Premium Episode 237: eXistenZ Movie Night

I really like this film and I think it's mainly about rendering textures, especially goopy ones, and free will. The stumbling around not really knowing what you're doing and returning to locations feels like an adventure game to me and I can imagine the Realists being reflected in fears of AI now. The Thirteenth Floor completes the trilogy of 1999 simulation films for me.

Hearing Jake try to pronounce köszönöm is hilarious

1:20:11 - the way I remember the Ending is the "are we still in the game" scene being ended by the couple shortly looking at each other / freezing, then shooting the guy and then it's over. The reason I think that's important is that I have been arguing with myself for years that this is either a sign that we're still in the game after all. On last rewatch, it's more like a "let's put the poor fucker out of his misery" like glance that's exchanged. No Idea whether there are different cuts of this, but knowing Cronenberg...

Thanks so much for this- I’ve been a fan of EXistenZ for years, so it was great to listen to you discuss its gonzo character and tease out its prescient relevance to today’s LARP-style world of confused realities.

Existenz and Inception are more about films and filmmaking and stories then they are about video games and dreams.

I got obsessed with pre 9/11 late 90’s sci fi, and existenz was one of my favorites. I also recommend Strange Days from the same era. You can skip Johnny Pneumonic and Gataca , though. Big stinkers.

Thanks for one of my favorite episodes. I do think the abrupt plot twists which make your (and characters') head spin is a deliberate plot device to make the game world even more disorientating and unreal. I never really thought you were supposed to necessarily keep up.

They make you shoot civilians in "No Russian" as far as I remember. The first time I played it I tried to shoot all around the victims to make it look like I was taking part, and I'm pretty sure it resulted in a fail. (I looked it up, you don't need to shoot anyone. I must have shot a terrorist by accident)

I am currently discussing this with a friend because listening to the synopsis I know I’ve seen this before and he is the only friend I would’ve watched this with.

Travis: "The one thing that struck me was the way it sort of alternated between the grotesque and eroticism." Cronenberg in a nutshell! You guys should do Crimes of the Future next. If only because I'd love to foist that madness on you all as well.

I remember being recommended this in high school because it was like Inception, but I think there was an observation going around on the internet that Inception was more like a video game and ExistenZ was more like a dream; Inception action sequences play out like Modern Warfare 2 levels while ExistenZ has this weird, trippy body horror aesthetic

Please do Brian Yuznas 1989 film "Society" for movie night, it is the closest thing I've ever seen to Qanon beliefs being directly represented in a movie, it's not a good film but it is a completely melted conspiracy brain shitshow lol

I saw this one before I saw The Matrix. Weird movie to watch as a high schooler. Didn't know who Cronenberg was until years later, even though I also stumbled across the movie Crash on HBO while also of high school age. So, I'm totally normal and stuff.

Great to see Jake cover an absolute fav. Was almost waiting for it, such fodder. I’m sure someone mentioned it but Jake dude extraordinary gentlemen is an Alan Moore comic. Even ppl that don’t read comics and just watch movies know who he is.

Did Jake say “Oowen McGregor?!”

I am so excited to listen to this I am literally getting a gristle gun tattoo next month lol

liv agar

Jake, as a teen I thought League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen was the greatest film ever made

I liked Existenz more than the matrix. My friends clowned me for this take, but those dogshit matrix sequels have only strengthened my position 😎

'Oowan MacGreor' 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Do you think the fleshiness of the game pod in the game itself vs outside the simulation is a commentary on the intimacy of the physical relationship between gaming realities and our brains?

Also, in agreement with what Travis was saying about the lack of a normative claim about living in the simulation, I think this movie pairs well with The Reality of the Mass Media by Niklas Luhmann, more than it does with Simulacra and Simulacrum. If you look at games as a form of mass media, Luhmann's view of the form and function of mass media is a lot more appropriate than a Gnostic reality created by a evil demiurge to fool the subject - like the Matrix

Love this movie so much! Also, you can choose to not play "No Russian" at all. There's a prompt that says "this is kinda fucked up - do you want to skip it?". I'm not sure if it pops up right before the mission or when the campaign starts, sort of as a psychic difficulty setting lol. But just like D.A.R.E presentations, the warning made the object even more curious so I wonder if anyone chose to skip it

I was also story teller number four! It was my first and last speaking part in a musical.

If you want to watch a weird quasi pilled sex thriller from the 90s check out Exotica directed by Atom Egoyan

Canadian Film School Drop Out reporting to say that though Cronenburg is considered one of the most interesting creatives to come out of the "great" White North, his weird sex politics are pretty par for the course in Canadian Cinema. There's a great book called 'Weird Sex and Snowshoes & Other Canadian Film Phenomenon' by Katherine Monk that I highly suggest.

Ah so Jake is the person who liked League of Extrodinary Gentlemen

Lol, Mr "Jedi" over here, just lighting up fleeing, screaming civilians in no Russian. "Oh, I always take the good path!"

Thing bout Cronenberg is his style is uniquely often focused on interweaving body horror with fractured sexual themes, unsettling and unforgettable each n their own way. Most surprisingly though is how interesting his son Brandon's movies are - in a rare case of nepotism turning out quality for once- -- Possessor is brilliant, yet bleak, about a mind control assassin who's sense of identity is being lost the more ppl's minds they possess for hits, has a great Sean Bean role as well as distinct use of cerebral imagery. -- There's also Anti-Viral, a movie about a corpo selling diseases from celebrities to obsessed fans who want to feel closer to them. --- finally latest of his was Infinity Pool with Mia Goth and Alexander Skarsgård as a nightmarish metaphor for cynical fake celebrity public apologies, but others' mileage may vary.

ExistenZ was one of the first movies I bought on DVD! (Have we done Videodrome before...?)

I love Cronenberg movies, but this was one of the only ones I hadn’t gotten around to watching yet. Seeing it pop up as a movie night I decided to watch it tonight before listening. Classic Cronenberg. His movies invoke a feeling no other movies do.

BTW, there is a kickass novelization of this movie, penned by Christopher "The Prestige" Priest, who was a very under-appreciated science fiction writer who recently died. I don't think the eXistenZ novel ever got officially published as an ebook but I found it at a used paperback joint a few years back and do recommend it most highly.

Thank you for inspiring me to rewatch eXistenZ - it’s a great movie and I would be interested to know what you think of the ambiguous ending, particularly the last line of the film. Another nod to the Simulacra perhaps - the idea that there’s no ‘reality’ to go back to.

Oh boy, this was a delightful surprise. To date I have ruined three relationships by sharing this film. And fell in love once with someone who simply screamed WHAT THE FUUUUUCK over and over for about 20 minutes after the film ended. Back in the VHS days. On the most pathetic level of reality.

So glad that I paused the podcast to go watch this movie!

eXistenZ is so much better than “The Matrix” that it’s not even Baudrillardian.

This is seriously one of my favorite films ever

Outriders Legendary weapon “The Migraine” first thing that popped in my head when the bone gun was described, then I googled the gun from the film, not too far off. 🤓

Travis with the original fallout references, jake with kotor, respect

ExistenZ is a MASTERPIECE of a film. FYI, bullet-time is purely a John Woo invention. A Better Tomorrow, Hard Boiled and Faceoff… all had bullet time.

2) 19 year old film geek me saw this in theaters because Cronenberg is amazing. I like to consider this part of the trilogy of turn of the Millenium “what is real” movies. You got The Matrix, this and Dark City. I feel like someone in the geeky parts of the movie and comic industry must have been passing around a copy of Simulacra and Simulation to a lot of writers and directors around 1995

Okay so a few things. 1) League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is a bad movie. Sorry Jake. It is based on a comic that started good but went to shit as Alan Moore lost his mind

Fun Fact: the official music video for the song of our generation, All Star by Smash Mouth, is a tie in with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen instead of, you know, Shrek

Hope Julian's doing okay

I love that Jake describes League as a "classic Connery film" when it's basically the reason he retired because it was so bad.

I'd love to hear Jake's take on Gerald Butler's 2009 box office bomb "Gamer" which is about using death row inmates as characters in a video game as a take on commercialized violence that I love.

Max Payne! I have beaten that game… Dark, drug filled but great game play really. Bullet time was a interesting concept.

Interesting analysis, and now I know y'all are squeamish about body horror. I bet Julian would've been into it - "Hell yes, les goooooo!"

I’ve loved this movie since my dad showed it to me when I was probably too young. So fun to hear the gang talk through the dreamlike haze and get Jake, Liv, and Travis’s Takes on how it all fits together.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is another classic Alan Moore comic that's been butchered, you should read the originals! They're actually good! Oh also re guns in Cronenberg films, he's states that hes terrified of firearms and sees them as reality destroying objects. He almost always depicts them as monstrous and strange, it's almost more of a tell then the general body horror he's famous for.

In the past I had always come to the conclusion that the final world was 100% the 'real' 'top level' world', and the "are we still in the game" comment was basically an instant justification for the preceding murder and their cause - the game is actually breaking peoples brains.

Definitely gonna rewatch this now after loving the film in the past but not watching in maybe 15+ years. It will be interesting to see what conclusion I come to.

One of my favorite movies! Please do Videodrome next!

My understanding is that Sean Connery was supposed to be in the Matrix as Morpheus but choose instead to be in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. What would have been.

Hell yea

I think it does a better job than inception. Basically anyone who goes into the game becomes cobes wife, and are never able to tell which level of reality they are on. So they become very dangerous to anyone who has not ever played the game.

Jake I'm disappointed. You should know the league of extraordinary gentlemen is why Sean connery quit acting. And not knowing Christopher Eccelston for being the first Doctor (Ninth overall) in the new Doctor Who! Disappointed.

I remember picking this up when it was available at Videodrome in ATL. So excited for this 🤗

This sounds awful, I’m gonna get it

Haven't listened yet, but reading the description, if you think ExistenZ describes our relationship with the Internet, you've got to take another look at Videodrome! Cronenberg might as well have been talking about Youtube 30 years before it even existed! He is a legend.

Learning that Cronenberg is a fan of PKD makes Existenz make a lot more sense. Yeah, I don't think you're really meant to find your footing in this film and the realists are probably some vague oppositional force invented by the game to give it a designed paranoid vibe.

Love how weird parts of this move gets. Pretty sure I first learnt of it from a trailer on a rental tape of The Thirteenth Floor. And now I feel old. Seems like that computer stimulated reality theme was a real thing back then. I'd never noticed the reference to The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch Jake pointed out. There's a lot of comparisons to that book. Replace a game console with drugs and a doll house to escape an awful/dull reality. There's even the competing product plot. eXistenZ is definitely more interesting and adventurous than The Thirteenth Floor.

I would like to point out that eXistenZ was based on a book by British Science Fiction writer Christopher Priest in 1999. He also wrote The Prestige which the Nolan film was based on. He is a very underrated in my opinion

Early on Liv makes the point that games as a medium don't invite people to kill others in the same way that others have. I really have to disagree with that, just looking at the amount of death threats routinely sent at developers, especially those perceived as enemies of capital G Gamers

Christopher Eccleston = The 9th Doctor.

17 minutes and 20 seconds of mostly “this is not that”. Not a criticism per we but when Jake started talking about the camera tech used for the Matrix (not the film under discussion) I did feel like reaching through my headphones to get him to focus

I love this movie, saw it in the cinema, bought the DVD, had a poster on my wall for years. I enjoyed The Matrix a lot but eXistenZ was special. I will say both these movies existed in a context of late 90s sci-fi with Dark City in 98 and Ghost in the Shell in 95 but also lots of books and comics and TV in a similar vein. Jeff Noon’s Vurt was a big deal to me. One aspect of eXistenZ you touched on but didn’t flesh out was the hints of a societal collapse or breakdown. They are meeting in a church because they don’t have fancy offices, an abandoned ski chalet will fill in for a factory because no one skis anymore, there aren’t other cars on the road, they don’t go to any cities. I think the implication is people are gaming or living virtual lives to the detriment of everything else which fills in a motivation for the realists. One way to think about the game is like a drug, both a psychedelic and an opioid, and we can think of small towns being hollowed out by fentanyl or meth and the world Ted and Allegra are driving through.

Doing a whole ass episode about dick pills?

Woof even through the filter of QAA the unsettling nature of this film still trickles through.

I can't be the bad guy in games where you choose.

Jake calling League of Extraordinary Gentlemen classic is a bridge too far for me

nice “put on the headset” intermezzo between binge viewings of 3 Body Problem!

I can't believe I've never heard of this movie. I've loved Cronenberg since seeing a midnight showing of "Naked Lunch" at 16 or 17 in 1994.

Yay Liv on a movie that isn't a piece of shit but hope Julien is alright.

Do Color Out Of Space next!

Lol I was one of those who saw it in the theater. Twice actually!

Yes! I recently made my husband watch this movie! I love it!!

yoooo LOVE that movie! absolutely bizarre and honestly disgusting at times lol

FUCK YES!

Love Cronenberg

Omg omg omg omg

How long have hoped for this film to become a QAA episode, it's now done...life is complete. Will be walking back in to the sea tomorrow morning.

QAA/Cronenberg mash up is truly elite

Hell yeah this movie rocks

Hell fucking yeah bro

please make Travis sit through the league of extraordinary gentlemen

Movie Night suggestion: The Number 23 plz

I get the patreon notif, I look at the show notes, I see a link to the Wikipedia entry for the Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, I am immediately sold on whatever this episode is

🍿 I lurv movie nights 🎥

this movie weirded me out. I have never re-watched it.

This film fucking rules!!

HELL YEAH I love this movie so much, so psyched to hear y’all’s thoughts on it!