Finally - the Wheel 2
In this video I finally get to take a look at the Wheel 2 record player from Miniot.
https://youtu.be/pQfWRvsDu8I
This was the experience that put an end to me backing any more Kickstarter campaigns.
I’d initially thought that backing some of the more promising looking products would enable me to make videos about them when they arrived. Since all the main tech companies had moved into making either phones or nothing, it seems a good idea.
However after a number of experiences where the things either never turned up, or were irrelevant and poor quality when they did, I had to knock the idea on the head.
That said, Kickstarter now is nothing like it was back in 2017. It’s no longer small teams trying to fund a start-up and make something unique, it’s mostly just a store front for pre-ordering low-quality, ready-to-go products from established businesses based in China. It’s funny how I can even get nostalgic about the good-old bad-old days of Kickstarter.
Anyway this is the video I’ve been working on non-stop since the last one. I hope you like seeing the Wheel 2 - it’s far cheaper to watch a video demonstration than it is to buy one.
While you’re here, if you notice your name is missing from the credits and it should be shown, please let me know. I’ve just updated the credits and I’m pretty sure I’m not getting all the data from Patreon.
Take care and enjoy your week.
Update
The section where I mention the non replaceable cartridge, generated questions about replacing the stylus. Therefore I’ve gone back and added in a longer explanation of what can and can’t be swapped out. The updated video is now the one embedded and linked to above.
UPDATE 2 - Swapped around a scene to avoid a continuity error. The new version is the one linked to and embedded above.
Comments (69)
Looks very well-made, but also a bit "special"... I would guess the thing that would irritate me the most is that you cannot clean the side you're playing, a worn-in part of my record-playing ritual.
‘Don’t reinvent the wheel’ — unless you’re making the Wheel 2.
Matt, do you know if Miniot have managed to patent any of the technology?
I don’t know if there’s anything here that they could patent, but I also have no more info about this one, sorry.
I made a fatal error. I read the comments on YouTube. Pardon me while I restore my brain to a previous hour. 🤖
Yes me too - big mistake. I’m going to burn the iPad.
Love The Wheel - The wait would have tested anyone's patience! If you're able to add my name to the credits, that'd be great as I didn't see it: Bill Smartt. Thanks!
Thanks for letting me know. Apologies and I’ll add your name on the next one.
A rare case in which the sunk cost fallacy actually pays off. I think I heard the 7" record slipping a bit when you had it on the platter without the clamp, so it would be a good idea to use the clamp even when the player is horizontal. Did you also back the "LOVE World's First Intelligent Turntable" on Kickstarter in 2017? The updates were comical, as the creators clearly had no idea how to actually design and manufacture it, and they stopped entirely in 2022, so it's deader than a hammer.
I remember that one - I know I deliberately avoided it but my memory fails me as to why. It might be because I’d already put too much money into this one, or perhaps I realised it was nonsense. I don’t want to take credit for any foresight though because it might not be the truth.
I'll give my opinion, but don't take it the wrong way: It has a ton of functions all in one control, making it overwhelming to remember them all. It feels very lightweight and unstable when in vertical position, quite thin and not very sturdy overall. The super cheap head that reads the record in the air like the old Wurlitzer Jukeboxes personally makes me smile, but for a very specific reason: the sky-high price you have to pay to take it home. If it cost 200 euros, maybe even 400, then it would be a different story altogether. Luckily at least you got it, and you didn't pay the full price.
It’s ok I’m not taking it any way, I bought it to show in a video. Whether it’s good or bad the same number of people end up watching (hopefully). It would probably get more views though if it set on fire and ruined a priceless record.
awesome little thing, though you have to be comfortable sacrificing a bit of audio quality for the truly beautiful aesthetic. I know a lot of folks who’d make that trade-off in a heartbeat.
I pretty much only back games (video and board) on KS now, every time I have bought a physical item, it's either not showed up or been deficient in some way to what was promised. Of course, Matt's right, KS today is basically just a pre-order site for companies that are already ready to produce and want some capital for their tool up, but at least you know that you're getting the thing with that being the case. I really do like backing games on there, though. Most of the offerings in that sector are still small publishers, who are able to use KS funds to avoid having to become part of big publishers, like was intended. I've also been buying STL files from KS, which has been a difficult way for people who need to spend a lot of time designing something to make any money from their work. I've bought STLs for customizable display stands for miniatures and resizable storage crates, things that are complex and tricky to engineer, and paid a fairly low price for them.
Great turntable. Thanks for sharing.
Love the look and functionality of it but it seems a shame it has such a basic stylus.
Nice updates, well done. 👍🏻
Major early Bang & Olufsen vibes - I love it!
Good to see the return of a direct drive, track sensing turntable, I had a Technics back in the day and it was a brilliant piece of kit that made listening to records as easy as playing a compact disc, as opposed to the masochism of an audiophile turntable. This Miniot has the look of something that Bang and Olufsen might have made back in the day. It would slot nicely into the modern day Technics range too, the styling would complement the new Technics components.
For what it is, essentially a pretty decent turntable and also a very decorative one at that, it looks fantastic. For the price? I'll be looking elsewhere, I could buy a REALLY nice turntable for half that price, and it would be far more flexible and almost certainly have a user replaceable stylus in it too. I could probably find a professional turntable that would blow this thing's pants off for a quarter of the price on the second hand market too. A shame, because if it was a bit cheaper I'd buy it purely for how aesthetically pleasing it looks.
I only ever backed one kickstarter, the Gemini pocket computer/phone thing. I did get my item. There were subsequent products from Planet, but left many unhappy people waiting far too long for their item. So I probably won't do it again.
My first was the Pebble watch in 2012.
At 12:33 we see the turntable mounted vertically, before you attach the stand. For a time machine, it's definitely good value for money :)
Would it help if I tried to claim that this was an Easter egg rather than a continuity error.
I love the design and l love watching the record turn around while listening to the music. I was a CD guy (teenager) from 1983 on because of sound quality but I missed the big booklets, the bigger cover art and watching the record on the turntable. A CD player was always a black or silver box. Nowadays with streaming even a CD feels like a dream compared to streaming. Listening to streamed music became more like listening to elevator music. It has no value anymore. And this might also be the reason for the bad quality of a lot of new songs nowadays. People stop listening to a song after 5 seconds if the intro is too long. The problem with this device is that it's way too expensive as a show of product and not audiophile enough for the voodoo music community who pays 500€ for a cable. Hard sell but a great product in any other aspect.
I've been following their Kickstarter campaign since the beginning and although it has been a bumpy road for them I do admire their persistence to make and improve their product. While I was triggered by Matthew's video (glad to see you got yours now)I just had a look online. It seems that Saint Laurent even got their attention as on the SL website there is a collab Miniot turntable (with a price to match): https://tinyurl.com/mss5dz5u Very tempting but I think I stick with my Denon DP-47F which came to my attention after Mat did a video on it.
Have you tested it out on any warped, wobbly discs yet?
I haven't. I must have some somewhere - I seem to remember playing a couple in the past, but I never set up a 'warped section' in the rack, so now they're lost amongst the rest of the discs. I suppose I could put a record on a car parcel shelf in the sun for a while...but I'm in the UK, so the sun part of that might be a longer wait than the turntable was. Incidentally when has anyone ever put a parcel on the parcel shelf, or gloves in the glove box.
A 7 year wait? Blimey. Puts the 3.5 year wait for the ZX Spectrum Next Issue 2 into perspective.
My original Spectrum Next is still sitting sealed in its box. By the time it arrived I’d changed my focus.
In addition to everything that was already said - I don't understand the minimalist control interface: do people remember what all those long presses in different modes do? Do they consult the manual everytime they want to use the device? Or nobody ever uses those hidden functions? It frustrates me on every single bluetooth speaker, but I understand it would be expensive to include even the smallest of displays and/or couple buttons more there, but i'm so confused by it on a device with freaking 2000€ price tag.
I think the only obfuscated control I’d need to remember is the one to raise the stylus for cleaning…and that’s just pressing and holding the cog icon. But yes these things that rely on double and triple taps and long presses aren’t ideal.
I dont get it. I never understood any benefit of those linear tracking record players. They always looked like tat. Didn't Alan Sugar and Amstrad even make one? Enough said.
When master record is cut at a pressing plant it’s by a linear cutter.. and if you can imagine in your head with a traditional swing tonearm, at the outer edge of a record player tonearm and your record stylus runs perpendicular with the tracks, but by the time a record reaches the inner tracks of a record your tonearm and stylus is skewed a good ~30 degrees and the stylus isn’t running straight centered in the tracks but more to one side.. So a linear tracker keeps the needle straight and centered through the tracks from start to finish, and as a result, less issues or other compromises experienced when a needle isn’t straight.
I've felt that way for most electronics. The ludicrousy of Kickstarting a USB wall charger is just next level. That said, on the board game and TTRPG side I do still see innovation from small teams that actually deliver. I've given up on pretty much anything else, though.
I feel absolutely the same about Kickstarter. I have not backed anything since 2018. But the "10-Year Hoodies" i backed in 2013 are actually getting 10 years, this year :)
I'm 100% ignorant about the modern turntable market. What could a vinyl enthusiast get for $2000, if they were looking for a newly-manufactured conventional record player? I'm imagining that there are lots of dramatic price gaps in this market. I'm at the very bottom: I was willing to spend $100 for a decent used turntable to have a bit of fun, play the odd LP I pick up at yard sales and thrift stores, and complete my stack of 1990s Pioneer components. Then there's probably the level that actually value the sound, and wouldn't consider anything that costs less than several hundred dollars. And then the ones who think it's _adorable_ that the people with $900 turntables believe that they're getting anything that could be deemed "hi-fi" audio. To say nothing of the gear that includes options such as "Yacht Platform Isolation (have your man estimate your yacht's number of decks (plus or minus three) on line 17)" I do get the point of "The Wheel." It interesting, it's decorative, it looks cool even when it's doing nothing. And I'm relieved to see that the makers seemed to be aware that this should look and operate like a $2000 thing.
There are a number of turntables on the market that run well into four figures - and beyond. The costs seem to be driven, not by a high degree of automation - quite the opposite, but by the materials of construction, designed to minimize resonance, rumble and other unwanted noises finding their way into the amplification system. Whether the typical listener can hear and appreciate the benefits is up to them, but many people claim they can, so I guess they can spend their money as they see fit. There seems to be virtually no limit to how much one could spend on hi-fi equipment.
I will never buy $omething like thi$ ... BUT ... it's really neat! Your identification of the only two weaknesses makes me think that, if the vendor can afford it, the Wheel 3 will be a big hit. As you note, that interface seems really good. All the other stuff seems well thought out as well (i.e., the magnet for vertical use). And the ability to adapt to less-than-perfect physical media. Just a really nice device.
Very nice bit of kit. There was an older turntable you reviewed a few years ago that couldn't detect tracks on non-black vinyl. I wonder, particularly in the case of clear records, how this one manages it?
They do warn that some discs might trip up the identification - so it’s not perfect, but of course your can still play them as normal…just forget about accurate track skipping.
A thought - not a complaint.... The Wheel 3 gets a changeable cartridge. I'm trying to convince the "one who must be obeyed" it's a cat proof turntable.
I agree - there must be a reason why they went this route rather than adopting the Technics P-mount system that allows for slim carts.
In flat orientation, is the stylus pressure enough to lift the LP up from below? Some 140g or lighter LPs might be light enough so that at the edge the stylus pressure on track 1 would raise the LP slightly - thus reducing the effective stylus pressure? Perhaps the magnetic weight should be used in all orientations... At least it's trying something new!!
That’s not an issue I’ve heard of - it’s just 2.1g tracking force, It’s worth using the magnetic clamp all the time though as that way you wouldn’t lose it.
Mat I love that turntable! I'm glad they delivered. A great feature to mount it on the wall. The four cats won't get to it. They try to help. Now I have to convince "the one who must be obeyed" to let me get the credit card out. The E series cartridge on the Technics SL-Q33 is still great. Have a fun week.
That really is a very neat and compact design. Maybe you could try a 'jog' test to see if the stylus is less prone to jumping than a regular tone-arm would be if the player is knocked or a door slams nearby? It looks great, but as you say, for that kind of money, I would at least want the option to be able to change the cartridge and pre-amp at some point. Did you say how the turntable is spun - is there a belt, or is it direct drive, or an idler wheel or...? Thanks for a great video - I think you actually got something that was worth waiting for.
It seems just as prone to jump the stylus as any record player if you nudge it. Best to treat it like it cost £2000. As for the drive, yes it’s direct drive, I think they called it hub drive, it was mentioned in the upgrades over the Wheel 1 which was rim drive - I’m glad they upgraded this.
Great video, Mat - thanks. I'm definitely not buying one, though - I'm the same age as you (kinda) but I don't miss the vinyl days, philistine that I am.
are you sure the stylus can't be removed? while they may have used a custom cartridge, makes no sense for the stylus itself to not be removable? if it is, may be worth buying the one of the higher end replacement stylus Audio Technica offers in that range the included stylus is from: AT-VMN95ML (microline) or at least a AT-VMN95SH (shibata) and perform a bit of surgery.
That’s not possible unfortunately - it uses a modified stylus on a modified cart.
What a beautiful turntable. What happens when the needle reaches its lifespan?
You can buy a new styli (from Miniot) - perhaps I need to add on an extra overlay to explain this.
In terms of design, Miniot's Wheel 2 gives B&O a run tor their money (not to mention the ergonomics). I'm glad that the investment paid off for you in the end, despite the long wait. Impressive device, and very nicely presented.
Totally agree, the design is top notch, worthy of a top tier component.
I'm going to state the obvious, but this really does remind me of the Bang & Olufsen line of products from the 70s: incredibly well-engineered, simple to operate, not the best audiophile experience, but good enough... and expensive. My Dad loved collecting multiple systems. I would think this would appeal to the same sort of consumer. Not to be nosy, if you're not putting it down with you prime audio system, where would you think of using it? Also, you should think to trademark 22:10 the description of the Wheel 2, in case Miniot steals you perfect description of their product for marketing purposes. Great video.
Wow, that's amazing. I have spent way too much on crowdfunding over the years so somewhat surprised this one passed me by, but then it did take me over 35 years to replace / upgrade my original turntable! Just a shame it's so expensive.
A very cool turntable, but it's not for me since it's so expensive and I rarely listen to vinyl records anyway. It would look very nice in its vertical orientation in a cabinet with glass doors with the cords routed out of sight. Maybe we'll get to see it on semi-permanent display in future videos.
I wheelie enjoyed the video! How the tables have turned!
• This is certainly worth the 7 year wait - it's a beautiful machine. • I absolutely enjoy your incidental music at 14:02. • Great job with the various close-up/overhead camera shots and editing. • I hoped you would test the wow and flutter and you didn't disappoint. I am very impressed and surprised by those numbers. • Perhaps the linear tracking and speed regulation features and novelty makes up for the lack of customizability? I dunno... • I appreciate the chance to experience this record player vicariously through you. I will never be able to afford it or see it in person. • My name is not on the credits; I did switch from $1 to $5 a few weeks back but I didn't pay attention until you mentioned it. Off topic, but I happened to see this odd wall-mount Technics casseiver and thought of you: https://www.ebay.com/itm/355611897660 Have a great afternoon/evening; take care. 🤍🤍
Thanks for letting me know about the missing name, I’ll fix it next time. Funnily enough I’ve had my eye out for one of those Technics models for years, but they’re always knackered. I don’t think they were quality. I’d want one with the matching wall mount speakers too, otherwise it seems a bit pointless stuck up on a wall with the wires trailing down to a regular set of speakers.
It's weird that it's played from the back. To the point where Mat cleaned the front of the record in cleaning mode and then would have to flip it over to play it.
It certainly makes for a very compact design.
Great video! The non-standard stylus is annoying unless there’s extremely special sauce being added, in which case the price premium for new ones from the manufacturer better be very reasonable, given the cost of the unit but if they ever shut down it still leaves customers with an expensive useless device which is not acceptable. I share your frustration on what Kickstarter has become and indiegogo is even worse imho (I’ve backed a fair number of KS projects and they’ve always come through with something in the end, but 0 for 2 on IGG).
I think they’re manually cutting down the carts & styli to fit as no one was making a suitable cart/stylus.
Holy crap, that's gorgeous.
Great video, it's an awesome pice of tech. I love the wood as well, mixing old and new,
That's an impressive looking piece of tech. It's a shame the stylus is non-user replaceable and that the price is so high, but it seems the designers really thought about the interface and experience.
The stylus is user replaceable. It's the cartridge that isn't.