#169: A Junk Withdrawal Picture Show
Here's what it's like to quit opiates. (I think. I was quitting opiates at the time.)
Comments (31)
7 days in today and listening again at 7am, thank you for all you do Michael
P.S. If you can avoid OD'ing, the kick is also going to be a lot shorter and easier. I suspect mine wouldn't have been nearly as bad if I hadn't spent 3 days trying to kill myself with an OD. Every time you don't use again, that's another chunk of days you don't have to spend in hell.
Hey Michael I just saw your replies. For real, thank you. Luckily I never OD’d despite smoking ungodly amounts of fent for 17+ months. Im staying with my mother and brother which is probably the most helpful thing that you mentioned. I gave my brother the rest of my junk but I’m really determined not to ask for any. I tapered pretty decently but only within a month, the same as you. I did stock up on all the OTC stuff that you mentioned including stomach meds, loperamide, valerian, magnesium glycenate etc. I’m on day two right now and definitely running to the bathroom more often than I ever thought naturally possible. I gotta say, kratom is helping me immensely. I wonder if you wouldn’t have had such a terrible experience if you had taken some sooner. So far it seems to be the reason I’m able to eat, drink or have a coherent thought. I’ve had kratom habits in the past so I knew where to go to avoid shitty gas station stuff. I don’t reallly have a doctor or health insurance (thanks Medicaid) otherwise I would have tried to get some clonidine and gabapentin—in the absence of the latter my brother had some phenibut laying around which acts similarly and has also helped a lot for sleeping. I’m definitely feeling more confident than ever that I can ride it out. Tomorrow and the next day should be the worst as far as physical symptoms. PS I’m binging all your shows I missed in the last few months of being too hardcore of a junky to pay attention to anything. Death is just around the corner has always been the show that kept me from killing myself more than any other. Can I message you on Twitter if I need to talk more ?
I’m about to start withdrawals this weekend off a pretty nasty fentanyl habit. I have 9 days off work. Probably won’t be enough but we’ll see I guess. This episode scared the fuck out of me but it really helps to hear it from you man. Love you and I’m really proud
Oh man, I'll be thinking of you. In retrospect, I think the most important things to try (if possible) are to stay in touch with someone regularly, keep your eating & sleeping as normal as you can, and drink a lot of water, especially in the inevitable "shitting the entire Old Testament" phase. If you can, have stuff on hand like Pepto Bismol, loperamide, Benadryl to help with sleep, things like melatonin/valerian/magnesium glycinate to keep your brain clock at least semi-normal. If you have a regular doctor, or anybody who ever writes you prescriptions, I'd encourage you to ask about clonidine (anybody can prescribe it, psychiatrist or whatever, even drugstore pharmacists in some states). I can't remember if I talked about it in this show; it's a blood-pressure medicine that a lot of kicking junkies take to reduce the extreme tension, tachycardia, and physical restlessness of kicking. It's never done that much for me, but I know people who tried to quit many, many times, though they couldn't, and then did it with clonidine. And I know you hear it everywhere, but #1 of all: if, for some reason, it's not possible to quit entirely right now, PLEASE don't go back to whatever dose you're currently taking. That's by far the most common way to die of an overdose. Hopefully that won't be relevant at all – if you still have any junk, I'd encourage you to give it to someone you trust, because you're going to be insane – but please don't think you can have a "halfway there" dose and swallow/sniff/smoke/shoot the usual amount. God (whatever that means) bless you & keep you in all of yr ways
Happy holidays, Michael! I've been catching up on podcasts over the last few weeks and I just listened to this one. Congratulations on defeating junk and thank you so much for sharing your story. I know neither part was easy. You and D/C have been positives forces in my life for a few years now. I'm thankful for having discovered you via TrueAnon. Your work offers a cathartic and educational kinship of sorts that has kept me going through sad and confusing times. I look forward to seeing what share with us in 2023 and beyond. Nic
Love you Mike. I know you mentioned Buproprion "welbutrin" as being another addiction, but it's just an amti depressant that is very good at fighting MDD. It's changed my life.
godamit i stopped subscribing to this pod months ago cause i had a hunch he was strung out. I missed the show tho and i come back to this ep
Much love Mike I’m really glad you’re still here too man
In case anyone is looking for the ending song, it's "Empire State of Mind" by Gold & Youth
Really beautiful im glad you're thru the worst of it and still here♡ What song did ypu end with?
It's "Empire State of Mind" by Gold & Youth
So glad you made it to the other side and are still here with us. Thank you for such an honest and humane account of the unimaginable.
Now you’ve got me wondering what my final-form speaking voice would be like. I’m usually sounding kinda similar to vintage Death Corner.
You sound like yourself again.
The photographic term you’re looking for is “dolly zoom”. The subject generally stays in the same place, the camera moves back on dolly track, as the lens zooms in (or vice versa). You’re attempting to keep the subject the same size relative to the frame, but the background has a huge change. It goes from tight to wide so more detail is revealed (or, again, vice versa). Goodfellas has a great dolly zoom that’s so slow you might not notice it, but it puts your senses off axis. It’s when Henry finds out Jimmy wants to kill him while they eat in the diner.
I would absolutely watch Chopped but with teams of industrial chemists trying to synthesize recreational drugs out of a basket of ingredients
As someone who has never taken opiates these are the only pieces of media that have really conveyed the suffering of addiction and withdrawal. I have to assume that's not its intended purpose, but as a literal voice I've been listening to for years it has much more impact. If only as a means of empathizing with my fellow man, thanks for recording these.
Mike, congratulations on getting clean! I've been struggling with opiate addiction on and off for over half of my life at this point and still am in recovery mode which I realize I probably will be in for the rest of my life and it is not easy but so worth it. You've done good and I'm proud of you!
Sweaty Missourian solidarity
That was beautiful, man. Thank you for doing this, and I know it's going to help a lot of people.
thank you, Doc – I hope so
Perfect song for a perfect presentation, great job MJ. This is the best thing I’ve heard in a long time, glad you’re still with us. ❤️
Love the switch up of the opening music, taking some cues from TAFS I see.
I'm curious what Mike's kratom dosage is. My wife and I have been using that stuff regularly, for years, and it's remedied totally different issues between the two of us. It also kind of sucks to withdraw from, but i'd rank it at "mild discomfort" considering what I just listened to. We weigh ours out, nearly always into 4 gram doses for me, and 2 grams for her - with hot water and honey
On Michaels point about the lack of attention? Sympathy? Coverage? Care? Of the drug overdose epidemic: "This ain't rock and roll. This is genocide."
oh I'm gonna talk ALL about that
Can't tell you how thrilling it is to hear your voice like this, you sound night and day compared to months ago, all your best to you
Curious what Mike and others have to say about Kratom
Made this comment before listening to the end. Still I think there is a lot to discuss. I personally don't have much drug experience but was a habitual Kratom user for a few months and it was making me very emotionally volatile. Took me some time to pin point that vs all the stress in my life. But I got really distressed when I couldn't stay asleep and woke up extremely anxious. Withdrawal was pretty unpleasant for about a week. Kratom in itself is definitely not good for you. Vs being clean off it it is definitely not good. Opiate recovery sounds insane so using Kratom to ease it definitely does sound like it gets you to a better place
I know exactly what you mean with sleep deprivation and the "dolly/vertigo shot" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbeXzJDYxS0). Feeling like you're interacting with reality from somewhere far inside your head