A DJ Turntable from Dual (that’s really neither of those things)
I’m starting off the year by reviewing a budget ‘DJ’ turntable picked up from the discount supermarket chain LIDL. Despite sounding multiple warning bells due to dubiuous branding practices and overstated abilities, there’s definitely still something of merit here.
This was a relatively straightforward video for me to make over Christmas. With little to go wrong, it allowed me to take Christmas day off and yet still get a video finished.
I’ll be interested to see how this fares. The original ‘Aldi Boombox’ video was surprisingly popular. Will a review of a turntable from their rival LIDL be similarly well received. The answer of course is no...but one can hope.
Last week’s video - the Plug & Play Train Sim - seems to have attracted a reasonable amount of attention now it’s live on youtube. It just shows that I still can’t predict what will be a hit or a miss. I’ll just continue my blunderbuss scattershot approach of making videos about things that interest me and hopefully some of them may be of interest to others too.
Take care and have a happy *Sunday.
*Insert the day of the week you’re reading this, to get an accurate message.
Comments (98)
it was a store that opened a week ago, popped into today and saw they had a pile of them. maybe a store opening special offer https://imgur.com/uzxBrFa
It’s definitely a good deal if you know someone who is on a budget - it looks like a shark took a bite out of that top one though.
this has now been discounted in LIDL to from £89 to £44.99 (-49%)
I’m shocked that any of the stores have stock 8 months later - everything from the bargain bins usually vanish in two weeks at the absolute most. Perhaps they ran the promo again a couple of weeks ago.
Great Video and I think really good information for people looking for a budget Turntable. I think for starters it can be really overwhelming. Ask on any Forum for a Deck under X Amount of Euro and people will tell you to buy used or claim every deck under X will definetly damage your records. It's frustrating and with people giving such broad stroke answers its hard for a beginner to distinguish between a decent budget option and the less reasonable ones. I started out with a turntable that Aldi sold a few years ago and it was a similar machine to the one in this video. It was not all terrible and a cartridge upgrade might have been an easy improvement to sound quality. Of course as things go I upgraded the whole Turntable not too long after. But I think it was a better starting point than getting a beat up used one and being frustrated instantly.
I have a Dt 450 pre-amp isn´t good xD i deactivted it.
Ok thanks im wanting to buy a record player i thought I'd ask you as you've experience with them although I don't want to bother you too much as no doubt your busy id probably better off checking ebay or something like that thanks
If you see one you like, feel free to mention the model here and whilst I probably haven't used it myself (that's a club with probably less than twenty members) - perhaps someone else has. I'd start off by writing down the features you want and a budget and seeing what fits.
I matt i woner what your thoughts are on a denon modle dp-29f record player are they worth getting or not many thanks
I’ve no personal experience with this one at all. I’ve had a quick look and to me it looks really cheaply made. I wouldn’t want to put anyone off buying what they like - but it’s not one I’d want.
I've no idea whats happend to my patreon account but for some reason my pledge this month dint go through till I just looked into it and sorted it
Don’t worry about it - it happens all the time.
I have bought quite a few tools and woodworking machinery from Lidl, and it is generally decent stuff, surprisingly good for the price
I do think the buyers are doing their job properly - they source out reasonable quality things they can sell at low prices rather than the cheapest junk possible.
I think you're absolutely right that DJs use higher tracking forces (and also rugged cartridges with conical styli) so the stylus stays in the groove during all the "stunts" they do. They will just dial in a higher tracking force with the counterweight and that's it. It's not like one of those cheap turntables you once tested that uses a spring for tracking force. So yeah, I'd stay away from DJ records and the tracking force they use is only one reason :-) Perhaps you're also right that it really isn't that consequential. I found it a bit misleading and it bugged me, but maybe that's just my OCD nature :-)
I hope nobody has said this before (the Patreon comment section is terrible): I enjoyed your review and agree with it, except for one thing: I don't agree with your statement that a "DJ" turntable would put more tracking force on the record. That should really be down to the cartridge you're using and something like a Technics 1200 should be able to use cartridges that support light tracking forces just fine. The better tonearm on a high-quality turntable like that should *reduce* wear if anything. Also, the AT 3600L cartridge that comes with this turntable is (relatively) heavy-tracking at 3 grams. It should be possible to install an AT91 stylus on the existing cartridge though, which would reduce the nominal tracking force to 2g. I think the Technics 1200 and its ancestors weren't born as "DJ" turntables anyway. They were high-quality manual turntables and DJs started using them - so they became what we think of today as "DJ" turntables. At least that's the story as I understand it. So, perhaps it might be good to revise that section for clarity and avoiding angry comments :-) In other news, I recently installed a stylus on a turntable like this for a friend (Also a Dual, basically the same thing but Direct Drive). I basically agree that it's pretty decent. What I didn't like was that the tonearm bearings had play *and* "stiction" (didn't move freely) at the same time. This was a used unit though and was given to the friend a while ago, so this may not be what these things are usually like. Apart from that... pretty reasonable turntable.
I’m not a DJ and don’t pretend to be - but everything I’ve read about proper DJ turntables used in the field tell me that they apply more tracking force than a home deck and as a result it’s not a good idea to buy used DJ records. If that’s demonstrably wrong then fair enough - but that’s what I’ve read, so it’s all I’ve got to go on. I have to trust some information and if dozens of unconnected people have said the same thing then I’ve got to assume there’s some truth in it. The alternative is to be paralysed by doubt and never say anything. It’s a youtube video that few will remember 48 hours later. I get people disputing everything I say whether it’s right or wrong - I’ve been hassled by anti maskers and I’ve been told that COVID is a fake virus, so at this point whether something can be categorically proved to be true or false no longer matters to many - they’ll make their own mind up regardless. .
At 21:42 "I'm not going rave about it" for my money and your style, that is a raving good review. :-) Top notch as always. And I glad to know that there is an "off the shelf" phono drive just like there is a tape drive.
Nicely done! Sorta kinda want to buy one! And I need to work “tat” into my daily vocabulary. Cheers! Eric
Thank you for a great video - really living up to your moniker towards the end there ha ha! It's so good to hear those home truths about that nasty, generic (but obviously vintage!) mechanism. Indeed, it really does seem like an alright piece of kit. I really appreciated the title of this one because initially I didn't read it properly. When the video started, despite knowing of the 'brand' I expected a dual deck (I assume all good DJs used them, but what do I know?) and was reassured to read the headline afterwards. It's that meticulous attention to detail that will keep those pedants at bay!
That was a great video. The title would be better if it reflected that this is also a set up tutorial. Great vid.
Yes it’s difficult to get everything across in the limited space a title allows. Hopefully by now a lot of people are used to my videos often going off in a bit of a tangent.
Great video. I've got the Technics SL-1210GR. The attention to detail the engineers went through to reproduce the SL-1200/1210 is fascinating. It really is quite a impressive clone .. down to the platter, headshell, the tone arm, even the screw for the headshell design. Very clever copies. I can just imagine the engineers sitting in a room taking a part the SL-1210 and figuring out how they can make the parts only for a few cents ;-)
I have a silver and black SL-1200 and this does look like a very good clone of it aside from the plate covering the hole where the light stick that lights up the tone arm while it’s playing. From a distance I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between that and one of the more modern Audio Technica versions with a built in preamp and USB output.
Great video! Question I would like to submit for the oddcast 😝. I was watching your video on 8-track tape: https://youtu.be/XLZS0Sj9-1U it appears to be your first or maybe one of your first retro tech videos. It made me wonder how did you get the idea to do a video on old tech and did you ever expect it to become one of the main focuses of your channel?
Or maybe you all ready had a similar question like this hahah.
Thanks for the nice video. Happy new year!
Would you believe it! After watching this video I went to our budget turntable to compare, and thankfully found that the mechanism and adjustments were VERY similar to this model. The upgrade is that ours has a way to record mp3 files directly to a thumb drive. The best AU$149 I ever spent at the now defunct Dick Smith's.
Remember if you can't sell a product based on it's quality, you sell the dream or the nostalgia associated around it. Thanks for coming to my PiraTed Talks.
I should say duel rather than dual.
I see some people here wish to see a Techmoan branded turntable. I say the coolest thing would be a Techmoan branded Tefifon! Or should that be Tefi-Moan?
Great video as always, Matt. As a very side note, in the states I have always heard the brand name "Dual" pronounced like "do all." I have no idea where that came from, as we pronounce the word "dual" just the way you all across the pond do. I just think it's interesting.
Has anyone seen one that is currently for sale in the US? This barely adequate at this price point might be the perfect thing to replace my aging Sony direct drive turntable, and fit within my "Christmas money" budget. I found this turntable on US Amazon that looks to me like it might be the same mechanism, but with blue tooth and volume control tacked on. https://www.amazon.com/Victrola-Record-Player-2-Speed-Turntable/dp/B07JVK44M9/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=turntable+speed+control+belt+drive+adjustable+tone+arm&qid=1609723927&s=electronics&sr=1-4
Me again, sorry. I pointed out that a friend's Crosley wasn't doing his "vinyls" any good, and was very pleasantly surprised to see he'd upgraded to an Audio Technica LP60. Probably on a par soundwise with the Dual one here. He said the quality between that and his Crosley was like night and day. Funny that!
I recently looked at a Roberts radio/cassette player for the bedroom. My mother's words were "Oh, it's Roberts, they've been around decades, it's got to be good", but all reviews claimed it was awful and very badly made (Tanashin, of course!) I've also seen Polaroid stuff in ASDA, which clearly isn't them either. Makes you wonder how people can get away with it. Mind you, remember Victor Lewis-Smith making comedy shows under the Associated Rediffusion name in the 90s?
If you want to punch your screen - read this. https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2018/08/06/vinyl-visionary-how-a-digital-dealmaker-revived-victrola/?sh=dea3abe4dee2 It’s all about a guy with a dubious moral compass who tried to sell cheap Chinese-made crap, it didn’t sell well, so he bought the Victrola name to stick on it and now Americans are falling over themselves to buy the same awful crap he couldn’t peddle before and he’s now a multi-millionaire. The magazine thinks he’s a genius. He thinks he’s a genius and I think... well - I’d best leave it there. But honestly hand on heart - if I were offered the same deal, say to buy the Sansui name and stick it on cheap tat and become a millionaire - I'd turn it down. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night thinking about all the people who wasted their money because of me. You've got to be able to look yourself in the mirror.
Great video Matt. Interesting that the original factory in Germany is still running and selling under the Dual brand as well. Very good overview of both this machine and the rubbish generic turntable mechanism which you described as total tosh, so well!
I was happy to hear that the real Dual was still functioning too - I thought it might all have gone to the dogs, but it’s not so.
Thanks for this one. I got the same player branded "Nikkei". Because of your video I finally got the counterweight right.
It’s taken me a few goes over the years before I finally got the gist of this part of the process too. In some older videos you’ll see me getting it wrong.
It makes sense to buy a turntable that will give you the best results from the investment into your album collection. Not only will you get superior sound but you will reduce the risk of the turntable and stylus causing excessive wear on your albums. My daily driver turntable is a Technics SL-10 linear tracking. I bought it initially because it thought it was cool but now I like it because it is compact, not much bigger than an album cover. I used to have SL-1200 turntable I bought new old stock and used it for about 5 years then later sold it for more than I paid for it which I thought was amusing.
You know I like those Technics models too. I’ve got a SL-10 in storage that’s sitting there ready to sub the Denon if anything goes awry.
A great instructional video. Thank you for showing how to set up the anti-skating and tracking force. It looks like the manual walks you through it, but it's always better to see someone demonstrate it. I'm thinking about getting a turntable, mainly to transfer a stash of old LPs to my computer. Haven't used a turntable since I was a kid in the 70's, and that model was likely junk as we couldn't have afforded a really nice one. This Dual one might be all I need. But I'm willing to spend more for better build quality, as I am a tad nervous about the susceptibility to vibrations you show in the video.
I’m glad that section was useful, I wasn’t sure whether anyone would want to see it in that much detail. I think you’re right to be wary of the vibration. This shows that all those manufacturers going on about their granite plinths etc aren’t talking complete nonsense - weight and dampening can be quite important.
Nice video. Record players are much more fun when their purpose is to play old albums picked up from yard sales. I'm glad that there are a few models at the intersection between Good, Affordable, and Easily Obtainable.
Nice to see a new turntable that’s cheap but not utter garbage. Every time someone asks me if they exist, I usually say no.
The Dual brand has obviously been battered and bruised, but as pointed out in the video the proper Schwarzwald factory (CS-series) still remains to this day! https://plattenspieler.sintron.de/en/home.html One of the few who still make *fully automatic* turntables, as it turns out. Any chance of a video comparing your Denon fully automatic to the brand new Dual CS 415-2? 🤓
No immediate plans - I’d pick the Denon every time due to the cool tech factor. However maybe one day I’ll pick something from the proper Dual range to test.
It is encouraging to see the border between "crap" and "ok" has dropped so far for turntables. Also, for me, the wide range of things featured on the channel are what make it exciting, so the "blunderbuss scattershot" is part of what keeps me coming back. I enjoy the videos on the odd items. If you don't make a video on them, who will?
This was great! It might be interesting to see you "mod" the turntable to an even more decent quality. Open it up, and add weight inside so it doesn't get affected by nudges as much; better felt or rubber feet on the bottom. Is there a way to "smooth out" the buttons a bit? I got it! Do this, and release a Techmoan branded record player!
Hmm, now i still don't know the audio quality of the USB "soundcard" in that thing. ;)
That makes two of us. It doesn’t show any specs.
my Grandson wanted a Turntable for his 18th Birthday his mother was going to get him one of them cheap ones, i told her that i would buy him a Decent Proper one and got him a Project Debut Carbon she was shocked that i payed £300 when she thought she could get one for £50 and 7 years on it is still going strong with just a stylus replacement that cheap one would have been in the Bin 6 years ago
I have the kinda the same record player, but it's Lenco branded and has a Direct Drive motor. The manual very badly explained the counter-weight, I didn't notice the screw on mine! I uses the same cartridge, but my manual says the tracking force should be 2 grams (which the specification of the cartridge also says). I'm quite happy with it. It plays fine and it's cheap to replace if anything fails on it. I noticed the bad feets which didn't absorbed any kind of vibrations as well. The new flat I moved in has a low table made of concrete to the wall, especially made for Hi-Fi devices. So that problem was sorted out by itself. Overall, I recommend everyone this player if you just want to play records. :)
I bet the little sticker or cover in the middle towards the front can be taken off to reveal two adjustments so you can get the speed to be spot-on when the pitch control is in the middle. Thanks for posting and Happy New Year, Mat!
In some models there’s a light in that section. You’ll find a picture of it in the link from MVVblog’s comment.
I used to be a Dual dealer when I worked in the Hi Fi trade in London. It was a respected brand. They took me out to see their factory in The Back Forest. It was an impressive place. They lost out to Technics and other Japanese brands in the end. Sadly I need to clear my house of old Hi Fi equipment due to old age and ill health.
I recall seeing a Dual Deck being demonstrated in the mid 1980s at the Bristol Hi Fi show. It was set up at a crazy angle playing a really warped record yet still tracked perfectly.
Funny to see the bottom speed indicator standing still in some of the shots, suggesting (or confirming) that the video was taken with 60 or 30 fps! Best wishes!
Yes I shoot in 4K30.
Matt! I hope your rant at the end comes across It can truly be useful to people. I still use my Thorens 146 mark V. Works alright. Wish you a great 2021!
That didn't even seem like a cheese sandwich video, also very informative. I will definitely be on the lookout for the cheep mech the next time I am looking for a turntable on Amazon.
It’s a half-cheese. There’s some dodgy editing in here - a bit rushed in places.
Great public service announcements! A couple of friends asked me advice about turntables as Christmas gifts, I think I successfully steered them away from the suitcase horror shows and introduced them to the concept of a entry level turntable and powered speakers. This video will be ideal when the situation occurs again :) thanks and continue with that blunderbuss ! Rarely misses on my radar 👌
I can't wait to see VWestlife's reaction to the PSA at the end of this video! I know he has a soft spot for super cheap turntables and recently made a video about that very mechanism.
I’d would hope he’s not the reaction video type of a person. You’ll never see me doing one. I’d rather make my own videos based on personal experience rather than piggybacking on someone else’s work like a parasite.
For the price I think that's a terrific bit of kit. Beats the new Crosley into a cocked hat by the look of it! Top review as always.
Hey Matt, look at this https://amzn.to/3rO2wvp , same turntable ! On your turntable there is cap in place of the light. This is the only difference. But the price is 3 time the Lidl one.
I was looking for a good picture of one with the blanking plate filled with something to use this in the video - but I drew a blank. I don’t know if it’s worth going back and adding this in...probably not now, but hey thanks for the link, just in case I do use it. Also - that’s one expensive light ;-)
Great video mat. Love my vinyl. Just curious what is the stylus? (And you know when you upload it someone will ask lol) . I personally own a nad 533 a rebaged rega planar 2.
I mentioned it briefly near the beginning - an AT3600. You’ll find quite a few mentions of this online and apparently it really is an Audio Technica https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/11-chinese-at3600l-thread-mk-ii-champagne-sound-on-a-beer-budget.842628/
Probably a dumb question, but is getting the dots staying still as accurate a method at getting the speed correct as using your wow and flutter machine?
It’s all very close - tiny imperceptible fractions of a % slow or fast. Not something you’d ever notice by listening.
Hey Mat! Great video, just so you know though, when you are doing the wow and flutter, there is a VERY high pitch tone that I am not sure you picked up or not. It's kind of maddening for the people who can hear it and I am sure you will be inundated with people telling you its there so id recommend either removing it if possible or putting a message on the screen, explaining "yes, there is a high pitch tone, it's needed for the test". Because I can guarantee you will get a bunch of messages about the tone from younger viewers with golden hearing. Or maybe a timestamp to skip it : )
When I think about these things I always think about how my Grandad (a Tailor by trade) was forced to go down the pit in WWII to mine for coal with a load of hardened convicts for the war effort. He was a nice old chap when I knew him. Never a bad word to say, never complained about anything. It’s funny how times change so that a very quiet noise played for twenty seconds in some free online entertainment is now something that people would complain about. But hey ho - I can’t delete it because the audio was recorded live and there’s no way to add a text overlay on a video once it has been published without a full delete and re-upload. I hope everyone understands but as you predict - they’ll probably fall to the floor like Kirk being attacked sonically by the Wow & Flutterers from Celti Alpha 6 - hands over their ears in faux pain.
As an aside, when I saw this turntable in Lidl (during the weekly shop), my only thought was “I wonder if Techmoan will do a video”. You’re becoming omnipresent.
A couple of people asked, but I’d forgotten all about it until I popped in for a few things and whilst they didn’t have a single loaf of bread on the shelves, they did have two or three of these.
Definitely looks like a rip-off Audio Technica AP-120-USB, most of the text on this unit looks identical. That said for the price point, it doesn't look half bad.
Probably from the same factory. My Mom has one branded as "Lenco". But good to know that not all of these "one factory, lots of names" products are crap!
How many does one have to order for putting your own badge on? I'd buy a "Techmoan" branded one of these.
I wouldn’t want the name on this - it’d have to be on something a bit more up my street. I’m looking forward to my Coturn CT-01 arriving in 2021, that seems more likely to be the kind of thing I’d be happy to be associated with. But I’ll let you know when (or if) it arrives.
I wonder if we'll see that at Lidl in the US. They have only been in the US for less than 5 years and it's become my favorite grocery store for cool stuff like this. Also we pronounce is "Leedl" across the big pond. (grin)
Great video! I bought the Denon deck you did a video on a while back which is excellent. I'd probably get one of these for occasional use for another room if I needed a budget deck.
I’ve always found the food (vegetables, nuts, chocolate, olive oil etc) very good so it doesn’t surprise me that the turntable is acceptable. To be honest I’d rather have that one rather than the Pro-Ject elemental I have - now I have MS I’m finding it impossible to attach the rubber “belt”. It’s sadly sitting attracting dust (it has no dust cover either). I don’t know what to do - save for a direct drive one I guess.
That belt was a nightmare to fit on my old Pro-ject turntable too - so I can fully appreciate that it would be utterly impossible in your situation. If you have a load of old records you still want to play - it seems like full-auto is the way to go. I still think the compact Technics from years gone are hard to beat for an easy to use turntable. The type I showed in this video https://youtu.be/348l5hBuruM
Happy new year Mat. Isn’t it amazing that they can manufacture and ship something that half decent for only £89. Certainly a much better bet for anyone considering vinyl than any of the Crossley suitcase crap - definitely a public service announcement. If only they would listen.
There’s a video title - please, pretty please, sugar on top; spend more on the record player that you do on your records!
Rant much? 😂 next time I go to urban outfitters I am going to see if the mechanism they use on their turntables is that cheapo chinesiam garbage
Oh you’ll be tripping over them.
Great video (as always) and i agree that those turntables are the cheapest worth buying. Just as a bit background information (that you probably already know): Almost all turntables that are sold today are manufactured by Hanpin in Taiwan, just like Tanashin is the last supplier of tape mechanisms. However, Hanpin offers a modular system with parts of different quality levels that can be combined depending on the needs of the buyer. They also offer modified parts if someone is buying huge quantities and willing to pay more, a good example for these modified parts can be found on the Pioneer PLX-1000. As far as I know the only „DJ“ turntable available nowadays that is not based on the Hanpin modules is the Technics SL-1200 MK7 and it’s HiFi styled twin SL-1500, even though there are rumors that they are also being build by Hanpin, just with different components. http://www.hanpin.com.tw/4_Products_02.html
Last I read the SL1500 is made in Malaysia not Taiwan. Have they moved production? I recall a lot of decent stuff from Sony coming out of Malaysia, so not really a bad thing given the price. Source: https://www.analogplanet.com/content/sl-1500c-technics-cuts-price-not-sound-quality
I can remember that my dad bought a Philips mini set in the beginning of the nineties which already had such a crap record player on there. I took the old hifi set upstairs to my room and bought a secondhand technics SL-1900 for 20€ (then is was something like 50 guilders) and I still have that one in use.
Liked it, more good advice. Keep looking at the wife's Denon DP-55K in the don't know what to do with it pile(s) and thinking I ought to set it up properly.
For record players, not only Tanashin, but also decent quality ;-). Thanks for showing Mat! O ja, and, Happy New Year!
Heya - have you seen this vwestlife video about those cheap turntables and their history? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1YIX5-CwhqM
Not yet, I’ve been working. When I get some down time, I’ll give it a watch.
I'd buy a TechMoan branded turntable! And I don't even have any vinyl (records) 🙂
"I’ll just continue my blunderbuss scattershot approach of making videos about things that interest me" This is surely the benefit you have from Patreon. I know you can't take our support for granted, but we evidently like your approach and are happy to keep paying regardless of what the algorithm thinks...