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November 25, 2025

#262: It's Epstein's World (And We're Just Dying In It)

His dream is now made flesh: there were already a million clones of Jeffrey Epstein.

Comments (62)

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Brooke · December 12, 2025

from epstein’s emails to joyce in a graceful flourish…..bro’s brain belongs in the Louvre

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Daniel McVeigh · December 5, 2025

I’m absolutely howling, can’t stop laughing, “if you got through with your sanity”… well I guess not, thought it was just laughter but I guess not being able to stop is a problem

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Karl Childers · December 3, 2025

Norman Finkelstein emailed me to say that Noam Chomsky is cool actually and that he talked to everyone and that his letter to Epstein is probably fake. I had forgotten that I'd signed up for Finkelstein's mailing list, to my recollection this is the only email I've ever received from him.

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Michael S. Judge · December 3, 2025

I don't even particularly think Chomsky was involved in the, as Nick Mullen would say, molestacio – he could've been, I don't know, and he doesn't really deserve the benefit of the doubt – but for NOAM CHOMSKY, the public figure Noam Chomsky is supposed to be, it's almost worse if he spent years kissing the ass of the 87 IQ pedophile because he RESPECTED him so goddamn much

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Gooch Immane · December 3, 2025

who is this "Freak-U Nessie" tho

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Michael S. Judge · December 3, 2025

the biggest ho that Scotland's got, and by christ you are not prepared to her have throw it back

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Jaime Christley · December 2, 2025

mobject

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Nic Bodiford · December 2, 2025

The Scott Walker beat reminds me of an original composition by that late musician who made the Sicario soundtrack. Will try to find the exact track.

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S · December 1, 2025

Any possibility the emails are purposely insipid? Or is that giving them too much credit

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Kawaii Leonard · December 1, 2025

The “Requiem for a tower” Youtube music and Snake Pliskin voice over the Jeffrey nonsense is perfect. You had to be there re: that “song”

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Shiv · December 1, 2025

TUNCH

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Shiv · December 1, 2025

I love an understandably rare MSJ gigglesode! See y’all down at the Cocksucker’s Ball

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Baily McDaniel · December 1, 2025

My whole ethos is to always try to understand the worst possible outcomes. It's kept me fairly safe & only given me slightly above average anxiety

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Baily McDaniel · December 1, 2025

This episode has me feeling very mobjectified🤮

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Michael S. Judge · December 1, 2025

There are mobjects, there are mitems, there are mideas, there are mypotheses, there are mubjects, and there are mudflaps, and woe betide what nations shall conflate them

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Shunning Ground · November 30, 2025

All I can think of for "prosgy" is prosody but fucking hell, what's with all the FFT? Fast fourier transform? I feel like I'm dreaming

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Michael S. Judge · December 1, 2025

I think it must be that somebody showed him a Fourier transform before he allegedly dropped acid with Deepak Chopra, and he spent 72 hours thinking he could see reality as vibrations. Which raises two primarily questions: #1, what kind of vibrations are we seeing for "child molester," and #2, can you imagine what it would be like to do some "spiritual retreat" bullshit and realize, too late to withdraw, that you're about to DROP ACID WITH JEFFREY EPSTEIN

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ggmacd · November 29, 2025

for a night out in tel aviv, start with the tasting menu at local favorite FoodKiss, dance until the dawn at the hot new nightclub TUNCH, and then in the morning get your humours balanced at the famous naturopathy clinic Bilology

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Gooch Immane · December 3, 2025

Give em time, they may yet build it on top of Gaza

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keyboard warrior supreme · November 27, 2025

Michael really is the type of guy to grab the AUX and put on songs of a guy punching beef and go "aaw yeah, this REAL music, baby!"

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Michael S. Judge · November 28, 2025

buddy, you bring the side of beef to the studio, you're not leaving till you throw some punches

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James Bradley · November 27, 2025

That was a excellent ep big Mike

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Kamran Husain · November 26, 2025

link for the cocksuckers ball song i need to play this at work

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Gooch Immane · November 27, 2025

https://www.discogs.com/release/10444338-The-Clovers-The-Orioles-Cocksuckers-Ball-Its-Too-Soon-To-Know

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Trout Mask Original · November 26, 2025

This seems an insipid bit of nostalgia given where this episode went, but here goes anyway. I'm (just) old enough to have owned golden-age bootleg LPs and even bought a couple from the hidden bin of my favorite record store that you had to have learned was there by word of mouth. They were invariably in plain white sleeves bearing rubber stamped titles hinting at the contents in more and less oblique terms. One was a hand-me-down of the then-ubiquitous Dylan bootleg, "G.W.W. JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY BLUES", which was great but so common it could scarcely be called a bootleg. It had a plain white center label. Another was a recording of the Stones at Altamont, titled "LIVEr THAN YOU'LL EVER BE", which sounded terrible but was historic. It had a gag red center label purporting to be from "Lurch Records", with the artist being "The Greatest Band on Earth" and no tracklist (natch). The third was a hell of a thing, a Beatles bootleg consisting of material from the Let It Be sessions plus the 1967 Christmas message. It was stamped, "GET BACK TO TORONTO."

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Medard · November 26, 2025

Greetings from the Czech Republic, just wanted to give some context for the Slovak part of the story as I have no idea how it is being reported in the US (if even). Robert Fico (pronounced Fi-tso) has been a fixture of Slovak politics since the 1990s. A bit of a Orbán-like character but with less power and, unlike Orbán's right-wing Fidész, Fico's party SMER (meaning Direction in Slovak) has always proclaimed to be a social democratic subject (while failing to promote much of actual social democratic policies but that's a European classic). When Fico's third administration resigned in March 2018, it was a culmination of a political crisis sparked by a contract murder of a journalist Ján Kuciak and his girlfriend in their household. Kuciak had been working on a story about activities of the Italian crime outfit 'Ndrangheta in Slovakia and its possible dealings with Fico's party. While the murderers were arrested and sentenced, the alleged contractor, a Slovak businessman with ties to both mafia and Fico (another classic) is still escaping justice (although he's serving 20 years for another crime but still pulling the strings from behind bars). The attempted assasination of Fico in May 2024 was also quite peculiar as the shooter was a 71-year-old unsuccessful poet and writer Juraj Cintula who considers himself a social democrat and a pacifist (while also promoting political violence). He was such a pacifist that he allegedly was hanging around some pro-Russian Slovak organisations just to tell them to stop using violence. He became rather anti-Russian and anti-Putin when the Russo-Ukrainian war began, which allegedly made him hate the rather pro-Russian and pro-Putin Fico. He had also some questionable views about Roma people in Slovakia, even wrote a book about them, but that's unfortunately quite normal in Slovakia (and all of Europe as well). He shot at Fico from point blank range which is why he was immediately caught and is now serving 20 years in prison. Although he hit him like three times, he missed any vital organs, and Fico got better shortly after the attack and is now working as if nothing ever happened. When it comes to Epstein's connection to Miroslav Lajčák, then Secretary of Foreign Affairs, now an adviser to Fico, Lajčák has never been talked about much in the local news before the Epstein stuff, but he has been working as a Slovak diplomat for a number of years, travelling the world and meeting all sorts of global figures, which is probably how he met Bannon and Epstein, but it's tough to say what their dealings may have actually been as Lajčák appears to be more known around the world than at home, having worked as a chair of both UN's General Assembly and OSCE. Some may find interesting that he is technically a Rusyn just like Robert Maxwell but that's about all I can find out about him in the Czech and Slovak sources. That about sums it up, take care, Michael

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Michael S. Judge · November 26, 2025

I don't know if Czechs hate Slovaks now, or vice versa, or if they're tight bros, or if nobody cares in either country, but on behalf of all musicians and listeners with discerning taste, I would like to issue an official DEATH/CORNER commendation and letter of gratitude to onetime Czechoslovaks and present-day Slovaks, specifically Jan Jurco and the town of Čadca, for maintaining and improving the production of vacuum tubes for musical purposes. This is in no way a joke. Since nearly every other industrial and mechanical sector stopped relying on vacuum tubes, especially when the Soviet Union collapsed and previously-embargoed devices like transistors started pouring into newly "post-Soviet" Eurasia, guitarists have had 3 real sources for tubes, though there's a lot of deceptive brand-name bullshit that makes the field seem much larger: • the Reflektor factory in Novosibirsk, Russia – which, I swear to god, was where Lee Harvey Oswald worked during his Russian vacation – which was bought by Electro-Harmonix founder and inveterate con man Mike Matthews, who changed its name to "New Sensor" to avoid genocidal American rage over anything "Russian," and who then made the evil but very smart move of buying the names and trademarks from the most presitigious tube manufacturers, who had no use for them; you'll see modern tubes branded Mullard, Tung Sol, Gold Lion, Genalex Electro-Harmonix, Sovtek (the exact same entity as Electro-Harmonix, just incorporated in Russia), and though their designs differ to some degree, they're all made in that one factory by that one company owned by that one guy • "China" in general, which used to mean the Shuguang factory and now means 2 separate facilities for Shuguang and PSVANE in Changsha, and Chinese tubes are also labeled as a dozen different "brands," but in this case it's the Western distributors making up brand names, and I don't think the Chinese producers have anything to do with the labeling – anything badged as Ruby, Groove Tubes, or Tube Amp Doctor is Chinese, and there are also tubes sold straight-up as Shuguang and PSVANE (that is a HORRIBLE-sounding piece of language), plus the occasional tube with no brand that just says "CHINA," • and then, arguably most importantly, there's JJ, which is essentially all the designs and machinery from Warsaw Pact-era Czechoslovakia, which a guitar player named Jan Jurco (hence "JJ") acquired for what I imagine was an *insanely* low price in the 1990s, because he realized that there would be a collapse in the guitar-amp world if all the Eastern Bloc tube manufacturers suddenly disappeared – the major Western brands were all defunct by then – AND that those Eastern-Bloc tubes were actually more rugged and better-designed than the legendary Western tubes like Mullard, Philips/Sylvania, Amperex, Siemens, etc., because embargoes forced the Soviet-aligned world to use vacuum tubes much longer than the West did, which meant they also got considerably better at building them, and while I will admit that Electro-Harmonix makes the best modern EL34 (rebuild of East German RFTs from the ’70s), and Shuguang makes by FAR the best modern 6L6 (rebuild of the old Philips/Sylvania STR415s), everything else is pretty much JJ down the line. The best 12AX7/ECC83 preamp tubes, no question, plus a couple cool variations; the best 6V6s by far, the smaller 6L6 cousin you'd find in a Princeton or Deluxe; the best EL84s by FAR by far by far, like all-timer shit. I've got an amp that's still mostly stocked with Soviet-era 6p14p Reflektors, their equivalent of an EL84, and the JJs are every bit their equal. And even when I prefer a particular tube to the JJ version(s), the JJs are ALWAYS eminently usable, always sound good, and often sound better-than-good. Their basic EL34 is wayyyy better than anything but the EHX, and they do some interesting variations like the E34L (much more aggressive tube, patterned after the Svetlana SED "Winged C") and EL34II (quite recently designed on spec for Marshall, designed around the Mullard XF4, very cool combination of EL34 and 6L6 traits). And whatever the audio equivalent of "sight unseen" is, I suppose "tone unheard," I trust the JJ 6L6 over anything that's not in the Philips/Sylvania STR 387 (made for Fender) to STR 415 (made for Mesa/Boogie) to STR 440 (made for Mesa/Boogie when Philips/Sylvania shut down and only Shuguang could copy the 415s right). I have realized, at several points during this exposition, that you may or may not play an instrument, and even if you're an electric guitarist, you may not give a shit about vacuum-tube history. But I really mean it when I thank the whole post-WW2 history of united or divided Czech and Slovak states, because if JJ didn't exist, it might not have been possible for tube amplifiers (include bass amps as well, and amps built into electric pianos and organs, and tube-based pedals, and tube-based studio rack gear) to persist beyond the end of the USSR. Meaning that all music would sound worse, and TONE is such a huge part of the songwriting and arranging imagination that music in general would also be worse written, worse recorded, worse mixed, worse mastered, and worse worse. (If you're a guitarist, and if you have an amp that runs on 6L6s, allow me to put you onto some game: Mesa/Boogie no longer sells the 6L6 GC STR 440s, those copies of the Philips 415s. There was a small fire at the Shuguang factory a few years ago, and then a mess of zoning and permit details, so Shuguang went dark for a couple years, and Mesa couldn't rely on their unsold stock. But those 440s are back in production now, billed as the Ruby 6L6GCM STR, exact same thing, and if you put those in an amp that's been running on Groove Tubes or Sovteks or whatever, you will not goddamn believe what you hear.)

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Maciek · November 26, 2025

Zelensky making fun of Robert Fico getting shot was one of those moments when I went huh, the mask off season is world wide it seems now. Similarly when the dum dum Polak politician just straight up admitted our besties doing nordstream 2 before taking it down on twitter.

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Lars · November 26, 2025

Mike, do you know the case of James Vance v Judas Priest? I was only a baby in 1988 when it happened & had never met James, but that's my cousin. His mom (my aunt) tried to sue Judas Priest because my cousin & his friend made a suicide pact after hearing subliminal messages on the "Stained Glass" album. They both shot each other in the head & died a a year + later (the friend died instantly). [Edit: had that detail wrong] My aunt was nuts & I would have protested the idea of suing if I wasn't 2 years old. My parents told me about it as I got into classic rock in my early teens. I had so many questions, but also, they lived in Nevada & I grew up in Eastern Kentucky (my moms fam originally from Northern California). If you've talked about this on a past episode, please let me know which one. But the opening themes of this ep reminded me of it so I wanted to ask ya about it. It'd be a great topic to hear your thoughts on or a history of such cases on Echo's Bones, actually. Anyways, cheers my dude. Hope you're doing well.

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Michael S. Judge · November 26, 2025

It is fucking crazy that you have a direct connection to that story. I know it very well – it was the stock "secret evils of secular culture" reference in a place like Missouri and a time like the early and mid-1990s. And I just saw your edit; I was gonna say, I thought one guy died immediately and the other nonfatally blew off the lower half of his face, which is pretty high on my list of the worst fucking things that could plausibly happen to the average person. I don't mean it as any kind of joke or ridicule when I say (to everybody, because I imagine you know perfectly well) ***do not shoot yourself by putting a gun in your mouth or under your chin*** – ideally, don't shoot yourself at all, but especially not like that. It is INSANE how often that leaves people alive and brutally disabled, and nobody ever talks about it, because, as Americans, we have a belief system constructed around the central tenet that it is much worse to SAY the worst possible thing than to DO it, and that if we never ever talk about something, it will vanish from the world of its own accord. If you start looking for that, the frequency with which *mentioning* something is punished far more severely than the thing itself, it will drive you insane. Every time somebody starts bloviating about "our Puritan heritage," you know it's going to concern the public display and utilization of buttcheeks, but – à propos for the season, and relative to something you'll soon see – the Puritans weren't just standard-issue smug Protestants, they were freaks, and the name itself testifies to their core ethos, namely that all ungodly things shall cease, and all manner of thing shall be well, if human beings just do not think or speak of the unholy. They also believe that the "covenant of works," i.e. salvation in return for divine obedience, is impossible after original sin, so that no human being can "earn" or "deserve" salvation, AND they believe in predestination of both the saved and the damned, beyond all human knowledge or alteration. Now you might think that if everyone is already saved or damned, and your own behavior can never merit salvation on its own, then you would do whatever the fuck you wanted to – and indeed this was briefly the case with the Antinomians, who reacted to the early popularity of Martin Luther with the fairly straightforward idea that if the Vatican has no real spiritual authority, and all goodness or salvation are a matter between Christ and the individual, then fuck everybody else's rules, you should just do what you think is good, right? And Luther himself stepped in to tell the Vatican, "Please kill these people. They're getting my shit wrong and making me look stupid," and indeed the temporal powers allied with the Roman curia did kill, lo! did they kill, the Antinomians. So if every human afterlife is predetermined, and there is no ecclesiastical institution or ritual observance capable of granting anyone a special dispensation against the Will of the LORD, but you ALSO can't just do whatever you want and are obligated to practice the most soul-crushing artless literal-minded Anglo-Saxon version of a faith which, frankly, never really hung together great in the first place – if your religion needs the entire "history" of Judaism as a preface, and you aren't Jewish, your religion is what would now be called "fanfic" – well, then, clearly, you need to orient your existence around the outward display of "purity" and utter contempt for the "impure," to the point of very casually murdering them, because then other people will look at you and think "Now THAT guy is going to Heaven." ... Except that thought is, in itself, sinful, since it assumes a prerogative of human reason in matters of salvation. And trying to LOOK "saved" is the most grievous sin of all, because it not only renders salvation a matter of individual egotism, and therefore DESIRE, which is by its very nature a form of blasphemy, it ALSO misleads humanity into belief that they too can assure their salvation by looking like they're going to Heaven, and he who would "look saved" is thus the Archdevil and Father of Lies, who battens on the artifice of his own self-satisfaction in the place of GOD's will, and who, ill-content to live alone in monstrous sin, damns and dooms humanity in toto with the heretical fiction that mankind may do say make think practice believe ANYTHING that indicates, let alone BIASES, the fate of any single soul, which is the LORD's alone. And yet here we are. Because Protestantism, and especially Calvinism, and *especially* the American varities of Calvinism, don't make any fucking sense, and by their own internal logic, they are impossible to obey, since you're not allowed to do anything bad, and you have to do good things, but also you don't know what's bad or good, except that the baddest of the bad is to think you know what "good" is. Thence the "moral" tenor of our state. Now sic THAT on some white people and see what they do with 400 years.

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AJ McKenna · November 26, 2025

Re: them all being the same guy, I was sketching Epstein while listening to this (I'm doing preparatory work towards a protest placard showing Epstein hanging out with Tomothy Robinson to wind up the local fash) and was struck by how it felt like, as I drew him, he kept trying to turn into Trump.

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Michael S. Judge · November 26, 2025

Pwer. Legal. Political. Financail. Value. Wealth.

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arden wezenberg · November 26, 2025

MSJ, how do you, personally, deal with this document release? Do you engage with it exhaustively or selectively, do you choose a certain heuristic or is there a cartography of the absolute for you? Especially seeing as it has no real-world consequences - even Marjoryie Taylor Greene resigned. And how do others here reconcile this cognitively without stroking out.

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Divad Kong · November 26, 2025

A sleuth over on true anon sub pointed out to me that this was sent 2 days after an email from Deepak chopra ail with an article from Psychology Today called "Lunch with Deepak I: LSD, Quantum Healing, and Plato". Imagine being 60 years old and thinking your shitty acid ramblings were something to be preserved lol. Especially starting out the radical breakthrough with " are beards for capturing smells"

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Jack · November 26, 2025

I have chestnut blight in my soul

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Combusken · November 26, 2025

That's so rad man

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Gooch Immane · November 26, 2025

RADIAL BREAKTHRU: Requiem For An Inbox is convulsing every synapse in my body rn

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abby · November 26, 2025

bilology 🤪

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Court Hansen · November 25, 2025

Phil Ochs’ song about Lenny Bruce is even sadder when you learn that he was also persecuted to death by the FBI.

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Michael S. Judge · November 26, 2025

The whole John Butler Train thing scares the hell out of me. Learning too much about how reality operates, in a time when you were barely allowed to SAY any of it, let alone find any receptive audience for it, and being so deranged by it that you start to believe you were somehow responsible, this is not an unfamiliar notion to me, nor does it appear to be especially new – there's a Walter Sickert painting called JACK THE RIPPER'S BEDROOM which, if you know it was painted by a man whose contact with the monstrous realities of East End poverty, and with elite immunity from consequences for unimaginable crimes, drove him to the obsessive delusion that he was either the Ripper's accomplice or the Ripper himself, is the most frightening thing ever painted

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Swimaroo · November 25, 2025

Ah, I think I'm going to get a light tunch today

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Michael S. Judge · November 26, 2025

me, Limp Legg, and Money Waters all live in the same apartment and we only fusk with a Tight Lounch

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Sydney Thomas · November 25, 2025

I have only ever listened to the Walker brothers and never Scott Walker’s solo work, I’m familiar with how eerie their work can get. But I was genuinely scared by Clara, stopped in my proverbial tracks (I’m on a nameless greyhound equivalent stuck in traffic) and was breathing heavily but otherwise very still. My mouth agape and drying. Trying desperately to not get caught off guard and failing. I’ve never been made to feel so afraid of a song. Pushing past my terror, how wonderful to experience something so new in adulthood! Thank you for putting me on :^)

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David · November 25, 2025

Hell man, speaking of history, human trafficking is roughly half of how the US got started (the other half being genocide of course). And it still just goes on. For a bit of levity, not that we deserve it, I really appreciated the Pound reference and the Finnegans Wake (and awful pastiche) talk. I've been reading the former lately, and honestly those emails sounded to me not unlike the worst possible pastiche of the Cantos combined with Jaden Smith tweets. Also, do you have any recs for a book on the "rape of post-Soviet Russia" as you put it? I've been meaning to learn more about that topic specifically. Thanks so much for this episode. If only it were unnecessary.

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AJ McKenna · November 26, 2025

Seconding this because I would really like a source for Yeltsin's happy recollections of his childhood recreations, specifically.

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Dan Z · November 25, 2025

I have no doubt Epstein would have lost his mind chatting with AI. He is a pre-fried rube. The perfect user

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trashgrabbinbandit · November 25, 2025

Hi Michael, wondering if you have read Simon Dovey's Eye of the Chickenhawk. Apologies if you have said so before.

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K · November 25, 2025

not sure if you were knowingly referencing this piece of trivia, because it's about ULYSSES and not the WAKE, but Joyce did actually imagine 'Penelope' as a way of depicting the posthuman world - he used that exact term in a letter to Harriet Weaver - and he clearly meant it in the sense of "after the human," without the all the term's contemporary baggage. it was important enough to him that he specified it as "posthuman" instead of "prehuman," which was Weaver's description.

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The former junkyard hoochie daddy · November 25, 2025

Man Party Records! My late father talked about those from waaaay back in the day. He used to love Redd Foxx and talked about finding old records like that. Even a lot of the music on the Chitlins Circuit was just an entirely different industry. I wish I had talked to him more about it while he was alive. Dude was in the first desegregated class of his county in Virginia and went to the school for coloreds with only 4 rooms for the first 8? years of schooling I believe.

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NYCM&AHole · November 25, 2025

Love the zakk wylde joke and also Lolol please do movie trailer voice overs “THIS SUMMER GET READY FOR THE SEQUEL…”

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NYCM&AHole · November 25, 2025

“Baby I need your tunch”

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Jaime Christley · November 25, 2025

MSJ have you been out to see One Battle After Another and if so, your thoughts?

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MRSAful Fate · November 25, 2025

I've been meaning to mention something to you: i stumbled on a sub reddit called r/numberstations. I'm going back over the David Lynch eps where you talk about radio and it reminded me of that sub. Check it out. It's kinda spooky. My old pickup has a radio ONLY and you can you totally pick up on all the weird static and shit.

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Michael S. Judge · November 25, 2025

I am WAY more aware of numbers stations that I should be. There's a free archive of numbers-station recordings called The Conet Project, and when I had my first psychotic breakdown, I listened to those recordings for 48 straight hours while playing Stan Brakhage's autopsy movie on repeat

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Renee Drezner · November 25, 2025

Prosody- stress and rhythm pattern in music and poetry

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Michael S. Judge · November 25, 2025

there is no chance that Jeffrey Epstein knew the word "prosody"

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MRSAful Fate · November 25, 2025

Flowers for Aljeffnon

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This is Pharmacist · November 25, 2025

Prosody?

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Valentina Vargas · November 25, 2025

That reciting of the jeevacation email had me cracking up hard jesus christ-thank you for doing that 20+ object list justice, straight Xavier Renegade Angel sounding ass email

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glenn mohre · November 25, 2025

Oh hell yeah I love that party record. https://youtu.be/-1Z_bYPT7F8?si=lfWCmKFR2q5f2nvw is my personal favorite , shuggie Otis under another name.

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idiot.wisdom · November 25, 2025

Anyone else start levitating at 26 minutes? Dangerous stuff, it's a good thing you had that disclaimer. Also I'm pretty sure you almost broke at "do we get plant diseases?" but I'm impressed you were able to stay in the bit for the whole reading,

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idiot.wisdom · November 25, 2025

Weirdly happy that I picked up on that but also holy shit, what a retarded world we live in, thank you for continuing to consume and transmute the horrors for our listening pleasure (?)