Paleolithic Secret Societies and How to Join One (Premium E332)
Travis and Jack are joined by Devin O’Shea to examine why even powerful billionaires like Peter Thiel and Jeffrey Epstein seek increasingly exclusive associations. Devin turns to the anthropological work The Power of Ritual in Prehistory: Secret Societies and Origins of Social Complexity by Brian Hayden to show how and why societies develop groups that declare themselves keepers of esoteric knowledge.
How is this related to why Universities can’t seem to prevent dangerous fraternity hazing rituals? If you don’t want to join Kappa Sigma to find out, you could listen to this episode instead.
The Veiled Prophet: Secret Societies, White Supremacy, and the Struggle for St. Louis
https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/2770-the-veiled-prophet
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QAA was known as the QAnon Anonymous podcast.
Comments (52)
"initiations... involved initiating an ecstatic state through fasting and sleep deprivation, drumming, chanting, and physically painful stress tests and emotional shocks... terrifying scenes of destruction" yo this sounds just like the average prayer night at my Pentecostal girl scouts summer camp lmao
Oceanside, CA! Thanks for the shout out, Travis!
A dream team episode!
I think Brad got the days wrong for his film debut in Toronto. Saturday is the 25th, not Friday.
This makes me wanting to re-read Masters of Atlantis by Charles Portis.
Who else up right now starvin they hawk?
I really need a hat to protect my newly shaved head. If only my favorite podcast had hats for sale
Y’all have been on a winning streak to me lately. Every episode with any combination of hosts has been a banger. A few episodes even spoke directly to wackiness I came across in own life recently. Good job 👍
I remember as a kid having a VHS tape of a couple of Flintstone episodes and one of them has Fred and Barney in a mason-style men's club called the water buffalos? Apparently that episode from 1962 and to my recollection you're not really meant to think there's anything sinister or shady about it? Just like a thing guys do? And it made me think about the stonecutters guild in The Simpsons (also clear reference to freemasons obviously) from '95 where you can sort of see the progression of it being considered as a weirder thing to be a part of but not THAT weird and versus NOW when you'd associate it with Epstein-lite AT BEST and Qanon pizza gate adrenochrome kaball at worst.
"We search high and low/ for Miss Water Buffalo..."
My dad's Kanienkehaka, and as a kid I was terrified and fascinated by the False Face Society. Spooky/ funny masks? Healing powers? If anyone likes learning about Indigenous secret societies, that one's worth a look!
Devin mentioning a bear spirit that reminded me of the “Demon Bear” Were Dani Moonstar’s parents in a secret society?
When you did the "As always we are your hosts..." I was driving alone as my job and said aloud "MY PERFECT PODCAST" Thanks guys, listened yesterday in the van and loved it. Going to check if Devin's book is available for pre-order in the UK right now.
It is. Hardcover ordered. Thanks team, huge fan. Please give Jack a Cursed Media Series please every aside they hint at is always a treat; fairies was a great ep especially as a Brit who grew up with this as a part of the Conan Doyle legacy, and i still say *Rougarou* in my best Cajun voice at least once a day.
Great guests and episode! The outro was 10/10.
Love Devin and Jack! I’m just here to complain about how Patreon changed the app so now it’s harder to pull up a podcast while driving!!
Agreed. Not happy with the various changes that Patreon have made to the app. As well as wiping my downloads.😒
Where is the episode on the knights of the golden circle?
> [The] Minute God crapped out the third caveman, a conspiracy was hatched against one of them
Oh dear. I've listened to every episode you guys have ever put out and this is the only that i have a serious problem with. The hosts do point out some of the problems with Hayden's book but unfortunately the lack of anyone present who really understands this stuff means that his conclusions are largely accepted at face value. And they are problematic not just in the sense of being incorrect, but they're downright racist - as so much of western anthropological work has been. I've studied shamanism for over 10 years and have visited the Hopi, twice being invited to attend their dances (from the back) which are normally closed to outsiders. The way native secret societies are portrayed in this episode is as if they are a parasite on their society, preying on their citizens for personal enrichment. This is not only incorrect, but straight up slanderous. In reality the role of these societies - and shamans generally - is to SERVE THE PEOPLE by carrying forward vital teaching stories central to their cultures, and helping the people survive by tending the relationship with the spirits of the land and the forces of nature that is necessary for the material survival of the entire culture. It's also insane to portray these societies as grifts thar create and maintain a ruling class, because that shows a complete lack of understanding how native economies even functioned. These cultures were EGALITARIAN, and this framing of secret societies presumes a hierarchical stratification of society. Wealth hoarding was simply not a thing in the way we know it. Many if not most of these societies were gift economies where a person gained status by GIVING AWAY wealth (such as the potlatches of the coast Salish peoples), while hoarding resources would LOWER one's status within the tribe. Projecting the issues of modern society onto indigenous cultures by viewing them though the lens of the dominant culture is not only cultural erasure, but massively advances the colonial project by causing people to believe precisely what Travis concluded at the end: that the toxic aspects of our culture are problems of HUMANITY rather than our particular culture and worldview. This normalizes this toxicity and impedes the work of dismantling the toxic aspects of our modern worldview that is precisely what is necessary for humanity to have a future. Needless to say this episode really bummed me out. And just for the record this has been (and continues to be) my #1 favorite podcast ever since i first starting listening years ago.
First ever comment, mostly to keep Hegseth from getting credit for... well anything. I won't argue the tribalism inherent in the phrase (quite the opposite) but servicemembers have been getting called warfighters for as long as I can recall and I joined in 2002 (retired in December 2024). Just him making it a little more public and trying to normalize that as a class within a class.
The first thing that popped into my head when I read Sippy Cup, was the DRINK ME scene in Rugrats...
I just came here to say how much I love that Jack is showing up in even more episodes! Similar to a Brad episode in a way, I just know a Jack episode is gonna have some kind of unexpected paranormal twist, and the ride to getting there is always a fun adventure.
Secret societies do seem to be predominantly men larping in a treehouse. I can’t help feeling that a smidge of arrested development may be a contributing factor.
53:40, in reference to Mario Gras secret societies: Jack discusses “scrim.” They said it was referenced earlier, but I must have missed it. What is scrim?
I think they were referring to a conversation they had before they started recording. My Google-Fu tells me that Scrim is the name of a runaway dog that seemed to have amused all of New Orleans. So much so that he was a popular costume for Mardi Gras and the theme of more than one float.
Can’t wait for the book!!
Finally my anthropology degree comes in handy
Your anthropology degree is always useful - it’s others who don’t see the value.
Just over here leading the comfortable life at the expense of the credulous.
Midewiwin is pronounced “mid-eh-win”
I really enjoyed this episode.
Great episode and fascinating subject, but I mostly wanted to comment because I've been seeing a proliferation of people in these comments sections whining about how they don't like a host or a guest, or that the show has changed over the course of eight years and didn't stay within the exact same format that they initially liked, or some other gripe, and I just wanted to offer my two cents and say that the evolution of the show has been awesome and I've really come to appreciate and enjoy what each of the expanding cast of characters brings to the table ( I'm especially enjoying the addition of Jack; their dry sense of humor is great, and I could pour that accent over pancakes!). It keeps things fresh, frees up the core cast of hosts to work on other miniseries, and always brings an interesting new dynamic as we get to hear different configurations of people talk to each other and discuss topics. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and if they first started listening because they were specifically interested in QAnon, I can understand being less interested as the scope of the show has broadened (I'm not sure what the show would even look like now if it exclusively covered QAnon; these days you can just get that from... the news), but for me, it's broadened into other areas which I find equally fascinating, and if there are occasional guests whose voices or contributions I find annoying or lackluster, I'm more than happy to just skip an episode here and there and feel good about subscribing to the Patreon and still getting an amazingly high hit rate of awesome episodes. Great work, keep it up, and I'll be excited to come along for the ride.
Are the comments only here to say “we loved this”? Or is it be a place where (hopefully) creators receive feedback from their paying audience? Kinda feels like me saying that this trio sucks is just as valid as you saying the opposite and both statements are equally affronting to each of us. I am personally going through a rocky patch in my relationship with this once much beloved show. The first four years of the show were some of my favorite audio of all time but it’s been precipitous since the roll out of the Cursed Media bilk. Like all of us in these comments, I’m still here doing my part. Jealous of all you who are weathering the new format still in love.
may the dread portal be ever in your favor
Looks inside: no Jake or Julian :(
Devin O’Shea is one of my favorite guests. He always brings amazing stories to the show. More of him please!
As someone initiated into Anthropology’s own ‘secret society’ by virtue of ethnographic fieldwork (mahouting with humans and elephants in Nepal), it’s so great to listen to an explicitly anthropological discussion! Extending the temporal and geographic range of consideration is such a great way to develop a deeper analysis.
Are the boys just bored of this podcast and consistently farming it out to other people now? It's gone from having a fun guest host every once in a while to a constant rotating cast of people I have no interest in listening to.
Each episode is always anchored by Jake, Julian or Travis. I think the guys just recognise that they have amazing regular guests that bring some very cool vibes to the podcast.
will note that the earliest attempt to build a mass union of the working class Stateside (can't speak to the European experience), the Knights of Labor, took masonic initiation and oath swearing as a basis for their organization. likewise I might mention one of my favorite episodes of Irish American history: the Molly Maguires, who enacted terror against the coal barons of Eastern PA Anthracite Country. as a former member of the Teamsters, I think I would have appreciated my membership more had there been a ritualistic initiation into the secrets of package delivery and logistics. Great episode, love every Devin appearance and look forward to his book
My husband was a high ranking freemason. He passed away recently and Im like but what do I do with all these secrets lol
Good job boys
Jake loves u
Your hosts nope nope and nope.
It's not a good thing when Travis is the most exciting voice on the pod
Went to a little quaker school that had a huge Odd Fellows home sign over it. Didn't know for years what that was about, cool ass old buildings though.
O'Sheah!
Dawn of Everything mentioned 👀
Oceanside mentioned!
Devin is always excellent.
Great timing, fam. Was just picking something to listen to while cooking dinner.