An expensive way to not clean a record (Updated)

Steve Rose had a great explanation of why you couldn't remove those cracks and pops, but maybe you could even remove those using the SAE 5000 Impulse Noise Reduction System? Completely analog pop and crackle remover. Aparently to demonstrate it the salesmen would put a razor on a new record, and show how the 5000 would completely remove the scratch. Only about $60 on eBay. I'd be interested in seeing a video on that, seems like a cool piece of kit.

Hi Mat, sorry for coming so late to the party but another great video. Vinyl and vinyl cleaning is my 'thing' as I collect and play a huge amount of vinyl. I have a Pristine Vinyl VIVAC suction record cleaner which is fantastic. I think the reason you found very little difference when you had cleaned the records is that you are hearing dirt that has now, unfortunately, become a permanent part of the record. When you play a record, the weight at that very tip of the stylus is relatively immense. Enough, in fact, to temporarily melt and soften the vinyl (it very quickly solidifies again). Any dirt that is in the groove can become melted into the vinyl and then a permanent part of the record which no amount of cleaning will shift. This is way a seemingly mint looking record can sound like frying bacon when played.

Nice edit! The puppets couldn't have given better remarks. Maybe, if you want to clean the records thorough, you should add sand to the pressure cleaner... Or just plain sand blasting would work even better ;-)

Hey there, for what it's worth, my regular record shop in San Francisco has two of those very pricey ultrasonic toaster-style fully automatic cleaning machines, and the guys charge about $2 to clean an LP on them, and in my experience the result is as good as you'll get with any method, and doesn't require time, rags, risking scratches, or getting your hands wet. As far as I'm concerned, I'll never try to clean an LP manually again! Thanks for the great videos.

I would say that most of what you call crackling is not dust and thus subject to be removed by cleaning. Records do get permanent noise because of many reasons which can vary from bad pressing, bad handling, excessive tracking force, damaged stylus or excessive anti skating force. What one hears in your records in the videos is both permanent noise i.e. cannot be ever removed and dust and I would say all the methods you tried did remove the dust and partially the noise caused from it. Records can be effectively cleaned with proper disc cleaners which use isopropyl alcohol and distilled water mixture and afterwards dried with vacuum, because any cleaning mixture left can damage the stylus bearings. The methods described in your videos are somehow effective but very expensive compared with the purchase and use of a proper record cleaner in the long run. If you are really interested into record cleaning I suggest you try one of the most affordable ones <a href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/PRO-JECT-VC-S-Project-Record-Cleaner-black/dp/B01BFCVRGC" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.co.uk/PRO-JECT-VC-S-Project-Record-Cleaner-black/dp/B01BFCVRGC</a>

Back in high school, photo class had a "static eliminator" for removing dust from film negatives. It seemed to work a bit but it was well past it's replacement date so most of the polonium-210 had decayed. With a half life of only 138 days, their apparently only effective for a year, so the "vintage" one we had was more of a curiosity than usefully. Not sure if you can still get them new or what permits are needed to buy such things now.

I like the updates, makes me wonder if the grooves can be blasted clean with a laser without damaging the record.

This is infuriating! These must be the cleanest reccords in the world and still they crackle. What is going on? Oh well, I'm probably going to buy that clamp thing, that looks good.

Sir, looks like there is interest in seeing some comparisons of methods used to clean the LP's.

Aw boo, looks like you took it down. Looking forward to seeing it when it pops back up. :)

Great video. I was amazed by how well the label protector worked. I was actually waiting for you to play the record after cleaning it with the spray and microfiber cloth, at the end of the video. It's almost like a cliffhanger: does that proven method work better than any of the others you tried in the vid?

Pressure washing. A vinyl record. And here I thought I'd seen everything. (well, not really) Although I am old enough to have bought records when there was no real alternative (I don't consider 8-track real; yes, I've seen Mat's videos) I am by no means an expert ... but ... could those crackles be something other than foreign bodies? Could they be defects in the surface of the media?

Great update. As a relatively new patron, I believe this is the first time I've seen both the "beta", and "release", editions of a video. Nicely done! Oh, and the high-pressure wash was hilarious. 😁 Couldn't help but being a bit concerned about the Tri-Micron as it is, after all, a somewhat rare mastering procedure. But it got out of it unscathed anyway. 😃 Could this be called "crackling clean", as opposed to "sparkling"? 🤔

i have the same microscope , i found you need to be as close as possible and it works pretty good

Haha.. that pressure washer idea, so very entertaining! But oh my... prepare for a flood of cringe comments from "vinylists" and hifi connoisseurs. ^_^

Well, I thought you set the context for going beyond the original remit very clearly, and also made it clear that this was an updated video. As to the content - well, I never thought I'd see a record power washed! Fantastic - AND it didn't make much difference. I won't be trying that one at home..... Good stuff, Matt.

Interesting, entertaining, and Well Done Mat... But it also brought back nightmares of the sixteen years I spent trying to keep my records clean; ultimately using a Zerostat gun and a Discwasher on a Sound Guard pad, and still putting up with pops, clicks, and tics, despite meticulous care and handling. I went completely to CDs in 1984, and I have only bought one vinyl album since then. I do not miss those days one bit.

At 8:37 you complain about people suggesting different ideas to what you introduced defending that it was a single purpose video only to, 50 seconds later, introduce an idea brought up in the Patreon comments... The exact same place where the former reside. And I can't help but wonder how or why one of your backer's comment gets bashed and another one make on the exact same conversation topic is worthy of praise. And unfortunately this is a recurrent sight on this channel, constantly patronising and complaining about people not reading the description box, people making idiot comments, people complaining that a video was too negative; and I'm sorry but unfortunately that's the way this line of business you chose goes: people are insensitive dicks. But one thing is venting against your YouTube audience (which on my opinion is quite unprofessional by itself) and another is doing it against your Patreon backers, especially when 50 seconds later you advertise it as a 'safe space' for discussion.

I think the secret would be to listen to your crackly record near a nice wood fire. The crackles will blend together.

Like the additional cleaning tries. Would have like to see (hear) how the same last record sounded after your standard cleaning technique.... Moral: Don't feed the bear, he will always come back for more :)

The main method I use is record cleaning fluid and a microfibre cloth, which is a lot more effective than just brushing with the carbon fibre brushes. For really crackly 45s from my mother's old collection, I've used a small ultrasonic cleaner with a pencil through the record balanced on two cups each side. I manually turn the record by hand, about 10s every ~30 degree turn. While my small ultrasonic cleaner does a pretty good job at getting rid of most crackles and pops, I find that going over the record in circles with the microfibre cloth and respraying with cleaning fluid 2-3 times is just about as effective. My main issue with used records is that many have distortion (i.e. played too many times with a bad / heavy stylus), which no amount of cleaning helps.

Do you have a dishwasher? 😁

As you have mentioned *this* video has NO song and dance, I shall now spend the rest of my day searching for your videos WITH song and dance.

Neat update. I guess if that pressure wash didn't get the dust out, then there is probably some other culprit for making those sound crackly besides just dust.

Thanks for doing the update. The pressure wash was a fun bit and did clear up some questions people may have had.

Ah, the Directors Cut, bring it on!

Looking forward to watching again for the updates! The bottom left thumbnail looks an awful lot like a record being cleaned in a cotton candy machine, but that could be my cold-brain talking. ;)

There is a mild "hydraulic press channel" quality to the part with the power washer, and I really appreciate it. "Dis reckord has very dangerous pop and crackle, and ve must deal vis it"

Honestly if you can find a *good* cheap way to clean a record really well, I'm all ears, because it's a world of snake oil and expensive vacuum machines from where I'm sitting.

I'd only ever used one of those carbon fibre brushes, but then I used to keep my records in museum condition (record once or twice and then never take them out of the sleeve).

Back in the day we (ITV Studio Sound) would use cool soapy water and a lint free cloth for our sound FX discs. Came in one day to find a trainee in tears, a couple of warped discs and steam everywhere. You can guess what had happened.

Maybe the fluid had dried out in storage. Perhaps adding some water would allow it to flow properly?

It would have been more interesting if you had tried the wood glue on it next to see if it made any difference. I wasn't aware of the wood-glue method either, so I guess I learned something one way or the other. I would think if the record didn't have any paper labels on it, you could just shoot it with some high pressure water. But I guess most records do have paper on them.

45 euros for what wood glue or washing up liquid could accomplish about as effectively. Fantastic... And also seriously, fantastic! Been wondering if these kits were any better than the usual DIY methods, having seen them in a couple local record shops. Happy to save a bit of cash due to this.

Would have loved to see you show a better solution or if the wood glood was just as bad/good as the expensive stuff you bought

This product reminds me of the liquid mask painters use on glass when painting door/window frames. Paint it onto the glass, wait for it to dry into a plastic film, then paint the trim. Once it dries you simply peel the mask off the glass. I wonder how well that product would work on LPs, especially since liquid mask sells for about $20 per quart/liter. Maybe a future Techmoan video???

You could use that Hamilton Breakfast thing to make a cheese sandwich!

Once a stylus squishes a tiny dust mote into the groove it's really hard to ever get it out, it's a tic/pop forever. Many cleaners and washing will eliminate most of the larger dust particles, and with a good brush work as well as can be expected. Most of us can't afford a hermetically sealed turntable for our new records, unfortunately.

Before reading your explanation of a Cheese Sandwich Video, I immediately thought of the time LGR made a basic cheese sandwich on LGR Foods. Which actually still somewhat fits with your description.

At the end of the day, it gets dark, oh and the purpose of the video is to review something and you've probably saved some people a fortune on what seems like a not very good, yet rather expensive cleaning product, so, no apologies required, LOL at 'headphones' complaint, can I also add that people viewing on Philips 'Ambience' LCD TV's are complaining of a little too much white light around the screen - so could you edit to have a little bit more blue at the edges of the screen - thanks!

Wow that was really underwhelming! Not being a huge LP fan (other than watching your videos), I'd not heard of the "glue" method so this was all a surprise. I can remember using a velvet-like brush Back In The Day and remember that it made enough of an improvement to consider it "successful" ... You should know, though, that I *am* pressing this video onto a gold vinyl video disc and attaching it to a deep space probe that I am launching next week. Just so you know.

I enjoyed this. Quite a neat simple video. I think you are too hard on yourself sometimes.

I have found a shaving brush works besft for me. The new generation synthetic fibre shaving brushes works fantastic. Removes dirt and dust and doesn't cause static either.

I built one of these... Keith Monk style... <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RRwqM_Js7Q&index=4&t=0s&list=PLtHi8YwMXhNurX8mzkPn4uy8xA37GmSBU" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RRwqM_Js7Q&index=4&t=0s&list=PLtHi8YwMXhNurX8mzkPn4uy8xA37GmSBU</a>

That music gave me flashbacks to being put on hold while trying to cancel my land-line.

For those ultra close-up shots, you might look on FleaBay for a used SMC-Takumar M 50mm f4 macro lens, or a Micro Nikkor 55mm f3.5. Both are manual focus, made for 1970s analog SLRs. Either can be had for under US $200. Either can be adapted (for fully manual exposure and focus, of course) to a Canon DSLR or a Sony mirrorless. Both are unbelievaqbly sharp, and are built to last forever.

For 40 years I've used either Dawn dish detergent or a good non-moisturizing liquid hand soap. Remove rings from fingers. In a deep (preferably non-porcelain) kitchen sink, run water as hot as you can tolerate. Wet the disk and your hands thoroughly. Apply soap to one hand. Rotate the record with the other hand while gently rubbing the soapy hand along the surface, concentric to the grooves (never across). Rinse very thoroughly. Repeat for the other side. Rinse again. Pat dry on a clean, pure cotton bath towel. I've cleaned literally thousands of records this way. I have damaged exactly two labels, and both of those were on "garage produced" 45s. I've seen red ink run from the labels on vintage London FFRR disks, but the finished product still looks as good as new. Success is a result of using a low-residue soap, very hot water, a thorough rinse, and prompt but gentle drying. This procedure of course will do nothing about scratches and scuffs, but it does eliminate noise caused by built-up dirt, inner sleeve contact marks caused by longterm storage in high humidity, and static. And the cost is about two cents per disk.

Hmm. As I recall, back in those far off days of yore known to the ancients as 'the '60s' we tended to 'clean' our records by rubbing them on our tee-shirts. Of course, we also had stacks of records on the autochanger, something else no dedicated audiophile would ever do.

Does anyone still use the Discwasher? I tried to find my Dad's vintage one from the early 80's.

Hi Mat- An affordable but effective system used in the U.S. is the Spin Clean (www.spinclean.com), which costs about $80 USD (£61 BPS). However, the most thorough cleaning system that I own is the ultrasonic KA-RC1 by Kirmuss Audio (www.kirmussaudio.net). It literally removes all of the contaminants and makes my LPs sound brand new. This is a more expensive system costing $870 USD (selling for £1,197.60 in the UK, tax included), but it can clean two LPs, one 45 and one 78 at the same time. I highly recommend it. Search for "Kirmuss" on Youtube, and you'll find lots of videos. Kirmuss Audio is headquartered in the U.S, but they have an office in the U.K. as well (Designer House, Sandford Lane, Wareham, Dorset, UK. BH20 4DY). Perhaps they would lend you a unit for testing, especially given your presence on YouTube. I'd encourage you to look into it. Regards, Tom

The first few seconds are particularly trippy for headphone users. Might want to tone that section down a little.

If you're interested, I put together a combination of cleaners and a process that really works. I bought three Disk Doctor cleaning brushes made with microfiber, a bottle of Disc Doctor fluid and a bottle of Mobile Fidelity cleaning fluid. The fluids are not the same. DD fluid has an emulsifier, where as the MoFo fluid is just you basic water based light cleaner. For the dirtiest records, i start with the DD fluid an saturate a DD brush. I bought an old turntable to use as a platform. Placing the record on the turntable and the brush on the record, I rotate the turntable and apply a little force to "scrub" the surface. Than I wipe it dry with a clean terrycloth rag. Flip the record and do the other side. Taking the record to the main turntable, I take another DD brush, saturate that with MoFi fluid, turn on the turntable and gently rest the brush on the record as it rotates. Wiping dry again with a soft terrycloth rag, making sure it is completely dry. Taking a third, dry DD brush, I gently "buff" the surface of the record to remove any loosened grime. If do the process carefully, I get an amazing result. If it doesn't seem to sound better, I did not to the process correctly and reclean using the entire scheme. This seems like a lot of work, but you only need to do it all once. After that, you might only need to use a static free carbon fiber brush to dust the record before playing or you might want to do the last part of the cleaning process using only the Mofi fluid, terrycloth rag and the two brushes. I'm picky about quiet records and this really works without doing any damage to the records.

I saw Fran Blanche try the glue thing and she was fairly unimpressed. It's always interesting to see what you'll find next though, Mat. :-)

I heard a tiny bit of difference on the second record but it honestly didn't do much of a good job, and it's definitely not worth the amount of time and effort. I have one of those vacuum cleaners for records, the Record Doctor, and the difference is night and day whenever I do a clean - even if I hadn't cleaned the stylus in a while. This fluid sounds like nonsense to me.

In the mid 80th we had a similar product at home, but with a sponge applicator at it's top to smear it on the records, otherwise it worked as you've shown... but the records got really clean(er). And the price was about 8 DM. I liked to use it on my LPs, but maybe they were much worse than your's :D

Ultrasonic and a legit turntable?

I never thought clicks and pops were a result of dirt and dust.... the stylus would plough through it and if that bad, leave a small furry stylus after the side was played - I remember having a little brush that sat on the stylus arm supposedly cleaning away the dust prior to the needle reached it, with a companion felt bad that wiped the stylus when the arm return to the rest position. Still if you’re looking for useless disc cleaners, anyone remember the battery-powered `Ronco record cleaner? Like toaster, you slotted the record in vertically and brushes on either side dislodged the fluff whilst a vacuum hoovered away the bits - and no I didn’t hear any difference either!

In the late 80's i had the nagaoka rolling cleaner, the yellow silicone roll on a handle that (in my memory) worked pretty good. They are still available but pretty expensive for my taste. I do not bother to clean my records as i like the sounds they make when playing. If I want a perfect version I just rip a CD or get it off Itunes.

Maybe try the wood glue technique just for comparative purposes (and for a bit of fun). If it gets the "TechMoan Seal of Approval/Disapproval", then that's all the world needs.

I am so pleased it isn't just me that can't get things like this to work like the illustration on the box! We've seen several novel record cleaners - I got an Orbitrac after seeing you demo it - and they all seem to work to some extent, but the results never seem to justify the expense compared to a simple brush and/or microfibre cloth and some proprietary cleaning solution. The biggest hurdle for thoroughly cleaning a record for me, is my own laziness. I am sure if you put enough time and effort in, you can remove all the contamination, but usually, I just want to listen to a record NOW, and so a quick brush is all it gets and I am prepared to put up with a few cracks and pops between tracks - frankly I can never hear them during the music. Thanks as ever for an interesting video, Mat.

Judging by the pictures on the box, I think that it's from the 80's.

I think the microscope did it's job quite nicely. Anyway, the idea is promising!

That was a thoroughly enjoyable cheese sandwich.

Since it is water-based, you could try microwaving it for 5-15 seconds. That should make it just a bit warmer. Perhaps something to try if you ever attempt using it again?

I do enjoy a nice chesse sandwich every now and then and indeed I enjoyed this video Mat. I would always worry about some gunk being left behind in the grooves from the process with products like this or scratching the record by accident trying to get leftovers off. Anyway as there was no noticable improvement to me I won't bother buying anything like this so won't have to worry about such risks.

huh, does that mean the woodglue thing is a myth too? I did the woodglue trick myself a number of years ago - I don't recall any earth shattering results compared to just soap, water, and a pad.

That looks exactly like "Disco Film" which has been available here in Germany during the 90s. I still have a bottle of it here and I sometimes use it when I buy a really dirty 2nd Hand record. From my experience: 1. It removes dust and residue of drinks on a record surface pretty well. As well as you experienced it's much easier to distribute it with a finger that with that "tool". I also found out that it works way better using the double amount of that fluid, let it try for 24 hours and just put some parcel tape on it, to get it off the record. As it's thicker there are less problems with parts remaining on the edge of the record. 2. It leaves a lot static charge on the record when being peeled off which often causes that crackling noise. It also makes the record acting like a dust magnet, which makes it sounding worse after some time. 3. As you mentioned: it's very very expensive What my preferred method of cleaning used records now is: 1. If there is a lot residue on the record I put some wood glue on it, with the same results as the recopack. It's cheaper but not so easy to peel off, as the glue is very stiff. But with some practice it works well. 2. After cleaning the record with the wood glue, or in case there isn't much dirt on it I only use this method, I just spit a 50/50 mixture of isopropyl, purified water and a drop dish soap on it. I remove that fluid with an electric window cleaner (I'm using a Kärcher WV5) and use microfibre cloth to dry the record. This eliminates any kind of static charge and leaves the record as clean as possible for a low budget. And when I don't clean records...I still have a gadget to clean windows ;)

I understand the need to preemptively downplay these sorts of videos, but I not only enjoyed watching this but found it really useful, too. As a rather reluctant user of a KAB-EV1 (it was all I could afford), I'm often drawn to these types of alternative, and it's good to get a straight opinion from someone I trust - if not a little disappointing to find I'm stuck wrestling with the Vax between my knees as I manually turn the platter!

did peeling it off feel good at least? And speaking as a record player noob: Why not simply use compressed air to blow the dust off?

Yes, but there’s supermarket basic cheddar on white sliced, and there’s mature organic hand made cheddar on organic sourdough. I think we’re in the latter territory here.

How old was the Recopack? It looked like it might have been sitting at the back of a record store for 30 years. May have been a fluid when it was new. All those pops and crackles bring back memories of trying to clean records with my Dad’s black velvet sponge thing- I don’t miss vinyl, prefer to watch you wrestle with it.

Informative video as usual. Shame it was so rubbish.