes me wish they had caught on.
That thing just screams Pioneer H-R99 and H-R100 in design. My experience with Crown of Japan is mostly cheaper audio stuff. I wonder if they have any connection with Pioneer. Pretty sneaky that they kinda mimic the American Crown logo. How close is the format to a Playtape?
The previous Hipac video delves into the connection between the two formats - they are related… https://youtu.be/Q_9IBIcsYj4
I get enormous satisfaction every time I hear Mat say the word "Japan."
For me, it's "assume."
I would not expect that the capacitor would govern the speed of the motor. if it was a solid state device then the capacitor could be for timing but most likely the capacitor is to filter out 50/60 Hz line noise. The most probable way of changing the speed would be moving the belt to another ratio. But I doubt changing the cap would cause any problems if you would like to experiment. any way a great video and I look forward to the resolution if you manage to achieve the slow down.
I kind of wanted to see the spindle on the motor ... I would have guessed it has two diameters and you can slip the belt onto the other one. Other options would be a different spindle altogether, or a motor with 5*n synchronous windings rather than 6*x (e.g. 50Hz vs. 60Hz.) If it's the motor, it might be possible to swap in a 50Hz synchronous motor. Wikipedia says the tape speed is 3.75 ips; if the spindle is about 1/2" diameter, it would need to rotate about 290 rpm; and the motor-to-flywheel ratio looks like about 5-10x, so the motor would rotate 1450-2900 rpm. My guess is 1800 RPM at 60Hz which is likely what you'd get from a raw synchronous motor.
That capacitor is just for the surge protection, judging by its location on the same small board with the fuses. Nope, it won't change anything. Look into the AC to DC board, the one with the transformer and the one following it by the power rails, there should be something. I guess, at 50 Hz all the DC electronics in the machine, including the motor, runs slightly undervolted, something like 4.5 V vs the correct 5 V.
I thought as much. Thanks for the info. I’m going to leave the section in the video because it shows how utterly clueless I am.
You, me, and other YouTubers (The Retro Future); life gets in the way of a schedule. Seems like fewer uploads generally lately. My view is the same as podcasts, don't commit to a schedule, true fans like me are happy whenever one goes live.
Had a long, hard week, and looking forward to a relaxing Friday. Then, one of Mat’s videos pops up and seeing him in one of his shirts suddenly makes everything right with the world again… thanks Mat!
"CM" is commonly used Japanese English for "commercial" (such a TV commercial). Maybe it was intended for announcing things that were on sale, etc.
I should have spotted that - it’s a search term I use to find old Japanese adverts on YouTube.
God only knows if it matters to the YouTube God's but I can certainly say as a patron I definitely don't mind you taking an extra few days to make quality content like take this. My favorite type of videos you put out are the ones where you are chronicling these old and unique items that otherwise would be forgotten.
Great video as always
They always say that publishing videos regularly helps you with the algorithm, but I don’t know how closely they analyze that. Does regularly publishing on the same day of the week matter? I know many of the people I subscribe to have regular schedules from things they mention in their videos, but as a viewer I really don’t care and can’t remember when anyone is “supposed” to have a video out. Maybe I am the exception.
Based on my recent experiences - the success or otherwise of any video is based on random multiplied by random - divided by the second number you thought of.