The tape recorder no one wanted to see
A chance find on ebay resulted in me picking up an interview recorder - a machine commonly used to record police interviews with criminal suspects. This one has an especially interesting history, but before I could find out about its unique way of recording, I first needed to get it working.
UPDATE - Thanks to the advice, corrections and observations received on what has now become the rough cut of the video - I’ve gone back and amended all the sections that weren’t up to snuff and made it look like I knew what I was on about - when in reality I’ve just crowdsourced a brain and shamelessly presented it as my own. Thank you for all the assistance with this one. The video above is now the updated version.
Comments (74)
Lovely professional build quality on that machine. The chip in the back is a microcontroller, the chip with the label on it would contain the program. The chip in the front is a seven segment decoder and display driver for the minutes display.
I really enjoy when you dive into a device that the public wouldn't have much access to. Seeing all of the "special" abilities of this machine that are specific for its purpose. (can't rewind, buzzing after no sound for a couple of minutes, automatic audio timestamp) Really cool! You have been killing it lately!
Agreed on all counts!
Great vid, as it happens I have a freind who served on Ocean, they never mentioned being interviewed though! Too well behaved I'm sure... Something I had always incorrectly assumed was that these machines recorded *backwards* as a feeble attempt to prevent tampering, obviously I was completely and utterly wrong. The reason I thought that is because I'm sure that years ago I read about a not-really-quite-a-factory that due to the collpase of the UK blank tape manufacturing industry was buying in tapes... 'and fully winding them forward before putting them back in their cases for police use'. But it seems as if I imagined it...!
I really had to wonder how many times a ship would need to break out an interview recorder - hopefully not too many. I expected this to record in an unusual way too - I was anticipating a slower than normal speed as it was just for voice.
Instead of a mystery video, why not try saying up front "Backgrounder on x and failure to repair". Also, why not consider "I'll ship the broken thing to a randomly chosen person who wants to take a try before 1 Dec 2018. Once every couple of months, do a 10 minute video using random.org to pick a prospective repairer. That sort of video often has huge numbers. If course they'll all pretty much fail, but who cares? And the occasional person might send you an actual repair vid...
Interesting ideas - it's very unlikely I'd get around to shipping anything as the post is something I don't like to get involved in. Perhaps I'll have to rethink that.
Well this was unexpectedly fascinating. Everything from the history of it to the synthesized voice to that Sony tape rewinder. Top tier Techmoan 👍
Thanks old chap - it definitely wouldn't be as good as this if the Patrons hadn't put me right on a few facts. It's always fun though when something has hidden depth. I originally conceived this as a ten minute video as it didn't look like there would be all that much to say.
"Almost romantic ... Takes me back to those all-night interrogation sessions ..." You are a hoot, Mat!
I just watched the edited version, and I think you fixed all the inaccuracies. I didn't notice when I watched the previous version that there's something weird going on with the heads (15:00). The erase head is not attached, and the record/playback head has non-shielded wires on the recording head, and shielded wires on the playback head. You say in the commentary that you think it uses the playback head to check if something is being recorded. That is possible and a good way to make sure 100% that the recording is actually working, but that would require a playback circuit and that raises the question: Why doesn't it have a playback button if it has a playback circuit? They can easily verify that there's sound coming in by checking the signal in the recording circuit. Also, with the erase head not connected, a normal cassette recorder is only able to record on a tape that's blank, otherwise you'll hear leftovers of the previous recording (though the bias in the recording circuitry would do some erasing too). That makes sense for an interview recorder: you wouldn't want anyone to make evidence disappear by recording over it. But then why is the erase head still there? They could have used one of those plastic fake erase heads that are also in walkmans (walkmen?). So I wonder: why is the erase head not connected? Was it modified because of some regulation that changed after the recorder was built, and said recorders should only be able to record on blank tapes, and not be able to erase old tapes? Is the playback head really in use for playback? Or did the erase head fail and someone reattached the wires for the erase head to the recording head and the recording signal wires to the playback head? The characteristics of a recording head are different from an erase head so it wouldn't work as well, but it might explain why both recording and playback head are in use though the recorder can't play tapes. Time for a YouTube comment debate! :-)
All sorts of things could have happened to this in the last 25+ years. I'd imagine the only people who would know the answers to these questions would be the people who made it. Perhaps we'll find out more when the video goes live - there's a reasonable chance that someone watching it will have more knowledge on this subject. I'm done with this one now though - it went off to storage on Wednesday.
This is really interesting, great job!
This link may give you some historical clues - they refer to ‘NEAL Ferrogrsph’. <a href="https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/neal-ferrograph?nc=1" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/neal-ferrograph?nc=1</a>
Final update on what happened to Ferrograph NEAL - here's the definitive potted history. In 1959 Ferrograph was absorbed by the Wilmot Breeden Group and it was decided to add to their hi-fi range with higher powered amplifiers, radio tuners and monitor loudspeakers. 1977 Falling sales resulted in heavy financial losses for the company. In order to safeguard jobs the National Enterprise Board arranged a marriage between Ferrograph and North East Audio Ltd (NEAL). Wilmot Breeden sold the Ferrograph company for £500k. NEAL took on the production of the whole product range except for the Ferrograph reelARA1 cathode ray tube response unit .(Thanks to Museum of Sound Recording).
From a distant memory - I saw these being made at the old Simonside Works in Jarrow in what was known locally as the ‘Ferrograph’ factory. (Of which, I still have 3). I was in my teens in the 60’s and wanted to aspire to one of these reel to reel behemoths so went on a pilgrimage. The factory had been rebranded NEAL and they were preparing to move to a more modern building (Simonside was eventually pulled down). I was told construction of the new Logic 7 reel recorder was being built at the new factory, along with the cassette machine you showed (sharing similar components / buttons etc). I’m hazarding a guess that NEAL and James Lee Electronics Ltd are one and the same - the latter having bought out Ferrograph Co following the failure of the Series 7 to sell in large quantities.
I looked Lee James up on Companies House before making the video but I just couldn't be 100% sure of the connection. It looked either like NEAL bought Lee James or they always had it as a separate company but it appears they let the name lapse in the 90s.
love that textured aluminum case!
Terrific,Mat... My guess as to the reason there's no rewind is that there would be less chance of tampering, or accusations of that. If the time stamp suddenly jumped or changed, imagine the repercussions.
Good heavens! The nerve of attempting to watch UK shows outside the UK? Some people... 😇
Did you try speaking into it vs using the youtube audio library? I am wondering if it might include an auto-pause function when there is silence. An interrogation make take longer than 30 minutes, and removing silence conserves space and increases recording capacity.
It doesn't auto pause - although if there is no audio received by the mic for a while it buzzes.
Never try and stop a pub fight in Norfolk and get a black eye.
I'll keep that in mind.
I actually have been on the receiving end of one of these (not long after joining tapeheads in 2010). I was a potential witness/suspect. Once each recorded tape was complete they were both taken out and sealed in front of a third party officer and myself and signed over the seal by all all present. I was given my copies for my potential defence and the other for the prosecution. When I finally got around to listening to the interview, the difference was it was a female voice with the correct time and not just the length of the interview.
Interesting - I suspect that was a slight upgrade to the model I have - I've seen pictures of a few variations online. Of course most of them weren't portable either.
Great video as always! I live near to Falmouth and have an office there. Always strange to see your local area referenced, though I have no idea who that company are or if they're still going.
Great video Mat, always wanted to know about these decks after seeing them on TV so many times over the years. I may not have one but do have a boundary Mic. Tandy used to sell a budget boundary mic that was great quality and had so many uses, worked well inside a piano for example. I used to spend so much of my pocket money in Tandy in the 1980s!
Yes that picture of the buzzer was from my Tandy catalogue too - I mistakenly said Maplin in the video, although it's been corrected in the updated version that's currently being processed by youtube and is due to replace the one above later this evening.
Really neat device. While It's annoying that it has no rewind or playback feature, I understand why they left them off. They wanted the device to be as simple as possible to use, which would eliminate most human error from the equation. The internal design is actually very nice because everything is designed to be serviceable. They certainly don't make things like that anymore. I had wondered what the EPROM and CPU was for inside of that thing. I was seriously stumped on that. But then when you revealed the electronic voice, it all made sense.
It was unusual to see every chip on the circuit board in a socket - I suspect that these were once very expensive machines.
Thanks Mat. I always wondered what was inside one of those machines. I never expected a time code as a voice. Now about that bank job alibi...... I'll take one of 'The Moans' hostage until you pay up! (It is a joke)
was it just me, or was the erase head not connected to anything ( on the left side anyway )
I'm not sure - it's all packed away though, so I can't find out.
Am I the only one who now wants to see a video on that tape rewinder…? (Maybe alongside other dedicated tape/hi-fi accessories?)
It is something I've been thinking about. I've got a little collection of things that would be suitable.
So there was a documentary about a now decommissioned aircraft carrier where they briefly showed the door of what might be the interrogation room where there might have been a recorder like this, and then you found the recorder from that room on eBay. I would be VERY skeptical about the claim that this particular recorder came from that ship. You even showed that the police used massive amounts of cassettes and now they switched to CD recorders. So there must be thousands of discarded recorders on the market. I wonder how many eBay listings there are for the Neal interrogation recorder from the HMS Ocean.
I don't think the chap selling it was placing it in high esteem - He didn't mention HMS Ocean in the title (just the description) and these recorders normally go for more than this one cost - however he is a store that sells military surplus - so he has to get it from somewhere, an old decommissioned ship is as good as anywhere. The screen grab of the door and the documentary were all my reverse homework after the fact - not mentioned in the sellers description. I had no idea when I started that HMS Ocean had been the flagship or had ever been on TV. I just thought it was a nice story that added a bit of background.
That slightly excited feeling when Mat buys an obscure product - and it’s not working! Great video. NEAL= North East Audio Ltd.
That fuse says T5A250V. That's 5A Slow-blow (the T is used to indicate slow-blow), not 7.5A.
Oh flipping heck. This video has turned into one massive cock up.
I always knew it was you on that bank job! - That alibi you had always seemed rather dodgy to me.
I just had to write that while your output is always informative, entertaining and of the highest quality, this one is of an especially high standard in my opinion. Incredibly well put together and professional. As ever, thanks for posting…
Your calculations are wrong on the batteries and current. The current does not add up with cells in series. One amp per battery, 8 cells in series, it's still one amp, just at 12 volts instead of 1.5 volts. If they were in parallel then you'd have 8 amps at 1.5 volts.
It must have come across differently in the video to how I intended to pass on this information as I set it to 12V at 8 amps.
Many thanks for the police interview flashback. Back in the early 1990's as a criminal investigator used the Sony TCM-80V auto-reverse recorded and a Sony BCM-R100 electret condenser microphone. They worked great; went through cases of cassettes over the years. Of recent, was able to pick up BCM-R100 mic but have not found a TCM-80V as yet... Think I will check eBay again - thank you. If you find them, they may make a good video. This was the Cadillac recorder combination "in the day."
Auto-reverse recording is a nice feature, often portable decks will auto-reverse play, but not record as it needs a second record head and it's simpler and cheaper to use a four track play head combined with a single record head on one side for one way recording only.
Great video, thank you! That little Anker bluetooth speaker is a nice bit of kit. I love mine.
It works well - my only issue with it is that I tend to leave it powered on by accident and when I next come to use it - it needs charging up first.
Fascinating - I love these videos. I feel kind of ashamed that it was your departure from Twitter that finally caused me to sign up to Patreon, but seeing things like this really brightens my day. Thanks for finding these wonderful old pieces of electronics!
I'm glad you've found your way here - it's a much more pleasant place to communicate.
That buzzer is probably one of the most motivating devices I've come across, I have one as a headlamp warning on one of my cars and I instantly remember to turn them off. I feel like this machine would fit well in a puppet sketch, they all look very guilty...
Half expected a muppet / police interview parody at the end!
Yes, but the head used for the actual recording looks like a head used in 3-head decks. It looks like a record/play head combo with the black erase head.
I've noticed that there are two record heads side-by-side in each deck. Why is that?
The black one is the erase head - you commonly get the erase head in the tape path before the record head - so the tape gets erased and then recorded on.
The bit about the romance was funny.
I sometimes wonder when you will run out of obscure devices to review... Always thrilled to see you unearth yet another odd take on something ubiquitous as a humble cassette.
I hope I never run out. I've got plenty of weird devices stockpiled.
Nice solid bit of kit and interesting to see what's inside one of those, Makes me wonder, though, if they don't re-use cassettes, why the erase head?
I presumed they didn't re-use them, maybe I was wrong. It seemed like the only way a force could get through 200,000 tapes in a year.
I really like your forensic examination of the machine, identifying then fixing the problems to get it working - good work. Interesting that the 'Transcriber' device you showed a picture of has differential volume sliders for left and right channels so that the spoken time code doesn't interfere with the recorded interview - which could be awkward if the interview is trying to establish the timings for a crime and/or alibi! As always, thank you, Mat!
I'm very fortunate it was a fuse that had blown - if it was something more serious I'd most likely have been stumped.
Ahh, a quirky old tape deck. These things just make me happy. Great video, cheers.
That was fascinating Mat. I worked for the Kent Police in the late 80s and came across these but never knew any of that! What a great find, with a bit of history thrown in. A well put together video. (By the way, if I don't get my share of the proceeds of that bank job soon, your alibi is toast!)
Unfortunately as far as the money goes, I spent it all on ebay. I watch the occasional real life crime show - e.g. '24 hrs in police custody' and I've seen that some of these tape machines are still in use - it no doubt depends on whether the force in question has the budget to upgrade to CD.
After watching plenty of English crime shows with those machines, I imagine the long beep is to tell you that no recording is currently possible, usually because the leader tape is on the heads. Once you reach the magnetic tape the beep stops.
Yes, that makes perfect sense - I think between all of us we could figure anything out.
Covering these obscure bits of electronics (especially with such an interesting history) are real gems for you to post. These are why I Patreon to you. Thanks for your work while preserving history.
Thank you - and I do it because of those little moments in projects like this where I get to learn something new and encounter the odd surprise.
The '4089' on the motor could be 40th week of 1989 maybe? That's usually how a four digit date code found on individual components can be read
That would fit in the timeframe.
Wonder what that audio chip that's doing the timestamping? That's really cool and a clever way of doing it.
It was a really fun thing to find. Playing back a tape I'd recorded when I was out of the room and hearing a faint voice on it was slightly spooky at first.